Susu1976 said:[quote]

Mumio said:

Susu1976 said:

Mumio said:

What I have read is that some EMTs will give people Narcan shots if they are not sure why they are non-responsive and the EMTs do not know what is going exactly going on. I mean if no one on the plane was sure of what he took or if he was having a seziure then I could see the EMTs giving him the shot.

We also have nothing documented other then TMZ saying he needed two shots or that he was even given Narcan. All of the actual procedures were blacked out on the ambulance bill.

I do not think Prince purposely tried to kill himself on that plane. I think that would be really mean dramatic, and attention seeking. He was not attention seeking when it came to private matters. He was on his way back home with Judith so he might have had other plans.

[Edited 12/12/17 12:24pm]

The bolded is correct. Narcan won't hurt you even if you are not unconscious due to drug overdose, it's a valid safety measure in cases of "what if".

[/quote [Edited 12/12/17 13:24pm]

Do you know if the Narcan would have caused any health issues for him? A lot of talk that he should not have left the hospital so soon. He actually stayed until almost noon the next day. So if he got there sometime around 1:00 or 2:00 am ( I cannot remember the exact time) and left around Noon the next day he might have spent 10 or 11 hours in the hospital was that long enough.

I mean he was riding a bike, throwing a party and going out to a nightclub and he was suppose to be deathly ill.

fortuneandserendipity said:

cloveringold85 said:

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It is my opinion Tyka is being disrespectful in regards to her late brother, because she is stirring-up the bee's nest by making all these odd statements, and not giving people any explanations about anything. It does not paint her in a good light, imo.

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Absolutely. While on the subject of bees' nests Tyka is giving off a creepy vulture vibe, with her well-timed PR offensive - there have been, unoffically, two so far...

(1 was a month ago, to promote the O2 exhibit', and the other about a year before that) Er, she's the only person regularly talking about P, of anyone close/ish to him.

Where the book's concerned, I reckon she'll have nothing to add about recent illness issues in his life. No doubt there'll be a few interesting anecdotes about P's childhood, early adulthood, maybe even last few years. I would also not take 'tyka working with him' as kosher. The idea that she traveled with him everywhere for the last few years doesn't fly. Unless she frequently flew, which she didn't. Noone would have guessed a thing.

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And like I've said before, If Tyka had misspoke about the 2-year/3-year she knew (whatever); just show common courtesy to Prince's fans and set the record straight. Is that too much to ask of her? A lot of what she is saying just does not add up and I know she does not owe the fans any explanations, so then why even bother to say anything at all, right? Why stir-up the bee's nest all over again?

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Chazz's comments paint a totally different picture, and he seems to have been pushed aside by the family.

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From what I read, Tyka was handling NPG Publishing from 2013, onward, until Prince's sudden passing. But aside from that, I don't think she was very heavily-involved in his business dealings.

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I wonder, what was Tyka doing when Prince O/D in Moline? Why did George Lopez pay for Prince's $1,700 cremation, when Tyka said she was planning his funeral and buying jewelry? Again, her comments and behavior seem off.

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Regarding her book; you are right. I don't think she will reveal too much other than her childhood with Prince and her battle with drug addiction and how her brother helped her.

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[Edited 12/12/17 14:50pm]

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Doubling back...



I have been focusing on the (100) "Watson 853" pills taken into custody from Paisley park. This is the only known opiate mentioned in the warrant that was found @ Paisley Park .

I checked on the drug label information to do some basic calculations in order to find out what amount of this drug by itself would reproduce the effect of an overdose that occurred in Atlanta.

I used a dosing recommendation ( for adults) of approximately (1) 10 milligram tablet of Hydrocodone Bitartrate every 4-6 hours. To produce the similar action of an overdose, Prince would have had to ingest no less than 8-9 times the amount of Hydrocodone within a very short period of time (as in right after the show). I am calculating the time that show ended in conjunction with the time of the call per the flight details.

That type of dosing can only be translated as in:

1. Someone who is in extreme pain.

2. Someone who has a developed very high tolerance and is clearly used to very high doses of Hydrocodone.

3. Someone who took something else that would produce a similar effect to that of 90-100 milligrams of Hydrocone in your system in less than 4-6- hours.

In regards to the (3) three above-mentioned points:

1. If he were in extreme pain, Judith, Kirk, or the unnamed doctor in Moline would have mentioned that as the impetus for the overdose. The incessant rumor mill (about an overdose) would have taken a back seat to the "Prince was in extreme pain" narrative. Further, if he was in extreme pain , it would have been glaringly obvious way before he boarded the plane. Someone would have seen that back at the venue.

