Menes said:

morningsong said:

Yeah. Am I taking a survey now?

No. Were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar( notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

BINGO!!! We have a winner here!!!!!

Menes said:

morningsong said:

Yeah. Am I taking a survey now?

No. Were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar( notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

So now we are talking about what Keith Richard does on stage compared to what Prince did on stage? I mean think about it. Secondly, where is this coming from, these weren't any of my recent questions. Are you making a point that Keith Richard's is surrounded by enablers?

Menes said:

—Keith looked and still looks like he is on something. He also had a whole band propping him up until they could not prop him up no more. Who was Prince proping Prince up for almost 40 years?

morningsong said:

Menes said:

No. Were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar( notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

So now we are talking about what Keith Richard does on stage compared to what Prince did on stage? I mean think about it. Secondly, where is this coming from, these weren't any of my recent questions. Are you making a point that Keith Richard's is surrounded by enablers?

I think the point is that people who are habituated to drugs have all manner of coping mechanisms to hide the effects of those drugs from others; mechanisms which may not be readily apparent to those who are NOT addicted or who have no personal knowledge of how addicts behave/cope/deflect inquiries into their condition.

I will go further and add that entertainers, people who make their living adopting other personas, people who are accustomed to and comfortable with artifice, who are insulated from the blow-back of addiction by money, fame, their hangers-on, fans, etc. have the ULTIMATE, inside-track at pulling the deception off...they're actors, manipulators of emotion, controllers of their image. Sound familiar?

morningsong said:

Menes said:

No. Were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar( notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

So now we are talking about what Keith Richard does on stage compared to what Prince did on stage? I mean think about it. Secondly, where is this coming from, these weren't any of my recent questions. Are you making a point that Keith Richard's is surrounded by enablers?

Quite the contrary. The question was , were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar(notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

I am assuming that you know how long Keith has been shooting up and how long he has been touring and playing before millions of fans?


There are other examples but we will stick to heroin users. For now.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

No, the amount of money you have does not alter the effects of drugs on your cognitive abilities. Drugs do not give me super powers to defeat the effects of the drugs and hiding the use of drugs is useless people always know. I do not think Prince was abusing these drugs for 38 years, 30 years or 20 years. I would bet money his problems started after his 2010 surgery and came initially from an Rx. I think he was fine taking whatever his dosage was until something went wrong. Could be health issues from taking the pills in the first place or illness but something happen in that 2013 to 2014 in that time period.
Something that made him know his time was short and I think we are going to find out more when Tyka writes her book or when someone really needs money.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

morningsong said:

So now we are talking about what Keith Richard does on stage compared to what Prince did on stage? I mean think about it. Secondly, where is this coming from, these weren't any of my recent questions. Are you making a point that Keith Richard's is surrounded by enablers?

I think the point is that people who are habituated to drugs have all manner of coping mechanisms to hide the effects of those drugs from others; mechanisms which may not be readily apparent to those who are NOT addicted or who have no personal knowledge of how addicts behave/cope/deflect inquiries into their condition.

I will go further and add that entertainers, people who make their living adopting other personas, people who are accustomed to and comfortable with artifice, who are insulated from the blow-back of addiction by money, fame, their hangers-on, fans, etc. have the ULTIMATE, inside-track at pulling the deception off...they're actors, manipulators of emotion, controllers of their image. Sound familiar?

I remember getting into the grunge scene in the 90's. I saw a lot of Nirvana concerts. The scene was always chaotic at concerts and full of energy. Kurt was a true headbanger. Smashing guitars, stage diving, it was non-stop high energy. Unless you lived in the underbelly of the Seattle grunge scene, you would never put "long term heroin addict and high energy shows in the same sentence. It wasn't until 1992 when child services got involved that the story began to unravel. Prior to that he was using, after the child services incident, he continued using, before and after shows, he was using. You would never know it when he performed.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think the point is that people who are habituated to drugs have all manner of coping mechanisms to hide the effects of those drugs from others; mechanisms which may not be readily apparent to those who are NOT addicted or who have no personal knowledge of how addicts behave/cope/deflect inquiries into their condition.

