independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Sun 22nd Oct 2017 6:39am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > bad chronic pain since when??
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 19 of 24 « First<151617181920212223>Last »
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #540 posted 10/11/17 4:32pm

laurarichardso
n

purplerabbithole said:

I avoid cornball conspiracies unless I have no choice. The truth is a few informed people on this site have stated very clearly that opiod addiction doesn't necessarily manifest itself in falling down drunk loopy behavior. Musicians in awe of Prince, who don't know what he was like before working with him and who barely spoke with him intimately due to the attention being on the task at hand [ie music], are not necessarily going to pick up on the small things Jill Jones might have seen. These musicians need to either put up or shut up. In other words, if they definitely think P was murdered or sick, they need to raise a stink, make it adamentedly clear, call for justice and answers.. If they don't know for sure, they need state implicitly "that as far as I know from the limited time I spent with him, he didn't appear to be under the influence". Or if they did see him loopy, they need to say that they suspected drug use but didn't know him well enough to know how to broach the subject. I don't think it is a conspiracy as much as I think that they are too interested in the work they did with P getting attention to really deal with the subject of his drug usage in a upfront way. Its not a conspiracy as much as it is just self interest motivating them to take the emphasis off drugs and/or foul play (after mentioning it in the first place) and get it back to the music they are trying to get exposed. It comes off like they are being wishy washy and manipulative to get some attention. Its like saying "he's no drug addict--that is all I am saying, but since I really can't say much about it, here's the brilliant contributions I did to his work."






[Edited 10/6/17 6:29am]


Actually you have people like Andrian Chructhfield who did work with Prince that last years of his life who are telling you he was not on drugs. If he was taking them in a normal dosage he would not have been abusing them. If he was abusing them he would not have been taking them in a normal dosage. It is hard to believe that he would have had no problems with doing his work and the side effects would not even be a problem. It is making him out to be superhuman which is absurd. It is obvious that something else was going with his health either because of the pills or along with the pills.
You are correct about quite a lot of them only being concerned for their angle. Only handful I feel are sincere.
[Edited 10/11/17 16:34pm]
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #541 posted 10/12/17 5:14am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


1) Possibly. Don't forget though P ate very light. He would not have been able to deal with a long term drug problem, whilst eating heavy. Both mess up your hormones, and doing both together would have resulted in calamity a long time ago, nevermind shitting on his genius.


2) This is conjecture assumed as fact. We have no proof whatsoever who booked that appointment. Allegedly, it was someone very close to him, and we don't even know if P consented. He could actually have been against the idea.

Are you implying drugs are the reason he ate light? Did you not notice that his sibs from his mother's side are overweight? Don't you think he might have been concerned about his weight? At this point I am not sure how anyone could believe Prince was working at the level that he was for almost 40 years high out of his ass. Everyone who worked for him said he out worked them and many people quit for that reason. I know a whole segment of society wants to believe that drugs give people some super human albilities but they do not. If he was abusing these meds for 20 years he would not have been able to work at the pace that he was working in fact I am sure at some point he would have stopped working all together. There is no evidence of his work load slowing down.


Nope, P always ate light. Like he said once in interview, 'my sister used food, i used music'. P also looks natural ectomorph, meaning slim. Maybe his sisters were different. Dad looked slim, mother not so much. He also had a great muscle-fat ratio in his early 50s, which he could only have achieved by working out.


I agree that it's highly unlikely for 40 yrs solid he was high. Further, there are milder substances you can get a little buzz off. Whether it's caffeine (Bach and Beethoven were coffee addicts) smart drugs like modafinil etc. Some would say amphetamines are mild because so many are on them - some students, army, bored housewives, young professionals. Maybe P experimented, and he could have ordered stuff over the internet quite easily. He could go days without sleep apparently, with the aid of stimulants? Then again, he doesn't strike me as overly analytical. Only opiate based drugs would have helped with severe pain issues, and even then that's a red herring because of hyperalgesia.


As for his workload slowing down, none of us can know, because noone really knows how prolific he was during last few years.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #542 posted 10/12/17 8:22am

laurarichardso
n

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said: Are you implying drugs are the reason he ate light? Did you not notice that his sibs from his mother's side are overweight? Don't you think he might have been concerned about his weight? At this point I am not sure how anyone could believe Prince was working at the level that he was for almost 40 years high out of his ass. Everyone who worked for him said he out worked them and many people quit for that reason. I know a whole segment of society wants to believe that drugs give people some super human albilities but they do not. If he was abusing these meds for 20 years he would not have been able to work at the pace that he was working in fact I am sure at some point he would have stopped working all together. There is no evidence of his work load slowing down.


Nope, P always ate light. Like he said once in interview, 'my sister used food, i used music'. P also looks natural ectomorph, meaning slim. Maybe his sisters were different. Dad looked slim, mother not so much. He also had a great muscle-fat ratio in his early 50s, which he could only have achieved by working out.


I agree that it's highly unlikely for 40 yrs solid he was high. Further, there are milder substances you can get a little buzz off. Whether it's caffeine (Bach and Beethoven were coffee addicts) smart drugs like modafinil etc. Some would say amphetamines are mild because so many are on them - some students, army, bored housewives, young professionals. Maybe P experimented, and he could have ordered stuff over the internet quite easily. He could go days without sleep apparently, with the aid of stimulants? Then again, he doesn't strike me as overly analytical. Only opiate based drugs would have helped with severe pain issues, and even then that's a red herring because of hyperalgesia.


