i gots chronic ass pain cause these threads ....

My bad. I didn't know.

PennyPurple said:

The difference is GaGa has a disease. Prince didn't have chronic pain from a disease...that we know of.

luvsexy4all said:

i gots chronic ass pain cause these threads ....

how do you treat or manage?

purplefam99 said:

luvsexy4all said:

i gots chronic ass pain cause these threads ....

how do you treat or manage?

i try to ignore

purplerabbithole said:

lady gaga, who is a mere 31, has a documentary coming out about her chronic pain issues. Prince, I figure, had been dancing for at least 35 years in some way, shape, or form (with his most strenous dancing occurring during the period of 1981-1999) before he died.. Man, he must have been dealing with a great deal of chronic pain for quite a long time, and medication of some degree would have been a part of his life from a pretty early stage and to think his JW affliates (and people like LG indirectly) are reminders of the limits he was supposed to put on surgery to cope with the problem. . Not to say he popped pills in front of everyone or was a fentanyl abuser like that one dude stated, but I do believe people had to have guessed he was on something to deal with the pain. That being said, since he never seemed out of control in a way that couldn't normally just be dismissed as Prince eccentricity (sometimes I wonder if that was his ruse--mystery and eccentricity to cover health and mental/emotional pain), they might have just figured he had a pain relief regiment that was under control until it became clear that he didn't have the control anymore..

Anyhow, I guess what I am trying to say is that chronic pain isn't just something that pops up when you hit your 50's and it can affect everything in your life, can make you lose patience with others when they complain or don't work as hard as you, it can add additional stress and anxiety and it can lead to more and more dependence. Sometimes, I wonder why Prince kept at the painful dancing for so long (didn't want to let fans down or be seen as weak,maybe?).

BTW, good for Lady Gaga (if its not an attention-getting ploy), a documentary like that one might be the equivalent of all those doc's on sports related concussions, leading to more compassion, sympathy and appreciation for the hard work rock stars/athletes do, and understanding about how chronic pain coupled with high expectation can impact one's mental and emotional state and led to drug dependence.

]

[Edited 9/19/17 16:25pm]

You Hit the Nail on the Head with the part in red above!

Astasheiks said:

luvsexy4all said:

Mumio said:

His body started to where down, look at the 2004 tour he said that was going to be the "last" for playing songs, look at his footwear during the shows, no more heels, look when the dancing changed, look at the injury in 1998 when his toe went under his foot as he described it. I mean the wear and tear everyone's body is different, he may have been dealing with this over years and it only gets worse. If he had back pain too, that is crippling, so to even get on a stage for 3 hours and play and move around with back and hip issues nightly, he needed something to numb this I am sure, surgeries often make things worse

luvsexy4all said:

laurarichardson said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

laurarichardson said:

Most people would take the pills and to hell with what anyone thinks about it or they would kill themselves.

Hip replacement surgery has a very high success rate in regards to quality of life and pain reduction, with lots of patients reverting to normal life, exercise and endurance. His problem must have been other than hips, as I can not imagine not having the full hip surgery, especially if you are as young as he was and living with intractable pain. If it was his hips why didn't he correct it and be done with it? It has been stated many times it was not against his religion, so I don't get it?

co-sign

Mumio said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

let it go

it wasn't just his hips. I agree.

laytonian said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Hip replacement surgery has a very high success rate in regards to quality of life and pain reduction, with lots of patients reverting to normal life, exercise and endurance. His problem must have been other than hips, as I can not imagine not having the full hip surgery, especially if you are as young as he was and living with intractable pain. If it was his hips why didn't he correct it and be done with it? It has been stated many times it was not against his religion, so I don't get it?

