OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

I always find it surprising that 8 seems to get much, MUCH more love than 16. It's almost as if 16 had never happened

Just maybe because 8 had more promo? Madhouse (8) opened for the SOTT tour, videos and a few talk show appearances?

I think I like 16 better though.

???

monkeytennis said:

I always thought the song ‘Camilla’ by Art of Noise was in a similar vein as Madhouse 8.

This is really far-fetched. Why in the world would you think such a thing?

I wonder if Prince had heard the Art Of Noise album In Visible Silence (1986), and if this is the ‘Plagiarism’ that was mentioned.

Mentioned by whom? When? In which context?

And obviously the name ‘Camilla’ is kinda like Camille.

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

I always find it surprising that 8 seems to get much, MUCH more love than 16. It's almost as if 16 had never happened

Just maybe because 8 had more promo? Madhouse (8) opened for the SOTT tour, videos and a few talk show appearances?

I think I like 16 better though.

Has anyone mentioned the AMAZINGLY BLISTERING later album: 24?

17 (Penetration)
18 (R U Legal Yet?)
19 (A Girl And Her Puppy)
20 (Jailbait)
21-24 (The Dopamine Rush Suite)

gimmesomehornz said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just maybe because 8 had more promo? Madhouse (8) opened for the SOTT tour, videos and a few talk show appearances?

I think I like 16 better though.

Has anyone mentioned the AMAZINGLY BLISTERING later album: 24?

17 (Penetration)
18 (R U Legal Yet?)
19 (A Girl And Her Puppy)
20 (Jailbait)
21-24 (The Dopamine Rush Suite)

lol love that stuff

I'll do a thread for the Madhouse 24

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Just maybe because 8 had more promo? Madhouse (8) opened for the SOTT tour, videos and a few talk show appearances?

I think I like 16 better though.

???

One of the shows was Video Soul

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

???

One of the shows was Video Soul

I never knew! I hope those will find their way to YT!

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

One of the shows was Video Soul

I never knew! I hope those will find their way to YT!

I would love to see a collection of Video Soul interviews with Prince's associated artists. That would be a great collection.

Levi Seacer jr Donnie Simpson & Eric Leeds [Video Soul]

OldFriends4Sale said:

“Two,” for instance, is a mid-tempo number (no pun intended) that slowly builds up to a climactic keyboard solo at the end. But the entire song runs over a comical conversation you can never quite hear clearly. “My theory behind playing the saxophone is very easy,” someone says at the beginning. “Blow in one end.” Later on, the same joker questions, “Can I get sued for plagiarism? Everybody shut up and listen to me. Where’s the melody?” You have to strain to hear punch lines like, “That’s why I get paid by the note,” until the tune ends gently with the delayed tsss of a cymbal. What the hell were they talking about? We’ll never know.

I really love the Madhouse 8 album, that is why I read the entire post, which I found throughly interesting and very informative. I possibly assumed that everyone else had also read every word that was written here and maybe I should have highlighted where the phrase that I was following in the thread was...my bad.

The mention of plagiarism was as above. The context is one of the muttered voices on the album which adimittedly I'd only ever made out the phrase "Blow in one end"

As for far-fetched.......really?

You can't hear the similarity between the song 'Camilla' and '8" ?

They are both mainly Instrumental Jazz songs, with flutes and a repetive partial voice throughtout.

It's funny how two people can hear different things, but absolutely no offence meant.

I never said that Prince had stolen the song from Art of Noise. I just wondered if Prince had been influenced by it. The mention of 'Plagiarism' just made it a bit more interesting for me.

I never meant to imply that lawyers should be contacted. It was just meant as a query.

I happen to like some of The Art of Noise songs, but Prince is a far superior artist, and I never meant to cause him, or anyone else any distress.

So, as it was a pondering query, please feel free to ignore it.

P.S.

Obviously The Art of Noise were Prince fans as they went on to record their version of 'Kiss' with Tom Jones.

Which I happen to think is absolutely awful, but that's just me.

TWO

Initial tracking took place on 28 September 1986 at Prince's Galpin Blvd Home Studio, Chanhassen, MN, USA (recorded in sequence after Baby Doll House and One, the day before Three, Four and Five), although it is credited as being recorded at "Madhouse Studios", Pittsburgh, PA, USA (a fictional studio). It is likely that the title was assigned only after the final sequence had been arranged for the album.

-PrinceVault

monkeytennis said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

“Two,” for instance, is a mid-tempo number (no pun intended) that slowly builds up to a climactic keyboard solo at the end. But the entire song runs over a comical conversation you can never quite hear clearly. “My theory behind playing the saxophone is very easy,” someone says at the beginning. “Blow in one end.” Later on, the same joker questions, “Can I get sued for plagiarism? Everybody shut up and listen to me. Where’s the melody?” You have to strain to hear punch lines like, “That’s why I get paid by the note,” until the tune ends gently with the delayed tsss of a cymbal. What the hell were they talking about? We’ll never know.