As for his workload slowing down, none of us can know, because noone really knows how prolific he was during last few years.

lord the people who work with him know how prolific he was.

Morris Hayes who said Prince recored 10 albums of material from 2010 on because he said he work on some of it.

We have the stuff Ian stole

We know about his Blue Note project and the Black Is The New Black projects.

We know about 3rd Eye Girl, Judith, and Andy. All of which probaly have outakes.

He never stopped performing live and no one has any stories about slurred speech, not showing up or just being a general asshole which drugs have a tendency to make people go into over the long haul.

I do not think he naturally slim as half of his siblings are overweight. I think he stayed in shape and being a vegetarian kept the fat off. I still do not see pain pills making a person lose muscle mass but if you want to believe he had such a drastic change in his apperance within the space of few months go ahead.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #543 posted 10/13/17 6:19am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Nope, P always ate light. Like he said once in interview, 'my sister used food, i used music'. P also looks natural ectomorph, meaning slim. Maybe his sisters were different. Dad looked slim, mother not so much. He also had a great muscle-fat ratio in his early 50s, which he could only have achieved by working out.


I agree that it's highly unlikely for 40 yrs solid he was high. Further, there are milder substances you can get a little buzz off. Whether it's caffeine (Bach and Beethoven were coffee addicts) smart drugs like modafinil etc. Some would say amphetamines are mild because so many are on them - some students, army, bored housewives, young professionals. Maybe P experimented, and he could have ordered stuff over the internet quite easily. He could go days without sleep apparently, with the aid of stimulants? Then again, he doesn't strike me as overly analytical. Only opiate based drugs would have helped with severe pain issues, and even then that's a red herring because of hyperalgesia.


As for his workload slowing down, none of us can know, because noone really knows how prolific he was during last few years.

lord the people who work with him know how prolific he was.

Morris Hayes who said Prince recored 10 albums of material from 2010 on because he said he work on some of it.

We have the stuff Ian stole

We know about his Blue Note project and the Black Is The New Black projects.

We know about 3rd Eye Girl, Judith, and Andy. All of which probaly have outakes.

He never stopped performing live and no one has any stories about slurred speech, not showing up or just being a general asshole which drugs have a tendency to make people go into over the long haul.

I do not think he naturally slim as half of his siblings are overweight. I think he stayed in shape and being a vegetarian kept the fat off. I still do not see pain pills making a person lose muscle mass but if you want to believe he had such a drastic change in his apperance within the space of few months go ahead.


Actually, taking pain pills absolutely can make someone lose weight - without even willing it - because, over an extended time, it can decimate the intergrity of the parasympathetic nervous system, a key component of which is digestion and how body turns food into energy. Read about the anecdotal reports of his 'illness' by his chef and suchlike. Said descriptions show the classic effects of opiate withdrawal.


As for Prince's build and weight issues? I'm willing to bet that genetically he put on weight far less easily than an average person his age.



 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #544 posted 10/13/17 6:44am

purplerabbitho
le

You mention all the things P was able to do the last 5 to 10 years of his life as proof that he didn't have a drug dependence problem. There is validity to what you are saying, but only if you define drug dependency as full out addiction. The reality is that a 47-57 year old man who danced most of his adult life and did splits and jumps while wearing high heels is going to have serious pain issues and not just in his hips, but presumably also his knees, his back, his ankles, the arches of his feet, his shoulders, etc. ALso, his fingers could possibly also have been developing arthritis due to all of the playing. You don't think he needed a great deal of painkillers to help him??? He wasn't the ten million dollar man...his was a middle aged man conducting himself like a 20-30 year old rock star. He functioned well for quite a while, (and maybe kicked the dependence for a short while after getting scar tissue removed from his hip in 2010) but eventually that shit catches up with you and the dependence over time escalates into a more intense addiction....At the end, it had escalated but he didn't have any time to bounce back due to a fatal mistake. . I would bet that P's liver was damaged and it was killing him so just told his staff to get whatever would make him feel better but didn't anticipate the danger of those counterfit pills or that his time on earth was that limited.. Maybe the doctor tests were just confirmation that his mysterious illness was more serious than withdrawal and was instead the result of acute liver failure...thus the reason for family secrecy.

Let's talk about rock star addiction for a sec. There are some great rock documentaries on netflix right now. I saw ones on Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendricks..Both folks of course died of overdoses. Janis's addiction was more discussed than Jimi's. But in none of the footage shown were they noticably high or drunk and both were rather prolific. (kind of laid back in interviews but still articulate). Ray Charles had an addiction and I don't recall any clips of him being high on stage (maybe I missed some.) Now, lets look at Amy Winehouse...she did show signs of being high almost all the time. I have a theory. Amy didn't really want to be up there on stage sometimes (because she was prodded and pushed) and so she tossed back a few drinks and some pills. Also, unfortunately, she had an enabling drug addict boyfriend she was equally obsessed with. The rest of the folks I described used music and work as their drug. And then the high from work wore off and the adreneline that kept the emotional and/or physical pain at bay dissipated so they turned to drugs. None of these people posted on social media describing their highs like Amy did. Could this explain P as well--he functioned like Ray Charles (P being probably even more secretive with band than most) , not like Amy Winehouse...? He worked to avoid the pain and need for drugs (music as a distraction and a source of natual adreline) until he started to need a few pills to even get up on stage (due to pain). That is the point when dependence becomes addiction.

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Nope, P always ate light. Like he said once in interview, 'my sister used food, i used music'. P also looks natural ectomorph, meaning slim. Maybe his sisters were different. Dad looked slim, mother not so much. He also had a great muscle-fat ratio in his early 50s, which he could only have achieved by working out.