We know he had two procedures due to the coroner's release. He had a scar on his left hip and one on his lower right leg. His hip pain may have been alleviated with surgery but he still could have had pain in other areas that could not be replaced. Don't forget that he was very small. Not just in height but in his build. His bones looked tiny and he punished that little body for years. . I wore 3" heels for years and had to have Achilles tendon surgery. That required basically four months recovery and rehab then removal of hardware that meant another three months down, in a boot and in rehab. . We know there was no long-term downtime in his schedule for something like that, even though he had some sort of hip surgery in 2010. Although he did wear heels for awards shows late in life, he wore what looked orthopedic to me, however well disguised. Those fuzzy boots? Taking off his shoes and putting them on mid-show. That concerned me. . It wasn't just his hips. . [Edited 9/20/17 18:47pm]

Annoying psycho-analyzing is coming so those who hate this shit should ignore my post and anyone reading it should do so with a large grain of salt. Its theory..and it may seem like a tangent but I do think it is connected.

The way he punished his body for so long and didn't get proper treatment for his addictions might have been the result of an earlier quest for love/respect from others and a latter quest for penance.)

Its funny but I started to read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (because it was linked to anxiety disorder which is what I inititally looked up in reference to Prince) and I learned a lot . For one thing, people with this disorder are not necessarily evil (especially those on the lower end of the spectrum), although the behavior they exhibit can be evil.

For another thing, NPD is in many cases not about self love. It is actually often a ruse that is indicative of self loathing, shame, fragility and insecurity. People with this disorder are not really like Narcissus staring at his natural self in a lake (loving himself in his natural state.) Often they are extremely vulnerable people internally, very insecure, looking outward for self esteem [making themselves perfect so the rest of the world can love them], very self-protective and have abandonment issues galore (they can also suffer from depression, anxiety, suicide, and drug abuse) . They are more self-involved (in an almost self-defensive way) than self-loving. There are those (like Prince, I believe) who are capable of love, empathy, generosity, self-sacrifice and kindess that is truely geniune , but are too insecure to maintain relationships when their sense of fear/insecurity rears its head. I hate to use the word narcisist when talking about Prince because I do think ultimately he was relatively harmless to those not in denial themselves, I hate labels, and I hate that this disorder is often attributed to the worst of us (Saddam Hussein etc) and I do believe P [if he had it] was definitely on the lower end of the spectrum.

Artists (particularly writers) partake in exercises in empathy..this is their way to connect to others--its a self reflection that most narcissists don't have. Prince was a writer (in songs like Strange Relationship, he admits his culpability but doesn't do it to win back anyone necessarily but to just get it off his chest. Or some of the most self-shaming lyrics ever "there is lonely and there is how I feel right. Only Cain when he slayed his brother will ever come close to knowing how.") This artistry is Prince at his bravest and most admirable in a way. Yes, he broke hearts but his controlling nature was not so overpowering that people couldn't just leave him if they were strong enough to see past the talent and charm. In fact, his patterns were obvious to anyone with eye balls. If they took him on, they would have to know it would be a challenge and probably not for the long term. He wasn't in the shadows after all. He was not a sociopath or a wife beater or a particularly malicious person (even if he had his dickish, sneaky selfish ways) . Also, he had geniunely good traits that were not intended to manipulate (he could be quietly charitable, was quite gentle, even humble at times, encouraging, believed that God would hold him accountable for his actions, saw the goodness and potential in others, could put others above himself at times [his son, his fans, even his ungrateful family], and his sense of his own achievements was not too OTT like many narcissists--he worked hard to earn his fame [sometimes busting his ass for even the smallest of audiences] and did indirectly/directly admit that his ego needed sometimes to be put in check)

In many ways, artists are the most harmless of narcissists because they do have enough self-realization to empathize with humanity through their art; (there was a study in which regular folks and people the NPD were told to watch a video about abuse--at first the regular folks reacted with more empathy but when they were told in very specific terms to put themselves in the shoes of the victim in the video, the folks with NPD actually showed more signs of distress in their physicality than the regular folks..(elevated heart rate, increased breathing, neurons firing etc..) unfortunately, famous folks also have enablers who make it hard for them to find their way and their art can become a crutch (substituting for sustainable relationships)

