independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Wed 24th Apr 2019 9:43am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > First Ave 8/3/1983 Video is real and being shopped
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 3 of 5 <12345>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #60 posted 05/05/17 12:56am

RODSERLING

Militant said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

But not included as part of the "Purple Rain" Deluxe Set because WHY?


In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!

That's BS, the original THRILLER video sold maybe 2 millions worldwide ; and is out print since 30 years.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #61 posted 05/05/17 12:58am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

laytonian said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I don't want to stream it; I want to own it. pout

. Same here! . It's really disappointing that they first offered it as part of the set. They owe us something else. He filmed every concert. . That additional material should include that rehearsal video that Linda Huntsberry shopped last year. . [Edited 5/4/17 18:56pm]


This was never offered, it was only speculation. They said two DVD's, but the content of either was never mentioned.

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #62 posted 05/05/17 1:03am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

RODSERLING said:

Militant said:


In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!

That's BS, the original THRILLER video sold maybe 2 millions worldwide ; and is out print since 30 years.

Militant was talking about the making of. I had no idea either way but a quick search brought up this article from 2013 : https://www.theguardian.c...sic-videos

They mention 9.5m sales for the making of, accross VHS and DVD.

The Wikipedia item for the Thriller video says that sold 9m copies, so although not 10, still way closer to that than 2.

[Edited 5/5/17 1:05am]

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #63 posted 05/05/17 1:10am

jaypotton

TheEnglishGent said:



RODSERLING said:




Militant said:





In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!




That's BS, the original THRILLER video sold maybe 2 millions worldwide ; and is out print since 30 years.



Militant was talking about the making of. I had no idea either way but a quick search brought up this article from 2013 : https://www.theguardian.c...sic-videos

They mention 9.5m sales for the making of, accross VHS and DVD.

The Wikipedia item for the Thriller video says that sold 9m copies, so although not 10, still way closer to that than 2.

[Edited 5/5/17 1:05am]




eek you trust Wikipedia as a credible source!!! Just kidding lol
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #64 posted 05/05/17 1:13am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

jaypotton said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Militant was talking about the making of. I had no idea either way but a quick search brought up this article from 2013 : https://www.theguardian.c...sic-videos

They mention 9.5m sales for the making of, accross VHS and DVD.

The Wikipedia item for the Thriller video says that sold 9m copies, so although not 10, still way closer to that than 2.

[Edited 5/5/17 1:05am]

eek you trust Wikipedia as a credible source!!! Just kidding lol

lol Certainly wouldn't bet my life on any wikipedia info but I'd say a large percentage of the info is close enough.

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #65 posted 05/05/17 2:52am

RODSERLING

TheEnglishGent said:

RODSERLING said:

That's BS, the original THRILLER video sold maybe 2 millions worldwide ; and is out print since 30 years.

Militant was talking about the making of. I had no idea either way but a quick search brought up this article from 2013 : https://www.theguardian.c...sic-videos

They mention 9.5m sales for the making of, accross VHS and DVD.

The Wikipedia item for the Thriller video says that sold 9m copies, so although not 10, still way closer to that than 2.

[Edited 5/5/17 1:05am]

Of course Militant talked about the making of Thriller. This making of released on VHS in 1984 sold barely 2 millions worldwide, which was already huge at the time, considering the market was only at the beginning.

.

It was NEVER released on dvd (do you realize now the absurdity of the article you quote ?), and by 1986 was already out of print. So please stop spreading fake informations from tabloids and wikipedia.

[Edited 5/5/17 2:54am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #66 posted 05/05/17 3:19am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

RODSERLING said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Militant was talking about the making of. I had no idea either way but a quick search brought up this article from 2013 : https://www.theguardian.c...sic-videos

They mention 9.5m sales for the making of, accross VHS and DVD.

The Wikipedia item for the Thriller video says that sold 9m copies, so although not 10, still way closer to that than 2.

[Edited 5/5/17 1:05am]

Of course Militant talked about the making of Thriller. This making of released on VHS in 1984 sold barely 2 millions worldwide, which was already huge at the time, considering the market was only at the beginning.

.

It was NEVER released on dvd (do you realize now the absurdity of the article you quote ?), and by 1986 was already out of print. So please stop spreading fake informations from tabloids and wikipedia.

[Edited 5/5/17 2:54am]


I did not realise the absurdity of what I said. But I did find two things suggesting over 9 million sales with a 5 second search. You did capitalise, bold and underline the word NEVER though, so what I said must clearly be absurd. I can't argue with something which has been made into capitals, then bolded and underlined. That sort of thing is indisputable. cool

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #67 posted 05/05/17 3:56am

RODSERLING

TheEnglishGent said:

RODSERLING said:

Of course Militant talked about the making of Thriller. This making of released on VHS in 1984 sold barely 2 millions worldwide, which was already huge at the time, considering the market was only at the beginning.