I agree that it's highly unlikely for 40 yrs solid he was high. Further, there are milder substances you can get a little buzz off. Whether it's caffeine (Bach and Beethoven were coffee addicts) smart drugs like modafinil etc. Some would say amphetamines are mild because so many are on them - some students, army, bored housewives, young professionals. Maybe P experimented, and he could have ordered stuff over the internet quite easily. He could go days without sleep apparently, with the aid of stimulants? Then again, he doesn't strike me as overly analytical. Only opiate based drugs would have helped with severe pain issues, and even then that's a red herring because of hyperalgesia.


As for his workload slowing down, none of us can know, because noone really knows how prolific he was during last few years.

lord the people who work with him know how prolific he was.

Morris Hayes who said Prince recored 10 albums of material from 2010 on because he said he work on some of it.

We have the stuff Ian stole

We know about his Blue Note project and the Black Is The New Black projects.

We know about 3rd Eye Girl, Judith, and Andy. All of which probaly have outakes.

He never stopped performing live and no one has any stories about slurred speech, not showing up or just being a general asshole which drugs have a tendency to make people go into over the long haul.

I do not think he naturally slim as half of his siblings are overweight. I think he stayed in shape and being a vegetarian kept the fat off. I still do not see pain pills making a person lose muscle mass but if you want to believe he had such a drastic change in his apperance within the space of few months go ahead.

[Edited 10/13/17 7:10am]

[Edited 10/13/17 7:17am]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #545 posted 10/13/17 6:56am

purplerabbitho
le

Adrian is someone I don't entirely trust to say what P was doing or not doing. He even admitted that it was mostly a professional relationship with P and that P didn't really loosen up around his horn section until around 2014 when they appeared on Arsenio. He got chummy with the guys a bit but it was a boss-employee relationship that was mostly respectful most of the time. Plus Adrian is in that god awful cover band right now.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

I avoid cornball conspiracies unless I have no choice. The truth is a few informed people on this site have stated very clearly that opiod addiction doesn't necessarily manifest itself in falling down drunk loopy behavior. Musicians in awe of Prince, who don't know what he was like before working with him and who barely spoke with him intimately due to the attention being on the task at hand [ie music], are not necessarily going to pick up on the small things Jill Jones might have seen. These musicians need to either put up or shut up. In other words, if they definitely think P was murdered or sick, they need to raise a stink, make it adamentedly clear, call for justice and answers.. If they don't know for sure, they need state implicitly "that as far as I know from the limited time I spent with him, he didn't appear to be under the influence". Or if they did see him loopy, they need to say that they suspected drug use but didn't know him well enough to know how to broach the subject. I don't think it is a conspiracy as much as I think that they are too interested in the work they did with P getting attention to really deal with the subject of his drug usage in a upfront way. Its not a conspiracy as much as it is just self interest motivating them to take the emphasis off drugs and/or foul play (after mentioning it in the first place) and get it back to the music they are trying to get exposed. It comes off like they are being wishy washy and manipulative to get some attention. Its like saying "he's no drug addict--that is all I am saying, but since I really can't say much about it, here's the brilliant contributions I did to his work."

[Edited 10/6/17 6:29am]

Actually you have people like Andrian Chructhfield who did work with Prince that last years of his life who are telling you he was not on drugs. If he was taking them in a normal dosage he would not have been abusing them. If he was abusing them he would not have been taking them in a normal dosage. It is hard to believe that he would have had no problems with doing his work and the side effects would not even be a problem. It is making him out to be superhuman which is absurd. It is obvious that something else was going with his health either because of the pills or along with the pills. You are correct about quite a lot of them only being concerned for their angle. Only handful I feel are sincere. [Edited 10/11/17 16:34pm]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #546 posted 10/13/17 9:11am

laurarichardso
n

Andrian also said he was once a drug dealer and grew up around drug addicts I would think he would know something about that topic. He was still an employee who looked right in Prince's face. I take what he and about a dozen other people very seriously.

I also take that 65k on his inventory sheet seriously. I have a co-worker who just had hip replacement and they said the entire bill was 45k with half of that being for the surgery. They were in the hospital for 2 days with PT.

Do you think that bill was for a one night stay and an ambulance ride.

purplerabbithole said:

Adrian is someone I don't entirely trust to say what P was doing or not doing. He even admitted that it was mostly a professional relationship with P and that P didn't really loosen up around his horn section until around 2014 when they appeared on Arsenio. He got chummy with the guys a bit but it was a boss-employee relationship that was mostly respectful most of the time. Plus Adrian is in that god awful cover band right now.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said: Actually you have people like Andrian Chructhfield who did work with Prince that last years of his life who are telling you he was not on drugs. If he was taking them in a normal dosage he would not have been abusing them. If he was abusing them he would not have been taking them in a normal dosage. It is hard to believe that he would have had no problems with doing his work and the side effects would not even be a problem. It is making him out to be superhuman which is absurd. It is obvious that something else was going with his health either because of the pills or along with the pills. You are correct about quite a lot of them only being concerned for their angle. Only handful I feel are sincere. [Edited 10/11/17 16:34pm]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #547 posted 10/13/17 9:14am

laurarichardso
n

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

lord the people who work with him know how prolific he was.

Morris Hayes who said Prince recored 10 albums of material from 2010 on because he said he work on some of it.

We have the stuff Ian stole

We know about his Blue Note project and the Black Is The New Black projects.

