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Thread started 04/20/17 11:07am

Curt

Deliverance has exposed a deep schism on the org.

It is more apparent than ever that we are quickly dividing into two camps when it comes to future releases of Prince's music.

On the one hand, you have those who are trying to respect the way Prince managed releases while he was alive and project that same way of doing business onto his death.

On the other, you have the "give me all the music" folks who believe it all should be released without regard to the way Prince managed his releases while he was alive.

Without judgement, I believe there are flaws on both sides and everyone's worldview will likely impact how they view the issue. Here are a few questions raised time and time again, with some initial thoughts for discussion.

Who should make money off of Prince after his death?

There are those who believe it should be nobody as evidenced by the hate Ian Boxhill has received from this board for releasing the material. But if not him, then who should release material and not receive the same hate? Warner Brother's? The Estate? The way some see it, NOBODY should make money off him as we see all the hate Paisley Park is receiving for charging $500 for the "celebration" when we didn't even pay that much to see HIM at Paisley Park. Why should it be ok for Tyka, Universal, Duane to make money off of Prince releases they had no hand in producing over Ian Boxill who at least was in the room creating with him? I would argue, if you can not accept that somebody will make money off of his releases, then you can not also complain when nothing gets released.

Shouldn't it be all about the music and sharing Prince's gift with the world?

At first, I could not understand the negative comments being made about the PR deluxe tracklist, but the more I read, it became apparent that the negative reactions were usually based on an "I already have that, what a waste" attitude. If the feelings about any new release is based upon whether or not it is already in your collection or not, then it is likely not about sharing his gift for the world. The purposeful and planned release of music over a long period of time is likely the best way to ensure his legacy will be respected for generations to come. A big vault dump in order to round out your personal collection is not in keeping with how Prince managed the release of his own music, but now that he is gone, it can only be accomplished within the apparatus of the music industry (labels, publishers, and others P hated) which will all need to get paid or via "unauthorized" means which would also be against anything P would have wanted.

With no will, everyone has an opinion on what to do and why.

Everyone and noone is right on what to do. Perhaps as someone posted, this is the "organized chaos" he wished for? What is the goal now? What was the goal when he was alive? Making money? Giving to charity? Releasing as much music as possible? Spreading spirituality? Uplifting people of color? Empowering women? Building a legacy? Preventing his music from being released? If he wanted songs in the vault to be released why didn't he do it more than once (Crystal Ball)? Probably all of the above and since we have not seen any comprehensive strategy on how any of these can be achieved in his death, chaos reigns.

So, we can't have it both ways...

Is it disrespectful to support the labels who will be releasing stuff at the estate's consent?

Is it more disprespectful to get anything we can get our hands on released by any tom, dick or harry without regard to who is getting paid?

Is it disrespectful to create an unauthorized recording of a concert? Is it any less disrespectful to download, listen to and share it?

Is it disrespectful of the estate to release songs from the vault that he himself chose not to release? Is it more disprespectful for Prince not to have a plan for what to do with his most valuable asset that he took decades to build?

Either we accept that only the estate should make money off of the vault and then also accept the way and manner in which they choose to release his music, nobody should make money off the vault and be happy not receiving anything or believe that everyone should be able to make money off of the vault and accept a haphazard release of material from various sources that would likely do more harm than good to his legacy.

. . . .

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Reply #1 posted 04/20/17 11:14am

TheEnglishGent

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Things should be authorised and released by the estate. People just going rogue and releasing stuff because they happen to have possession of something really isn't on. Deliverance being released by somone who doesn't legally have the right to release it is no different to something being released by Eye Records.

I'm glad it got released and I'm glad to have it but I'm not going to pay a bootlegger for it. If the estate had given it their support, or if they want to put it out themselves then I'd gladly buy it. I will buy everything that's released officially as I did while Prince was alive.

RIP sad
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Reply #2 posted 04/20/17 11:19am

Genesia

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Do you really think this "schism" is a recent, PPD (Post Prince's Death) phenomenon? It all harkens back to the debate over bootlegs, which has raged unabated for years.

I mean if he did have sex he would break every rule Jehova's have regarding premarital sex so Prince is really just friends with them all anyway.
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Reply #3 posted 04/20/17 11:35am

moonsister

Tyka and her family don't owe me anything, not the truth about what was going on with Prince, and she doesn't control my finances. music
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Reply #4 posted 04/20/17 12:00pm

domainator2010

I would argue, if you can not accept that somebody will make money off of his releases, then you can not also complain when nothing gets released.

Why don't just put everything up for free on the web??