I really love the Madhouse 8 album, that is why I read the entire post, which I found throughly interesting and very informative. I possibly assumed that everyone else had also read every word that was written here and maybe I should have highlighted where the phrase that I was following in the thread was...my bad.

The mention of plagiarism was as above. The context is one of the muttered voices on the album which adimittedly I'd only ever made out the phrase "Blow in one end"

As for far-fetched.......really?

You can't hear the similarity between the song 'Camilla' and '8" ?

They are both mainly Instrumental Jazz songs, with flutes and a repetive partial voice throughtout.

It's funny how two people can hear different things, but absolutely no offence meant.

I never said that Prince had stolen the song from Art of Noise. I just wondered if Prince had been influenced by it. The mention of 'Plagiarism' just made it a bit more interesting for me.

I never meant to imply that lawyers should be contacted. It was just meant as a query.

I happen to like some of The Art of Noise songs, but Prince is a far superior artist, and I never meant to cause him, or anyone else any distress.

So, as it was a pondering query, please feel free to ignore it.

P.S.

Obviously The Art of Noise were Prince fans as they went on to record their version of 'Kiss' with Tom Jones.

Which I happen to think is absolutely awful, but that's just me.

I had not understood you refered to the track Eight in particular (as opposed to the whole 8 album). I still don't really hear any real similarities, in the sense that both tracks could be compared to a lot of the ambient music that existed at the time just as much as with each other (at the time, the genre was still relatively young and limited in scope by comparison to the many shapes it would later take). The Camilla track itself is a self-reference to the earlier Moments Of Love, that had been a huge hit in 83/84. There wasn't so much ambient available at that time (by comparison to the thousands of ambient records available today) so I'm not sure what could possibly have inspired Eight, if any existing ambient at all, and I sure would like to know, but I wouldn't necessarily bet on Art Of Noise. It's possible, but it could just as well be another ambient track.

.

And I don't think there can possibly be any connection between the plagiarism lyrics on Two and any resemblance between Eight and Camilla in the sense that in the lack of any solid evidence, it seems too far fetched for me to buy it, if only because Eight cannot be considered a flat cover of Camilla, at most it could be remotely inspired by it, which doesn't constitute plagiarism; and also because the character in Two generally displays a cynical approach to music, so the plagiarism line is self-contained within the lyrics' own frame of reference, therefore not in need for further explaination.

[Edited 11/16/17 22:48pm]

DECEMEBER 5th 1987 [this can probably go under the Black Album aborted era too]

the Fine Line Cafe in Minnesota

1. Instrumental Jam

2. Eleven (previewed)

3. Horns solo

4. Villanova Junction [Jimi Hendrix]

5. Just My Imagination [Tempations]

6. Drums [solo]

7. Freedie Freebager [Miles Davis]

8. Jack U Off
9. Drum Solo

10. Chain of Fools -IGBABN -Housequake -Cold Sweat

OldFriends4Sale said:

June 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 1987

6.20.1987 @ Stadion de Galgenwaad Utretched, Holland

1. Mutiny

2. Two

3. Three

4. Six

Wich date is this? on the 21st the stage of SOTT was hidden!

(and it is Galgenwaard by the way, in the city of Utrecht)

the 20th

remko said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

June 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 1987

6.20.1987 @ Stadion de Galgenwaad Utretched, Holland

1. Mutiny

2. Two

3. Three

4. Six

Wich date is this? on the 21st the stage of SOTT was hidden!

(and it is Galgenwaard by the way, in the city of Utrecht)

THREE

PrinceVault

OldFriends4Sale said:

the 20th

remko said:

Wich date is this? on the 21st the stage of SOTT was hidden!

(and it is Galgenwaard by the way, in the city of Utrecht)

Is this a rehearsal or actual concert picture?

databank said:

I always find it surprising that 8 seems to get much, MUCH more love than 16. It's almost as if 16 had never happened

.

That might be because 8 sounded very different from what Prince would normally do. Those drums, actual piano instead of "almost but not quite piano" (see also Piano & a Microphone).

.

For me, on 8, the song 6 was the track that shouldn't have been on it. So what happened is that it was made into the single, as it was the most "Prince-like" and 16 was basically an album in that vein.

.

8 was new and fresh, 16 very much wasn't. What followed after was even worse. As in, it was in a very different spirit. Would have been fine records, shouldn't have been called Madhouse though. And, while I think Eric Leeds is one of the very few sax players that doesn't annoy me, his music preferences are very much not mine and he got a larger influence on the later albums. (Including the "Eric Leeds" albums, of course)

.