We know about 3rd Eye Girl, Judith, and Andy. All of which probaly have outakes.

He never stopped performing live and no one has any stories about slurred speech, not showing up or just being a general asshole which drugs have a tendency to make people go into over the long haul.

I do not think he naturally slim as half of his siblings are overweight. I think he stayed in shape and being a vegetarian kept the fat off. I still do not see pain pills making a person lose muscle mass but if you want to believe he had such a drastic change in his apperance within the space of few months go ahead.


Actually, taking pain pills absolutely can make someone lose weight - without even willing it - because, over an extended time, it can decimate the intergrity of the parasympathetic nervous system, a key component of which is digestion and how body turns food into energy. Read about the anecdotal reports of his 'illness' by his chef and suchlike. Said descriptions show the classic effects of opiate withdrawal.


As for Prince's build and weight issues? I'm willing to bet that genetically he put on weight far less easily than an average person his age.



Men do not lose muscle like women do. There are pics of him from 2012 and 2012 and his arms are built and in one pic he has tight abs. Even in the 90s when he was skinny he did not look they way he did in that last pic from Atlanta.

I also so a pic from the fall of 2015 at the Vikings game his face looks bloated. Do pain pills make your face look bloated ?

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #548 posted 10/13/17 10:07am

purplerabbitho
le

Adrian being a former drug dealer could mean he knows what addiction looks like or could mean he lacks morality . Still don't know if I trust him.

Drug addicts/chronic pain sufferers who once had hip surgery don't go to the hospital? Also, my dad had pancreatis/necosis, the medical costs were more than a million dollars (mostly covered by insurance.) Cancer is pretty damned expensive (if you are implying that Prine was cancer-ridden)

laurarichardson said:

Andrian also said he was once a drug dealer and grew up around drug addicts I would think he would know something about that topic. He was still an employee who looked right in Prince's face. I take what he and about a dozen other people very seriously.

I also take that 65k on his inventory sheet seriously. I have a co-worker who just had hip replacement and they said the entire bill was 45k with half of that being for the surgery. They were in the hospital for 2 days with PT.

Do you think that bill was for a one night stay and an ambulance ride.

purplerabbithole said:

Adrian is someone I don't entirely trust to say what P was doing or not doing. He even admitted that it was mostly a professional relationship with P and that P didn't really loosen up around his horn section until around 2014 when they appeared on Arsenio. He got chummy with the guys a bit but it was a boss-employee relationship that was mostly respectful most of the time. Plus Adrian is in that god awful cover band right now.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #549 posted 10/13/17 11:42am

laurarichardso
n

It was something that was in his past and people can change it they want to change. He was very specific when he said he would know a drug addict a mile away and that Prince was no drug addict and that he could only speak for the 3 years he worked for him.

How do you or anyone else know he was in the hospital for only pain? We know that Dr. S claims he was seeing him for joint pain and we know nothing about Prince's health file.

I am implying that he did not get that hospital bill from going to the hospital and buying illegal drugs and he was not having test brought to him to tell him he was a drug addict?

All chronic illness have astronomical expesnses and that bill is much too high for the Moline incident or seeing Dr. S twice.

purplerabbithole said:

Adrian being a former drug dealer could mean he knows what addiction looks like or could mean he lacks morality . Still don't know if I trust him.

Drug addicts/chronic pain sufferers who once had hip surgery don't go to the hospital? Also, my dad had pancreatis/necosis, the medical costs were more than a million dollars (mostly covered by insurance.) Cancer is pretty damned expensive (if you are implying that Prine was cancer-ridden)

laurarichardson said:

Andrian also said he was once a drug dealer and grew up around drug addicts I would think he would know something about that topic. He was still an employee who looked right in Prince's face. I take what he and about a dozen other people very seriously.

I also take that 65k on his inventory sheet seriously. I have a co-worker who just had hip replacement and they said the entire bill was 45k with half of that being for the surgery. They were in the hospital for 2 days with PT.

Do you think that bill was for a one night stay and an ambulance ride.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #550 posted 10/13/17 12:13pm

purplerabbitho
le

Can I ask where you got that number or information about the hospital bill? Its a bit high, yes. But like I said, I have seen much much higher hospital bills. My dad's was over a million dollars (he ws in the hospital for 3 months and had 4 surgeries. So I realize his condition was pretty severe. But I imagine cancer treatment depending on its severity can get as high as that.)

.

laurarichardson said:

It was something that was in his past and people can change it they want to change. He was very specific when he said he would know a drug addict a mile away and that Prince was no drug addict and that he could only speak for the 3 years he worked for him.

How do you or anyone else know he was in the hospital for only pain? We know that Dr. S claims he was seeing him for joint pain and we know nothing about Prince's health file.

I am implying that he did not get that hospital bill from going to the hospital and buying illegal drugs and he was not having test brought to him to tell him he was a drug addict?

All chronic illness have astronomical expesnses and that bill is much too high for the Moline incident or seeing Dr. S twice.

purplerabbithole said:

Adrian being a former drug dealer could mean he knows what addiction looks like or could mean he lacks morality . Still don't know if I trust him.

