SimonCharles said:

I adore this song, I adore the performance in concert, and I adore the fact they tried to recapture this performance in the video. Is it, however, the moment when Prince jumped the shark? I ask because, there in the background, in a parody of their balcony routine glimpsed in Purple Rain, are the Game Boyz...and that, arguably, was the end of Prince creating trends, it was the moment Prince chased trends.

Discuss.

The video was filmed at Paisley in May 1988 - exactly 2 months before the tour opened in Paris on July 8th, so not sure how you came to that conclusion here and elsewhere on this thread - unless your point here is about the Game Boyz recreating their PR balcony performance? If so, this point is lost due to its placement in the paragraph, as the context it infers here is that this video was a failed recreation by Prince of the live tour performance.

As for the GameBoyz, I thought they were great foils on the Nude tour - they worked within the format of the show and they weren't obtrusive. But after that tour their moment vanished fast and they were more an annoyance than anything else imho.

If you're looking for a moment when Prince may have "jumped the shark", or at least approached the ramp, I would suggest that the rapping in "Graffiti Bridge" is when it happened.

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On "The Black Album", the song "Dead On It" was his criticism of rap, denigrating the genre as being something that one didn't need talent to do. Then 2 1/2 years later, he's lacing his music with actual rapping.

Xibalba said:

SimonCharles said:

I adore this song, I adore the performance in concert, and I adore the fact they tried to recapture this performance in the video. Is it, however, the moment when Prince jumped the shark? I ask because, there in the background, in a parody of their balcony routine glimpsed in Purple Rain, are the Game Boyz...and that, arguably, was the end of Prince creating trends, it was the moment Prince chased trends.

Discuss.

The video was filmed at Paisley in May 1988 - exactly 2 months before the tour opened in Paris on July 8th, so not sure how you came to that conclusion here and elsewhere on this thread - unless your point here is about the Game Boyz recreating their PR balcony performance? If so, this point is lost due to its placement in the paragraph, as the context it infers here is that this video was a failed recreation by Prince of the live tour performance.

As for the GameBoyz, I thought they were great foils on the Nude tour - they worked within the format of the show and they weren't obtrusive. But after that tour their moment vanished fast and they were more an annoyance than anything else imho.

My terrible bad. Excuse me. Fair point. I would contend, however, it is an attempt to capture the live performance of the song as it would have been rehearsed and performed and thought an idea worthy enough to put together as the video for the single. That said, you're right that it recontextualises the use of the Game Boyz in this instance. And, perhaps, makes the decision not to include them in the live show an affirmation of Prince's concept for Lovesexy as a whole and their appearance here as throwaway. If that's the case, I wonder why have them there at all.

NouveauDance said:

I don't really think it's a jump the shark moment, but I've always found the direction to be a bit flat, it has no energy to it. Not that Glam Slam is particularly a stomper, but the video is pretty low energy except the last third. I like the blindfold idea, Cat is cool. That's about it really. They could've done a lot more with it.

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Having Eric and Atlanta on violins is dumb, but I get the reasoning behind it - no horns and he wanted the whole band in the video. iirc, he did a similar thing with Eric in the Screams of Passion video. The Gameboyz were dorky any way you look at it, the spandex workout rompers here, nah! And we don't see enough Boni!

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I love the song, but it was a poor single choice and its chart performance reflects fairly that I think.

Fair point well made about Eric and Atlanta and the strings and the lack of Boni. It was an odd choice for a single, yes; though, like you, I adore the song itself.

SimonCharles said:

1725topp said:

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The font change happens to me as well sometimes. I don't know why it happens. I just learned to save and copy as I go so that when it happens I can just paste my original comments without having to retype them.

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As for the dancing of The Gam Boyz and if it fits with the Lovesexy aesthetic/theme, I guess it depends upon how one interprets/perceives that aesthetic/theme. So, comparing what you said regarding Cat, Boni, and Shelia's use of hip hop moves to The Game Boyz's use of hip hop moves, the only difference I see is the masculinity of The Game Boyz working in a way that may be too "aggressive," for lack of a better term, depending on how one interprets the spiritual theme/aesthetic of Lovesexy. That is--spirituality, as an aesthetic, tends to have--and I'm being stereotypical to make a point--a more free-flowing less rigid range of motion that symbolizes freeing oneself from physical confines whereas hip hop dance is generally aggressive with moves of "popping" and "locking" that connote a more exclamatory and masculine feel. (That does not mean that women cannot master hip hop dance, but it means that aggression, in Western terms, is often associated with masculinity, which is rarely associated with spirituality. In Western terms, to become more spiritual often means to become less aggressive, which means to become less masculine, again, speaking in a stereotypical Westernized term.) So, that may be what you are sensing/interpreting from The Game Boyz--that their movement is too aggressive and rigid for what you perceive as the more liquid or free-flowing spiritual aesthetic of Lovesexy. However, I would argue that Prince is, once again, being his princely self by showing that spirituality and spiritual expression come in many forms, making The Game Boyz a "necessary" aspect to the ultimate message he wants to articulate, which is that connection to God is a liberating act that allows anyone to express themselves in anyway. As such, the inclusion of The Game Boyz is par for the course or as typical for Prince as his "Uptown" utopian ideology of "Black, White, Puerto Rican, everybody just a freakin'." So, not to include The Game Boyz would be Prince not including every aspect of himself--which includes that aspect which is connected to what's hip in black culture at the time and always finding a way to amalgamate it with his other influences.