Another interesting thing I read, even though, NPD is hard to cure because of the sense of denial most narcissists have, often what changes their condition is external trauma. P's suppposed change to a more humble and affable personality (still flawed,demanding and dating young folks but more accessible, on the up and up, and less manipulative/controlling) as he got older might be his NPD decreasing and slowly being replaced with a sense of humility/responsibility to others. It is possible that his child's death (along with his own body starting to break [chronic pain]) left him at first running into his worst NPD tendancies/impatience/denial only to be eventually replaced with guilt and even humility --made more potent with the death of his parents and the sense of community service advocated in church (the flipside being that this attempt at penance and humility might have made him vulnerable to manipulators, depression, and self medication.) If Prince had survived his addiction and had gotten real help, I think he would have become even more humane and connected to others and with a healthy sense of self love without NPD getting in the way. He was on his way in my opinion but the bumps in the road killed him (2 steps forward, one fatal step back). A story that Wendy told in an interview about the Purple Rain tour struck a nerve--Prince, after a day of grumpiness, once got super super humble and kind to everyone around him after he fell about 5 feet down in a bathtub on stage. Apparently prior to that incident, he had stated that he thought that something bad would happen to him to indicate when he was acting wrongly with others. He might have needed that rude awakening to realize that his issues didn't mean he was allowed to be a dick--to remind him to see past his needs.. -- the sad flipside to that coin is that the extreme opposite happens if you blame yourself for all the bad things that happened to you--it drains your sense of self worth. Its a very cumbersome vulnerable ego we are talking about here. )

]

[Edited 9/20/17 20:12pm]

[Edited 9/20/17 22:15pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I don't think Prince was sociopath. I haven't read that book. I want to add that some psychologists think NPD is a bullshit 'disorder' in of itself and that really the "narcissism" being witnessed is a symptom of other issues. I tend to think they are right. I think P wasn't a 'pure narcissist". I think his other issues made him appear and sometimes act that way. He worked too hard in an attempt to earn others respect and admiration and his "confidence" had too many conditions. He also could be quiet and extremely polite around others, letting others shine in his presense. They categorize narcissm into different levels and degree. There is one called compensory narcissism which Prince seemed to resemble at times.. Even he said that his flashy clothes were to compensate for the way he felt picked on as a kid. It is mild compared to others.

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Annoying psycho-analyzing is coming so those who hate this shit should ignore my post and anyone reading it should do so with a large grain of salt. Its theory..and it may seem like a tangent but I do think it is connected.

The way he punished his body for so long and didn't get proper treatment for his addictions might have been the result of an earlier quest for love/respect from others and a latter quest for penance.)

Its funny but I started to read about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (because it was linked to anxiety disorder which is what I inititally looked up in reference to Prince) and I learned a lot . For one thing, people with this disorder are not necessarily evil (especially those on the lower end of the spectrum), although the behavior they exhibit can be evil.

For another thing, NPD is not about self love. It is actually a ruse. It is about self loathing, shame, fragility and insecurity. People with this disorder are not like Narcissus staring at his natural self in a lake (loving himself in his natural state.) They are extremely vulnerable people internally, very insecure, looking outward for self esteem [making themselves perfect so the rest of the world can love them], very self-protective and have abandonment issues galore (they can also suffer from depression, anxiety, suicide, and drug abuse) . They are more self-involved (in an almost self-defensive way) than self-loving. There are those (like Prince, I believe) who are capable of love, empathy, generosity, self-sacrifice and kindess that is truely geniune , but are too insecure to maintain relationships when their sense of fear/insecurity rears its head. I hate to use the word narcisist when talking about Prince because I do think ultimately he was harmless to those not in denial themselves, I hate labels, and I hate that this disorder is often attributed to the worst of us (Saddam Hussein etc) and I do believe P [if he had it] was definitely on the lower end of the spectrum.