I will go further and add that entertainers, people who make their living adopting other personas, people who are accustomed to and comfortable with artifice, who are insulated from the blow-back of addiction by money, fame, their hangers-on, fans, etc. have the ULTIMATE, inside-track at pulling the deception off...they're actors, manipulators of emotion, controllers of their image. Sound familiar?

I remember getting into the grunge scene in the 90's. I saw a lot of Nirvana concerts. The scene was always chaotic at concerts and full of energy. Kurt was a true headbanger. Smashing guitars, stage diving, it was non-stop high energy. Unless you lived in the underbelly of the Seattle grunge scene, you would never put "long term heroin addict and high energy shows in the same sentence. It wasn't until 1992 when child services got involved that the story began to unravel. Prior to that he was using, after the child services incident, he continued using, before and after shows, he was using. You would never know it when he performed.

People forget that the addict is only sick when they are cutting back or trying to stop using. That's why that's the most likely time the addict will die of an overdose...when you're getting what you need every day to be good...you're fine...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

morningsong said:

So now we are talking about what Keith Richard does on stage compared to what Prince did on stage? I mean think about it. Secondly, where is this coming from, these weren't any of my recent questions. Are you making a point that Keith Richard's is surrounded by enablers?

I think the point is that people who are habituated to drugs have all manner of coping mechanisms to hide the effects of those drugs from others; mechanisms which may not be readily apparent to those who are NOT addicted or who have no personal knowledge of how addicts behave/cope/deflect inquiries into their condition.

I will go further and add that entertainers, people who make their living adopting other personas, people who are accustomed to and comfortable with artifice, who are insulated from the blow-back of addiction by money, fame, their hangers-on, fans, etc. have the ULTIMATE, inside-track at pulling the deception off...they're actors, manipulators of emotion, controllers of their image. Sound familiar?

Ok, but I'd say Keith Richards was a bad example because I've never got the impression he was hiding anything, he was just being and it was widely accepted and not a single person was shocked when it became public.

Menes said:

morningsong said:

So now we are talking about what Keith Richard does on stage compared to what Prince did on stage? I mean think about it. Secondly, where is this coming from, these weren't any of my recent questions. Are you making a point that Keith Richard's is surrounded by enablers?

Quite the contrary. The question was , were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar(notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

I am assuming that you know how long Keith has been shooting up and how long he has been touring and playing before millions of fans?


There are other examples but we will stick to heroin users. For now.

I had already assumed Keith was a user long before I ever went to see a single show, long before I heard a single note. Not a good example of someone hiding their issues.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

I remember getting into the grunge scene in the 90's. I saw a lot of Nirvana concerts. The scene was always chaotic at concerts and full of energy. Kurt was a true headbanger. Smashing guitars, stage diving, it was non-stop high energy. Unless you lived in the underbelly of the Seattle grunge scene, you would never put "long term heroin addict and high energy shows in the same sentence. It wasn't until 1992 when child services got involved that the story began to unravel. Prior to that he was using, after the child services incident, he continued using, before and after shows, he was using. You would never know it when he performed.

People forget that the addict is only sick when they are cutting back or trying to stop using. That's why that's the most likely time the addict will die of an overdose...when you're getting what you need every day to be good...you're fine...

That is not what the professional literature says.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

Quite the contrary. The question was , were you able to tell by the way Keith Richards played the guitar(notes, chords, runs, riffs) that he was a long time user of heroin?

I am assuming that you know how long Keith has been shooting up and how long he has been touring and playing before millions of fans?


There are other examples but we will stick to heroin users. For now.

I had already assumed Keith was a user long before I ever went to see a single show, long before I heard a single note. Not a good example of someone hiding their issues.

The question remains, were you able to tell he was using heroin based upon the way he played the guitar at a show?

Menes said:

morningsong said:

I had already assumed Keith was a user long before I ever went to see a single show, long before I heard a single note. Not a good example of someone hiding their issues.

The question remains, were you able to tell he was using heroin based upon the way he played the guitar at a show?

Compared to what?


