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Thread started 08/03/17 9:14am

spookyelectric
23

Percentage Of What's Been Leaked Vs. What Remains Uncirculated In The Vault

Strictly theorization for the sake of it, nothing more. My b.s. guess would be 70% of the vault's contents have been leaked over the years. There's just so much already out there. I'm hope I'm wrong. It would be a shame to have such secure measures taken to protect the vault's contents only to have whatever was in there be somehow circulated.

I often wonder, especially within the last couple of years of his life, if he himself leaked stuff for the diehards to enjoy. If he was so anti-contract, anti-will and all that, what difference would it be to him to let some of the vault's contents leak, especially if he wasn't much long for the world?

More and more you hear of better sourced stuff circulating out there. Where is it all coming from? Makes you wonder. It's the source quality of stuff that seems to be more evident in recent years. Thoughts?

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Reply #1 posted 08/03/17 9:42am

leecaldon

spookyelectric23 said:

Strictly theorization for the sake of it, nothing more. My b.s. guess would be 70% of the vault's contents have been leaked over the years. There's just so much already out there. I'm hope I'm wrong. It would be a shame to have such secure measures taken to protect the vault's contents only to have whatever was in there be somehow circulated.

I often wonder, especially within the last couple of years of his life, if he himself leaked stuff for the diehards to enjoy. If he was so anti-contract, anti-will and all that, what difference would it be to him to let some of the vault's contents leak, especially if he wasn't much long for the world?

More and more you hear of better sourced stuff circulating out there. Where is it all coming from? Makes you wonder. It's the source quality of stuff that seems to be more evident in recent years. Thoughts?

I suspect you are way, way out. When we hear of all the stuff that he Brent Fischer says he and his father added strings that wasn't released, or all the unreleased Stringenius stuff, or all the stuff that Marcus Anderson talks, plus the number of albums Morris Hayes said Prince recorded during his 2011-13 album hiatus - I think it's fair to say there is a HUGE amount of stuff we have yet to hear, just when it comes to studio recordings.

One question is - how many of these songs were finished, and if not, how close to being finished. If they were at the stage of the Deliverance stuff (I, for one, can't tell what was later added by Ian Boxill) - then it just needs to be treated respectfully and we're all good.

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Reply #2 posted 08/03/17 9:59am

NouveauDance

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leecaldon said:

I suspect you are way, way out.

As do I.

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Reply #3 posted 08/03/17 10:52am

BartVanHemelen

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I suspect we've heard a significant part of the "golden years" output, or at least know about these tracks (e.g. we've known about "Wednesday" for decades but it only recently leaked). I don't immediately recall any completely new songs appearing in recent years, although it is possible that there still are undocumented tracks. Uptown et al have documented this era in-depth and plenty of those involved have talked to them on and off the record. Note that I'm talking about completely new songs, not alternate versions of known songs.

.

Post-1995 is another matter. Security tightened and insiders at most hinted about projects or songs. IIRC Steve Parke shared a previously unknown Emancipation configuration a couple of months ago that contained at least one track title that was completely unknown.

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It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #4 posted 08/03/17 11:09am

nelcp777

I think the "WB" era stuff is around 50%. The post WB stuff is far less 20% and I am guessing on that because I do not believe we have a good idea of what was recorded. I can only base my guess on what people have hinted as what was recorded.

Cataloguing the Vault will be a lengthy and costly process. I am curious not only to the contents, but the quality and completeness of the material. It would be a shame if the earlier matereial is damaged and cannot be salvaged.

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Reply #5 posted 08/03/17 11:27am

RaspBerryGirlF
riend

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BartVanHemelen said:

I suspect we've heard a significant part of the "golden years" output, or at least know about these tracks (e.g. we've known about "Wednesday" for decades but it only recently leaked). I don't immediately recall any completely new songs appearing in recent years, although it is possible that there still are undocumented tracks. Uptown et al have documented this era in-depth and plenty of those involved have talked to them on and off the record. Note that I'm talking about completely new songs, not alternate versions of known songs.

.

Post-1995 is another matter. Security tightened and insiders at most hinted about projects or songs. IIRC Steve Parke shared a previously unknown Emancipation configuration a couple of months ago that contained at least one track title that was completely unknown.

