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Thread started 06/13/17 12:39pm

JoeyCococo

Miles Davis and Prince

Over the last 12 months, I have become an admirer of jazz. The Hard Bop style mainly. I have also become a fan of Miles Davis and after reading loads about him, listening to Podcasts, watching is interviews ....i can see Prince and Miles Davis admired one another. They were sort of the same type....both looking forward, not back. Both were absolute genius and fearless in their art. If you think Prince took many left turns, you have to read up on Miles. If you think P was prolific, you need to see Miles. If you think Prince was a rebel, you have to see Miles. Now, when I talk to non Prince fans, it's the other way around ...you have to inform them that Prince was a total rebel and non conformost like Miles. Prince was a forward thinker, likes Miles.

I can totally see how these two would love each other's work (Miles was a funk fan) and love each other's attitude. YOu should see how difficult Miles was during interviews. They had differences too...Prince was definitely not as combative, not violent, and there are many stories of Miles being all that.

I think in Prince's last 10 years he'd become more 'pro-black' whereas he had spent many years before being very neutral about race, at least his public persona was that. Miles was just oozing blackness. I just loved the answer he had for a reporter who asked if blacks were great at blues music b/c they suffered more. Miles' father was a surgeon and mother was a professional or something...they were wealthy so Miles just laughed at it. Another reporter asked if he liked white people and his answered in straight face - 'sometimes'. hahahaha I believe he was totallyh kidding. I believe that Prince and Miles shared the same disdain for the press and used them but did not take them seriously.

The story Eric Leeds tells of Prince and Miles having dinner just cements my idea of them together.

I hope that like Miles' discography, Prince's is eventually treated the same. Miles has had incredible sets released since his death. The sound of these 50-60 year old recordings are just out of this world. The amoutn of care put into the releases is amazing. Prince left so much first rate material, and such an artist that someone with very little skill could pout together incredible sets.

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Reply #1 posted 06/13/17 1:34pm

precioux

JoeyCococo said:

Over the last 12 months, I have become an admirer of jazz. The Hard Bop style mainly. I have also become a fan of Miles Davis and after reading loads about him, listening to Podcasts, watching is interviews ....i can see Prince and Miles Davis admired one another. They were sort of the same type....both looking forward, not back. Both were absolute genius and fearless in their art. If you think Prince took many left turns, you have to read up on Miles. If you think P was prolific, you need to see Miles. If you think Prince was a rebel, you have to see Miles. Now, when I talk to non Prince fans, it's the other way around ...you have to inform them that Prince was a total rebel and non conformost like Miles. Prince was a forward thinker, likes Miles.

I can totally see how these two would love each other's work (Miles was a funk fan) and love each other's attitude. YOu should see how difficult Miles was during interviews. They had differences too...Prince was definitely not as combative, not violent, and there are many stories of Miles being all that.

I think in Prince's last 10 years he'd become more 'pro-black' whereas he had spent many years before being very neutral about race, at least his public persona was that. Miles was just oozing blackness. I just loved the answer he had for a reporter who asked if blacks were great at blues music b/c they suffered more. Miles' father was a surgeon and mother was a professional or something...they were wealthy so Miles just laughed at it. Another reporter asked if he liked white people and his answered in straight face - 'sometimes'. hahahaha I believe he was totallyh kidding. I believe that Prince and Miles shared the same disdain for the press and used them but did not take them seriously.

The story Eric Leeds tells of Prince and Miles having dinner just cements my idea of them together.

I hope that like Miles' discography, Prince's is eventually treated the same. Miles has had incredible sets released since his death. The sound of these 50-60 year old recordings are just out of this world. The amoutn of care put into the releases is amazing. Prince left so much first rate material, and such an artist that someone with very little skill could pout together incredible sets.

Ditto on your post wink

To the bolded..I've watched many an interview with Miles and adore his genius and straightforward, "blunt" mannerisms. I don't think he was joking at all on the question of whether he liked white folk. Reason being, he made it a point in an interview of stating that he didn't quite know why, but sight unseen, and from just listening to someone (on the trumpet or other jazz instrument), he said he could tell if the musician was white or not...just from listening.