Look either you are sticking with facts or you're not,period. So, if you are trying to slyly imply that nobody would be able to know that Prince was a drug user his entire life and that he hid it from everyone his entire life then that's just you speculating and trying to turn a personal thought into fact. I've been a fan since day one, so yep I do think I'd be able to tell the difference in deterioration over 4 decades. Keith has deteriated in his many decades.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I think the point is that people who are habituated to drugs have all manner of coping mechanisms to hide the effects of those drugs from others; mechanisms which may not be readily apparent to those who are NOT addicted or who have no personal knowledge of how addicts behave/cope/deflect inquiries into their condition.

I will go further and add that entertainers, people who make their living adopting other personas, people who are accustomed to and comfortable with artifice, who are insulated from the blow-back of addiction by money, fame, their hangers-on, fans, etc. have the ULTIMATE, inside-track at pulling the deception off...they're actors, manipulators of emotion, controllers of their image. Sound familiar?

I remember getting into the grunge scene in the 90's. I saw a lot of Nirvana concerts. The scene was always chaotic at concerts and full of energy. Kurt was a true headbanger. Smashing guitars, stage diving, it was non-stop high energy. Unless you lived in the underbelly of the Seattle grunge scene, you would never put "long term heroin addict and high energy shows in the same sentence. It wasn't until 1992 when child services got involved that the story began to unravel. Prior to that he was using, after the child services incident, he continued using, before and after shows, he was using. You would never know it when he performed.

Then you must have been blind that dude always looked spaced out his still photos are the worst.

Drugs do not give me super powers to defeat the effects of the drugs and hiding the use of drugs is useless people always know.

I do not think Prince was abusing these drugs for 38 years, 30 years or 20 years. I would bet money his problems started after his 2010 surgery and came initially from an Rx.

I think he was fine taking whatever his dosage was until something went wrong. Could be health issues from taking the pills in the first place or illness but something happen in that 2013 to 2014 in that time period.
Something that made him know his time was short and I think we are going to find out more when Tyka writes her book or when someone really needs money.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

The question remains, were you able to tell he was using heroin based upon the way he played the guitar at a show?

Compared to what?


Look either you are sticking with facts or you're not,period. So, if you are trying to slyly imply that nobody would be able to know that Prince was a drug user his entire life and that he hid it from everyone his entire life then that's just you speculating and trying to turn a personal thought into fact. I've been a fan since day one, so yep I do think I'd be able to tell the difference in deterioration over 4 decades. Keith has deteriated in his many decades.

It is not speculating it is living in a fantasy world.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

The question remains, were you able to tell he was using heroin based upon the way he played the guitar at a show?

Compared to what?


Look either you are sticking with facts or you're not,period. So, if you are trying to slyly imply that nobody would be able to know that Prince was a drug user his entire life and that he hid it from everyone his entire life then that's just you speculating and trying to turn a personal thought into fact. I've been a fan since day one, so yep I do think I'd be able to tell the difference in deterioration over 4 decades. Keith has deteriated in his many decades.

Well , I hope I didn't upset you with the question of whether you were able to tell he was a heroin user by the way he (Keith) played the guitar at a concert. I will stick to Prince.

In the warrant it was stated that witnesses at the scene of his death told the investigators that Prince was previously going thru withdrawals from opioid use. Do you think that any of his fans at his last show were aware that he was going thru withdrawals for opioid use when they saw him perform? If so, what would he have done at this performance that would've alerted them?

Lastly, do you think did that any signs of withdrawals started after the plane incident or before?

Menes said:

morningsong said:

Compared to what?


Look either you are sticking with facts or you're not,period. So, if you are trying to slyly imply that nobody would be able to know that Prince was a drug user his entire life and that he hid it from everyone his entire life then that's just you speculating and trying to turn a personal thought into fact. I've been a fan since day one, so yep I do think I'd be able to tell the difference in deterioration over 4 decades. Keith has deteriated in his many decades.

Well , I hope I didn't upset you with the question of whether you were able to tell he was a heroin user by the way he (Keith) played the guitar at a concert. I will stick to Prince.

In the warrant it was stated that witnesses at the scene of his death told the investigators that Prince was previously going thru withdrawals from opioid use. Do you think that any of his fans at his last show were aware that he was going thru withdrawals for opioid use when they saw him perform? If so, what would he have done at this performance that would've alerted them?

Lastly, do you think did that any signs of withdrawals started after the plane incident or before?