2. They were (100) pills of Hydrocodone found at Paisley Park. There is reason to believe that Prince was buying in bulk and did not consume his first pill(s) at the show in Atlanta nor a week before. That being said, there is a high probability that there was long term mental dependence ( addiction) .

3. There is little to no evidence to support that "Watson 853" is known for producing overdoses whether the pill format is prescribed or illicit. There is also no incentive for dealers/pill mills to produce large quantities of said pill when there is no market for it. There is scant evidence to support that watson 853 is used in toxic combination with other illicit opiates. Further, the evidence does not support that a toxic combination pill has been reproduced for large scale distribution.

* There are many reports of long term "Watson 853" users who are able to identify a legitimate "853" pill by various means: Prince would have been familiar with these if buying in bulk.

1. Color (changed in 2013 to white)

2. Texture

3. Taste

4. Effectiveness

There were only two other pills that were largely manufactured and distributed (2015-16) and were a toxic combination mix of high levels of fentanyl and hydrocodone. Those are the "roxy's" and "A215's". None of these were found @ Paisley Park.

There is a high degree of certainty that Prince did not overdose from a watson 853 pill(s), roxys, or a215's.

Conclusion: A separate agent(s) of the fentanyl analogue that was not found.

Idk if anyone's brought this up, only 2/3 thtiugh this thread, but one thing to consider is overdosing on acetaminophen, About 25+ of the 853s. And if someone had any liver issues, it would be less. Just wanted to add as information in case it isn't mentioned. Peace & Be Wild

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The Fentanyl pills were mislabeled as Hydrocodone, thus the accidental overdose.

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Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen Pill:

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Illegal Fentanyl:

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laurarichardson said:

Susu1976 said:

Mumio said:

The bolded is correct. Narcan won't hurt you even if you are not unconscious due to drug overdose, it's a valid safety measure in cases of "what if".

[/quote [Edited 12/12/17 13:24pm]

Do you know if the Narcan would have caused any health issues for him? A lot of talk that he should not have left the hospital so soon. He actually stayed until almost noon the next day. So if he got there sometime around 1:00 or 2:00 am ( I cannot remember the exact time) and left around Noon the next day he might have spent 10 or 11 hours in the hospital was that long enough.

I mean he was riding a bike, throwing a party and going out to a nightclub and he was suppose to be deathly ill.

Unless you are allergic to Narcan, it's very rare for issues to crop up but you must keep in mind that pretty much everything from the Moline incident is unsubstantiated information. We know the plane landed there and the plane left there. Unless someone is sitting around with an actual picture of him getting on the plane or sitting in the plane, we don't even really know if he was on it and many people do not believe Judith's story. The hospital did not confirm anything about him being there. There's a great deal of information floating around with nothing but hearsay as backup.

Narcan side-effects:

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https://www.rxlist.com/na...center.htm

laurarichardson said:

It's definitely possible he had a seizure. He spoke about having epilepsy & it being cured. There's too much we don't know.
You're right about the official statement (police report/warrant info) being that took one or two pills.
If we could see the medical report (never happen) about this incident, we'd know a lot more.

Peace & Be Wild

1Sasha said:

I agree that he had wheels in motion and knew it was coming sooner rather than later, & possibly saw his last tour as such.
I don't think he would OD in front of someone unless the person was aware - imho it would be more like a Kevorkian (sp) scenario.
I think it's possible he planned to OD the last time. It's possible it was a mistake & he took too much/didn't realize what he was taking.
I think there's enough information to formulate hypotheses, but not theories.

morningsong said:

I'd never considered this but it's possible. It would change the narrative about when he actually ODd: if a mistake was made with Moline & took the wrong meds, it seems more unlikely that his OD would be accidental.

morningsong said:

Percocet is another name for oxycodone. It's in the warrants, I believe, under oxycodone.

Chazz Smith said he did not believe the pills were mislabeled. I found this video, and there is a comment made by Chazz, but not sure if that is really him, but you can read what he said about wanting to get Prince help. He said that P's family basically pushed him out and don't tell him anything.

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Chazz Smith said:

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morningsong said:

According to 2 EMTs I know, the answer is,no, that would not be a normal reaction - Narcan is specifically for opiate overdose and it would be unlikely that it would affect a seizure in that way - two different receptors in the brain.
I could see him nodding out/off if he took something with fentanyl in it because fentanyl is s whole lot stronger & works differently than other opiates. Whether that happened is anyone's guess.