Was 9 To 5 People a title people had heard of before it leaked?

Heavenly wine and roses seems to whisper to me when you smile...
Always cry for love, never cry for pain...
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Reply #6 posted 08/03/17 11:48am

EmmaMcG

BartVanHemelen said:

I suspect we've heard a significant part of the "golden years" output, or at least know about these tracks (e.g. we've known about "Wednesday" for decades but it only recently leaked). I don't immediately recall any completely new songs appearing in recent years, although it is possible that there still are undocumented tracks. Uptown et al have documented this era in-depth and plenty of those involved have talked to them on and off the record. Note that I'm talking about completely new songs, not alternate versions of known songs.


.


Post-1995 is another matter. Security tightened and insiders at most hinted about projects or songs. IIRC Steve Parke shared a previously unknown Emancipation configuration a couple of months ago that contained at least one track title that was completely unknown.



I suspect you are correct. I'd say the majority of Prince’s 80's stuff is out there. Maybe there's still a couple of gems hiding away but I'm guessing that if there's any brand new leaks to come from the 80's, it will be Prince's versions of songs he gave to other people, like "101".

Considering the sheer amount of unreleased studio outtakes that's surfaced over the years from his "golden period", and the lack of leaks from his post-Warner years, I wonder if perhaps his later years hold as much material as his early years. I mean, did his work rate completely drop off or are there potentially hundreds of outtakes from albums like Musicology, 3121 etc. Until things get sorted and it's decided who owns what, we won't know but I think there's at least some money to be made in packaging outtakes and unreleased songs from his later years and selling them as "new" Prince albums. And unlike Purple Rain Deluxe, at least they'll actually be songs we've never heard before.
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Reply #7 posted 08/03/17 11:48am

maplenpg

BartVanHemelen said:

I suspect we've heard a significant part of the "golden years" output, or at least know about these tracks (e.g. we've known about "Wednesday" for decades but it only recently leaked). I don't immediately recall any completely new songs appearing in recent years, although it is possible that there still are undocumented tracks. Uptown et al have documented this era in-depth and plenty of those involved have talked to them on and off the record. Note that I'm talking about completely new songs, not alternate versions of known songs.

.

Post-1995 is another matter. Security tightened and insiders at most hinted about projects or songs. IIRC Steve Parke shared a previously unknown Emancipation configuration a couple of months ago that contained at least one track title that was completely unknown.

I agree completely (though I live in hope that there is a vault full of new material). I'd love to hear some very recent, prior to his death new stuff that he'd been working on if there is any.

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Reply #8 posted 08/03/17 12:10pm

love2thenines2
003

I think that.....hum my guess is that etc.... few months ago even the specialists of Prince's music did not even know there were a studio version of Electric Intercourse and a full orchestrated version of Father's song....brothers and sisters of the Purple underground....what u think is wrong about Prince...his music and his vault And u know that !
[Edited 8/3/17 12:12pm]
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Reply #9 posted 08/03/17 12:36pm

BartVanHemelen

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RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

BartVanHemelen said:

I suspect we've heard a significant part of the "golden years" output, or at least know about these tracks (e.g. we've known about "Wednesday" for decades but it only recently leaked). I don't immediately recall any completely new songs appearing in recent years, although it is possible that there still are undocumented tracks. Uptown et al have documented this era in-depth and plenty of those involved have talked to them on and off the record. Note that I'm talking about completely new songs, not alternate versions of known songs.

.

Post-1995 is another matter. Security tightened and insiders at most hinted about projects or songs. IIRC Steve Parke shared a previously unknown Emancipation configuration a couple of months ago that contained at least one track title that was completely unknown.

Was 9 To 5 People a title people had heard of before it leaked?

.

http://www.princevault.co...on=history

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #10 posted 08/03/17 12:40pm

BartVanHemelen

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love2thenines2003 said:

I think that.....hum my guess is that etc.... few months ago even the specialists of Prince's music did not even know there were a studio version of Electric Intercourse and a full orchestrated version of Father's song....

.