Artists (particularly writers) partake in exercises in empathy..this is their way to connect to others--its a self reflection that most narcissists don't have. Prince was a writer (in songs like Strange Relationship, he admits his culpability but doesn't do it to win back anyone necessarily but to just get it off his chest.) This artistry is Prince at his bravest and most admirable in a way. Yes, he broke hearts but his controlling nature was not so overpowering that people couldn't just leave him if they were strong enough to see past the talent and charm. In fact, his patterns were obvious to anyone with eye balls. If they took him on, they would have to know it would be a challenge and probably not for the long term. He wasn't in the shadows after all. He was not a sociopath or a wife beater or a particularly malicious person (even if he had his dickish, selfish ways) . Also, he had geniunely good traits that were not intended to manipulate (he could be quietly charitable, was quite gentle, even humble at times, encouraging, believed that God would hold him accountable for his actions, saw the goodness and potential in others, could put others above himself at times [his son, his fans, even his ungrateful family], and his sense of his own achievements was not too OTT like many narcissists--he worked hard to earn his fame [sometimes busting his ass for even the smallest of audiences] and did indirectly/directly admit that his ego needed sometimes to be put in check)

In many ways, artists are the most harmless of narcissists because they do have enough self-realization to empathize with humanity through their art; (there was a study in which regular folks and people the NPD were told to watch a video about abuse--when they were asked to put themselves in the shoes of the victim in the video, the folks with NPD actually showed more signs of distress in their physicality than the regular folks..(elevated heart rate, increased breathing, neurons firing etc..) unfortunately, famous folks also have enablers who make it hard for them to find their way and their art can become a crutch (substituting for sustainable relationships)

Another interesting thing I read, even though, NPD is hard to cure because of the sense of denial most narcissists have, often what changes their condition is external trauma. P's suppposed change to a more humble and affable personality (still flawed and dating young folks but more accessible and less manipulative/controlling) as he got older might be his NPD decreasing and slowly being replaced with a sense of humility/responsibility to others. It is possible that his child's death left him at first running into his worst NPD tendancies only to be replaced with guilt and even humility --made more potent with the death of his parents and the sense of community service advocated in church (the flipside being that this attempt at penance and humility might have made him vulnerable to manipulators, depression, and self medication.) If Prince had survived his addiction, I think he would have become even more humane and connected to others and with a healthy sense of self love without NPD getting in the way. He was on his way in my opinion but the bumps in the road killed him (2 steps forward, one step back). A story that Wendy told in an interview about the Purple Rain tour struck a nerve--Prince, after a day of grumpiness, once got super super humble and kind to everyone around him after he fell about 5 feet down in a bathtub on stage. Apparently prior to that incident, he had stated that he thought that something bad would happen to him to indicate when he was acting wrongly with others. He might have needed that rude awakening to realize that his issues didn't mean he was allowed to be a dick. -- the sad flipside to that coin is that the extreme opposite happens if you blame yourself for all the bad things that happened to you. Its a very cumbersome vulnerable ego we are talking about here. )

[Edited 9/20/17 19:42pm]

[Edited 9/20/17 19:59pm]

Wow thx for all that I find personality stuff fascinating. Interesting theory Thx for sharing. Have you read "the sociopath next door?" Another facinating book.

[Edited 9/20/17 20:59pm]

[Edited 9/20/17 21:01pm]

[Edited 9/20/17 21:04pm]

luvsexy4all said:

i gots chronic ass pain cause these threads ....

And grammar issues.

purplerabbithole said:

I don't think Prince was sociopath. I haven't read that book. I want to add that some psychologists think NPD is a bullshit 'disorder' in of itself and that really the "narcissism" being witnessed is a symptom of other issues. I tend to think they are right. I think P wasn't a 'pure narcissist". I think his other issues made him appear and sometimes act that way. He worked too hard in an attempt to earn others respect and admiration and his "confidence" had too many conditions. He also could be quiet and extremely polite around others, letting others shine in his presense. They categorize narcissm into different levels and degree. There is one called compensory narcissism which Prince seemed to resemble at times.. Even he said that his flashy clothes were to compensate for the way he felt picked on as a kid. It is mild compared to others.

