rogifan said:

Laydown said:

The thing about the vault being sold to UMG tells me WB didnt want it or they wouldve made a deal with the estate. Now that UMG dont want it,who will? The last thing I want is some entity like Tidal getting their hands on it,but it seems like it is going that way.

Tidal getting it would be the worst. Anybody but Tidal.

Why they are a streaming services just like the other services. They are not in the business of being administeres of music catalogs so it is unlikely that Tidal will be doing anything but streaming.

As far as the vault it is not going to be sold it will eventrully be licensed out to someone or maybe just put the material out for streaming directly from NPG LLC and not be bothered with hooking up with any record lable at all.

It is also possible that Prince did not offer the vault material to anyone to license when the the WB deal was put in place.

Laydown said:

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said: Well WB was in the room when the deal was signed so they must have been happy at the time. I belived the deal was structed to eventrully have WB license everything and to keep anyone else from being involved. I think Prince knew vultures were coming to pick his bones and even if he had a will whoever inherited would go against his wishes to get a quick buck. Well that will not be so easy now. Remember he had beef with UMG so he is getting what he wanted.

The thing about the vault being sold to UMG tells me WB didnt want it or they wouldve made a deal with the estate. Now that UMG dont want it,who will? The last thing I want is some entity like Tidal getting their hands on it,but it seems like it is going that way.

Maybe the lack of WB bidding on the Vault and then "interferring" with the UMG agreement gave WB more leverage to the licensing/rights by dropping the price? WB has pubicly displayed the legal nightmares of the contract, possibly pushing other interested companies away? Speculation.

nelcp777 said:

Laydown said:

The thing about the vault being sold to UMG tells me WB didnt want it or they wouldve made a deal with the estate. Now that UMG dont want it,who will? The last thing I want is some entity like Tidal getting their hands on it,but it seems like it is going that way.

Maybe the lack of WB bidding on the Vault and then "interferring" with the UMG agreement gave WB more leverage to the licensing/rights by dropping the price? WB has pubicly displayed the legal nightmares of the contract, possibly pushing other interested companies away? Speculation.

Could be that this is WBs strategy? I still say if this contract was a nightmare why did WB agree to it.

The had the master tapes they had leverage over Prince in this deal. I do not buy for one minute that this contract is not to WB's advantage as they would have never signed it in the first place and they certainly would not be threatening to see UMG over it.

The deal is a nightmare for other parties trying to get rich off of P's catalogue.

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said:

Maybe the lack of WB bidding on the Vault and then "interferring" with the UMG agreement gave WB more leverage to the licensing/rights by dropping the price? WB has pubicly displayed the legal nightmares of the contract, possibly pushing other interested companies away? Speculation.

Could be that this is WBs strategy? I still say if this contract was a nightmare why did WB agree to it.

The had the master tapes they had leverage over Prince in this deal. I do not buy for one minute that this contract is not to WB's advantage as they would have never signed it in the first place and they certainly would not be threatening to see UMG over it.

The deal is a nightmare for other parties trying to get rich off of P's catalogue.

The ambiguity of the contract seems to play in WB's favor (I have not read the contract, but conclude this from the statements in the court docs). That may be why WB signed the deal. I would not be surprised if WB makes an offer after the recinded deal, and quite possible the after the estate is settled. I also believe the offer will be lower than the $30M. Quite lower.

nelcp777 said:

laurarichardson said:

Could be that this is WBs strategy? I still say if this contract was a nightmare why did WB agree to it.

The had the master tapes they had leverage over Prince in this deal. I do not buy for one minute that this contract is not to WB's advantage as they would have never signed it in the first place and they certainly would not be threatening to see UMG over it.

The deal is a nightmare for other parties trying to get rich off of P's catalogue.

The ambiguity of the contract seems to play in WB's favor (I have not read the contract, but conclude this from the statements in the court docs). That may be why WB signed the deal. I would not be surprised if WB makes an offer after the recinded deal, and quite possible the after the estate is settled. I also believe the offer will be lower than the $30M. Quite lower.

Could be lower but unless the family wants to hire someone to run the LLC they may have to make a deal. I am not that impressed with the remaster and kind of think the estate would do better to throw all this stuff out to streaming sites. It would save money and time.

