BartVanHemelen said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Also remember PrinceVault doesn't have 100% answers on everything.

I've updated them on stuff like Chocolate also have Jill Jones on background vocals as well as per Lisa Coleman Prince having Lisa & Jill come in to do additional vocal work on Baby I'm A Star

and some other things.

.

Except OP didn't even bother to research first. Couldn't even be arsed to check some of this stuff out on Princevault and then perhaps start a thread on "PV sayx X, but I can hear Prince's voice on track Y, so is PV incomplete?"

.

Instead it's the old "spoonfeed me this easily retrievable information!"

& many on here are happy to answer. In effect you are saying that anyone not as hard core as us has no buisness using Prince.org a 1st port of call. Instead you want them to to use google / P.Vault etc & NOT engage with the Prince community on here. WTAF! Is this why your website folded?

It's six of one, have a dozen of the other. No?

Of course it's appreciated when someone is excited about a topic such as this and comes here to start a discussion on it.

Maybe it would just be better when one has questions and knows where to get the answers, that they spend a little time to do the research themselves (which should actually be FUN if one is truly curious), then come back here and talk about what they learned and maybe ask questions they couldn't find the answer to in their research.

Wouldn't that be a more engaging and participative way to conduct discussions on such topics?

Just sayin... maybe both points are valid?

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Except OP didn't even bother to research first. Couldn't even be arsed to check some of this stuff out on Princevault and then perhaps start a thread on "PV sayx X, but I can hear Prince's voice on track Y, so is PV incomplete?"

.

Instead it's the old "spoonfeed me this easily retrievable information!"

& many on here are happy to answer. In effect you are saying that anyone not as hard core as us has no buisness using Prince.org a 1st port of call. Instead you want them to to use google / P.Vault etc & NOT engage with the Prince community on here. WTAF! Is this why your website folded?

.

These songs were released THIRTY YEARS AGO. Any sensible person would know that there's likely plenty of info out there. Hell, back in my day you couldn't just fucking Google anything, you needed to read books, books which were often not available in libraries so you needed to invest money. Or fanmags, which were even harder to obtain and even more expensive.

.

Is reading the EASILY AVAILABLE information that much trouble? Is this thread unearthing anything that hasn't been known for decades?

.

Why is urging people to do A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT such a bother to so many of you?

BartVanHemelen said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

& many on here are happy to answer. In effect you are saying that anyone not as hard core as us has no buisness using Prince.org a 1st port of call. Instead you want them to to use google / P.Vault etc & NOT engage with the Prince community on here. WTAF! Is this why your website folded?

.

These songs were released THIRTY YEARS AGO. Any sensible person would know that there's likely plenty of info out there. Hell, back in my day you couldn't just fucking Google anything, you needed to read books, books which were often not available in libraries so you needed to invest money. Or fanmags, which were even harder to obtain and even more expensive.

.

Is reading the EASILY AVAILABLE information that much trouble? Is this thread unearthing anything that hasn't been known for decades?

.

Why is urging people to do A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT such a bother to so many of you?

*

YES!!! Because back in our day we had to walk to school uphill both damn ways while carrying wood that we would use to heat the damn one-room school house. Then, after that and before this damn internet, we’d have to meet strange people in back allies for purple information. So, to hell with these damn millennials and their nerve to ask people like us who slaved away to hoard...err...I mean collect this data to wield over the heads of the ignorant people who are clearly undeserving of da funk. The next thing we kno' they’ll be asking to ride our motorcycle or, even worse, asking us to burn them a copy of that time that Prince was on stage with James Brown and Michael Jackson. When will it stop, people, when will it stop?!?

databank said:

BlackSweat86 said:

I don't see how he wasn't involved at all with at least "Too Sexy." During a couple of points his voice is clearly heard so he at least performed on it. True that doesn't mean he wrote it or produced it but he had a part in it somehow.

When exactly do you believe you hear his voice?

Around the 1:38 mark.

1725topp said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

These songs were released THIRTY YEARS AGO. Any sensible person would know that there's likely plenty of info out there. Hell, back in my day you couldn't just fucking Google anything, you needed to read books, books which were often not available in libraries so you needed to invest money. Or fanmags, which were even harder to obtain and even more expensive.

.

Is reading the EASILY AVAILABLE information that much trouble? Is this thread unearthing anything that hasn't been known for decades?

.

Why is urging people to do A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT such a bother to so many of you?

*

YES!!! Because back in our day we had to walk to school uphill both damn ways while carrying wood that we would use to heat the damn one-room school house. Then, after that and before this damn internet, we’d have to meet strange people in back allies for purple information. So, to hell with these damn millennials and their nerve to ask people like us who slaved away to hoard...err...I mean collect this data to wield over the heads of the ignorant people who are clearly undeserving of da funk. The next thing we kno' they’ll be asking to ride our motorcycle or, even worse, asking us to burn them a copy of that time that Prince was on stage with James Brown and Michael Jackson. When will it stop, people, when will it stop?!?