Nope you are far from upsetting me. I feel you are trying to make me come to a conclusion based on one concert, and that I do not understand how. You have no idea if I wanted to be there, how much of the Stones music I'm familiar with, nothing, hell not even if I was stoned off my azz while I was there, I mean nothing beyond I was there. I wasn't stoned but you don't know that. Heck I could have spent the time flirting with the concessions guy. You want a conclusion based on very little information.

The warrant didn't specify for how long or when it started or any of that type of information. A few of them specifically used the word "recently", can you tell me an exact date just by that word? I know I can't, I'm not even sure what "recently" means, a month, six months, a year?

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said:

Compared to what?


Look either you are sticking with facts or you're not,period. So, if you are trying to slyly imply that nobody would be able to know that Prince was a drug user his entire life and that he hid it from everyone his entire life then that's just you speculating and trying to turn a personal thought into fact. I've been a fan since day one, so yep I do think I'd be able to tell the difference in deterioration over 4 decades. Keith has deteriated in his many decades.

It is not speculating it is living in a fantasy world.

Co Sign

Bodhitheblackdog seems to know a LOT about the Profile of a longterm drug user,

but conveniently overlooks the KNOWN facts about Princes CLEAN LIVING Habits.

Everyone who ever KNEW Prince, in person has stated again and again

over and over

how

"Careful he was about what he put into his body"

WHen he was sick his go to was echinacea, golden seal Vitamin C etc

THESE are FACTS, reiterated many times.

If he took anything other than naturals

he was definately very conscious about what he took,

and would have been cautious and without a doubt

was in such pain that he was desperate for RELIEF

He was not a person who took drugs for shits and giggles or to

altar his frame of mind in order to escape from reality.

To continuously come here and imply that Prince gobbled pills like lollies

is ingnorant, comparing him to WHitney or Keith is ridiculous and

seems to me like a person pushing their own agenda.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

Well , I hope I didn't upset you with the question of whether you were able to tell he was a heroin user by the way he (Keith) played the guitar at a concert. I will stick to Prince.

In the warrant it was stated that witnesses at the scene of his death told the investigators that Prince was previously going thru withdrawals from opioid use. Do you think that any of his fans at his last show were aware that he was going thru withdrawals for opioid use when they saw him perform? If so, what would he have done at this performance that would've alerted them?

Lastly, do you think did that any signs of withdrawals started after the plane incident or before?

Nope you are far from upsetting me. I feel you are trying to make me come to a conclusion based on one concert, and that I do not understand how. You have no idea if I wanted to be there, how much of the Stones music I'm familiar with, nothing, hell not even if I was stoned off my azz while I was there, I mean nothing beyond I was there. I wasn't stoned but you don't know that. Heck I could have spent the time flirting with the concessions guy. You want a conclusion based on very little information.

The warrant didn't specify for how long or when it started or any of that type of information. A few of them specifically used the word "recently", can you tell me an exact date just by that word? I know I can't, I'm not even sure what "recently" means, a month, six months, a year?

Do you think that was the first time Prince used opioids when he got on the plane?

laurarichardson said:

Dr. S didn't prescribe Watson 385s, that is hydrocodone; he prescribed Percocet aka oxycodone. Different meds.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

Well , I hope I didn't upset you with the question of whether you were able to tell he was a heroin user by the way he (Keith) played the guitar at a concert. I will stick to Prince.

In the warrant it was stated that witnesses at the scene of his death told the investigators that Prince was previously going thru withdrawals from opioid use. Do you think that any of his fans at his last show were aware that he was going thru withdrawals for opioid use when they saw him perform? If so, what would he have done at this performance that would've alerted them?

Lastly, do you think did that any signs of withdrawals started after the plane incident or before?

Nope you are far from upsetting me. I feel you are trying to make me come to a conclusion based on one concert, and that I do not understand how. You have no idea if I wanted to be there, how much of the Stones music I'm familiar with, nothing, hell not even if I was stoned off my azz while I was there, I mean nothing beyond I was there. I wasn't stoned but you don't know that. Heck I could have spent the time flirting with the concessions guy. You want a conclusion based on very little information.

