Purplestar88 said:

I avoid cornball conspiracies unless I have no choice. The truth is a few informed people on this site have stated very clearly that opiod addiction doesn't necessarily manifest itself in falling down drunk loopy behavior. Musicians in awe of Prince, who don't know what he was like before working with him and who barely spoke with him intimately due to the attention being on the task at hand [ie music], are not necessarily going to pick up on the small things Jill Jones might have seen. These musicians need to either put up or shut up. In other words, if they definitely think P was murdered or sick, they need to raise a stink, make it adamentedly clear, call for justice and answers.. If they don't know for sure, they need state implicitly "that as far as I know from the limited time I spent with him, he didn't appear to be under the influence". Or if they did see him loopy, they need to say that they suspected drug use but didn't know him well enough to know how to broach the subject. I don't think it is a conspiracy as much as I think that they are too interested in the work they did with P getting attention to really deal with the subject of his drug usage in a upfront way. Its not a conspiracy as much as it is just self interest motivating them to take the emphasis off drugs and/or foul play (after mentioning it in the first place) and get it back to the music they are trying to get exposed. It comes off like they are being wishy washy and manipulative to get some attention. Its like saying "he's no drug addict--that is all I am saying, but since I really can't say much about it, here's the brilliant contributions I did to his work."

[Edited 10/6/17 6:29am]

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I never said he wasn't recording new music all the way through. It wouldn't surprise me if he had recorded a new song in his very last week. Furthermore, I'd personally be disappointed if he only recorded 10 albums between 2010-2014. He was said by Susan Rogers to have recorded an album a week during the 80s. All that said, I would be absolutely amazed if he discovered a new sound Jan' 16 onwards, nor likely would he have done at any point- had he lived. He was just way way too prolific not to have covered all the ground by the age of 57.

--I provide the link to the Michael B Nelson interview he seems to think Prince was working on some incredible stuff and does not believe he was a drug addict. He lasted worked with him on January. Can none of you see s pattern about what was going on before January and after?

That interview was really Michael B Nelson referencing the new 'minneapolis sound', as Prince termed it. The main song in question was Baltimore where the string part was transposed to guitar solo. And that song was completed well before Jan '16. While it's possible, that from recording sessions for Hit N Run 2 through to April '16, P was always on the top of his game creating new genre material, it is unlikely. Particularly considering he was ill those last few months.

If I remember correctly, Michael B Nelson wasn't really saying what P would be further capable of had he lived, more the case that he'd already explored this new sound.

Militant said:

We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.

Do you think being JW had something to do with not wanting to have surgeries? Just something I wonder about at times...

purplerabbithole said:

I have to say something about those associates who non-challantly contend that Prince was no drug addict. Unless they are out there demanding more attention be paid to his 'murder' or unless they are strongly stating that they think it was a suicide/illness, I don't buy what they are selling.. they either don't know one way or another or they know absolutely that he was taking drugs and they turned a blind eye at the time --nbut after he died, they went along with the old narrative that he was clean living because they themselves do not want to look like enablers or indifferent employees. Its only a handful of later employees who state that he was no drug addict and then they just drop it like that with no outrage, explanation. Where are the demands for justice if they really believe he was a victim of foul play? Where is the pity if they thought he was sick or suicical?

[Edited 10/6/17 3:34am]

i think if you are taking an RX then your probably aren't going to throw to many stones your boss's direction. I am pretty sure he wasn't the only person in PP using perscritive medications. How are

you gonna help when your doing it too. i have no one in particular in mind when i say the former

it just the odds are P wasn't the only one using pharmacueticals legal or otherwise. my feeling.

herb4 said:

God this thread. What's happened to this place?

it is staying on topic.

I didn't know what brought this discussion back up until I saw YouTube and these bootleg documentaries that have appeared. Both looked like like they were produced by British broadcasting.

The narratives were 1. Prince was depressed and he killed himself. 2. Prince was self destructive and was using drugs.

Both of these shows had the same people on them giving interviews and people who have not been around Prince in twenty/thirty years.

I have a huge problem with these shows because both lead the viewer to believe that Prince was a long time user of Fentanyl and paint the man as a drug user and sullen and unhappy. That is not the case.