So? We knew those songs existed. Was it a surprise to hear an alternate version? Sure. And I suppose we'll get plenty more. But completely unknown songs from the 1980s? That's going to be rare, I suspect.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #11 posted 08/03/17 1:28pm

erik319

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BartVanHemelen said:



love2thenines2003 said:


I think that.....hum my guess is that etc.... few months ago even the specialists of Prince's music did not even know there were a studio version of Electric Intercourse and a full orchestrated version of Father's song....

.


So? We knew those songs existed. Was it a surprise to hear an alternate version? Sure. And I suppose we'll get plenty more. But completely unknown songs from the 1980s? That's going to be rare, I suspect.



Agreed. Though I'd suspect there's probably a few post-Revolution 'Prince working alone' tracks waiting to be unearthed.
blah blah blah
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Reply #12 posted 08/03/17 3:07pm

luvsexy4all

there were 35 completed unreleased albums mentioned in the 90's ..

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Reply #13 posted 08/03/17 3:19pm

Revolution81

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4 lust was completely unknown, until Jill leaked it a few years ago
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Reply #14 posted 08/03/17 3:22pm

SquirrelMeat

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I agree with Bart.

There will no doubt be a few surprises from the golden years, but I would have thought that most have been, at the very least, documented, even if they have not been heard. A few dozen might have slipped the net.

For xxample, I'm not expecting 1999 II to appear with mostly unknown material. It's likely to have an throwaway statement and if something was tracked in that era, its going to contain the both vault tracks already documented and tracks that eventually found their way onto albums, b-sides and proteges.

If there is an era that more material might surface, I would say its the 79-81; where studios were erratic and physical information harder to come by.

.
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Reply #15 posted 08/03/17 3:31pm

sms130

I suspect that maybe about 30-40% of the Warner recorded material has leaked and maybe a good 10-15% of the post Warner recorded material has leaked up to this point. Overall, I think that it's 25-35% of the vault that has leaked over the years. This is so much to consider when discussing recordings in The Vault. This is still lots of recordings of songs in the studio as well as live recordings to consider and did I mention those rehearsal jams? There's still lots of soundboard recordings that has not leaked from both the Warner years and post Warner years. The recordings post Warner years has been locked away for many years and little has leaked from that time considering that this 20 years of stuff.

[Edited 8/3/17 15:32pm]

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Reply #16 posted 08/03/17 4:46pm

MIRvmn

luvsexy4all said:

there were 35 completed unreleased albums mentioned in the 90's ..


So with those 35 albums + every unreleased album he made since the 90's it should be somewhere around 40-50 unreleased albums
Thunder, all through the night
Promise to see Jesus in the morning light
Take my hand, it'll be alright
C'mon save your soul tonight
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Reply #17 posted 08/03/17 5:45pm

databank

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Virtually nothing post WB has leaked: a few Emancipation outtakes and a handful of other tracks (maybe 5 at the very most?), so I'd say more like 0,3% of post WB material has leaked.

Regarding WB songs IDK. There's a reasonable quantity of songs that are known to exist but uncirculating (we could actually count 'em from Pvault), probably more unheard songs than we suspect (I was pretty baffled when I recently learned that 2 Musicology songs dated back to the mid-90's, among other discoveries) but I doubt it goes beyond a few dozens. On the other hand recent leaks and PR Deluxe have proven, if nothing else, that there must exist a ridiculous amount of alternate versions and recordings of known songs. I wouldn't dare to make an estimate in terms of percentage, because I'd probably be dead wrong.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #18 posted 08/03/17 5:50pm

databank

avatar

Revolution81 said:

4 lust was completely unknown, until Jill leaked it a few years ago

And the fact that a second, entirely different version of it was revealed to exist last year, produced by a top notch British producer outside of the confines of Paisley Park, and yet no one knew about it, makes your example even more significant lol

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #19 posted 08/04/17 10:34am

spookyelectric
23

Also, nowadays there's ways to clean up music with online recording software, "remastering" things, boosting the levels here, adjusting the treble or mid-range there.. That may account for why some versions sound so much better than others. It does seem that the majority of his early to late '80s stuff has been leaked in abundance. I do need to get into his post-1996 calatog a lot more. I'd be lying if I said I listened to everything from every era. I should. I'll get there, somehow, little by little.. Even so, it's awesome that he was as prolific as he was and that you can hear so much unreleased stuff. Even his works in progress are interesting. Gives you a fly on the wall vantage point of hearing where he was at at a given time when creating songs. I just dug it when he had the Revolution around. Lisa's singing voice, to me, is as identifiable and part of Prince's sound at the time as his own voice was. I began to fall off following him from new record to new record after 'Emancipation'. It all just became too bizarre and hard for me to follow at the time. Even though he's always was the main man, the boss, I still enjoyed him best when he collaborated with the Revolution. To each their own, as the good saying goes. Peace.