I found it interesting that like Prince, he claimed to hear music in everything as well as all the time, even in his sleep. He called it a blessing and a curse just like Prince did. When Prince came out, Miles gave him props saying something to the tune of "he's the next big thing/the next Duke Ellington" lol

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Reply #2 posted 06/13/17 3:12pm

Latin

Check out "Inside Miles Davis’ Prince Obsession, As Detailed By Davis’ Family and Collaborators":

http://prince.org/msg/5/442818
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Reply #3 posted 06/13/17 4:08pm

fen

avatar

precioux said:

JoeyCococo said:

Another reporter asked if he liked white people and his answered in straight face - 'sometimes'.

I don't think he was joking at all on the question of whether he liked white folk.


That just strikes me as a sensible answer to a stupid question. I’d answer the same way, and I’m “white”. He didn’t suffer fools gladly.

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Reply #4 posted 06/13/17 11:19pm

Laydown

'Dont call me a legend,I know what I did for music but dont call me a legend,just call me Miles Davis'

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Reply #5 posted 06/14/17 11:20am

JoeyCococo

Laydown said:

'Dont call me a legend,I know what I did for music but dont call me a legend,just call me Miles Davis'

I neglected to mention in my original post another key observation. I always found it so odd how Prince spoke in circles or where he would often not make sense when he spoke. I remember wishing he would not do interviews b/c he came off so damn weird and disconnected. If you watch Miles Davis interviews, it is similar at times when he is unable to verbalize what he want to communicate. Words come out of their mouths but to most, makes no sense. You are left working hard to decipher or translate.

I used to think Prince did it on purpose but after seeing Miles, and knowing they were both absolute geniuses, i think it is more that they thought, perceived, understood and processed differently from the average person. I mean, is there any doubt that Prince and Miles were absolutely unique?

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Reply #6 posted 06/14/17 12:35pm

precioux

JoeyCococo said:

Laydown said:

'Dont call me a legend,I know what I did for music but dont call me a legend,just call me Miles Davis'

I neglected to mention in my original post another key observation. I always found it so odd how Prince spoke in circles or where he would often not make sense when he spoke. I remember wishing he would not do interviews b/c he came off so damn weird and disconnected. If you watch Miles Davis interviews, it is similar at times when he is unable to verbalize what he want to communicate. Words come out of their mouths but to most, makes no sense. You are left working hard to decipher or translate.

I used to think Prince did it on purpose but after seeing Miles, and knowing they were both absolute geniuses, i think it is more that they thought, perceived, understood and processed differently from the average person. I mean, is there any doubt that Prince and Miles were absolutely unique?

No doubt whatsoever. I honestly think just like Prince stated, his most comfortable way of communicating was through his music, hence his statement "if you want to know me, listen to my music" (paraphrasing). Miles stated the same in an interview-that he was uncomfortable "talking" with someone to communicate, and could communicate his feelings better through his music as well. Different wavelength there that I wish would be studied. My belief is that there is a common link "brain wise" with the geniuses that have yet to be discovered. As I mentioned in my earlier post, these 2 geniuses "heard music all the time, and in everything"....so much so that BOTH stated it was "a blessing and a curse"

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Reply #7 posted 06/14/17 6:09pm

laurarichardso
n

JoeyCococo said:



Laydown said:


'Dont call me a legend,I know what I did for music but dont call me a legend,just call me Miles Davis'





I neglected to mention in my original post another key observation. I always found it so odd how Prince spoke in circles or where he would often not make sense when he spoke. I remember wishing he would not do interviews b/c he came off so damn weird and disconnected. If you watch Miles Davis interviews, it is similar at times when he is unable to verbalize what he want to communicate. Words come out of their mouths but to most, makes no sense. You are left working hard to decipher or translate.



I used to think Prince did it on purpose but after seeing Miles, and knowing they were both absolute geniuses, i think it is more that they thought, perceived, understood and processed differently from the average person. I mean, is there any doubt that Prince and Miles were absolutely unique?