Drug addicts/chronic pain sufferers who once had hip surgery don't go to the hospital? Also, my dad had pancreatis/necosis, the medical costs were more than a million dollars (mostly covered by insurance.) Cancer is pretty damned expensive (if you are implying that Prine was cancer-ridden)

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #551 posted 10/13/17 2:18pm

laurarichardso
n

purplerabbithole said:

You mention all the things P was able to do the last 5 to 10 years of his life as proof that he didn't have a drug dependence problem. There is validity to what you are saying, but only if you define drug dependency as full out addiction. The reality is that a 47-57 year old man who danced most of his adult life and did splits and jumps while wearing high heels is going to have serious pain issues and not just in his hips, but presumably also his knees, his back, his ankles, the arches of his feet, his shoulders, etc. ALso, his fingers could possibly also have been developing arthritis due to all of the playing. You don't think he needed a great deal of painkillers to help him??? He wasn't the ten million dollar man...his was a middle aged man conducting himself like a 20-30 year old rock star. He functioned well for quite a while, (and maybe kicked the dependence for a short while after getting scar tissue removed from his hip in 2010) but eventually that shit catches up with you and the dependence over time escalates into a more intense addiction....At the end, it had escalated but he didn't have any time to bounce back due to a fatal mistake. . I would bet that P's liver was damaged and it was killing him so just told his staff to get whatever would make him feel better but didn't anticipate the danger of those counterfit pills or that his time on earth was that limited.. Maybe the doctor tests were just confirmation that his mysterious illness was more serious than withdrawal and was instead the result of acute liver failure...thus the reason for family secrecy.



Let's talk about rock star addiction for a sec. There are some great rock documentaries on netflix right now. I saw ones on Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendricks..Both folks of course died of overdoses. Janis's addiction was more discussed than Jimi's. But in none of the footage shown were they noticably high or drunk and both were rather prolific. (kind of laid back in interviews but still articulate). Ray Charles had an addiction and I don't recall any clips of him being high on stage (maybe I missed some.) Now, lets look at Amy Winehouse...she did show signs of being high almost all the time. I have a theory. Amy didn't really want to be up there on stage sometimes (because she was prodded and pushed) and so she tossed back a few drinks and some pills. Also, unfortunately, she had an enabling drug addict boyfriend she was equally obsessed with. The rest of the folks I described used music and work as their drug. And then the high from work wore off and the adreneline that kept the emotional and/or physical pain at bay dissipated so they turned to drugs. None of these people posted on social media describing their highs like Amy did. Could this explain P as well--he functioned like Ray Charles (P being probably even more secretive with band than most) , not like Amy Winehouse...? He worked to avoid the pain and need for drugs (music as a distraction and a source of natual adreline) until he started to need a few pills to even get up on stage (due to pain). That is the point when dependence becomes addiction.







laurarichardson said:




fortuneandserendipity said:




Nope, P always ate light. Like he said once in interview, 'my sister used food, i used music'. P also looks natural ectomorph, meaning slim. Maybe his sisters were different. Dad looked slim, mother not so much. He also had a great muscle-fat ratio in his early 50s, which he could only have achieved by working out.



I agree that it's highly unlikely for 40 yrs solid he was high. Further, there are milder substances you can get a little buzz off. Whether it's caffeine (Bach and Beethoven were coffee addicts) smart drugs like modafinil etc. Some would say amphetamines are mild because so many are on them - some students, army, bored housewives, young professionals. Maybe P experimented, and he could have ordered stuff over the internet quite easily. He could go days without sleep apparently, with the aid of stimulants? Then again, he doesn't strike me as overly analytical. Only opiate based drugs would have helped with severe pain issues, and even then that's a red herring because of hyperalgesia.



As for his workload slowing down, none of us can know, because noone really knows how prolific he was during last few years.



lord the people who work with him know how prolific he was.


Morris Hayes who said Prince recored 10 albums of material from 2010 on because he said he work on some of it.



We have the stuff Ian stole



We know about his Blue Note project and the Black Is The New Black projects.


We know about 3rd Eye Girl, Judith, and Andy. All of which probaly have outakes.



He never stopped performing live and no one has any stories about slurred speech, not showing up or just being a general asshole which drugs have a tendency to make people go into over the long haul.



I do not think he naturally slim as half of his siblings are overweight. I think he stayed in shape and being a vegetarian kept the fat off. I still do not see pain pills making a person lose muscle mass but if you want to believe he had such a drastic change in his apperance within the space of few months go ahead.




[Edited 10/13/17 7:10am]

[Edited 10/13/17 7:17am]


You must be joking about Jimi Hendrix and Ray Charles. Jimi was so wacked on acid he once left the stage after pronouncing "that is what happens when earth collides with space" He crashed a half a dozen cars, he was so drunk he destroyed a hotel room, beat up a women, and died because he gobbled down wine and sleeping pills and chocked on his own vomit.
Ray Charles was a herion addict who constantly was scratching and bobbing his head. He was once so high he fell asleep and put his hand thru a dinning room table and would have bleed to death if son did not come along.
I could make a laundry list of people who screwed up on stage and some like Sly who could not find the venue. I never saw or heard of Prince doing those things and he even went so far as to do extra shows and then leave those to record more music. None of the Rock N Roll crazy shit. You cannot be addicted to drugs and maintain a work ethic. He could have been dependent on drugs with an Rx and a doctor's supervision and worked but abusing for years not buying it.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #552 posted 10/13/17 2:42pm

laurarichardso
n

I got that number off of the first inventory sheet before information was redacted. I know that number is high and my point is it high enough to make me believe he had other illness outside of joint pain. That is the point of bringing it up.

said:

Can I ask where you got that number or information about the hospital bill? Its a bit high, yes. But like I said, I have seen much much higher hospital bills. My dad's was over a million dollars (he ws in the hospital for 3 months and had 4 surgeries. So I realize his condition was pretty severe. But I imagine cancer treatment depending on its severity can get as high as that.)