In short, Madhouse is like The Family or the Jill Jones album. A one-off, that was great while it lasted, but could never be recreated. (even the Family leftovers, feline and misunderstood have a very different feel, and the Jill Jones 2nd album tracks are totally different.)

.

Prince rarely sticks to a particular idea for a long enough time to get multiple side albums in any way consistently. Or even his own albums

monkeytennis said:

You can't hear the similarity between the song 'Camilla' and '8" ?

.

I don't think they are alike at all. One is a synthesizer exercise recalling moments in love, the other is a jazzy song. The rhythms are very different too, 8 has a swing to it, as in, it's not straight on the beat, as Camilla is.

.

Still, everyone hears things differently. For you, the two songs have similar associations. For me, not at all.

OldFriends4Sale said:

DECEMEBER 5th 1987 [this can probably go under the Black Album aborted era too]

the Fine Line Cafe in Minnesota

1. Instrumental Jam

2. Eleven (previewed)

3. Horns solo

4. Villanova Junction [Jimi Hendrix]

5. Just My Imagination [Tempations]

6. Drums [solo]

7. Freedie Freebager [Miles Davis]

8. Jack U Off
9. Drum Solo

10. Chain of Fools -IGBABN -Housequake -Cold Sweat

I listen to this show a lot in the last 30 years ! a real must for me

mediumdry said:

databank said:

I always find it surprising that 8 seems to get much, MUCH more love than 16. It's almost as if 16 had never happened

.

That might be because 8 sounded very different from what Prince would normally do. Those drums, actual piano instead of "almost but not quite piano" (see also Piano & a Microphone).

.

For me, on 8, the song 6 was the track that shouldn't have been on it. So what happened is that it was made into the single, as it was the most "Prince-like" and 16 was basically an album in that vein.

.

8 was new and fresh, 16 very much wasn't. What followed after was even worse. As in, it was in a very different spirit. Would have been fine records, shouldn't have been called Madhouse though. And, while I think Eric Leeds is one of the very few sax players that doesn't annoy me, his music preferences are very much not mine and he got a larger influence on the later albums. (Including the "Eric Leeds" albums, of course)

.

In short, Madhouse is like The Family or the Jill Jones album. A one-off, that was great while it lasted, but could never be recreated. (even the Family leftovers, feline and misunderstood have a very different feel, and the Jill Jones 2nd album tracks are totally different.)

.

Prince rarely sticks to a particular idea for a long enough time to get multiple side albums in any way consistently. Or even his own albums

I follow you regarding Six being the typical Prince track on an otherwise unusual album.

However, given how 16 is one of the most fucked-up, experimental thangs ever done by Prince, I don't follow you there at all.

There are no Eric Leeds albumS in terms of Prince being involved, I'm sure you realize that: only Times Squared and, as you say, Eric got to finish it and it got a much more polished, smooth jazz sound than it should have. Not that I dislike it, I sure have listened to it a lot, but it's a bit too "clean" for my taste. Eric's 2 later albums are more cohesive in the end, because they're Eric totally doing his thing instead of him taming wild Prince recordings

databank said:

I follow you regarding Six being the typical Prince track on an otherwise unusual album.

However, given how 16 is one of the most fucked-up, experimental thangs ever done by Prince, I don't follow you there at all.

There are no Eric Leeds albumS in terms of Prince being involved, I'm sure you realize that: only Times Squared and, as you say, Eric got to finish it and it got a much more polished, smooth jazz sound than it should have. Not that I dislike it, I sure have listened to it a lot, but it's a bit too "clean" for my taste. Eric's 2 later albums are more cohesive in the end, because they're Eric totally doing his thing instead of him taming wild Prince recordings

.

I kind of agree with you on the Eric Leeds albums and also on Times Squared, although my interest in Madhouse type albums severly dropped with 16 and I couldn't really be bothered with Times Squared much, also because I had to take a bit of distance to all things Prince in those years. It took me a number of years after 88 to appreciate new Prince music again.

.

As to 16.. you call it experimental, which I suppose it is. It is more of a collage than an album of tracks. So many references, quotes and possible hommages. Samples, an attempt at big band (12), what could have been the last part cut from 6 (10), He probably had a lot of fun making it. He definitely wanted to get across the idea of living in a madhouse. A lot of the songs sound like he made them especially to fit that theme. And it is interesting, to a point. To me, the move back to prominent synthesizer, especially those awful orchestra hits (which Prince used on so many songs around that time), it just didn't work for me. The songs are much more repetitive and unimaginative than on 8. It also sounds rushed. Like they never even took the time to get the instruments miked properly. It sounds so much worse than the almost organic sounding 8.

.

All this to simply say that unlike the first two The Time albums, he did not manage to have the two Madhouse albums sound like they were from the same band. Both Madhouse albums have their merits, but I wish he'd used a different band name for one of them to separate them as the different projects they are.