[Edited 8/4/17 10:41am]

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Reply #20 posted 08/04/17 11:21am

Misslink88

If you listen to the Morris Hayes interview, he mentions 5 complete songs from the 80's that were better than Purple Rain, and he only heard them that one time when P played them for him. He also mentions that P always mixed things up and recorded everything. My guess would be that there are many, many more surprises waiting.

God is my Sugar Daddy.
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Reply #21 posted 08/04/17 12:13pm

nelcp777

Misslink88 said:

If you listen to the Morris Hayes interview, he mentions 5 complete songs from the 80's that were better than Purple Rain, and he only heard them that one time when P played them for him. He also mentions that P always mixed things up and recorded everything. My guess would be that there are many, many more surprises waiting.

I, like many others, would like to hear those tracks. Too bad titles or more information was not revealed. Thanks for the information.

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Reply #22 posted 08/04/17 1:14pm

dodger

leecaldon said:



spookyelectric23 said:


Strictly theorization for the sake of it, nothing more. My b.s. guess would be 70% of the vault's contents have been leaked over the years. There's just so much already out there. I'm hope I'm wrong. It would be a shame to have such secure measures taken to protect the vault's contents only to have whatever was in there be somehow circulated.



I often wonder, especially within the last couple of years of his life, if he himself leaked stuff for the diehards to enjoy. If he was so anti-contract, anti-will and all that, what difference would it be to him to let some of the vault's contents leak, especially if he wasn't much long for the world?



More and more you hear of better sourced stuff circulating out there. Where is it all coming from? Makes you wonder. It's the source quality of stuff that seems to be more evident in recent years. Thoughts?





I suspect you are way, way out. When we hear of all the stuff that he Brent Fischer says he and his father added strings that wasn't released, or all the unreleased Stringenius stuff, or all the stuff that Marcus Anderson talks, plus the number of albums Morris Hayes said Prince recorded during his 2011-13 album hiatus - I think it's fair to say there is a HUGE amount of stuff we have yet to hear, just when it comes to studio recordings.



One question is - how many of these songs were finished, and if not, how close to being finished. If they were at the stage of the Deliverance stuff (I, for one, can't tell what was later added by Ian Boxill) - then it just needs to be treated respectfully and we're all good.



Didn't one of 3EG also say they recorded something like 200 songs for Plectrum Electrum. I guess some may be alternate versions as The Breakdown and That Girl Thang were mentioned.
.
There must be a shit load of alternate versions, one I've always been keen to hear is the rock version of Solo that Michael B spoke of
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Reply #23 posted 08/04/17 5:25pm

SquirrelMeat

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dodger said:

leecaldon said:

I suspect you are way, way out. When we hear of all the stuff that he Brent Fischer says he and his father added strings that wasn't released, or all the unreleased Stringenius stuff, or all the stuff that Marcus Anderson talks, plus the number of albums Morris Hayes said Prince recorded during his 2011-13 album hiatus - I think it's fair to say there is a HUGE amount of stuff we have yet to hear, just when it comes to studio recordings.

One question is - how many of these songs were finished, and if not, how close to being finished. If they were at the stage of the Deliverance stuff (I, for one, can't tell what was later added by Ian Boxill) - then it just needs to be treated respectfully and we're all good.

Didn't one of 3EG also say they recorded something like 200 songs for Plectrum Electrum. I guess some may be alternate versions as The Breakdown and That Girl Thang were mentioned. . There must be a shit load of alternate versions, one I've always been keen to hear is the rock version of Solo that Michael B spoke of


I thought they said they learnt (eg rehearsed) 200 songs. I assumed it was to be able to turn it on live. Didn't Hannah specifically mention learning tracks like Lets Work?

My guess is that they learnt 200 from the back catalogue AND recorded them, but in the context of live studio recordings, like much of the Plectrum Electrum album. In that contextm there could be dozens of versions of certain tracks.