The warrant didn't specify for how long or when it started or any of that type of information. A few of them specifically used the word "recently", can you tell me an exact date just by that word? I know I can't, I'm not even sure what "recently" means, a month, six months, a year?

One thing we know is that "recently" is not 20 or 30 years.

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

But he was not known for being a trusting person. It is a matter of not knowing who you are dealing with and it sounds like he could be really paranoid at times. I just do not see someone with those traits being anything from an unknown person.

We know that Kirk knew what was going on and Prince trusted him. We know his sister knows a few things because Prince trusted her.

These pills can be made right in the good old USA and Prince had enough money to have this done.

If you keep thinking that he did things just like everyone else you are going down the wrong road.

Everything this dude had right down to his shoes was custom made. Why would he not have his drugs custom made. In additon, their is no data that supports fentenyl being placed in the Watson 385s This drug was discontinued in 2015 and I have found nothing stating that these pills are being mixed Fentenyl in the streets.

Makes me question how Dr. S was able to write a script for Kirk for this stuff. Futher investigation needs to be done into to that but we do not know if it was done or what the results were concerning the pain pill Dr. S wrote for Kirk. Were they even legit or could that have been tampered with?

[Edited 11/9/17 9:21am]

Dr. S didn't prescribe Watson 385s, that is hydrocodone; he prescribed Percocet aka oxycodone. Different meds.

But the Fentenyl was in the hydrocodone stamped pillsl

[Edited 11/15/17 17:10pm]

muleFunk said:

The Watson 385s were very popular for a long time. It's possible he preferred them over other opiates/meds to treat his pain. Or not.

morningsong said:

I agree I have been a fan since 1978 and I think I would have noticed as well if
He was long term user. I’m not going to give him choir boy status, I’ll give
Him some here and there experimentation. And some overindulgience with wine.
But I think his issue with any addiction was around 2010 or when we see him physically decline. That is my opinion.

I will say I didn’t think Whitney was a druggie until she married bobby that was
Confirmation for me. Or when I saw her on an awards show sitting in the audience
Dressed like salt n peppa.

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said:

Nope you are far from upsetting me. I feel you are trying to make me come to a conclusion based on one concert, and that I do not understand how. You have no idea if I wanted to be there, how much of the Stones music I'm familiar with, nothing, hell not even if I was stoned off my azz while I was there, I mean nothing beyond I was there. I wasn't stoned but you don't know that. Heck I could have spent the time flirting with the concessions guy. You want a conclusion based on very little information.

The warrant didn't specify for how long or when it started or any of that type of information. A few of them specifically used the word "recently", can you tell me an exact date just by that word? I know I can't, I'm not even sure what "recently" means, a month, six months, a year?

One thing we know is that "recently" is not 20 or 30 years.

as long as you are getting the drugs into your body you need not to be sick, you are not in withdrawel...

Menes said:

Nice summation. It's also possible P was doing putting pills in specfic or random bottles. As I previously stated, this is fairly common among people who want to hide their usage of meds for a large variety of reasons.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

One thing we know is that "recently" is not 20 or 30 years.

as long as you are getting the drugs into your body you need not to be sick, you are not in withdrawel...

But according to the serch warrants he was in withdrawal and had been for a while. Was he addicted or in withdrawal. The problem is we do not know so for you to draw up this imagnary senario is mine boggling. Are you working on a book or something?

Imagine being in withdrawal and being able to make a plane ride to Australia and actually staying an extra week and doing several shows. Never leaving the stage to vomit or crap. Never appearing sick or out it or irritated to the concert goers or the promoter. He felt so good about working with Prince he signed on to do more shows in the fall.

Does this make sense to you?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Speaking from my own experience nearly a decade ago, yes. And for some it is fairly easy to 'function' as usual while on many meds.
Taking 1-2 pain pills when in pain doesn't necessarily make that person loaded or disoriented or uncoordinated, etc.
Depends on the person, meds prescribed, medical condition, etc.

Peace & Be Wild

I wanna say that by and large everyone here has been courteous and made this back and forth and differing of views not at all cantankerous and
Pleasant despite the topic.

If he wasn’t trying to withdraw wouldn’t that make performing impossible.
Isn’t that something that kinda takes you down for a bit.
Can you with draw slowly without getting sick?