If people want it on a CD then find someone to burn it for you.

iirc, this all started with WB complaining it wasn't given the option to bid on the Vault.

morningsong said:

Comerica filed a letter today in response to the letter filed by Lonny's attorney on June 23, 2017.

• Comerica disputes Lonny's suggestion that the Court has previously discharged or should now consider discharging Lonny from liability with the Estate.
  
  
• Comerica argues that the Order filed April 5, 2017 specifically preserved Lonny's potential liability to the Estate.
  
  
• Comerica is currently concluding its investigation of the Tribute Concert and whether to pursue an action against Lonny in connection with the concert.
  
  
• A resolution of the Jobu lawsuit will not necessarily dispose of any potential claims agains Lonny.
  
  
• Comerica is reserving its right to pursue legal action against Lonny for return of his commission and any other potential claims.
  
  
• As a result Comerica is requesting the Judge to deny Lonny's request for discharge.
  
  

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

1Sasha said:

Good letter today regarding UMG and the recission. Apparently, they are all in agreement that the deal with Warner Bros. is also a mess. Someone posted either here or on FB that WB should just buy the whole catalogue and be done with it.

Agreed, it would make a lot of sense for WB to buy the whole catalogue.

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said:

The ambiguity of the contract seems to play in WB's favor (I have not read the contract, but conclude this from the statements in the court docs). That may be why WB signed the deal. I would not be surprised if WB makes an offer after the recinded deal, and quite possible the after the estate is settled. I also believe the offer will be lower than the $30M. Quite lower.

Could be lower but unless the family wants to hire someone to run the LLC they may have to make a deal. I am not that impressed with the remaster and kind of think the estate would do better to throw all this stuff out to streaming sites. It would save money and time.

If people want it on a CD then find someone to burn it for you.

Laura, interesting point. I do hope that at some point, the Estate allows for reissues of other albums in order to satisfy the hardcore fans. Let the casual fans get the music off of streaming sites and burn it. I also really want to see live performances released, e.g. 2011 North Sea Jazz.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Comerica filed a letter today in response to the letter filed by Lonny's attorney on June 23, 2017.

• Comerica disputes Lonny's suggestion that the Court has previously discharged or should now consider discharging Lonny from liability with the Estate.
  
  
• Comerica argues that the Order filed April 5, 2017 specifically preserved Lonny's potential liability to the Estate.
  
  
• Comerica is currently concluding its investigation of the Tribute Concert and whether to pursue an action against Lonny in connection with the concert.
  
  
• A resolution of the Jobu lawsuit will not necessarily dispose of any potential claims agains Lonny.
  
  
• Comerica is reserving its right to pursue legal action against Lonny for return of his commission and any other potential claims.
  
  
• As a result Comerica is requesting the Judge to deny Lonny's request for discharge.
  
  

If he deliberately misled about any of this then he deserves whatever is coming to him.

udo said:

Lovejunky said:

this whole mess might be the Ultimate FU

.

Compared to the energy and dedication that went into the music it borders on laziness.

.

.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/27/17 6:30am]

Prince ?

Lazy ?

Nope....

206Michelle said:

laurarichardson said:

Could be lower but unless the family wants to hire someone to run the LLC they may have to make a deal. I am not that impressed with the remaster and kind of think the estate would do better to throw all this stuff out to streaming sites. It would save money and time.

If people want it on a CD then find someone to burn it for you.

Laura, interesting point. I do hope that at some point, the Estate allows for reissues of other albums in order to satisfy the hardcore fans. Let the casual fans get the music off of streaming sites and burn it. I also really want to see live performances released, e.g. 2011 North Sea Jazz.

I agree Laura...

Let it all out there....Deal with CD Pressings, Videos boxed released, and special packages later...

People need to hear him..

If the estate arnt careful UMG could end up owning the estate.

Laydown said:

If the estate arnt careful UMG could end up owning the estate.

UMG is walking away from the deal. They have no interest.

laurarichardson said:

Laydown said:

If the estate arnt careful UMG could end up owning the estate.

UMG is walking away from the deal. They have no interest.

the estate would be better run by 3 year olds. The estate have no idea,they would be better off selling everything to someone who knows better,WBR or anyone interested.

Comments have been made that these legal issues make the estate less attractive to prospective buyers because, basically, no one knows exactly who or what owns any one song for a specific time period or in perpetuity through all commercial avenues or platforms. They have been so busy trying to make money that they didn't take a year to catalogue the vault(s), pore through contracts, and make a solid business plan. JMO but I hope the artists out there look at this as a lesson in not what to do.