Around the 1:38 mark.

BlackSweat86 said:

databank said:

BlackSweat86 said: When exactly do you believe you hear his voice?

Around the 1:38 mark.

Nonsense. This is most certainly not Prince. It's hard to tell (hell, it's even hard to tell if it's even a human voice at all) but it sounds like Sheila's voice, and it could be anyone else from her band just as well. There is no distinctive sound from P's voice in that scream.

[Edited 11/29/17 20:52pm]

^ Just to make sure I've listened to the whole track again (not that I hadn't heard it a few hundred times before, but I could have missed a Prince vocal dug into the mix all those years), and I am positive that none of the voices that can be heard throughout the track is Prince. It's most likely all Sheila, with maybe a short intervention by Steph Bimbaum at some point.

databank said:

^ Just to make sure I've listened to the whole track again (not that I hadn't heard it a few hundred times before, but I could have missed a Prince vocal dug into the mix all those years), and I am positive that none of the voices that can be heard throughout the track is Prince. It's most likely all Sheila, with maybe a short intervention by Steph Bimbaum at some point.

tomcooper2323 said:

djThunderfunk said:

IIRC, princevault lists the previously unreleased b-sides (Too Sexy, Save The People, Paradise Gardens, The World Is High) as having no involvement by Prince.
Seems unlikely, all things considered...

.

Got to think that Too Sexy and The World is High were by him. They sure sound like it.

.

Yes, they do sound like his songs, and most likely they are.

tomcooper2323 said:

tomcooper2323 said:

.

Got to think that Too Sexy and The World is High were by him. They sure sound like it.

.

Yes, they do sound like his songs, and most likely they are.

Ascap has it listed as not affiliated with Girlsongs so its a no.

paisleypark4 said:

WORLD IS HIGH

Total Current ASCAP Share: 100%

ISWC: T0719108696

Work ID: 530320126

Share Print Collapse

Writers

ASCAP controls 50%	PRO	IPI
ESCOVEDO SHEILA	ASCAP	131642112
SEACER LEVI	ASCAP	127084878

Performers

EASTON S

Publishers

ASCAP controls 50%	PRO	IPI
MICHAEL ANTHONY MUSICContact Info	ASCAP	127070009
SISTER FATE MUSICContact Info	ASCAP	126278572

The interesting part about it though is that all the songs he wrote for her in 1985 (except Love Bizarre) are listed soley under Sister Fate Music. Perhaps he just let her hold all the publishing to that. However, come Sheila E. album, then he replaces Girlsongs on the songs he co-wrote.

Why do they list Shena Easton????

paisleypark4 said:

tomcooper2323 said:

.

Yes, they do sound like his songs, and most likely they are.

Ascap has it listed as not affiliated with Girlsongs so its a no.

TOO SEXY
Total Current ASCAP Share: 50%

ISWC: Not Assigned

Work ID: 500369284

Share Print Collapse

Writers

ASCAP controls 25%	PRO	IPI
BIRNBAUM STEPHEN	NS	—
ESCOVEDO SHEILA	ASCAP	131642112
REITVELD BEN	NS	—
WEAVER MICHAEL ANDRE	ASCAP	126848064

Performers

SHEILA E

Publishers

ASCAP controls 25%	PRO	IPI
SISTER FATE MUSICContact Info	ASCAP	126278572

Additional Non-ASCAP P

__________

WORLD IS HIGH

Total Current ASCAP Share: 100%

ISWC: T0719108696

Work ID: 530320126

Share Print Collapse

Writers

ASCAP controls 50%	PRO	IPI
ESCOVEDO SHEILA	ASCAP	131642112
SEACER LEVI	ASCAP	127084878

Performers

EASTON S

Publishers

ASCAP controls 50%	PRO	IPI
MICHAEL ANTHONY MUSICContact Info	ASCAP	127070009
SISTER FATE MUSICContact Info	ASCAP	126278572

The interesting part about it though is that all the songs he wrote for her in 1985 (except Love Bizarre) are listed soley under Sister Fate Music. Perhaps he just let her hold all the publishing to that. However, come Sheila E. album, then he replaces Girlsongs on the songs he co-wrote.

He did give her publishing, therefore all royalties, on Romance 1600 (save for a half of ALB). We had no way to be sure Prince had written those songs until Nilsen's book, DMSR, revealed that according to (at least) Susan R, Prince had written the songs without doubt.

.