He is crystal clear in his interviews with Tavis Smiley and s few others he did in the 2000s. He was rusty from not doing then for years but he got better.
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Reply #8 posted 06/15/17 12:57am

Laydown

precioux said:

JoeyCococo said:

I neglected to mention in my original post another key observation. I always found it so odd how Prince spoke in circles or where he would often not make sense when he spoke. I remember wishing he would not do interviews b/c he came off so damn weird and disconnected. If you watch Miles Davis interviews, it is similar at times when he is unable to verbalize what he want to communicate. Words come out of their mouths but to most, makes no sense. You are left working hard to decipher or translate.

I used to think Prince did it on purpose but after seeing Miles, and knowing they were both absolute geniuses, i think it is more that they thought, perceived, understood and processed differently from the average person. I mean, is there any doubt that Prince and Miles were absolutely unique?

No doubt whatsoever. I honestly think just like Prince stated, his most comfortable way of communicating was through his music, hence his statement "if you want to know me, listen to my music" (paraphrasing). Miles stated the same in an interview-that he was uncomfortable "talking" with someone to communicate, and could communicate his feelings better through his music as well. Different wavelength there that I wish would be studied. My belief is that there is a common link "brain wise" with the geniuses that have yet to be discovered. As I mentioned in my earlier post, these 2 geniuses "heard music all the time, and in everything"....so much so that BOTH stated it was "a blessing and a curse"

I love Prince. Miles was a pioneer in ways only Prince could dream. I would never knock Prince but when it came to music,Miles was the teacher and Prince the student. I love Prince more than Miles,but I know game. Music is my life,Miles was exceptional.

.............................................................................................

'I know I shouldnt put my faith in heroes but I cant c u any other way

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Reply #9 posted 06/15/17 1:33am

Laydown

'Tell that purple motherfucker to call me'. Miles.

I got into Miles around 2003. Prince,two years before,released TRC,I fell in love. Jazz pierced heart. I bought an album Live at the Blackhawk,or something. It took time to get in to. Next,Kind Of Blue. The album inspired every genre that came after it. Cant say enough good things about that album. 1951-1986. This is my span of Miles Davis albums. Every ten years Miles would change music all over again,he would create and inspire new sound and new ways of expressing sound. He revolutionized music,another way of saying he brought about change in music. The paralel between Miles and Prince is like Miles,Prince changed his music every ten years.Take Dirty Mind,Graffiti Bridge and The Rainbow Children. All ten years apart and all very different from each other. The diffrence between Miles and Prince was Miles remade his music from scratch and Prince music evolved into the magical,mystical,fantastic body of work it is.

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Reply #10 posted 06/15/17 10:21am

JoeyCococo

Laydown said:

precioux said:

No doubt whatsoever. I honestly think just like Prince stated, his most comfortable way of communicating was through his music, hence his statement "if you want to know me, listen to my music" (paraphrasing). Miles stated the same in an interview-that he was uncomfortable "talking" with someone to communicate, and could communicate his feelings better through his music as well. Different wavelength there that I wish would be studied. My belief is that there is a common link "brain wise" with the geniuses that have yet to be discovered. As I mentioned in my earlier post, these 2 geniuses "heard music all the time, and in everything"....so much so that BOTH stated it was "a blessing and a curse"

I love Prince. Miles was a pioneer in ways only Prince could dream. I would never knock Prince but when it came to music,Miles was the teacher and Prince the student. I love Prince more than Miles,but I know game. Music is my life,Miles was exceptional.

.............................................................................................

'I know I shouldnt put my faith in heroes but I cant c u any other way

Laydown, i sort of know what you're saying but also know not to compare. it is not easy to compare like this. Jordan or Oscar Robertson??? Gretzky or Gordie howe???? Diifferent eras etc.

Sure, Prince benefited from Miles Davis, James Brown, George Clinton, classic Rock, Marvin Gaye coming before him. However, only Prince put it all together into some thing unique and did not derivitive. No one I know has done it...James Brown did not cut into Zeppling like riffs, Miles Davis did not break into acapalla .....Hendrix did not do 'solo'. Prince did it all - and - he did it all himself. Unparallelled. I know you know all this.


I read recently that Gil Evans had a lot or as much to do with Sketches of Spain as did Miles himself. It reminded me of the stories of Prince 'taking' Party up from Morris Day and Do me Baby from andrew cymone. It is just a nother reminder that Miles (and Prince) were human and, onc again, similar.