.





laurarichardson said:


It was something that was in his past and people can change it they want to change. He was very specific when he said he would know a drug addict a mile away and that Prince was no drug addict and that he could only speak for the 3 years he worked for him.



How do you or anyone else know he was in the hospital for only pain? We know that Dr. S claims he was seeing him for joint pain and we know nothing about Prince's health file.



I am implying that he did not get that hospital bill from going to the hospital and buying illegal drugs and he was not having test brought to him to tell him he was a drug addict?



All chronic illness have astronomical expesnses and that bill is much too high for the Moline incident or seeing Dr. S twice.



purplerabbithole said:


Adrian being a former drug dealer could mean he knows what addiction looks like or could mean he lacks morality . Still don't know if I trust him.



Drug addicts/chronic pain sufferers who once had hip surgery don't go to the hospital? Also, my dad had pancreatis/necosis, the medical costs were more than a million dollars (mostly covered by insurance.) Cancer is pretty damned expensive (if you are implying that Prine was cancer-ridden)






 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #553 posted 10/13/17 3:54pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Actually, taking pain pills absolutely can make someone lose weight - without even willing it - because, over an extended time, it can decimate the intergrity of the parasympathetic nervous system, a key component of which is digestion and how body turns food into energy. Read about the anecdotal reports of his 'illness' by his chef and suchlike. Said descriptions show the classic effects of opiate withdrawal.


As for Prince's build and weight issues? I'm willing to bet that genetically he put on weight far less easily than an average person his age.



Men do not lose muscle like women do. There are pics of him from 2012 and 2012 and his arms are built and in one pic he has tight abs. Even in the 90s when he was skinny he did not look they way he did in that last pic from Atlanta.

I also so a pic from the fall of 2015 at the Vikings game his face looks bloated. Do pain pills make your face look bloated ?


Both genders
lose muscle as they age. I'm not aware women lose more muscle than men. They start off with less, for sure. Maybe as a middle aged woman you don't see muscles, but then you probably never did, because with women they don't pop out. The point is, no way would Prince have looked that good in his early 50s (2010-2012) without working out.


Can you really tell his face looks bloated from that distant shot tinged in blue, with him looking through window?


Let's assume you're right. Pain pills could quite reasonably make your face bloated. That can happen, if the pills he was taking long-term contained acetaminophen/paracetamol, a known liver irritant. Are you suggesting, instead, that there was an underlying illness issue? Isn't it more likely that what pills he may have been taking back then were the cause of his ill health?


Occam's Razor. hmmm

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #554 posted 10/13/17 4:36pm

purplerabbitho
le

Okay you got me there where Jimi is concerned.. biggrin But Ray charles bobbing his head just reminds me of Ray Charles and this hand crashing through a table happened in private. KJ couldn't hide stuff like that were Prince was concerned>\?

Laura, I want to challenge you one more time. LEt's say there is the ability to hide a murder, poisoning or terminal illness. Why wouldn't the ability exist to hide a drug addiction--to insure that P was clean and sober during performances?? I am hearing different things about these pills and how they impact behavior. BTW, I am not saying P didn't start with supervision and prescriptions (KJ's pill bottles in his possession prove that). I am saying he stopped caring about the supervision and being careful because he might have been having long term physical ramifications from years of being on a painkiller regiment. I am saying the painkiller regimented routine wasn't making him feel better anymore so he sought out comfort in another way.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

You mention all the things P was able to do the last 5 to 10 years of his life as proof that he didn't have a drug dependence problem. There is validity to what you are saying, but only if you define drug dependency as full out addiction. The reality is that a 47-57 year old man who danced most of his adult life and did splits and jumps while wearing high heels is going to have serious pain issues and not just in his hips, but presumably also his knees, his back, his ankles, the arches of his feet, his shoulders, etc. ALso, his fingers could possibly also have been developing arthritis due to all of the playing. You don't think he needed a great deal of painkillers to help him??? He wasn't the ten million dollar man...his was a middle aged man conducting himself like a 20-30 year old rock star. He functioned well for quite a while, (and maybe kicked the dependence for a short while after getting scar tissue removed from his hip in 2010) but eventually that shit catches up with you and the dependence over time escalates into a more intense addiction....At the end, it had escalated but he didn't have any time to bounce back due to a fatal mistake. . I would bet that P's liver was damaged and it was killing him so just told his staff to get whatever would make him feel better but didn't anticipate the danger of those counterfit pills or that his time on earth was that limited.. Maybe the doctor tests were just confirmation that his mysterious illness was more serious than withdrawal and was instead the result of acute liver failure...thus the reason for family secrecy.

Let's talk about rock star addiction for a sec. There are some great rock documentaries on netflix right now. I saw ones on Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendricks..Both folks of course died of overdoses. Janis's addiction was more discussed than Jimi's. But in none of the footage shown were they noticably high or drunk and both were rather prolific. (kind of laid back in interviews but still articulate). Ray Charles had an addiction and I don't recall any clips of him being high on stage (maybe I missed some.) Now, lets look at Amy Winehouse...she did show signs of being high almost all the time. I have a theory. Amy didn't really want to be up there on stage sometimes (because she was prodded and pushed) and so she tossed back a few drinks and some pills. Also, unfortunately, she had an enabling drug addict boyfriend she was equally obsessed with. The rest of the folks I described used music and work as their drug. And then the high from work wore off and the adreneline that kept the emotional and/or physical pain at bay dissipated so they turned to drugs. None of these people posted on social media describing their highs like Amy did. Could this explain P as well--he functioned like Ray Charles (P being probably even more secretive with band than most) , not like Amy Winehouse...? He worked to avoid the pain and need for drugs (music as a distraction and a source of natual adreline) until he started to need a few pills to even get up on stage (due to pain). That is the point when dependence becomes addiction.