For years we had no idea why, save that Prince had been generous. If you connect the dots, Sheila tacitely gave an explaination to that in theRedBull Academy interview she gave a year ago: she explains that she spent money inconsiderably during the whole PR Tour, without thinking (hotel rooms, limos, food, clothes, etc.), and at the end of the tour her accountants come and say "hey, here's your 100,000 dollars bill" and she freaked out because she'd burnt her advance and didn't have that kind of money. Contrarily to The Time, V6 or The Family, Sheila wasn't a Prince employee on a weekly salary, she had a proper contract with WB and was on her own financially.

.

She doesn't explain how she solved the problem but the rest is easy to figure out: she went to Prince crying "what have I done, how can I get out of it?" and Prince, who had just become super rich, was generous enough to give away all his royalties on the next record, in order for her to be able to pay her bills.

.

Prince has been know to give away royalties on a few occasions after that: even though it's never been established with certainty for all songs save Good Judy Girlfriend, it's very likely that all the credits/royalties attributed to Carmen on her albums were in fact Prince. It's at least certain for GJG,credited to Carmen solely but in fact known to have been first recorded before Carmen even met Prince.

Later on, Prince shared all royalties with all NPG members on both Gold Nigga and Exodus, when it's been established that he had, in fact, written most of the material by himself. An interesting fact is that Call The Law was registered twice: once in 1992 as a Prince/Seacer/Mosley composition, then again a year later as a collective Prince/NPG composition.

And then again, with Tamar. Tamar reportedly admitted in private that she hadn't written anything on M&H despite receiving ASCAP registration in her name. Interstingly, Kept Woman suggests it's true, because the song was copyrighted once as a Prince/Tamar song, then when released on Elixer, it was copyrighted again as a sole Prince composition.

BartVanHemelen said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

& many on here are happy to answer. In effect you are saying that anyone not as hard core as us has no buisness using Prince.org a 1st port of call. Instead you want them to to use google / P.Vault etc & NOT engage with the Prince community on here. WTAF! Is this why your website folded?

.

These songs were released THIRTY YEARS AGO. Any sensible person would know that there's likely plenty of info out there. Hell, back in my day you couldn't just fucking Google anything, you needed to read books, books which were often not available in libraries so you needed to invest money. Or fanmags, which were even harder to obtain and even more expensive.

.

Is reading the EASILY AVAILABLE information that much trouble? Is this thread unearthing anything that hasn't been known for decades?

.

Why is urging people to do A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT such a bother to so many of you?

.

Bart, be fair. I've read enough of your posts--and been on the receiving end of a few--enough to hazard a guess that it's not your urging of fans to do research that bothers them, so much as it's the almost guaranteed insults and belittling that so often accompany your responses to anyone who doesn't think like you, doesn't share the same exact set of facts as you (literally everybody), or who possess anything less than the most advanced knowledge of Prince's entire body of work.

.

Princevault is a fantastic resource and I agree with you that veteran fans should continue to make new fans aware of it--and politely encourage them to utilize it. But I don't relate to why anyone here feels the need to come down hard on fans posting basic questions. It may be easy for hardcore fans like us to navigate Princevault and understand all of the extraneous data contained in just one entry page there (and actually find it interesting to read), but I wonder sometimes if directing a new or casual fan to Princevault doesn't sometimes feel to them like we're tossing an Atlas to an out-of-towner who just stopped to ask for directions to the nearest gas station.

Bluu said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

These songs were released THIRTY YEARS AGO. Any sensible person would know that there's likely plenty of info out there. Hell, back in my day you couldn't just fucking Google anything, you needed to read books, books which were often not available in libraries so you needed to invest money. Or fanmags, which were even harder to obtain and even more expensive.

.

Is reading the EASILY AVAILABLE information that much trouble? Is this thread unearthing anything that hasn't been known for decades?

.

Why is urging people to do A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT such a bother to so many of you?

.

Bart, be fair. I've read enough of your posts--and been on the receiving end of a few--enough to hazard a guess that it's not your urging of fans to do research that bothers them, so much as it's the almost guaranteed insults and belittling that so often accompany your responses to anyone who doesn't think like you, doesn't share the same exact set of facts as you (literally everybody), or who possess anything less than the most advanced knowledge of Prince's entire body of work.

.

Princevault is a fantastic resource and I agree with you that veteran fans should continue to make new fans aware of it--and politely encourage them to utilize it. But I don't relate to why anyone here feels the need to come down hard on fans posting basic questions. It may be easy for hardcore fans like us to navigate Princevault and understand all of the extraneous data contained in just one entry page there (and actually find it interesting to read), but I wonder sometimes if directing a new or casual fan to Princevault doesn't sometimes feel to them like we're tossing an Atlas to an out-of-towner who just stopped to ask for directions to the nearest gas station.

Maybe we could grant Bart some sort of special status, someone who is a fiction character or a program and can't escape how he was written/programmed. I mean if X or Y scolds you, you can get pissed because you may think they dissing you or whatever. But with Bart it ain't personnal. When Bart scolds me, I don't take it personally: he scolds everyone, all the time, so I know it's not about me and I'm cool with it. It's just the way Bart is.