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said: Wow thx for all that I find personality stuff fascinating. Interesting theory Thx for sharing. Have you read "the sociopath next door?" Another facinating book.

[Edited 9/20/17 20:59pm]

[Edited 9/20/17 21:01pm]

[Edited 9/20/17 21:04pm]

I think it initially came down to the highlighted sentence above. And then there was no stopping it. He worked very hard to be at the amazing level he was and no way he was going to expose his frailty/dependency/health issues/personal problems/chronic pain to the world.

purplerabbithole said:

MMJas said:

Militant said:

We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.

i recall us discussing hip replacements way back in 2005, it was all just rumours as far as we knew though. We all were kept in the dark pretty much. There were a couple rumours here and there which you never know how seriously to take. the one around 2010 with the associate saying he was taking pills like m and m's was worrying because it kind of rang true but without being there, none of us really knew.

I think what some people don't realize is that damage can become obvious after a long hibernation period. It's like with boxers, I've seen a million boxers speak fine right after retirement and have all kinds of problems by their late 40's. Same for any athletic endeavor of which dancing could be called. Football players who've never had a back ache have suddenly developed arthritic backs in their forties, the scary thing is sometimes, you don't realize how much damage you are doing until you're old. With pro athletes they take a gamble, and it really is a gamble and a faustian bargain because no one really knows how things will turn out 10-20-30 years later. As for Prince, he was so demanding of himself and if the rumors were true, he was told to stop dancing by a doctor after breaking his ankle yet there he was all the way up, practically to the end, dancing. Why? who knows, dancing really isn't that essential to musical artistry, in fact, lots of great musicians don't dance at all. I could have done without it as a fan, we saw what he could do and how good he was, he didn't need to keep doing splits.

PeteSilas said:

purplefam99 said:

PeteSilas said:

I think what some people don't realize is that damage can become obvious after a long hibernation period. It's like with boxers, I've seen a million boxers speak fine right after retirement and have all kinds of problems by their late 40's. Same for any athletic endeavor of which dancing could be called. Football players who've never had a back ache have suddenly developed arthritic backs in their forties, the scary thing is sometimes, you don't realize how much damage you are doing until you're old. With pro athletes they take a gamble, and it really is a gamble and a faustian bargain because no one really knows how things will turn out 10-20-30 years later. As for Prince, he was so demanding of himself and if the rumors were true, he was told to stop dancing by a doctor after breaking his ankle yet there he was all the way up, practically to the end, dancing. Why? who knows, dancing really isn't that essential to musical artistry, in fact, lots of great musicians don't dance at all. I could have done without it as a fan, we saw what he could do and how good he was, he didn't need to keep doing splits.

I understand that you could have done without it, but he could not. Dance/movement are incredible forces and dance sometimes gets relagated to the background as secondary. Prince clearly felt it was important and fed his soul. Movement is our first connection to music as infants and should not be discounted as a force that guided him. You have spoken of your Native American heritage. I'm sure you get that. Pete you are correct he didn't need to keep doing those splits

I can only speak for myself i guess, i've always been smart, or tried to be smart about what i do with my body. As a longtime martial artist I always thought about things before i did them and even so, i still have pains and aches, but some of the guys my age are in and out of surgery for shoulders, hip replacements etc.., I love training to this day but if i thought i was doing serious damage, i'd adjust my workouts around it so it wouldn't be as serious. A lot of it's just ego, especially with the great championship calibre guys, they never quit when they should cannot accept that they are old and so they take damage, essentially for no gain. Ali could have retired in 75 and he may have been fine, instead he squeezed every ounce out of his body and lived a lot of years diminished because of it. Personally, i can't relate to that but then, I did always have a lot of self love.

MMJas said:

luvsexy4all said:

i gots chronic ass pain cause these threads ....

And grammar issues.

damn u peopel..that was intentional.....how amny threads about pain will there be????