[Edited 10/13/17 7:10am]

[Edited 10/13/17 7:17am]

You must be joking about Jimi Hendrix and Ray Charles. Jimi was so wacked on acid he once left the stage after pronouncing "that is what happens when earth collides with space" He crashed a half a dozen cars, he was so drunk he destroyed a hotel room, beat up a women, and died because he gobbled down wine and sleeping pills and chocked on his own vomit. Ray Charles was a herion addict who constantly was scratching and bobbing his head. He was once so high he fell asleep and put his hand thru a dinning room table and would have bleed to death if son did not come along. I could make a laundry list of people who screwed up on stage and some like Sly who could not find the venue. I never saw or heard of Prince doing those things and he even went so far as to do extra shows and then leave those to record more music. None of the Rock N Roll crazy shit. You cannot be addicted to drugs and maintain a work ethic. He could have been dependent on drugs with an Rx and a doctor's supervision and worked but abusing for years not buying it.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #555 posted 10/13/17 6:05pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

purplerabbithole said:

Okay you got me there where Jimi is concerned.. biggrin But Ray charles bobbing his head just reminds me of Ray Charles and this hand crashing through a table happened in private. KJ couldn't hide stuff like that were Prince was concerned>\?

Laura, I want to challenge you one more time. LEt's say there is the ability to hide a murder, poisoning or terminal illness. Why wouldn't the ability exist to hide a drug addiction--to insure that P was clean and sober during performances?? I am hearing different things about these pills and how they impact behavior. BTW, I am not saying P didn't start with supervision and prescriptions (KJ's pill bottles in his possession prove that). I am saying he stopped caring about the supervision and being careful because he might have been having long term physical ramifications from years of being on a painkiller regiment. I am saying the painkiller regimented routine wasn't making him feel better anymore so he sought out comfort in another way.


Exactly. It would be far easier for someone to hide a drug addiction than it would to hide a murder/poisoning or terminal illness. Here's a clue: the latter two leave more cluessssssssss. Yah.


 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #556 posted 10/13/17 6:09pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

^^ Occam's Razor hmmm


Btw, anecdotally, many drug addicts said to be good hiding their habit. Alcoholics don't fare so well, sometimes leaving empty bottles in closets haha



 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #557 posted 10/14/17 6:09am

muleFunk

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

purplerabbithole said:

Okay you got me there where Jimi is concerned.. biggrin But Ray charles bobbing his head just reminds me of Ray Charles and this hand crashing through a table happened in private. KJ couldn't hide stuff like that were Prince was concerned>\?

Laura, I want to challenge you one more time. LEt's say there is the ability to hide a murder, poisoning or terminal illness. Why wouldn't the ability exist to hide a drug addiction--to insure that P was clean and sober during performances?? I am hearing different things about these pills and how they impact behavior. BTW, I am not saying P didn't start with supervision and prescriptions (KJ's pill bottles in his possession prove that). I am saying he stopped caring about the supervision and being careful because he might have been having long term physical ramifications from years of being on a painkiller regiment. I am saying the painkiller regimented routine wasn't making him feel better anymore so he sought out comfort in another way.


Exactly. It would be far easier for someone to hide a drug addiction than it would to hide a murder/poisoning or terminal illness. Here's a clue: the latter two leave more cluessssssssss. Yah.


Cluesssssssssss

Enoungh Fentanyl in a pill two kill a battalion.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #558 posted 10/14/17 6:27am

Mumio

avatar

muleFunk said:

Cluesssssssssss

Enoungh Fentanyl in a pill two kill a battalion.


Except no official/legal report showing toxicology so it is still unproven. More information from "sources". Believe it when you see it legally documented, signed, and dated. And we probably won't because it's protected medical information.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #559 posted 10/14/17 6:40am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

muleFunk said:

fortuneandserendipity said:


Exactly. It would be far easier for someone to hide a drug addiction than it would to hide a murder/poisoning or terminal illness. Here's a clue: the latter two leave more cluessssssssss. Yah.


Cluesssssssssss

Enoungh Fentanyl in a pill two kill a battalion.


Here's another clue then. There is no definitive evidence P took just ONE pill. There is no definitive evidence he took TWO pills. Or THREE even. In fact, we have no real idea how many pills he took!


Do you see the problem with your argument. You're assuming he took one 'rogue' pill, laced with insane amount of fentanyl. Petesilas orger, for instance, says no way is he going to believe there was that much fentanyl - inadvertently consumed - from one pill

(assuming that the uncorroborated report of P's blood and liver fentanyl levels were correct).

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #560 posted 10/15/17 4:57am

laurarichardso
n

Mumio said:



muleFunk said:





Cluesssss



Enoungh Fentanyl in a pill two kill a battalion.




Except no official/legal report showing toxicology so it is still unproven. More information from "sources". Believe it when you see it legally documented, signed, and dated. And we probably won't because it's protected medical information.


But an earlier media leak told us about U477 and that turned out to be true. Not sure why it so hard to believe the leak about the toxicology report?
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #561 posted 10/15/17 5:55am

muleFunk

avatar

laurarichardson said:

Mumio said:


Except no official/legal report showing toxicology so it is still unproven. More information from "sources". Believe it when you see it legally documented, signed, and dated. And we probably won't because it's protected medical information.