.

It was NEVER released on dvd (do you realize now the absurdity of the article you quote ?), and by 1986 was already out of print. So please stop spreading fake informations from tabloids and wikipedia.

[Edited 5/5/17 2:54am]


I did not realise the absurdity of what I said. But I did find two things suggesting over 9 million sales with a 5 second search. You did capitalise, bold and underline the word NEVER though, so what I said must clearly be absurd. I can't argue with something which has been made into capitals, then bolded and underlined. That sort of thing is indisputable. cool

Sorry for correcting mistakes like that lol

Music video were in the first part of the eighties the biggest sellers, but the market was ridiculously low. Mj never paid what he owed to John Landis, so the making of was put on the shelves. Even Sony wasn't able to re-release it on dvd for Thriller 25 because of this.

Anyway, I'm sure this deal with Spotify will be canceled in some way. Maybe WB can block this release for breach of contract or something. After all, this is WB that distributes the music, which for some part is directly on the album (and so on in the movie).

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #68 posted 05/05/17 4:59am

Marco81

They should release a box set of all First Avenue performances 81-87.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #69 posted 05/05/17 5:05am

laytonian

NewpowerScarfo said:



laytonian said:


rogifan said:
People still buy DVDs? I'm selfishly hoping Apple Music as I'm a subscriber. Also if it goes to Apple it's possible it would be available for purchase on iTunes. Does Spotify have a store where you can purchase media or is it streaming only?

. Yes. I've compared bouncing a streamed video and a Blu-Ray on our new super TV , and the dvd won. No burps, better picture and sound .

My Super TV (Samsung 65 inch Ultra 4K HD KS8000 arrives tomorrow. I'm so excited.


.
You'll love it.
I wanted something better for our home office, but the only good wall limited me to a 55".

But it's not a big room so we are close to it.

.
It's odd having a tablet to control the TV.
.
[Edited 5/5/17 5:08am]
Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #70 posted 05/05/17 5:21am

thedance

avatar

purplethunder3121 said:

I don't want to stream it; I want to own it. pout

yeahthat nod nod

Prince 4Ever. heart
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #71 posted 05/05/17 5:26am

laurarichardso
n

RODSERLING said:

TheEnglishGent said:


I did not realise the absurdity of what I said. But I did find two things suggesting over 9 million sales with a 5 second search. You did capitalise, bold and underline the word NEVER though, so what I said must clearly be absurd. I can't argue with something which has been made into capitals, then bolded and underlined. That sort of thing is indisputable. cool

Sorry for correcting mistakes like that lol

Music video were in the first part of the eighties the biggest sellers, but the market was ridiculously low. Mj never paid what he owed to John Landis, so the making of was put on the shelves. Even Sony wasn't able to re-release it on dvd for Thriller 25 because of this.

Anyway, I'm sure this deal with Spotify will be canceled in some way. Maybe WB can block this release for breach of contract or something. After all, this is WB that distributes the music, which for some part is directly on the album (and so on in the movie).

Why on God's green earth would you want it canceled? I suspect that if WB could have included it with the CD that would have I do not think they can so it was not included. Also I think one of the articles said this was not being shopped to Sportify.

I also do not understand why people can see that you can stream and usually buy content. All of the Prince music on Tidal can be purchased.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #72 posted 05/05/17 5:48am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

RODSERLING said:

Anyway, I'm sure this deal with Spotify will be canceled in some way. Maybe WB can block this release for breach of contract or something. After all, this is WB that distributes the music, which for some part is directly on the album (and so on in the movie).


There isn't a deal to be cancelled yet and certainly not one with Spotify. According to the linked article, Troy Carter is working with the estate to sell streaming rights and the article says it's unlikely to be Spotify. Troy is involved personally with Spotify and it looks like he was hired by them to land exclusive deals and create new content https://www.recode.net/20...-lady-gaga, alhtough that link may be fake tabloid crap wink .

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #73 posted 05/05/17 5:51am

jmfd

I agree with many. Call me old school if you want but...

A physical DVD release will get my $, while a streaming only option will not.


Just curious to those that might know this answer...

Was this show filmed via Betamax camcorders as has been mentioned within this thread?

Knowing the exact original format would be good to know the quality of the source material is and how good any official release might be.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #74 posted 05/05/17 6:27am

Giovanni777

avatar

Well, the 1.09GB MP4 that's been around for a while is pretty damn good quality.

"He's a musician's musician..."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #75 posted 05/05/17 6:44am

nelcp777

Militant said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

But not included as part of the "Purple Rain" Deluxe Set because WHY?


Because Warners don't own it.