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

paisleypark4 said:

Ascap has it listed as not affiliated with Girlsongs so its a no.

He did give her publishing, therefore all royalties, on Romance 1600 (save for a half of ALB). We had no way to be sure Prince had written those songs until Nilsen's book, DMSR, revealed that according to (at least) Susan R, Prince had written the songs without doubt.

.

For years we had no idea why, save that Prince had been generous. If you connect the dots, Sheila tacitely gave an explaination to that in theRedBull Academy interview she gave a year ago: she explains that she spent money inconsiderably during the whole PR Tour, without thinking (hotel rooms, limos, food, clothes, etc.), and at the end of the tour her accountants come and say "hey, here's your 100,000 dollars bill" and she freaked out because she'd burnt her advance and didn't have that kind of money. Contrarily to The Time, V6 or The Family, Sheila wasn't a Prince employee on a weekly salary, she had a proper contract with WB and was on her own financially.

.

She doesn't explain how she solved the problem but the rest is easy to figure out: she went to Prince crying "what have I done, how can I get out of it?" and Prince, who had just become super rich, was generous enough to give away all his royalties on the next record, in order for her to be able to pay her bills.

.

Prince has been know to give away royalties on a few occasions after that: even though it's never been established with certainty for all songs save Good Judy Girlfriend, it's very likely that all the credits/royalties attributed to Carmen on her albums were in fact Prince. It's at least certain for GJG,credited to Carmen solely but in fact known to have been first recorded before Carmen even met Prince.

Later on, Prince shared all royalties with all NPG members on both Gold Nigga and Exodus, when it's been established that he had, in fact, written most of the material by himself. An interesting fact is that Call The Law was registered twice: once in 1992 as a Prince/Seacer/Mosley composition, then again a year later as a collective Prince/NPG composition.

And then again, with Tamar. Tamar reportedly admitted in private that she hadn't written anything on M&H despite receiving ASCAP registration in her name. Interstingly, Kept Woman suggests it's true, because the song was copyrighted once as a Prince/Tamar song, then when released on Elixer, it was copyrighted again as a sole Prince composition.

Thank you for that. I had no idea that Sheila had some financial troubles after Glamorus Life so yes that does make perfect sense.

See this is why I like when basic topics like these open up the doors for all types of conversations. If it was for people like Bart who likes to suggest there be no conversation, this would never happen and no one would be talking...so newbies keep the questions coming as I am learning too as a 15 year Org Vet myself lol.

FUNKNROLL said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Always remember there are a lot of NEW Prince fans / fans to the Prince scene.
So we might know of a lot of topics and websites, but others do not.

Many people did not live throught the 1980s period and are just experiencing the music and times etc

Some people are lazy in their questions, some are looking for connection or discussion.

I would add - before anybody takes others to task over wasting (others) time asking for info found elsewhere, consider 1. You’re spending your time here, of all places. 2. You’re spending your time viewing a thread you presumably already know the answer to (or at least know answers are at PV). All that is just to say - some people come here for conversation. Not research / answers. [Edited 12/1/17 4:09am]

Well said.

I read an interview a long time ago in a financial website with Sheila and she said the Glam Life alone made her a millionaire (actually the intericewer asked her did it make you a millionaire and she just said "yes".... she was very humble).

GaryMF said:

GaryMF said:

I read an interview a long time ago in a financial website with Sheila and she said the Glam Life alone made her a millionaire (actually the intericewer asked her did it make you a millionaire and she just said "yes".... she was very humble).

I can't explain the contradiction between both statements. Maybe she hadn't gotten the money from TGL's sales yet by the end of the PR Tour but IDK. We'd have to ask her to clarify those 2 contradicting statements. The statement she made recently about being under debts by the end of the tour seemed to provide a rational explaination for Prince giving-up royalties on R1600 but of course IDK, Prince also gave The Revolution a million bucks each so he was obviously in a generous mood at that point.

databank said:

GaryMF said:

I read an interview a long time ago in a financial website with Sheila and she said the Glam Life alone made her a millionaire (actually the intericewer asked her did it make you a millionaire and she just said "yes".... she was very humble).

I can't explain the contradiction between both statements. Maybe she hadn't gotten the money from TGL's sales yet by the end of the PR Tour but IDK. We'd have to ask her to clarify those 2 contradicting statements. The statement she made recently about being under debts by the end of the tour seemed to provide a rational explaination for Prince giving-up royalties on R1600 but of course IDK, Prince also gave The Revolution a million bucks each so he was obviously in a generous mood at that point.

I think we should all take some time in here and read her book starting to look like. Probably has some answers.

I don't know the actual number, but he certainly wrote all of the good ones.