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Thread started 10/07/17 7:17pm

purplerabbitho
le

Prince--fearless? consumed with fear? Or both?

I keep hearing people describe Prince as fearless and I believe that to be true when it came to appearance, sexuality on stage, image, musical creativity. But the flipside of that coin is that it was extravagance that masked confession. There were crutches, conditions, isolations, privacy even with people he knew were in the room,, protected recesses of his heart etc. Can one be a fearless artist (in many but not all ways, he wasn't always straight forward about the specifics of his life even in his work) and consumed with fear as a man at the same time? I believe so.

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Reply #1 posted 10/07/17 9:20pm

MD431Madcat

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i too believe this 'fear' that you speak of..

was at the heart of what made Prince work 10 times harder than everyone else.

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Reply #2 posted 10/07/17 9:39pm

Polo1026

purplerabbithole said:

I keep hearing people describe Prince as fearless and I believe that to be true when it came to appearance, sexuality on stage, image, musical creativity. But the flipside of that coin is that it was extravagance that masked confession. There were crutches, conditions, isolations, privacy even with people he knew were in the room,, protected recesses of his heart etc. Can one be a fearless artist (in many but not all ways, he wasn't always straight forward about the specifics of his life even in his work) and consumed with fear as a man at the same time? I believe so.






In many ways this is a good question about Prince and equally an over stepping that Prince fans seem more prone to do than others. IMO he was both because he was human. He was raised in rejection so he used that and his fear from it to push himself and at times be vulnerable and relatable. He also used it to protect himself when he no longer wanted to be vulnerable. Just like any other human being would. Art or being an artist doesn't eliminate the need to be human.
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Reply #3 posted 10/08/17 12:23am

Lovejunky

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I would say he relentlessly faced his fears and his Love for God helped him conquer a lot

“LOVE IS THE MASTERPLAN”
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Reply #4 posted 10/08/17 10:46am

laurarichardso
n

purplerabbithole said:

I keep hearing people describe Prince as fearless and I believe that to be true when it came to appearance, sexuality on stage, image, musical creativity. But the flipside of that coin is that it was extravagance that masked confession. There were crutches, conditions, isolations, privacy even with people he knew were in the room,, protected recesses of his heart etc. Can one be a fearless artist (in many but not all ways, he wasn't always straight forward about the specifics of his life even in his work) and consumed with fear as a man at the same time? I believe so.




--Fearless
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Reply #5 posted 10/08/17 12:44pm

rogifan

How about Prince was a human being like the rest of us and human beings are complex individuals?
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #6 posted 10/08/17 12:44pm

Wlcm2thdwn3

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Fearless.

How long do you wanna be loved. Is forever enough, is forever enough?
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Reply #7 posted 10/08/17 12:51pm

purplerabbitho
le

No doubt... I am in full agreement.

rogifan said:

How about Prince was a human being like the rest of us and human beings are complex individuals?

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Reply #8 posted 10/08/17 2:42pm

FlyOnTheWall

I think it was probably a bit of both.

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Reply #9 posted 10/08/17 4:08pm

MD431Madcat

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Reply #10 posted 10/08/17 7:37pm

purplefam99

In his spirituality, fearless, his craft fearless.

Other areas i see common natural human fears.

So both.
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Reply #11 posted 10/08/17 7:40pm

purplerabbitho
le

I would argue that both sides almost equal each other in intensity. As fearless as he was in craft, business, and spirituality, he was consumed with fear when it came to trust, abandonment, insecurity, and shame issues.

purplefam99 said:

In his spirituality, fearless, his craft fearless. Other areas i see common natural human fears. So both.

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Reply #12 posted 10/09/17 7:32am

purplefam99

purplerabbithole said:

I would argue that both sides almost equal each other in intensity. As fearless as he was in craft, business, and spirituality, he was consumed with fear when it came to trust, abandonment, insecurity, and shame issues.

purplefam99 said:

In his spirituality, fearless, his craft fearless. Other areas i see common natural human fears. So both.

and i would have to agree with you.

(albeit from a limited perspective)

question about the shame issues, could you go into that a tad. i have never considered that

a huge part of his fear. but i have read here (the org) that a few people picked up on some shame.

can we discuss this shame. Perhaps i did see it but interpreted it another way. anyhow i would

like to discuss. thx.

[Edited 10/9/17 7:32am]

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Reply #13 posted 10/09/17 7:45am

purplerabbitho
le

Hiding a drug problem could be indicative of shame.

But lyrics like these seem to me to be about shame...or about how the worst kind of loneliness is the kind attributed or connected to your guilt over mistreatment of others...

There is lonely

and there is lonely

and then there is how--

I feel right now

Perhaps Cain when

he slayed his brother

could ever come close

to knowing how..

[Edited 10/9/17 7:46am]

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Reply #14 posted 10/09/17 8:57am

purplefam99

purplerabbithole said:

Hiding a drug problem could be indicative of shame.

But lyrics like these seem to me to be about shame...or about how the worst kind of loneliness is the kind attributed or connected to your guilt over mistreatment of others...

There is lonely

and there is lonely

and then there is how--

I feel right now

Perhaps Cain when

he slayed his brother

could ever come close

to knowing how..

[Edited 10/9/17 7:46am]

mmmm, hmm yes i can agree he probably was embarrased by a growing need/dependence

for meds. and i see your point about the lyrics. the dependence i get cause he wanted to keep going.

the mistreatment, i don't get (doesn't mean you aren't correct) it just seems like he could have

stopped that if he wanted, so it is hard for me to empathize with him on that. i wonder why he kept

doing it.