It was a private performance for a charity, and the terms of Prince's deal didn't say "Any gig you film automatically belongs to Warners"...... In fact, back in 1983, record labels rarely interfered with live concerts artists did.

In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!

So here's a nice bit of speculation that could be accurate : Carter only just came in as advisor, right? Maybe Warners thought that First Ave inclusion was a done deal when they made that first release of information that mentioned two DVDs. Imagine Carter comes in and says "Nope! This is a separate deal, you want it, you need to pay extra for it!"


Warners don't want to do that, deal collapses at the last minute, we get one DVD with PR Deluxe and then all of a sudden, here's information that Carter is shopping it around.

This is total speculation on my part, but having been in the music industry my whole life, I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how it went down.





Very good points!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #76 posted 05/05/17 6:52am

Drix

I don't even own a dvd-player, blu-ray-player or a cd-player anymore.. so streaming is fine by me, but digital download would be the best.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #77 posted 05/05/17 6:52am

BoraBora


If the Estate will release a CD+DVD will have my money.

If they don't, I'm ready to give my money to Eye or SAB for the same product.

And please don't start anyone with morality, "P would want this or that", "don't feed bootleegers", etc.

Each to its own and to his prority, that for me is a nice factory pressed product.


  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #78 posted 05/05/17 7:49am

RODSERLING

TheEnglishGent said:

RODSERLING said:

Anyway, I'm sure this deal with Spotify will be canceled in some way. Maybe WB can block this release for breach of contract or something. After all, this is WB that distributes the music, which for some part is directly on the album (and so on in the movie).


There isn't a deal to be cancelled yet and certainly not one with Spotify. According to the linked article, Troy Carter is working with the estate to sell streaming rights and the article says it's unlikely to be Spotify. Troy is involved personally with Spotify and it looks like he was hired by them to land exclusive deals and create new content https://www.recode.net/20...-lady-gaga, alhtough that link may be fake tabloid crap wink .

What a real douche I am biggrin

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #79 posted 05/05/17 8:24am

laurarichardso
n

BoraBora said:


If the Estate will release a CD+DVD will have my money.

If they don't, I'm ready to give my money to Eye or SAB for the same product.

And please don't start anyone with morality, "P would want this or that", "don't feed bootleegers", etc.

Each to its own and to his prority, that for me is a nice factory pressed product.


Enjoy until your player breaks and you cannot find a replacement.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #80 posted 05/05/17 8:34am

BoraBora

laurarichardson said:

BoraBora said:


If the Estate will release a CD+DVD will have my money.

If they don't, I'm ready to give my money to Eye or SAB for the same product.

And please don't start anyone with morality, "P would want this or that", "don't feed bootleegers", etc.

Each to its own and to his prority, that for me is a nice factory pressed product.


Enjoy until your player breaks and you cannot find a replacement.



I will do it. Thanks.


  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #81 posted 05/05/17 8:50am

purplethunder3
121

avatar

BoraBora said:

laurarichardson said:

Enjoy until your player breaks and you cannot find a replacement.



I will do it. Thanks.


shrug They still sell plenty of DVD/CD players to plug into your computer since the new lap tops don't come with them internally any more.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #82 posted 05/05/17 10:04am

68686

Heres a nice headliner on macrumors.com about it likely goig to Apple.

https://forums.macrumors....m.2044477/
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #83 posted 05/05/17 10:14am

sonicfreak

avatar

It would be cool if this came out on Netflix and/or a DVD. Amazing show! I was there!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #84 posted 05/05/17 10:52am

NME01

Militant said:



HatrinaHaterwitz said:


But not included as part of the "Purple Rain" Deluxe Set because WHY?





Because Warners don't own it.



It was a private performance for a charity, and the terms of Prince's deal didn't say "Any gig you film automatically belongs to Warners"..... In fact, back in 1983, record labels rarely interfered with live concerts artists did.

In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!

So here's a nice bit of speculation that could be accurate : Carter only just came in as advisor, right? Maybe Warners thought that First Ave inclusion was a done deal when they made that first release of information that mentioned two DVDs. Imagine Carter comes in and says "Nope! This is a separate deal, you want it, you need to pay extra for it!"



Warners don't want to do that, deal collapses at the last minute, we get one DVD with PR Deluxe and then all of a sudden, here's information that Carter is shopping it around.

This is total speculation on my part, but having been in the music industry my whole life, I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how it went down.







Nothing surprises me about music biz deals, but why would WB even think they had the First Avenue video in the first place? They knew they had no original rights, so why was it even in their plan?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #85 posted 05/05/17 10:57am

TheEnglishGent

avatar

NME01 said:

Militant said:


Because Warners don't own it.


It was a private performance for a charity, and the terms of Prince's deal didn't say "Any gig you film automatically belongs to Warners"...... In fact, back in 1983, record labels rarely interfered with live concerts artists did.