[Edited 6/29/17 5:41am]

If UMG dont get their rescission,they will sue for damages which means they will probably end up owning the estate

Laydown said:

If UMG dont get their rescission,they will sue for damages which means they will probably end up owning the estate

30 million dollars will not put them in position to own the estate.

Rev said:

Laydown said:

If UMG dont get their rescission,they will sue for damages which means they will probably end up owning the estate

30 million dollars will not put them in position to own the estate.

They would get their $30 mil plus $$ for fraudulent misrepresentation, and attorney fees.

Remember, there are at least two other pending lawsuits against the Estate, Tidal and Jobu.

It is one big cluster.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Rev said:

30 million dollars will not put them in position to own the estate.

They would get their $30 mil plus $$ for fraudulent misrepresentation, and attorney fees.

Remember, there are at least two other pending lawsuits against the Estate, Tidal and Jobu.

It is one big cluster.

So true and with that, do you think Comerica will go after Bremer Jobu?

It seem Comerica is taking a more conservative and slow paced course of action as oppossed to Bremer. I initially liked how Bremerwas handling things, but it appears they rushed into things and had key advisers that they shouldn't have.

Comerica needs to settle the current disputes and review, in depth all agreements and then pursue deals. I understand there is a tax bill that needs to be paid, but arrangements and extensions can be made. That may be more cost effective than continuous litigation from hastily deals.

The Tidal suit has me concerned.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

UMG is stating that after reviewing the 2014 agreement between Prince and Warner Bros it is indeed ambiguous, and only bolsters their reasons to rescind the contract.

UMG is stating the Estate's conduct was fraudulent because they knew there was a conflict in the agreement and knowingly failed to disclose it to UMG and knowingly misled UMG.

SMFH.

.

Haha!
Bring it on to Charly and Lonny!

`Fraudulent` means they were wrongdoing and thus their 'fees' need to be repaid.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Rev said:

30 million dollars will not put them in position to own the estate.

They would get their $30 mil plus $$ for fraudulent misrepresentation, and attorney fees.

Remember, there are at least two other pending lawsuits against the Estate, Tidal and Jobu.

It is one big cluster.

The court docs mention an advance payment. I do not think the estate received a lump payment of 30 million.

1Sasha said:

Comments have been made that these legal issues make the estate less attractive to prospective buyers because, basically, no one knows exactly who or what owns any one song for a specific time period or in perpetuity through all commercial avenues or platforms. They have been so busy trying to make money that they didn't take a year to catalogue the vault(s), pore through contracts, and make a solid business plan. JMO but I hope the artists out there look at this as a lesson in not what to do.

[Edited 6/29/17 5:41am]

No contract is not capable of being admended. If the contract is ambiguous that can be fixed by negotiation. Remember I suspect the Prince was planning to be alive and well when this contract was signed so he could have a reason for it to be structed a certain way.

Laydown said:

laurarichardson said:

UMG is walking away from the deal. They have no interest.

the estate would be better run by 3 year olds. The estate have no idea,they would be better off selling everything to someone who knows better,WBR or anyone interested.

Only a fool would sell the master tapes. In addition, the estate would get killed with taxes.

laurarichardson said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

They would get their $30 mil plus $$ for fraudulent misrepresentation, and attorney fees.

Remember, there are at least two other pending lawsuits against the Estate, Tidal and Jobu.

It is one big cluster.

The court docs mention an advance payment. I do not think the estate received a lump payment of 30 million.

When UMG asked for the rescinsion, did they not ask the court to put the funds into escrow to ensure that the refund was "protected"?

The shit is really hitting the fan now. Everyone is getting antsy and wants to tie this up, asap! The longer this fiasco continues, the more money will be lost, not to mention the stress and grief this is causing everyone involved, not to mention Prince's fans! Such a damn shame!

Can someone give me the lowdown on the chances of getting post-WB material on streaming services? Who owns the right to all that music, and is it being sold to record companies etc?

PurpleCreme said:

Can someone give me the lowdown on the chances of getting post-WB material on streaming services? Who owns the right to all that music, and is it being sold to record companies etc?

NPG Music (The Estate) owns post-WB material.

I thought post-WB material already on streaming services?