There are several anomilies that have occurred and I'm not rehashing but it is now apparent that some of you either produced this garbage or you work with those who did.

Someone posted a few threads up about the hip issues.

Yes it was posted here about him using pain killers . I have not disputed this one bit. The problem is when folks equate Percocet with Fentanyl. The legal stuff is not what killed him.

Someone got illegal counterfeit pills for Prince with his knowledge or without his knowledge. This is the issue at hand. I am of the belief that he did not know and that the pills that killed him was made for him for the purpose of killing him. I'm off to Chicago for the rest of this story.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Seahorsie said:

muleFunk said:

laurarichardson said:

muleFunk said:

I didn't know what brought this discussion back up until I saw YouTube and these bootleg documentaries that have appeared. Both looked like like they were produced by British broadcasting.

The narratives were 1. Prince was depressed and he killed himself. 2. Prince was self destructive and was using drugs.

Both of these shows had the same people on them giving interviews and people who have not been around Prince in twenty/thirty years.

I have a huge problem with these shows because both lead the viewer to believe that Prince was a long time user of Fentanyl and paint the man as a drug user and sullen and unhappy. That is not the case.

There are several anomilies that have occurred and I'm not rehashing but it is now apparent that some of you either produced this garbage or you work with those who did.

Well the people in the docs are questionable to me. They had not been around him in years and there is a reason he is being portrayed in the manner that he is and people who say different are not asked or discounted. Not one piece of evidence exsist to say he was a life long drug user.

Not one.

Those documentaries are the sickest thing I've seen in years.

muleFunk said:

laurarichardson said:

muleFunk said: Well the people in the docs are questionable to me. They had not been around him in years and there is a reason he is being portrayed in the manner that he is and people who say different are not asked or discounted. Not one piece of evidence exsist to say he was a life long drug user.

Not one.

Those documentaries are the sickest thing I've seen in years.

Please name them here.

Mumio said:

muleFunk said:

Not one.

Those documentaries are the sickest thing I've seen in years.

Please name them here.

One is called A Purple Reign and the other is just Purple Reign.

They are both on YouTube.

muleFunk said:

Mumio said:

Please name them here.

One is called A Purple Reign and the other is just Purple Reign.

They are both on YouTube.

I think there's some confusion here. If you're referring to the one with Owen Husney and Chris Moon interventions, and the actor impersonating Prince, then it's the Reelz "When Doves Cry".

Which is, apart from having fair points about Prince's catholic upbringing, a pathetic sensationalist portrait.

bonatoc said:

muleFunk said:

One is called A Purple Reign and the other is just Purple Reign.

They are both on YouTube.

I think there's some confusion here. If you're referring to the one with Owen Husney and Chris Moon interventions, and the actor impersonating Prince, then it's the Reelz "When Doves Cry".

Which is, apart from having fair points about Prince's catholic upbringing, a pathetic sensationalist portrait.

MuleFunk, could you please clarify based on what bonatoc has said here?

The ones that I have seen are on YouTube and it does have Moon and Husney. Pepe Willie and the Leeds brothers are in one as well.

bonatoc said:

muleFunk said:

One is called A Purple Reign and the other is just Purple Reign.

They are both on YouTube.

I think there's some confusion here. If you're referring to the one with Owen Husney and Chris Moon interventions, and the actor impersonating Prince, then it's the Reelz "When Doves Cry".

Which is, apart from having fair points about Prince's catholic upbringing, a pathetic sensationalist portrait.

Except Prince was brought up Seventh Day Adventist.

I agree it was pathetic.

[Edited 10/8/17 5:58am]

OperatingThetan said:

Prince's level of achievement and prolific nature rule him out as being a long-term drug/opiod addict in my opinion.

There's no evidence of a change until 2015 at the earliest, with a major situation developing early 2016. If Prince had been using opioids in an irresponsible way for many years, he'd have likely experienced overdoses much earlier. That the two overdoses occured during the last two weeks of his life indicates a crisis occuring then, not earlier.

The nature of his live performances didn't change until the last few months of his life either.