OR b) make us pay, and donate the money to a charity??

...Seems the most logical course of action....?

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Reply #5 posted 04/20/17 12:01pm

Marrk

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I was expecting at least some twangy Banjo on 'Deliverance' confused

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #6 posted 04/20/17 12:10pm

iZsaZsa

Marrk said:

I was expecting at least some twangy Banjo on 'Deliverance' confused



falloff I thought of it too.
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Reply #7 posted 04/20/17 12:16pm

LBrent

Honestly, I just want to enjoy the music without jumping through any hoops. I'm too old and crotchety for that crap.

If and when there are "official" releases from the estate I'll buy them just like I did when P was alive...but in the meantime, there are plenty of ways to hear and even obtain the "unofficial" stuff too, there always has been...and that doesn't necessarily mean paying a bootlegger either.

wink cool

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Reply #8 posted 04/20/17 12:21pm

PurpleDiamonds
1

To hear his new music again just felt good...right or wrong
Kinda got that excitement back similar to when Prince was here....how he could surprise us at times. I miss that.
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Reply #9 posted 04/20/17 12:29pm

ForceofNature

If care has been taken by the people who have the right to act as the bridge between Prince's music and the fans (the estate and those close with Prince), I will happily buy anything and everything. If its a release from someone who worked with Prince and doesn't have the legal right to put it out, I may find "other means" to listen to that material

[Edited 4/20/17 12:29pm]

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Reply #10 posted 04/20/17 12:32pm

Strive

I see no problem with Deliverance since Prince did crazy shit like that all the time and the estate should have had something ready for the first anniversary of Prince's death. They dropped the ball big time.

At the same time, I have no problem with the Paisley Park stuff since there's bills that have to be paid and Prince is no longer alive to subsidize it with his other live performances. Things like Celebration are cool since the estate is trying to do a big Prince style event and there's still smaller things like the weekly dance parties/screenings if you don't have the big cash for the big event.

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #11 posted 04/20/17 12:52pm

bonatoc

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It will soon become obvious that this is a masterpiece on SOTT levels.
In under 15 minutes. EP of the year.

I say let's make a Kickstarter and pay for the trial.
Just to show them how stupid they are for not opening The Vault.
year-over-year marketing plans belong to the past century.

This was a bold, brave and up-yours move,
because they made it public, and now it's all the buzz rage,
but in this precise case the record deserves it.
And therefore the act is justified.

It's not just the music, it's the message.
Prince listened to us, he was hurt at first probably,
but "Deliverance" is the result of harsh commentaries
on his preachings on TRC, little doubt.
And we get this gem of belief in return. Holy (Spirit) Cow.



[Edited 4/20/17 12:58pm]

Africa, Cap'n Crunch, Norma Jean, Sex and Cheerio's
Play my record double speed, feel the climax fit 4 a king
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Reply #12 posted 04/20/17 12:55pm

C0RAZ0N

Whoever gets the money, fine. As long as I paid for the music. It helps to see what went on in his head. Yeah That!
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Reply #13 posted 04/20/17 12:59pm

Astasheiks

avatar

LBrent said:

Honestly, I just want to enjoy the music without jumping through any hoops. I'm too old and crotchety for that crap.

If and when there are "official" releases from the estate I'll buy them just like I did when P was alive...but in the meantime, there are plenty of ways to hear and even obtain the "unofficial" stuff too, there always has been...and that doesn't necessarily mean paying a bootlegger either.

wink cool

Interesting post

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Reply #14 posted 04/20/17 1:02pm

iZsaZsa

bonatoc said:

EP of the year. Holy (Spirit) Cow.

Seconded.
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Reply #15 posted 04/20/17 1:09pm

djThunderfunk

avatar

TheEnglishGent said:

Things should be authorised and released by the estate. People just going rogue and releasing stuff because they happen to have possession of something really isn't on. Deliverance being released by somone who doesn't legally have the right to release it is no different to something being released by Eye Records.

I'm glad it got released and I'm glad to have it but I'm not going to pay a bootlegger for it. If the estate had given it their support, or if they want to put it out themselves then I'd gladly buy it. I will buy everything that's released officially as I did while Prince was alive.


Agreed! I'll buy everything official (TVBOP & 4E on my shelf are proof of that), but I stopped paying for bootlegs back in '98 when I got my first CD burner. I'm glad Deliverance is out there and glad I have it, but I'm not paying for it. I will be in line Day 1 to buy PR Deluxe, for sure.

If nobody makes $$, nothing comes out, the legacy fades. I'll continue to financially support official releases for that reason at the very least.




[Edited 4/20/17 13:11pm]

We were HERE, where were you?
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Reply #16 posted 04/20/17 1:15pm

C0RAZ0N

LBrent said:

Honestly, I just want to enjoy the music without jumping through any hoops. I'm too old and crotchety for that crap.



If and when there are "official" releases from the estate I'll buy them just like I did when P was alive...but in the meantime, there are plenty of ways to hear and even obtain the "unofficial" stuff too, there always has been...and that doesn't necessarily mean paying a bootlegger either.



wink cool


Why, how do u pay him them?? Lol
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Reply #17 posted 04/20/17 1:46pm

bonatoc

avatar

Astasheiks said:

LBrent said:

Honestly, I just want to enjoy the music without jumping through any hoops. I'm too old and crotchety for that crap.

If and when there are "official" releases from the estate I'll buy them just like I did when P was alive...but in the meantime, there are plenty of ways to hear and even obtain the "unofficial" stuff too, there always has been...and that doesn't necessarily mean paying a bootlegger either.

wink cool

Interesting post



I'd pay a bootlegger if he'd give the same amount of net worth in the same proportion Prince gave to charities, relative to the amount he did in his last years, say since the Ten's.

If he gave 50%, then fifty it is.

I wonder if charities accept donations in Bitcoins. That's the only way to make sure the money doesn't get screwed and goes to good deeds indeed.

Plus, we get to mess with them tax collectors, which is always fun.
Well, Bill and Warren are there to prove it's just immoral illegal genius to make profit and take advantage of legislations to avoid tax collecting.

Because it's a shortcut.

Africa, Cap'n Crunch, Norma Jean, Sex and Cheerio's
Play my record double speed, feel the climax fit 4 a king
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Reply #18 posted 04/20/17 2:12pm

JudasLChrist

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This isn't that complex. If there's money to be made from Prince music, it needs to go to support the estate. The Estate is keeping Paisley Park open, and taking care of Prince's archive. For an engineer to 'finish' and expand some recordings he had access to, and then release that as an 'EP'... that's money grubbing.

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Reply #19 posted 04/20/17 2:17pm

LBrent

C0RAZ0N said:

LBrent said:

Honestly, I just want to enjoy the music without jumping through any hoops. I'm too old and crotchety for that crap.

If and when there are "official" releases from the estate I'll buy them just like I did when P was alive...but in the meantime, there are plenty of ways to hear and even obtain the "unofficial" stuff too, there always has been...and that doesn't necessarily mean paying a bootlegger either.

wink cool

Why, how do u pay him them?? Lol

There are plenty of ways to obtain "unofficial" music of all types, including P music, without paying bootleggers for any of it.

And it doesn't take being a rocket scientist to find it.

confused

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Reply #20 posted 04/20/17 2:38pm

lastdecember

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It is at a weird place. I felt that right after PRINCE died there was this obvious "fog" we were in, but right away there was a lot of talk about "get us the music, music now, the vault, who has the keys. In my opinion I don't really feel there is a good amount of fans that are interested in the control but want things in their lifetime which I can agree with and also say "calm down" so I understand that WANT its obvious, hes gone and we want him in our lives still. But as I told someone today who asked me about releases since his death and I said there really was nothing except that 4EVER collection which was a rush release to get sales from holidays, and of course the obvious PR reissue that most likely is coming, but outside of that I think we all may have to accept that WE might not get much that we don't have, and from that I think we will see what fans stick around.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #21 posted 04/20/17 3:11pm

C0RAZ0N

LBrent said:

C0RAZ0N said:

LBrent said: Why, how do u pay him them?? Lol

There are plenty of ways to obtain "unofficial" music of all types, including P music, without paying bootleggers for any of it.

And it doesn't take being a rocket scientist to find it.

confused

;lighten up pussycat, i was just joking.

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Reply #22 posted 04/20/17 3:30pm

lemoncrush19

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as someone who never bought/shared/downloaded any bootleg of any artist in my whole life b4 4/21 (a bootleg virgin so to speak) that's what I think and feel about this right now:

this deliverance ep was sooooo needed. right here. right now.
and yes I've downloaded it the second it was available. for free. and I listen to it since then on repeat. no I'm not ashamed and I would do it again.

it's like a gift from heaven and honestly right now I give a s**t about who could make some dollars with it (it wouldn't have been too much I guess bc the whole internet was floated with free downloads an hour after the announcement).

there are times when it's much more important to reach people's hearts and make them happy than to make money. and I have the feeling this moment is a perfect one to do so and it will help his legacy more than it could damage.

put me into whatever category u like for that ... I'll deal with it.

for the record: I will buy every official release of prince music in future like I did in the past (further best of's I already paid for aside) but till the estate is ready with fighting and starts releasing prince's unheard music I take what I can get.

TY prince 4 ur music, ur love, ur passion, ur faith ... u were my inspiration for as long as I can remember and u will always be ... in so many different ways ... until the end of time 💜💜💜
the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #23 posted 04/20/17 4:10pm

Telecaster5

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The fact that he didn´t leave a will states that he probably tought "once I´m gone, I really don´t care".

On my side I never payed for bootlegs and bought all official releases whenever I could, but I don´t see much of a problem with people who download unrelesead stuff for free, for private use.

If in the future the estate releases serious material for hardcores, will be a different scenario.

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Reply #24 posted 04/20/17 4:13pm

GTsymbolover

I have a very simple strategy, I only purchase Official Prince music, works for me a treat, I know exactly where I stand.
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Reply #25 posted 04/20/17 4:20pm

80tomato

The estate better hurry .I am in my mid fifties and would love to buy anything released...my kids,probably not.....get my drift?

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Reply #26 posted 04/20/17 4:52pm

moonsister

80tomato said:

The estate better hurry .I am in my mid fifties and would love to buy anything released...my kids,probably not.....get my drift?


Yep.
[Edited 4/20/17 17:48pm]
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Reply #27 posted 04/20/17 5:16pm

bonatoc

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JudasLChrist said:

This isn't that complex. If there's money to be made from Prince music, it needs to go to support the estate. The Estate is keeping Paisley Park open, and taking care of Prince's archive. For an engineer to 'finish' and expand some recordings he had access to, and then release that as an 'EP'... that's money grubbing.


I would gladly give my money to the estate (except it seems it's not a real direct B2C relationship, lawyers and all) if I knew the money goes to charity. Not all of it, but I would hate to see Prince's legacy not aligned to what he stood for.

I'm probably blinded by the fact I love the record so much. Sometimes I shudder thinking there was a will in which he wrote he was giving it all to charities, and then someone threw it away.
He earned every cent. I'm sure he wouldn't be too happy at the concept of people living off.

Maybe I find it a redeeming quality because I find it has been done well.
But if the money belongs to someone per law, then just let the damn record out, and take the money and give it to the names on the papers. But a trial? Another one?

You'll pardon my commercial naïveté: like John, I'm so tired, I haven't slept a week.

Africa, Cap'n Crunch, Norma Jean, Sex and Cheerio's
Play my record double speed, feel the climax fit 4 a king
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Reply #28 posted 04/20/17 5:25pm

XxAxX

avatar

bonatoc said:

It will soon become obvious that this is a masterpiece on SOTT levels.
In under 15 minutes. EP of the year.

I say let's make a Kickstarter and pay for the trial.
Just to show them how stupid they are for not opening The Vault.
year-over-year marketing plans belong to the past century.

This was a bold, brave and up-yours move,
because they made it public, and now it's all the buzz rage,
but in this precise case the record deserves it.
And therefore the act is justified.

It's not just the music, it's the message.
Prince listened to us, he was hurt at first probably,
but "Deliverance" is the result of harsh commentaries
on his preachings on TRC, little doubt.
And we get this gem of belief in return. Holy (Spirit) Cow.



[Edited 4/20/17 12:58pm]



agree

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Reply #29 posted 04/20/17 5:27pm

XxAxX

avatar

lemoncrush19 said:

as someone who never bought/shared/downloaded any bootleg of any artist in my whole life b4 4/21 (a bootleg virgin so to speak) that's what I think and feel about this right now: this deliverance ep was soooooooo needed. right here. right now. and yes I've downloaded it the second it was available. for free. and I listen to it since then on repeat. no I'm not ashamed and I would do it again. it's like a gift from heaven and honestly right now I give a s**t about who could make some dollars with it (it wouldn't have been too much I guess bc the whole internet was floated with free downloads an hour after the announcement). there are times when it's much more important to reach people's hearts and make them happy than to make money. and I have the feeling this moment is a perfect one to do so and it will help his legacy more than it could damage. put me into whatever category u like for that ... I'll deal with it. for the record: I will buy every official release of prince music in future like I did in the past (further best of's I already paid for aside) but till the estate is ready with fighting and starts releasing prince's unheard music I take what I can get. TY prince 4 ur music, ur love, ur passion, ur faith ... u were my inspiration for as long as I can remember and u will always be ... in so many different ways ... until the end of time 💜💜💜

seconded. all that.

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