In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!

So here's a nice bit of speculation that could be accurate : Carter only just came in as advisor, right? Maybe Warners thought that First Ave inclusion was a done deal when they made that first release of information that mentioned two DVDs. Imagine Carter comes in and says "Nope! This is a separate deal, you want it, you need to pay extra for it!"


Warners don't want to do that, deal collapses at the last minute, we get one DVD with PR Deluxe and then all of a sudden, here's information that Carter is shopping it around.

This is total speculation on my part, but having been in the music industry my whole life, I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how it went down.





Nothing surprises me about music biz deals, but why would WB even think they had the First Avenue video in the first place? They knew they had no original rights, so why was it even in their plan?


Where is the evidence that it was in their plan. There's been nothing more than speculation about it.

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #86 posted 05/05/17 11:28am

charismatic

Militant said:



HatrinaHaterwitz said:


But not included as part of the "Purple Rain" Deluxe Set because WHY?





Because Warners don't own it.



It was a private performance for a charity, and the terms of Prince's deal didn't say "Any gig you film automatically belongs to Warners"..... In fact, back in 1983, record labels rarely interfered with live concerts artists did.

In fact - they didn't always deal with music videos either, and a great example of this is Michael Jackson. He financed the "Thriller" video himself and then was able to do a deal for "The Making of Thriller" on VHS - with exclusivity deals with MTV, Showtime, and a $500k marketing budget from the distributor, Vestron! And although Epic Records got a cut due to them owning the song itself, they had no ownership of the video nor the making of video, which sold almost 10 million copies on it's own!

So here's a nice bit of speculation that could be accurate : Carter only just came in as advisor, right? Maybe Warners thought that First Ave inclusion was a done deal when they made that first release of information that mentioned two DVDs. Imagine Carter comes in and says "Nope! This is a separate deal, you want it, you need to pay extra for it!"



Warners don't want to do that, deal collapses at the last minute, we get one DVD with PR Deluxe and then all of a sudden, here's information that Carter is shopping it around.

This is total speculation on my part, but having been in the music industry my whole life, I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly how it went down.







I'm not sure what standard record contracts were in 70s and 80s, but from what I've heard, even though WB doesn't own the footage they have blocking rights on any releases because they own exclusive rights to release anything recorded during a contract period on record. Now the definition of "record" has been stretched to include anything from DVD, VHS, blue ray etc. The same rights they have to distribute the release of the 1985 concert VHS would apply to any materiel he recorded on video or audio during the contract period.

So I don't know how this guy could be shopping this material to anyone but WB.

Now I'm not challenging anything you said just adding some info that I know about the industry, so I welcome any counter discussion about it!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #87 posted 05/05/17 12:25pm

charismatic

RODSERLING said:



TheEnglishGent said:




RODSERLING said:



That's BS, the original THRILLER video sold maybe 2 millions worldwide ; and is out print since 30 years.



Militant was talking about the making of. I had no idea either way but a quick search brought up this article from 2013 : https://www.theguardian.c...sic-videos

They mention 9.5m sales for the making of, accross VHS and DVD.

The Wikipedia item for the Thriller video says that sold 9m copies, so although not 10, still way closer to that than 2.


[Edited 5/5/17 1:05am]



Of course Militant talked about the making of Thriller. This making of released on VHS in 1984 sold barely 2 millions worldwide, which was already huge at the time, considering the market was only at the beginning.


.


It was NEVER released on dvd (do you realize now the absurdity of the article you quote ?), and by 1986 was already out of print. So please stop spreading fake informations from tabloids and wikipedia.

[Edited 5/5/17 2:54am]



You seem to be discounting the significance of the making of VHS that was released. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but the success of the video triggered
More home video releases Michael made a heep of money off the VHS and video.

From a Vanity Fair article:
"making of" genre of documentary ("The Making of Filler," as Landis said at the time); helped create a market for VHS rentals and sales, because fans were desperate to see it when they wanted, rather than at the will of TV stations; and, in 2009, became the first music video to be inducted into the Library of Congress's National Film Registry.

So even if they only sold a measly 2 million copies world wide as you say, maybe that's because VHS hadn't made it into every household at that time. Who knows entirely but if it was 2 millions, it was more than any of them expected.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #88 posted 05/05/17 11:20pm

embmmusic

avatar

I need to track down that video again. Whilst not my favourite MJ song (that would be Billie Jean), Thriller is hands down my favourite music video of all time.

Check out The Collector's Guide to Prince on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/p...4ldzxwlEuy
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #89 posted 05/06/17 2:21am

Sydney

If this concert sounds like that "Lets Go Crazy" snippet that was recently shared (which I am sure it will) it will be monumental!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 3 of 5 <12345>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > First Ave 8/3/1983 Video is real and being shopped