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Reply #15 posted 10/09/17 9:08am

purplerabbitho
le

fear is cyclical. You hurt others sometimes to avoid getting hurt or out of a fear of abandonment or due to an urge to test people (because of trust issues or misinterpretations of people's intentions) or out of desperation. When I say "hurt", I don't mean necessarily something as deliberate or obvious as a slap in the face or a hurtful word"..I mean detachment, manipulation, not being faithful). Then you are too ashamed to admit it, ask for forgiveness, or even ask for help from those you have hurt in the past. But there are little things people do when they want forgiveness...They publically compliment the victim (Prince sometimes publically complimented folks years later)... they let bad words stated about them by former associates publically slide with no self defense) (i mean I would find it nearly impossible to work again with anyone who contributed info to the Hahn [rise and fall of prince] book but Prince did work with and ocassionally associate with some of the folks who were in that book) , and they offer financial assistance when a person gets sick (Rosie Gaines for example).

I want to also add that one's person's definition of "mistreatment" is another person's definition of self-defense, tough love, or a boss's duties to keep his employees in check and doing their best work.. Things get complicated when you are a boss of quite a few people who have their own egos, ambitions, and agendas to contend with. To prince, pushing people might have been a way to both get the work done that needed to be done and to help folks learn the many tricks of the trade (both pragmatic and a version of tough love) . The stress the folks feel as a result might feel like mistreatment at the time.

ITs important to remember that Prince never told his side of the story. It might be repetence or shame that buttoned his lip or a belief that people wouldn't understand his side or an intentional self-involvement that shielded him from insults. Who knows?

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Hiding a drug problem could be indicative of shame.

But lyrics like these seem to me to be about shame...or about how the worst kind of loneliness is the kind attributed or connected to your guilt over mistreatment of others...

[Edited 10/9/17 7:46am]

mmmm, hmm yes i can agree he probably was embarrased by a growing need/dependence

for meds. and i see your point about the lyrics. the dependence i get cause he wanted to keep going.

the mistreatment, i don't get (doesn't mean you aren't correct) it just seems like he could have

stopped that if he wanted, so it is hard for me to empathize with him on that. i wonder why he kept

doing it.

[Edited 10/9/17 9:33am]

[Edited 10/9/17 9:36am]

[Edited 10/9/17 9:38am]

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Reply #16 posted 10/09/17 9:50am

NouveauDance

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No one is without some fears or insecurities. We are all human.

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Reply #17 posted 10/09/17 9:55am

purplefam99

purplerabbithole said:

fear is cyclical. You hurt others sometimes to avoid getting hurt or out of a fear of abandonment or due to an urge to test people (because of trust issues or misinterpretations of people's intentions) or out of desperation. When I say "hurt", I don't mean necessarily something as deliberate or obvious as a slap in the face or a hurtful word"..I mean detachment, manipulation, not being faithful). Then you are too ashamed to admit it, ask for forgiveness, or even ask for help from those you have hurt in the past. But there are little things people do when they want forgiveness...They publically compliment the victim (Prince sometimes publically complimented folks years later)... they let bad words stated about them by former associates publically slide with no self defense) (i mean I would find it nearly impossible to work again with anyone who contributed info to the Hahn [rise and fall of prince] book but Prince did work with and ocassionally associate with some of the folks who were in that book) , and they offer financial assistance when a person gets sick (Rosie Gaines for example).



I want to also add that one's person's definition of "mistreatment" is another person's definition of self-defense, tough love, or a boss's duties to keep his employees in check and doing their best work.. Things get complicated when you are a boss of quite a few people who have their own egos, ambitions, and agendas to contend with. To prince, pushing people might have been a way to both get the work done that needed to be done and to help folks learn the many tricks of the trade (both pragmatic and a version of tough love) . The stress the folks feel as a result might feel like mistreatment at the time.

ITs important to remember that Prince never told his side of the story. It might be repetence or shame that buttoned his lip or a belief that people wouldn't understand his side or an intentional self-involvement that shielded him from insults. Who knows?










purplefam99 said:




purplerabbithole said:


Hiding a drug problem could be indicative of shame.



But lyrics like these seem to me to be about shame...or about how the worst kind of loneliness is the kind attributed or connected to your guilt over mistreatment of others...



[Edited 10/9/17 7:46am]



mmmm, hmm yes i can agree he probably was embarrased by a growing need/dependence


for meds. and i see your point about the lyrics. the dependence i get cause he wanted to keep going.


the mistreatment, i don't get (doesn't mean you aren't correct) it just seems like he could have


stopped that if he wanted, so it is hard for me to empathize with him on that. i wonder why he kept


doing it.







[Edited 10/9/17 9:33am]


[Edited 10/9/17 9:36am]

[Edited 10/9/17 9:38am]




Yes and my ending statement is "who knows" as well but I like discussing. Thx!
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Reply #18 posted 10/09/17 9:57am

purplefam99

NouveauDance said:

No one is without some fears or insecurities. We are all human.




I wholeheartedly agree. And recognize that. That should be a disclaimer on all posts smile
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Reply #19 posted 10/09/17 4:12pm

GustavoRibas

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I always thought that it was real interesting that Prince seemed so fearless doing the music he did, using the clothes he did, his stage presence, etc. But at the same time he seemed so shy in interviews. He looked always very uncomfortable, even after 20 or 30 years doing them.

[Edited 10/9/17 16:12pm]

Peace
Gustavo Ribas
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