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In a similar way, the big drum beat and pounding bass of "Glam Slam" represents Prince's soul and funk roots whereas the use of strings atop the drum and bass provide the flowery free-flowing whimsical quality generally associated with spirituality. Then, of course, the lyrical discussion of the intersection of the physical and spiritual ties it all together. Thus, The Game Boyz seem to serve as a necessary role/symbolism about the body/physical being liberated. They are the body, the physical, the big pounding beat of the drum and bass, and Shelia, Boni, and Cat are the soul, the spiritual, the free-flowing movement of the strings and keyboards. (The electricty of the guitar connects these two elements.) And, it is that combination/intersection that is being praised/celebrated in "Glam Slam"--the notion that the body can be a gateway to the spiritual and that the spiritual can be manifest in the physical. Without The Game Boyz the physical has no symbolic representation to balance the spiritual representation of Shelia, Boni, and Cat. And, of course, Prince—through his androgyny—becomes/symbolizes the completed state of spiritual enlightenment in which the body and soul as well as the male and female become one, represented by the lovers of the song becoming one. “This thing we got it’s alive; it seems to transcend the physical.” Without The Game Boyz where is the representation of the physical that must be transcended or blended with the spiritual to complete the spiritual enlightenment?

That is beautifully put. Thank you for taking the time to put your argument so eloquently and convincingly. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree but it has been a pleasure to read your words and hear you engage with this discussion.

I'm going to have to go away and have a think about how to express my opinion as descriptively...I don't think I have properly explained myself.

I appreciate your ideas and considerate/thoughtful tone as well. It's always nice to exchange differing ideas about Prince with someone without it devolving into name calling. Thanks for the discussion.

Agreed.

The visuals are lovely.

The tune is meh...

Simple.

000000 said:

Prince didn't jump the shark or follow trends. I'm still amazed by the PP output the year before Lovesexy was released... Crazy!

• 1987: Prince: Sign "☮" the Times album & movie

• 1987: Madhouse: 8
• 1987: Sheila E.: Sheila E.
• 1987: Jill Jones: Jill Jones
• 1987: Taja Sevelle: Taja Sevelle §
• 1987: Madhouse: 16

to follow up 1987 with Lovesexy was sheer brilliance.

[Edited 8/18/17 18:43pm]

Prince only contributed 5 songs to Sheila E. and 2 to Taja Sevelle. Great tracks, mind you, but he had nothing to do (as far as we know) with the rest of those records.

I adore the Lovesexy musicvideos... wow excellent stuff...

1988, those were the days......

Lovesexy is absolute brilliant... all those different layers in the music, and lots of screaming guitars..

Great stuff, indeed...

datdude said:

I think the OP is off base. Over time the GB have not been associated with the legacy of Lovesexy, it's success or 'failure' (stateside says some). Its a detail only diehards are even aware of. The gun mic and Tony M are examples of where he tried too hard to connect wth the hip hop aesthetic that was expanding within pop culture and I wouldn't even characterize that as trend chasing, but instead a newfound respect that led him to embrace the genre, with mixed (mostly bad) results. IF the MTV performance was indeed self parody, it was lost in the masses and definitely bit him in the ass. Certain friends constantly referenced it in our music debates as a (irrelevant) means of discrediting him

It's not that they are associated with Lovesexy, it's the moment when you think "ah, ok, something's not right here." That realisation.

Perhaps it's a hindsight thing, knowing what happened next, and I've revising my view, distorted by Game Boyz glasses... It's interesting you mention a "new found respect" in your comment. To my eyes, the Game Boyz represent all that was hackneyed about rap and hip-hop and the exact charateristics Prince mocked on The Black Album. There doesn't appear to be much "affection" in the manner of the Game Boyz - not to these eyes, anyway.

SimonCharles said:

datdude said:

I think the OP is off base. Over time the GB have not been associated with the legacy of Lovesexy, it's success or 'failure' (stateside says some). Its a detail only diehards are even aware of. The gun mic and Tony M are examples of where he tried too hard to connect wth the hip hop aesthetic that was expanding within pop culture and I wouldn't even characterize that as trend chasing, but instead a newfound respect that led him to embrace the genre, with mixed (mostly bad) results. IF the MTV performance was indeed self parody, it was lost in the masses and definitely bit him in the ass. Certain friends constantly referenced it in our music debates as a (irrelevant) means of discrediting him

It's not that they are associated with Lovesexy, it's the moment when you think "ah, ok, something's not right here." That realisation.

Perhaps it's a hindsight thing, knowing what happened next, and I've revising my view, distorted by Game Boyz glasses... It's interesting you mention a "new found respect" in your comment. To my eyes, the Game Boyz represent all that was hackneyed about rap and hip-hop and the exact charateristics Prince mocked on The Black Album. There doesn't appear to be much "affection" in the manner of the Game Boyz - not to these eyes, anyway.

Actually the type of rap the Game Boyz represented was called entertaining which is the exact opposite of what we have in rap today.

laurarichardson said:

SimonCharles said:

It's not that they are associated with Lovesexy, it's the moment when you think "ah, ok, something's not right here." That realisation.

Perhaps it's a hindsight thing, knowing what happened next, and I've revising my view, distorted by Game Boyz glasses... It's interesting you mention a "new found respect" in your comment. To my eyes, the Game Boyz represent all that was hackneyed about rap and hip-hop and the exact charateristics Prince mocked on The Black Album. There doesn't appear to be much "affection" in the manner of the Game Boyz - not to these eyes, anyway.

Actually the type of rap the Game Boyz represented was called entertaining which is the exact opposite of what we have in rap today.

How do you mean?