But an earlier media leak told us about U477 and that turned out to be true. Not sure why it so hard to believe the leak about the toxicology report?

They just want to believe the drug addicted rockstar angle that has been put into the media.

They knew when they opened his stomach how many pills he had in his system.

They also tested the contents of the pills in the Bayer bottle.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #562 posted 10/15/17 10:36am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

muleFunk said:

They just want to believe the drug addicted rockstar angle that has been put into the media.

They knew when they opened his stomach how many pills he had in his system.

They also tested the contents of the pills in the Bayer bottle.

That's right. Pills remain intact past the point of stomach acid and digestive enzymes. NOT! faint



 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #563 posted 10/15/17 11:37am

Bodhitheblackd
og

fortuneandserendipity said:

muleFunk said:

They just want to believe the drug addicted rockstar angle that has been put into the media.

They knew when they opened his stomach how many pills he had in his system.

They also tested the contents of the pills in the Bayer bottle.

That's right. Pills remain intact past the point of stomach acid and digestive enzymes. NOT! faint



Hey, back off, MuleFunk is writing THE book about Prince's death!!! lol neutral razz

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #564 posted 10/15/17 12:31pm

Mumio

avatar

muleFunk said:

They
just want to believe the drug addicted rockstar angle that has been put into the media.


Who is "they" in this instance? Please clarify. In particular, I want to know if you are referencing me and what I've said about the tox report.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #565 posted 10/15/17 12:40pm

Mumio

avatar

laurarichardson said:


Mumio said:


Except no official/legal report showing toxicology so it is still unproven. More information from "sources". Believe it when you see it legally documented, signed, and dated. And we probably won't because it's protected medical information.


But an earlier media leak told us about U477 and that turned out to be true. Not sure why it so hard to believe the leak about the toxicology report?


Because overall, much of what we've been talking about is based on unnamed sources. We have very little information that is actual legal documentation. As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I am not buying any more info that comes from unnamed sources...we are spinning around and around on info that isn't substantiated! That's not good enough anymore, and I for one am not going to see anything else that isn't official information from a legitimate source as true. And yes, I do think everyone should take a closer look and be skeptical about anything that comes from unnamed sources. This particular thing you mentioned above is an exception to the rule. But if it's just one piece of info out of a hundred and it was correct, that is just not acceptable to say anything else is true/correct. It's not and it shouldn't be shake

[Edited 10/15/17 12:41pm]

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #566 posted 10/15/17 2:07pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

Bodhitheblackdog said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

That's right. Pills remain intact past the point of stomach acid and digestive enzymes. NOT! faint



Hey, back off, MuleFunk is writing THE book about Prince's death!!! lol neutral razz


Yes true. First he has to undertake the 'chicago mission' of tracking down his co-conspirator friends, then commence the job of exposing us for the lying Prince fiends that we are, before finally establishing the veracity of the 'Prince was murdered...

and I know who did it' fable.



 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #567 posted 10/15/17 3:01pm

laurarichardso
n

Mumio said:



laurarichardson said:




Mumio said:



Except no official/legal report showing toxicology so it is still unproven. More information from "sources". Believe it when you see it legally documented, signed, and dated. And we probably won't because it's protected medical information.




But an earlier media leak told us about U477 and that turned out to be true. Not sure why it so hard to believe the leak about the toxicology report?


Because overall, much of what we've been talking about is based on unnamed sources. We have very little information that is actual legal documentation. As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I am not buying any more info that comes from unnamed sources...we are spinning around and around on info that isn't substantiated! That's not good enough anymore, and I for one am not going to see anything else that isn't official information from a legitimate source as true. And yes, I do think everyone should take a closer look and be skeptical about anything that comes from unnamed sources. This particular thing you mentioned above is an exception to the rule. But if it's just one piece of info out of a hundred and it was correct, that is just not acceptable to say anything else is true/correct. It's not and it shouldn't be shake

[Edited 10/15/17 12:41pm]


—I disagree if that tidbit was true then other tidbits can true.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #568 posted 10/15/17 3:02pm

laurarichardso
n

Bodhitheblackdog said:[quote]



fortuneandserendipity said:




muleFunk said:



They just want to believe the drug addicted rockstar angle that has been put into the media.



They knew when they opened his stomach how many pills he had in his system.



They also tested the contents of the pills in the Bayer bottle.



That's right. Pills remain intact past the point of stomach acid and digestive enzymes. NOT! faint






Hey, back off, MuleFunk is writing THE book about Prince's death!!! lol neutral razz

[/quote
Why is it so hard to believe that someone slipped him those pills. It does not have to be a conspiracy or something that was done on purpose. It either murder tor suicide. People get killed every day and many murders go unsolved. If his family does not push the case it will never be solved and I really believe they are not interested.
[Edited 10/15/17 15:06pm]
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #569 posted 10/15/17 4:51pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

That's right. Pills remain intact past the point of stomach acid and digestive enzymes. NOT! faint



Hey, back off, MuleFunk is writing THE book about Prince's death!!! lol neutral razz

[/quote Why is it so hard to believe that someone slipped him those pills. It does not have to be a conspiracy or something that was done on purpose. It either murder tor suicide. People get killed every day and many murders go unsolved. If his family does not push the case it will never be solved and I really believe they are not interested. [Edited 10/15/17 15:06pm]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 19 of 24 « First<151617181920212223>Last »
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > bad chronic pain since when??