Again, I'm not stating he wasn't medicating for pain earlier, but that there is no evidence that his dependency, dose or condition was life threatening or limiting until the last few months of his life. Something changed.

Heck, I'd go as far as "the last few hours". There is nothing in the last Atlanta show, apart maybe from some full chords on the keyboard that may conceal a physical difficulty to make arpeggios and other musical flourishes, that sounds under the influence.

Yes, there is the acquired tolerance phenomenon, but when you reach a certain point, inevitably reasoning starts to fail, not to mention physical capacities. So either Prince was using his medications responsibly up until the pharmaceutical industry decided it wanted its customers hooked for good, and/or the black market took notice of how easy a drug it was to sell, or Prince was some kind of superhuman that was able to function no matter how much chemistry he would ingest, with just a couple Doritos as his daily lunch.

Seeking for medical help near the end (the planned appointment) is reassuring about his mental abilities: he knew he was in trouble with that shit, so maybe we can assume he was still somewhat in control, or at least not numb enough to realize this shit was taking him down and he had to act accordingly.

For all his exceptional feats, it is heartwrenching to think he was no different than your average (if such a thing exists) opiods epidemy victim.
As for the calendar of events, If you consider theses stats, taken from Wikipedia on the Opioid Epidemy, there is clearly something happening from 2013 and on.




As The Guardian states in this article:

"Fentanyl presents a lucrative business opportunity for drug traffickers because it is incredibly powerful in small amounts and is easy to produce."
It's mostly about miniaturization: it's still heroin, so you're pretty sure your customer will be there next week asking for more (up until s.he's not), but it's so discreet in its packaging that you can carry just a handful of it worth thousands of dollars.

Good luck to the Police to get their hands on something so small.
And if you're searched, you just have to store the pills in some other box: visually, to the non-expert, what differenciates a pill from another?
What average Joe can tell you if a pill is for digestive problems, or is a lethal, hyper-concentrated morphin bomb? The first thing a crime organization would do is make sure their Fentanyl comes in all shapes and colours, so when the Forces are briefed about recognizing a specific kind of pill, the ones on the streets already look like something else.

Prince certainly wasn't your average Joe, but even he did not have the powers to tell a pill from another.

Meanwhile, it's not getting better. And we live in a world where social consciousness is now so low, that no one from the Pharma industry is in jail: no one seems to care. "Most people become addicted to opioids after receiving the drugs for a medical condition, said Dr. Scott Gottlieb, commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. In response, the agency has taken steps in recent months to better educate medical providers on the risks and the benefits of prescribing opioids, he said." Ooooh, such response!

I mean, seriously: "Dr. Collins of the National Institutes of Health said more emphasis must be placed on alternative treatments, such as acupuncture, which might be effective in treating pain and would keep people from getting addicted to drugs."

Really? Is that the only reaction they're capable of? But again, in a world where russian social networks bots made a dangerous clown (seemingly) in charge of the Western World, not so surprising. The Second Coming? If only.

[Edited 10/8/17 12:12pm]

bonatoc said:

muleFunk said:

The ones that I have seen are on YouTube and it does have Moon and Husney. Pepe Willie and the Leeds brothers are in one as well.

Thank you

bonatoc said:

OperatingThetan said:

Prince's level of achievement and prolific nature rule him out as being a long-term drug/opiod addict in my opinion.

There's no evidence of a change until 2015 at the earliest, with a major situation developing early 2016. If Prince had been using opioids in an irresponsible way for many years, he'd have likely experienced overdoses much earlier. That the two overdoses occured during the last two weeks of his life indicates a crisis occuring then, not earlier.

The nature of his live performances didn't change until the last few months of his life either.

Again, I'm not stating he wasn't medicating for pain earlier, but that there is no evidence that his dependency, dose or condition was life threatening or limiting until the last few months of his life. Something changed.

Heck, I'd go as far as "the last few hours". There is nothing in the last Atlanta show, apart maybe from some full chords on the keyboard that may conceal a physical difficulty to make arpeggios and other musical flourishes, that sounds under the influence.