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Reply #11 posted 06/15/17 10:22am

JoeyCococo

JoeyCococo said:

Laydown said:

I love Prince. Miles was a pioneer in ways only Prince could dream. I would never knock Prince but when it came to music,Miles was the teacher and Prince the student. I love Prince more than Miles,but I know game. Music is my life,Miles was exceptional.

.............................................................................................

'I know I shouldnt put my faith in heroes but I cant c u any other way

Laydown, i sort of know what you're saying but also know not to compare. it is not easy to compare like this. Jordan or Oscar Robertson??? Gretzky or Gordie howe???? Diifferent eras etc.

Sure, Prince benefited from Miles Davis, James Brown, George Clinton, classic Rock, Marvin Gaye coming before him. However, only Prince put it all together into some thing unique and did not derivitive. No one I know has done it...James Brown did not cut into Zeppling like riffs, Miles Davis did not break into acapalla .....Hendrix did not do 'solo'. Prince did it all - and - he did it all himself. Unparallelled. I know you know all this.


I read recently that Gil Evans had a lot or as much to do with Sketches of Spain as did Miles himself. It reminded me of the stories of Prince 'taking' Party up from Morris Day and Do me Baby from andrew cymone. It is just a nother reminder that Miles (and Prince) were human and, onc again, similar.

oh and what abou tthe quote where Miles told Prince ...'what's it like waking up like somebody new every morning'...a comment on Pirnce's ability to transform so convincingly...so often.

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Reply #12 posted 06/16/17 1:46am

Laydown

Its not really a comparison,its a fact. Miles was made new music genres,over and over again. Prince added on to what was already there. I wouldnt say this stuff cos of any other reason than it being true.

I love Hendrix too. Prince is a culmination of Miles and Hendrix and James and Funkadelic,to me

..............................................................................................................

'I know I shouldnt put my faith in heroes,but I cant c u any other way' RIP P

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Reply #13 posted 06/16/17 3:11pm

fen

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Yes, I love them both and it’s petty to make comparisons, but there’s little doubt that Miles was one of the towering musical figures in 20th century music as a whole (across all genres). However, bear in mind that Miles had a world-class musical education (Juilliard School), so his approach was always going to be more classically informed, “cerebral” and readily accepted by cultural elites. Prince attained his position by sheer force of talent. Looking at his output as a whole, I think that Miles was more consistent over the course of his career. Jazz purists hated his turn toward funk/rock in the 70s, but the innovations that he made during that period have stood the test of time. His 80s output was a little ropey (with the exception of Aura), but other than that his oeuvre from the early 40s to the late 70s is more or less perfect and unrivalled.

The more you listen to Miles and study his performances, the more you realise that his greatest gift was not necessarily his virtuosity as a player, but his skills as a listener. He’ll prowl the stage listening intently to the various solos, and then bring all of those disparate ideas together into a coherent musical summation. His playing is unbelievably precise and conceptually elegant. For all of his tough-man posturing, it was also remarkably tender at times.

I’m not sure about the context of his statement that he could tell the difference between black and white players by ear, but I doubt that he was arguing that one was necessarily better than the other. I’ve read that black musicians in the scene were often disgruntled that Miles would choose white players over them. He wasn’t the type of person to do that for any reason other than their playing and tone.

Anyway, it’s clear that Miles heard something special in Prince (whether he fully met his potential is open to debate). He said that Prince could become the next Duke Ellington, and considering how much Miles adored Ellington, there was no greater compliment:



[Edited 6/16/17 15:49pm]

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Reply #14 posted 06/17/17 4:05am

olb99

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I think this quote by Debussy fits Miles' music perfectly: "The music is not in the notes, but in the silence between them."

The fact that Miles loved Prince is not a "proof" that Prince was a genius. After all, Miles also loved Kassav', played with Scritti Politti and other average musicians/bands. confused

Anyway, they're both musical geniuses. Yes, Miles was probably more consistent than Prince throughout his career. But Prince was funky. And weird. Miles was never weird. He was dark. And majestic. And he could play the blues like nobody else.

I miss them both immensely.

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