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

Yeah, but then that's just making up things to fit a desired story. That doesn't answer if it is normal to come to from a Narcan shot if you are actually having a seizure and not an opiate overdose episode. Something Dr. Drew never answered directly.

[Edited 12/12/17 12:02pm]

According to 2 EMTs I know, the answer is,no, that would not be a normal reaction - Narcan is specifically for opiate overdose and it would be unlikely that it would affect a seizure in that way - two different receptors in the brain. I could see him nodding out/off if he took something with fentanyl in it because fentanyl is s whole lot stronger & works differently than other opiates. Whether that happened is anyone's guess.

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Narcan can cause severe allergic reactions in some people:

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https://www.rxlist.com/na...center.htm

cloveringold85 said:

Yes, thanks. I do understand the OD was a result of fentanyl not acetaminophen.
I posted to add more information, though it's somewhat irrelevant without additional information from the autopsy report.

morningsong said:

purplefam99 said:

morningsong said: Maybe the seizure has come to an end?? Beats me.

Yeah, but then that's just making up things to fit a desired story. That doesn't answer if it is normal to come to from a Narcan shot if you are actually having a seizure and not an opiate overdose episode. Something Dr. Drew never answered directly.

[Edited 12/12/17 12:02pm]

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When Dr. Drew made that statement that he thought it sounded like a seizure, that was before it was confirmed that he overdosed on illegal Fentanyl.

cloveringold85 said:

They didn't say that Narcan doesn't have side effects, they said it was highly unlikely if a person had an epileptic seizure, that Narcan would revive them.
All drugs have side effects and a person can be allergic to any number of them & react in vastly varied ways.
It's a possibility, too, but there's no way to verify it, unfortunately.

cloveringold85 said:

So perhaps he took the “extreme pain dose” 8/9 pills of hydrocodone that Menes mentions but because it was actually illegal fentanyl, explains the extremely high amount found
In his gastric system. I think this is likely.

I think it was fentanyl both times. He wasnt aware that he had something stronger
Took too much after Atlanta so plane incident happened.
I think perhaps it didn’t even dawn on him that he had drugs
That were anything than he was used to getting. And took too much again
Never realizing he was measuring out a drug he wasn’t used to taking.

cloveringold85 said:

Chazz Smith said he did not believe the pills were mislabeled. I found this video, and there is a comment made by Chazz, but not sure if that is really him, but you can read what he said about wanting to get Prince help. He said that P's family basically pushed him out and don't tell him anything.

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Chazz Smith said:

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2 months ago

I'm aware of the print publication that misquoted me or it was a fan who scrambled up the intent. If you go back to the KARE-11 interview the evening before the memorial service I sat down with journalist Adrienne Broaddus in Minneapolis. Ms. Broaddus said Smith and his family reached out, in many ways, "in every kind of way you can think of." I was not referring to anything but reaching my cuzin! Like many others who died under suspicious circumstances, or an "accidental overdose" the inner circle around my cuz had no intent of allowing me to be with him. And this IS on the record.

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https://www.youtube.com/w...ayNCnR6DjA

Okay, beyond the fact that the family isn't letting him in on all the information, I'm not sure what this means.

Chazz seems like an okay person I enjoy hearing him talk, especially about what the "scene" is like in Minnie, but truth, most of us never heard of him beyond his early involvement in GC and after Prince's death, so with that in mind, we don't know him well enough to know if there is a reason he's being kept at a distance, so I don't know what we're supposed to do with that kind of information.

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said:

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Narcan can cause severe allergic reactions in some people:

.

https://www.rxlist.com/na...center.htm

They didn't say that Narcan doesn't have side effects, they said it was highly unlikely if a person had an epileptic seizure, that Narcan would revive them. All drugs have side effects and a person can be allergic to any number of them & react in vastly varied ways. It's a possibility, too, but there's no way to verify it, unfortunately.

Thank you, that's what I was curious about.

cloveringold85 said:

morningsong said:

Yeah, but then that's just making up things to fit a desired story. That doesn't answer if it is normal to come to from a Narcan shot if you are actually having a seizure and not an opiate overdose episode. Something Dr. Drew never answered directly.

[Edited 12/12/17 12:02pm]

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When Dr. Drew made that statement that he thought it sounded like a seizure, that was before it was confirmed that he overdosed on illegal Fentanyl.

Yep, he was just speculating like the rest of us, with probably even less information. He could still be right, but the likelihood is getting slimmer.

purplefam99 said:

cloveringold85 said:

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The Fentanyl pills were mislabeled as Hydrocodone, thus the accidental overdose.

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Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen Pill:

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Illegal Fentanyl:

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So perhaps he took the “extreme pain dose” 8/9 pills of hydrocodone that Menes mentions but because it was actually illegal fentanyl, explains the extremely high amount found In his gastric system. I think this is likely.

There is still reason to believe that he didn't need to take an extreme dose to end up taking a lethal dose of fentanyl. There are still reports, though not fully backed up, that the pills were tested and many of them had dosages of fentanyl in one pill that would kill any adult.

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

That too. My only question is, Percocet wasn't one of the meds they found according to the search warrant. Of course they could have been thrown away at some point.

Percocet is another name for oxycodone. It's in the warrants, I believe, under oxycodone.

Okay, thank you.

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said:

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Narcan can cause severe allergic reactions in some people:

.

https://www.rxlist.com/na...center.htm

They didn't say that Narcan doesn't have side effects, they said it was highly unlikely if a person had an epileptic seizure, that Narcan would revive them. All drugs have side effects and a person can be allergic to any number of them & react in vastly varied ways. It's a possibility, too, but there's no way to verify it, unfortunately.

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Yes, true. I also wonder if maybe the Narcan shot caused him to want more pain pills because I think Narcan makes your system more tolerant of opiates? Correct me if I'm wrong....but I think I read something like that.

purplefam99 said:

I think it was fentanyl both times. He wasnt aware that he had something stronger Took too much after Atlanta so plane incident happened. I think perhaps it didn’t even dawn on him that he had drugs That were anything than he was used to getting. And took too much again Never realizing he was measuring out a drug he wasn’t used to taking.

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Yes, that could be the case. They said that it only takes 2 or 3 grains of Fentanyl to be fatal, and Prince had way more than that in his system.

morningsong said:

cloveringold85 said:

Chazz Smith said he did not believe the pills were mislabeled. I found this video, and there is a comment made by Chazz, but not sure if that is really him, but you can read what he said about wanting to get Prince help. He said that P's family basically pushed him out and don't tell him anything.

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Chazz Smith said:

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2 months ago

I'm aware of the print publication that misquoted me or it was a fan who scrambled up the intent. If you go back to the KARE-11 interview the evening before the memorial service I sat down with journalist Adrienne Broaddus in Minneapolis. Ms. Broaddus said Smith and his family reached out, in many ways, "in every kind of way you can think of." I was not referring to anything but reaching my cuzin! Like many others who died under suspicious circumstances, or an "accidental overdose" the inner circle around my cuz had no intent of allowing me to be with him. And this IS on the record.

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https://www.youtube.com/w...ayNCnR6DjA

Okay, beyond the fact that the family isn't letting him in on all the information, I'm not sure what this means.

Chazz seems like an okay person I enjoy hearing him talk, especially about what the "scene" is like in Minnie, but truth, most of us never heard of him beyond his early involvement in GC and after Prince's death, so with that in mind, we don't know him well enough to know if there is a reason he's being kept at a distance, so I don't know what we're supposed to do with that kind of information.

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Yes, a lot of us say the same thing.

cloveringold85 said:

Narcan basically puts the body into immediate withdrawal by blocking opiod receptors from 30 minutes to several hours.
The person would most likely have sone physical pain after the Narcan because withdrawal from any opiate causes physical pain, irregardless if the person has legitimate physical pain. This could cause an increase in desire for more opiates.
There are also issues of physical, emotional, & mental dependency. Any/all of which can also increase the desire for more.
Frankly, I don't know anyone that wants to be in physical, mental, or emotional pain, especially not the sort that goes along with withdrawal from opiates. There's a somewhat sick (imho) desire to see people with dependency/addiction suffer. But I'm getting off topic, sorry. 💜
Narcan doesn't make your system more tolerant per se, as it wipes the opiates out (not completely, of course, but to a large degree).
That's why people say the most dangerous time for someone who uses/abuses opiates is after withdrawal - they often will take their normal dose (sometimes more just to get out of the neverending pain) - and accidentally OD.
Hope that helps!

purplefam99 said:

It's possible he did but I find it highly unlikely that the second time would have been without any forethought. That doesn't necessarily mean sucide, just that there was knowledge beforehand, he would have been aware of *something*,
If it took 1-2 Narcan shots to revive me I think I'd have some sort of clue something's up. I find it next to impossible he didn't.

morningsong said:

💜

Delete.
[Edited 12/12/17 23:16pm]