Yes, there is the acquired tolerance phenomenon, but when you reach a certain point, inevitably reasoning starts to fail, not to mention physical capacities. So either Prince was using his medications responsibly up until the pharmaceutical industry decided it wanted its customers hooked for good, and/or the black market took notice of how easy a drug it was to sell, or Prince was some kind of superhuman that was able to function no matter how much chemistry he would ingest, with just a couple Doritos as his daily lunch.

Seeking for medical help near the end (the planned appointment) is reassuring about his mental abilities: he knew he was in trouble with that shit, so maybe we can assume he was still somewhat in control, or at least not numb enough to realize this shit was taking him down and he had to act accordingly.

1) Possibly. Don't forget though P ate very light. He would not have been able to deal with a long term drug problem, whilst eating heavy. Both mess up your hormones, and doing both together would have resulted in calamity a long time ago, nevermind shitting on his genius.

2) This is conjecture assumed as fact. We have no proof whatsoever who booked that appointment. Allegedly, it was someone very close to him, and we don't even know if P consented. He could actually have been against the idea.

herb4 said:

God this thread. What's happened to this place?

Well someone (and I won't mention names) was getting off on their old argument "Are you saying now Prince was some high-off-his-ass-average-junkie?" question.

muleFunk said:

I didn't know what brought this discussion back up until I saw YouTube and these bootleg documentaries that have appeared. Both looked like like they were produced by British broadcasting.

The narratives were 1. Prince was depressed and he killed himself. 2. Prince was self destructive and was using drugs.

Both of these shows had the same people on them giving interviews and people who have not been around Prince in twenty/thirty years.

I have a huge problem with these shows because both lead the viewer to believe that Prince was a long time user of Fentanyl and paint the man as a drug user and sullen and unhappy. That is not the case.

There are several anomilies that have occurred and I'm not rehashing but

it is now apparent that some of you either produced this garbage or you work with those who did.

Of course! And good luck on your Chicago mission... Remember... missing things are missing - find them!

fortuneandserendipity said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

1) Possibly. Don't forget though P ate very light. He would not have been able to deal with a long term drug problem, whilst eating heavy. Both mess up your hormones, and doing both together would have resulted in calamity a long time ago, nevermind shitting on his genius.

2) This is conjecture assumed as fact. We have no proof whatsoever who booked that appointment. Allegedly, it was someone very close to him, and we don't even know if P consented. He could actually have been against the idea.

Are you implying drugs are the reason he ate light? Did you not notice that his sibs from his mother's side are overweight? Don't you think he might have been concerned about his weight? At this point I am not sure how anyone could believe Prince was working at the level that he was for almost 40 years high out of his ass. Everyone who worked for him said he out worked them and many people quit for that reason. I know a whole segment of society wants to believe that drugs give people some super human albilities but they do not. If he was abusing these meds for 20 years he would not have been able to work at the pace that he was working in fact I am sure at some point he would have stopped working all together. There is no evidence of his work load slowing down.

yes i am pretty sure he ate light cause he knew his genetic reality if he didn't. nothing wrong

with curves fyi, he just didn't want any "extra" ones. i will say i liked him with his 70-80 weight.

the rest was too svelte for me.

purplefam99 said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said: Are you implying drugs are the reason he ate light? Did you not notice that his sibs from his mother's side are overweight? Don't you think he might have been concerned about his weight? At this point I am not sure how anyone could believe Prince was working at the level that he was for almost 40 years high out of his ass. Everyone who worked for him said he out worked them and many people quit for that reason. I know a whole segment of society wants to believe that drugs give people some super human albilities but they do not. If he was abusing these meds for 20 years he would not have been able to work at the pace that he was working in fact I am sure at some point he would have stopped working all together. There is no evidence of his work load slowing down.

yes i am pretty sure he ate light cause he knew his genetic reality if he didn't. nothing wrong

with curves fyi, he just didn't want any "extra" ones. i will say i liked him with his 70-80 weight.

the rest was too svelte for me.

He looked good up until just a few years ago. There was a pic of his from one of his Madison Square Garden shows were he had his shirt open and he had some ripped abs.

I cannot understand how anyone could think a I guy could lose his muscle definition from pain pills?

laurarichardson said: