independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Our Destiny & RoadHouse Garden - weren't these for a separate album project....
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 2 12>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 04/20/17 5:33am

PURPLEIZED3121

Our Destiny & RoadHouse Garden - weren't these for a separate album project....

..thought these were set for a seperate Prince & The Revolution album called Road House Garden? rather than being part of the Purple Rain out-takes? I am sure Wendy mentioned this last year?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 04/20/17 7:09am

leadline

avatar

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

..thought these were set for a seperate Prince & The Revolution album called Road House Garden? rather than being part of the Purple Rain out-takes? I am sure Wendy mentioned this last year?


Those songs were recorded during Around The World In A Day sessions and then considered for Roadhouse Garden itself.

[Edited 4/20/17 7:32am]

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 04/20/17 7:25am

OldFriends4Sal
e

there was never any connection to Around the World in a Day that I know of.

The songs were connected to a Roadhouse Garden album

I believe there is a painting by a famous artist of Prince that was to be used for the album cover

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 04/20/17 7:31am

darkroman

It was reported on Prince's website years ago that he was getting the Revolution together to finish and release Roadhouse Garden.

.

From memory the article went on to say that Wendy and Lisa refused to take part so the project was shelved - after all without Wendy and Lisa it wouldn't be a full proper Revolution project.

.

I'm happy to find the reference.

.

I think it was on Love4OneAnother.com around 1998/99.

.

lol lol lol lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 04/20/17 7:42am

OldFriends4Sal
e

darkroman said:

It was reported on Prince's website years ago that he was getting the Revolution together to finish and release Roadhouse Garden.

.

From memory the article went on to say that Wendy and Lisa refused to take part so the project was shelved - after all without Wendy and Lisa it wouldn't be a full proper Revolution project.

.

I'm happy to find the reference.

.

I think it was on Love4OneAnother.com around 1998/99.

.

lol lol lol lol

from 1997-1999 Prince was in connection with the Revolution members, talking a lot about them and the times etc in interviews

The reason the Roadhouse Garden album didn't happen, is because Prince said he was not going to pay them for the work. This all happened when things weren't looking so good for Prince, divorcing Mayte, loss of 2 children etc I think Prince was in a really horrible mood during this time. If in 1997/early 98 it would have happened.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 04/20/17 7:49am

Neversin

avatar

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

..thought these were set for a seperate Prince & The Revolution album called Road House Garden? rather than being part of the Purple Rain out-takes? I am sure Wendy mentioned this last year?


There's a finished album between "Purple Rain" and "Around The World In A Day"...
And now it seems some of the tracks from that album are bunched up on the "Purple Rain" Deluxe set, where they don't belong...
Hell, "The Dance Electric" should be a seperate release on CD with all the versions on it; from the first rehearsal take to dub takes to final finished track... All these versions are out there and are on 1 90 minute tape...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 04/20/17 8:02am

iZsaZsa

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

The reason the Roadhouse Garden album didn't happen, is because Prince said he was not going to pay them for the work. This all happened when things weren't looking so good for Prince, divorcing Mayte, loss of 2 children etc I think Prince was in a really horrible mood during this time. If in 1997/early 98 it would have happened.

Do you mean as session musicians? They're a group right. Weren't they supposed to wait for publishing and touring money instead?
What?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 04/20/17 8:11am

OldFriends4Sal
e

iZsaZsa said:

OldFriends4Sale said:
The reason the Roadhouse Garden album didn't happen, is because Prince said he was not going to pay them for the work. This all happened when things weren't looking so good for Prince, divorcing Mayte, loss of 2 children etc I think Prince was in a really horrible mood during this time. If in 1997/early 98 it would have happened.
Do you mean as session musicians? They're a group right. Weren't they supposed to wait for publishing and touring money instead?

I don't know what you mean.

I don't care what situation anyone is in, you were told you were going to work for free, would you trust anything to happen further?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 04/20/17 8:14am

imprimis

The versions of these songs likely to make an official release were those (most extensively) worked on for what were, at the time, sessions for the Dream Factory album in early and mid-1986. The relatively recently circulating studio version of 'Roadhouse Garden' originates from this just this very time period.

.

I believe a true Roadhouse Garden album, apart from what P might have been considering (going as far as doing some limited brush up work in ~late 1997-early 1999 [slightly overdubbing and mixing 'Splash', for instance]), is something of a polite fiction.

.

These two songs are anything but polished, finished tracks, as they were last left in the mid-1980s. I would be cautious to count any late-90s work on them, if these tracks also received that treatment, no matter how well executed, as an authentic final product, if such a thing should happen to wind up PR Deluxe or a future vault release.

.

The original June 1984 live multitracks were revamped and reimagined numerous times between Sept/Oct 1984 and about July 1986. While they were never likely candidates for Around the World in a Day, the material that forms that project is roughly contemporaneous with RH & OD, and it is difficult to imagine that he intentionally recorded these two isolated tracks for a mythical project many years in the future, even if the listening public 'wasn't ready' for this type of material (to paraphrase his explanation for these outtakes).

.

I presume they were written late in the period before all parts of the PR album were finalized, for possible use on a subsequent (most likely the next) album, well before the decision to compile an album like ATWIAD and greatly changing his image/sound were considerations.

.

When I had the opportunity to meet W&L, their way of explaining it is that these songs were meant for the album that became SOTT, which is consistent (in my view, at least) with most of the changes, refinements and overdubs occurring around the DF era.

.

Essentially these songs joined a list of slightly underfed material, held back for further work, and also to accommodate the changes necessary across more than one era, that were never quite at the right moment to make it to the albums that ultimately emerged.

.

For my purposes, a cleaned up version of the 1984 live performance would be the only way to do these two songs proper justice. The studio work on these did not really hit the mark.

.

[Edited 4/20/17 8:54am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 04/20/17 8:14am

FunkiestOne

avatar

leadline said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

..thought these were set for a seperate Prince & The Revolution album called Road House Garden? rather than being part of the Purple Rain out-takes? I am sure Wendy mentioned this last year?


Those songs were recorded during Around The World In A Day sessions and then considered for Roadhouse Garden itself.

[Edited 4/20/17 7:32am]

.

Prince recorded constantly (or at least very often) so there weren't ATIAD sessions, per se.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 04/20/17 8:15am

iZsaZsa

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:



iZsaZsa said:


OldFriends4Sale said:
The reason the Roadhouse Garden album didn't happen, is because Prince said he was not going to pay them for the work. This all happened when things weren't looking so good for Prince, divorcing Mayte, loss of 2 children etc I think Prince was in a really horrible mood during this time. If in 1997/early 98 it would have happened.

Do you mean as session musicians? They're a group right. Weren't they supposed to wait for publishing and touring money instead?



I don't know what you mean.



I don't care what situation anyone is in, you were told you were going to work for free, would you trust anything to happen further?


That's not for free. Publishing/royalities is where the money is at.
What?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 04/20/17 8:20am

paisleypark4

avatar

Susan Rogers stated in an interview few months back saying that these songs were created on the Purple Rain tour. There was a studio that Prince had during the tour and he and the Revolution worked on many tracks including those. Roadhouse and Our Destiny go together as a possible stem of ideas but nothing was finalized. Finally in 1998, Prince announced on Love 4 One Another they were going to possibly work together on an album but Prince wanted to talk religion etc with Wendy and Lisa..they were against it. Thus when asked about the project, Prince stated... "ask Wendy and Lisa" about it.

Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 04/20/17 8:29am

PURPLEIZED3121

thanks so mcuh for the answers there. looks like their inclusion is very much out of place on the deluxe PR set...but I guess we better grab them whilst we can!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 04/20/17 8:32am

OldFriends4Sal
e

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

thanks so mcuh for the answers there. looks like their inclusion is very much out of place on the deluxe PR set...but I guess we better grab them whilst we can!

That is what I say, get it while the getting is hot

Maybe later they will put together a Roadhouse Garden set

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 04/20/17 8:34am

OldFriends4Sal
e

iZsaZsa said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't know what you mean.

I don't care what situation anyone is in, you were told you were going to work for free, would you trust anything to happen further?

That's not for free. Publishing/royalities is where the money is at.

I know all that, but Prince at that point had a track record of not paying people, so whatever the full conversation 'not going to pay you' is a bit sketchy

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 04/20/17 8:41am

iZsaZsa

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:



iZsaZsa said:


OldFriends4Sale said:




I don't know what you mean.



I don't care what situation anyone is in, you were told you were going to work for free, would you trust anything to happen further?



That's not for free. Publishing/royalities is where the money is at.



I know all that, but Prince at that point had a track record of not paying people, so whatever the full conversation 'not going to pay you' is a bit sketchy


I see.
What?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 04/20/17 8:52am

darkroman

paisleypark4 said:

Susan Rogers stated in an interview few months back saying that these songs were created on the Purple Rain tour. There was a studio that Prince had during the tour and he and the Revolution worked on many tracks including those. Roadhouse and Our Destiny go together as a possible stem of ideas but nothing was finalized. Finally in 1998, Prince announced on Love 4 One Another they were going to possibly work together on an album but Prince wanted to talk religion etc with Wendy and Lisa..they were against it. Thus when asked about the project, Prince stated... "ask Wendy and Lisa" about it.

.

Yes, that's how I remember it.

.

lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 04/20/17 9:17am

Romeoblu

Does anyone know if there is in existence a studio version of Our Destiny which has Prince on vocals. It has been claimed that the version to be included on PR deluxe has Lisa on vocals.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 04/20/17 9:20am

Romeoblu

Neversin said:



PURPLEIZED3121 said:


..thought these were set for a seperate Prince & The Revolution album called Road House Garden? rather than being part of the Purple Rain out-takes? I am sure Wendy mentioned this last year?




There's a finished album between "Purple Rain" and "Around The World In A Day"...
And now it seems some of the tracks from that album are bunched up on the "Purple Rain" Deluxe set, where they don't belong...
Hell, "The Dance Electric" should be a seperate release on CD with all the versions on it; from the first rehearsal take to dub takes to final finished track... All these versions are out there and are on 1 90 minute tape...

Neversin.



I would love to know what was on that album, and for it to be released as a stand alone album of it's own.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 04/20/17 9:25am

jaypotton

OldFriends4Sale said:



iZsaZsa said:


OldFriends4Sale said:




I don't know what you mean.



I don't care what situation anyone is in, you were told you were going to work for free, would you trust anything to happen further?



That's not for free. Publishing/royalities is where the money is at.



I know all that, but Prince at that point had a track record of not paying people, so whatever the full conversation 'not going to pay you' is a bit sketchy



I read something recently where Wendy said her and Lisa were happy to fly up to Minneapolis to work with Prince on Roadhouse Garden but they asked if a Prince would pay for flights and hotels and he refused! They didn't think that was fair so the project never happened.
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 04/20/17 10:04am

djThunderfunk

avatar

Neversin said:

Hell, "The Dance Electric" should be a seperate release on CD with all the versions on it; from the first rehearsal take to dub takes to final finished track... All these versions are out there and are on 1 90 minute tape...

Neversin.


Although I have many, if not all, of these versions, they are spread out and in varying degrees of quality...

I WANT THIS TAPE!!

I'd easily buy something like that, cleaned up. Boring as it may be to some, I say it'd be a dream come true.

cool

[Edited 4/20/17 10:09am]

Liberty > Authority
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 04/20/17 10:16am

TrevorAyer

Until warners issues a real tracklist I wouldn't get too excited ...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 04/20/17 10:20am

IstenSzek

avatar

Neversin said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

..thought these were set for a seperate Prince & The Revolution album called Road House Garden? rather than being part of the Purple Rain out-takes? I am sure Wendy mentioned this last year?


There's a finished album between "Purple Rain" and "Around The World In A Day"...
And now it seems some of the tracks from that album are bunched up on the "Purple Rain" Deluxe set, where they don't belong...
Hell, "The Dance Electric" should be a seperate release on CD with all the versions on it; from the first rehearsal take to dub takes to final finished track... All these versions are out there and are on 1 90 minute tape...

Neversin.



is there a tracklist know for this album that slots between PR and ATWIAD?

eek

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 04/20/17 10:36am

LonelyStarfish

OldFriends4Sale said:


there was never any connection to Around the World in a Day that I know of.

The songs were connected to a Roadhouse Garden album


I believe there is a painting by a famous artist of Prince that was to be used for the album cover





Is that the picture of P as a tree in the middle of a street?

As for the 1999 revolution reunion for roadhouse garden; wasn't the problem that P wasn't willing to pay for their flights + accommodation and they weren't willing to spend their own cash in case P changed his mind about the project?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 04/20/17 10:46am

paulludvig

imprimis said:

The versions of these songs likely to make an official release were those (most extensively) worked on for what were, at the time, sessions for the Dream Factory album in early and mid-1986. The relatively recently circulating studio version of 'Roadhouse Garden' originates from this just this very time period.


.


I believe a true Roadhouse Garden album, apart from what P might have been considering (going as far as doing some limited brush up work in ~late 1997-early 1999 [slightly overdubbing and mixing 'Splash', for instance]), is something of a polite fiction.


.


These two songs are anything but polished, finished tracks, as they were last left in the mid-1980s. I would be cautious to count any late-90s work on them, if these tracks also received that treatment, no matter how well executed, as an authentic final product, if such a thing should happen to wind up PR Deluxe or a future vault release.


.


The original June 1984 live multitracks were revamped and reimagined numerous times between Sept/Oct 1984 and about July 1986. While they were never likely candidates for Around the World in a Day, the material that forms that project is roughly contemporaneous with RH & OD, and it is difficult to imagine that he intentionally recorded these two isolated tracks for a mythical project many years in the future, even if the listening public 'wasn't ready' for this type of material (to paraphrase his explanation for these outtakes).


.


I presume they were written late in the period before all parts of the PR album were finalized, for possible use on a subsequent (most likely the next) album, well before the decision to compile an album like ATWIAD and greatly changing his image/sound were considerations.


.


When I had the opportunity to meet W&L, their way of explaining it is that these songs were meant for the album that became SOTT, which is consistent (in my view, at least) with most of the changes, refinements and overdubs occurring around the DF era.


.


Essentially these songs joined a list of slightly underfed material, held back for further work, and also to accommodate the changes necessary across more than one era, that were never quite at the right moment to make it to the albums that ultimately emerged.


.


For my purposes, a cleaned up version of the 1984 live performance would be the only way to do these two songs proper justice. The studio work on these did not really hit the mark.


.

[Edited 4/20/17 8:54am]



Have you heard the studio version? Are you sure there aren't other studio versions you haven't heard.
The wooh is on the one!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 04/20/17 10:55am

darkroman

As promised earlier in this thread, here is some information from Love4oneanother.com from 19th January 1999:



L4OA: what is the status of Roadhouse Garden?

prince : Roadhouse Garden got sidelined 4 a sec but it will take at the most - 3 weex 2 finish..
prince : most of the trax were cool 2 begin with
prince : they just needed minimal production and a mix

L4OA: any titles - or is it a surprise? smile

prince : some titles include...
prince : "Witness 4 the Prosecution"...
prince : and...
prince : "SPLASH"
prince : which was one of my favorites
prince : all the songs that Wendy and Lisa sang on were left off...
prince : of the Crystal Ball package
prince : 2 save 4 a Revolution album



Cheers,

lol lol lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 04/20/17 11:02am

darkroman

Here are some other comments from Prince posted during a chat on love4oneanother.com cira October 1999:


U: Whatever happened to the classic track "empty room" and the video shown at the gold experience tour? -- lineafunk


prince :
"Empty Room" will b released with many other gems on a new complilation called Prince and the Revolution's Roadhouse Garden


U: R there any plans to continue the release of ROADHOUSE GARDEN? --- Arc1Love


prince :
That's a ? better posed 2 Wendy and Lisa at this stage


Hope this helps to give a little insight from a very long time ago!

lol lol lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 04/20/17 11:20am

imprimis

paulludvig said:

imprimis said:

.

Have you heard the studio version? Are you sure there aren't other studio versions you haven't heard.

.

Of course, it is a near certainty that there are a number of alternate versions stemming from the post-PR into the Parade and DF/CB era, some of which may be drastically different from the others, as he (needless to say) tested ideas and evolved his sound over this important period.

.

But my instincts are that we would most likely get the ~mid-1986 versions of them on an official release, which may possibly have been further worked on ~1998.

.

As exquisite as those would be to have in closer-to-finished, pristine quality (admittedly, it may be a tall order to expect multi-/master-sourced vintage outtakes), I don't feel the mellow, artsy spin on the tracks could outshine the original electrofunk energy of the 1984 live performance, and it seems that he dismantled much of that as soon as he began working on the track in the studio later that Fall.

.

(Although, he did improve upon 'All Day, All Night' from the same performance, so perhaps I shouldn't diminish my enthusiasm just yet)

.

[Edited 4/20/17 11:34am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 04/20/17 12:44pm

nelcp777

Romeoblu said:

Neversin said:


There's a finished album between "Purple Rain" and "Around The World In A Day"...
And now it seems some of the tracks from that album are bunched up on the "Purple Rain" Deluxe set, where they don't belong...
Hell, "The Dance Electric" should be a seperate release on CD with all the versions on it; from the first rehearsal take to dub takes to final finished track... All these versions are out there and are on 1 90 minute tape...

Neversin.

I would love to know what was on that album, and for it to be released as a stand alone album of it's own.

You and me both!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 04/20/17 1:28pm

paisleypark4

avatar

darkroman said:

As promised earlier in this thread, here is some information from Love4oneanother.com from 19th January 1999:



L4OA: what is the status of Roadhouse Garden?

prince : Roadhouse Garden got sidelined 4 a sec but it will take at the most - 3 weex 2 finish..
prince : most of the trax were cool 2 begin with
prince : they just needed minimal production and a mix

L4OA: any titles - or is it a surprise? smile

prince : some titles include...
prince : "Witness 4 the Prosecution"...
prince : and...
prince : "SPLASH"
prince : which was one of my favorites
prince : all the songs that Wendy and Lisa sang on were left off...
prince : of the Crystal Ball package
prince : 2 save 4 a Revolution album



Cheers,

lol lol lol

:woship: thank you for the real evidence!

Straight Jacket Funk Affair
Album plays and love for vinyl records.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 2 12>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Our Destiny & RoadHouse Garden - weren't these for a separate album project....