.
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Reply #24 posted 08/04/17 8:02pm

FUNKNROLL

I have a spreadsheet that lists about 94 songs made during 1986. That’s almost 10 albums. Many songs were released and most of the unreleased were leaked.
Dates show not more than 11 day gaps in recording during the year. Towards the end of the year, the types of songs and titles seem to offer a glimpse of what was going on in his life (the year ends with Wally). Hard to imagine there would be more songs for that year?
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Reply #25 posted 08/05/17 1:33am

dodger

SquirrelMeat said:



dodger said:


leecaldon said:




I suspect you are way, way out. When we hear of all the stuff that he Brent Fischer says he and his father added strings that wasn't released, or all the unreleased Stringenius stuff, or all the stuff that Marcus Anderson talks, plus the number of albums Morris Hayes said Prince recorded during his 2011-13 album hiatus - I think it's fair to say there is a HUGE amount of stuff we have yet to hear, just when it comes to studio recordings.



One question is - how many of these songs were finished, and if not, how close to being finished. If they were at the stage of the Deliverance stuff (I, for one, can't tell what was later added by Ian Boxill) - then it just needs to be treated respectfully and we're all good.



Didn't one of 3EG also say they recorded something like 200 songs for Plectrum Electrum. I guess some may be alternate versions as The Breakdown and That Girl Thang were mentioned. . There must be a shit load of alternate versions, one I've always been keen to hear is the rock version of Solo that Michael B spoke of


I thought they said they learnt (eg rehearsed) 200 songs. I assumed it was to be able to turn it on live. Didn't Hannah specifically mention learning tracks like Lets Work?

My guess is that they learnt 200 from the back catalogue AND recorded them, but in the context of live studio recordings, like much of the Plectrum Electrum album. In that contextm there could be dozens of versions of certain tracks.



I remember reading they'd been constantly rehearsing and recording for 2 years and something like 200 songs had been recorded.
.
Which sounds possible as Plectrum was rumoured to be mostly instrumentals and more tracks with Hannah on lead before being replaced with newer tracks with P on lead
.
Also, around the release of HNR Phase 1 there was talk of a second 3EG album and a video clip was posted of Donna watching Stringenius in a recording studio working on new 3EG tracks.
[Edited 8/5/17 1:34am]
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Reply #26 posted 08/05/17 2:23am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

spookyelectric23 said:

Also, nowadays there's ways to clean up music with online recording software, "remastering" things, boosting the levels here, adjusting the treble or mid-range there..

.

Do you seriously think there weren't Prince fans with access to (semi-)professional recording equipment in the past? FYI the boot of The Dream Factory was T's excellent work in cleaning up a cassette source. His 12" collection was and is legendary for its sound quality. There's several of such people and they've been around for a long time. Ditto for video work, hence the bootleg DVD versions of the 1985 Syracuse gig being as good or better than WBRs official release.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #27 posted 08/05/17 3:50am

PURPLEIZED3121

Not worth an attempt to begin to speculate/guess the %age. When little gems like Yah U know or the Deliverance EP pop up the mind truly boggles as to what remains unreleased across his entire career.

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Reply #28 posted 08/05/17 4:02am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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MIRvmn said:

luvsexy4all said:

there were 35 completed unreleased albums mentioned in the 90's ..

So with those 35 albums + every unreleased album he made since the 90's it should be somewhere around 40-50 unreleased albums

39 mentioned at first Celebration with artwork, liner notes and ready for release at any moment and that vault had 1000+ songs and at that time was going thru songs and trying to place them into configuration to make albums. That was late 90s.

JESUS WILL HELP YOU
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Reply #29 posted 08/05/17 8:00am

Misslink88

nelcp777 said:

Misslink88 said:

If you listen to the Morris Hayes interview, he mentions 5 complete songs from the 80's that were better than Purple Rain, and he only heard them that one time when P played them for him. He also mentions that P always mixed things up and recorded everything. My guess would be that there are many, many more surprises waiting.

I, like many others, would like to hear those tracks. Too bad titles or more information was not revealed. Thanks for the information.

He did mention another song "Born to Die".

God is my Sugar Daddy.
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