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i've heard him mention rape in a couple of his old songs. i understand he doesn't literally mean it but it still doesn't sound right to blurt it out like that.

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xtralovable - i'm sorry but i'm just gonna have to rape you, now will you get into the car or do i have to drag you.

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lust you always - i will rape you if i must.

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yeah, they're unreleased songs but it seems a little wrong to be so blase about such a horrible act.

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"U drive a man to rape, you know U do..." - U

http://prince.org/msg/7/117732

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

Yeah, it would have been a lot better if he hadn't gone down that road within those songs. All of the excuses about how "it's just a song, it's not real and he wouldn't do that" are bullshit. Just because it's fiction doesn't make it okay, there are plenty of ways to describe your lust for someone without alluding to something as horrible, real, and depressingly frequent as the act of rape. Luckily he seemed to have realized that he crossed the line given that most of those songs went unreleased (or changed, in the case of the rerecorded Xtraloveable)

The Cindy C song has Prince banging on a door, as she tries to get rid of him. Is the Prince character in this song "on the verge of rape?" I see him more as a Pepe Le Pew character, overtaken with lust, obsessed with Cindy C(rawford)

I would give Prince the benefit of the doubt, on songs with the rape metaphor. It probably wouldn't fly today, and is crude to the point of certainly alienating people, which is the risk of using this word now. My take on it is that this is the Dirty Mind Prince, that sings about going down on virgins on their wedding day (Head), Jacking ladies off "for a worthy cause, virginity and menopause. (Jack U Off), asking an interviewer if her pubic hair went all the way up to her belly button and had a Purple Rain era guitar that squirted out a liquid over the audience when he fretted it too hard. He also talked about his sister teaching him about blow jobs (blow job doesn't mean blow) in sister. So the shock factor is the main reason for these lyrics.

So all in all where I see many of Prince's sex songs about relationships (at least) and often about (romantic or committed relationships (ok not hot thing, but you know mainly). SO the rape metaphor is him role-playing and is a way of saying his partner is so attractive, so alluring he cannot stop himself. I always took it that if she said no, it was no.

In Extraloveable, Prince is so "possessed" (to use another similar era song title) he is thinking he can't resist her. He has already used the image of this woman being able to turn his straight mother gay, and his father on even though he is dead. The risk of using these images is real, which is why Prince distanced himself from them rightly or wrongly in his later, post JW conversion years.

[Edited 4/6/17 23:56pm]

I think back then he always tried to push the envelope and damn near light it on fire. He was for shock-value.

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

"...not raped, respected..."

Lady Cab Driver has always been a "cross the line moment" with regards forced or consensual. Prince was a challenging artist..sometimes distasteful, sometimes profound.

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

givegoodlove said:

I think back then he always tried to push the envelope and damn near light it on fire. He was for shock-value.

BartVanHemelen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

Not necessarily. He wasn't monogamous and he broke up with Mayte two years before they divorced.

FullLipsDotNose said:

BartVanHemelen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

Didn't all of that happen after he wrote the song we're talking about? Reprehensible, yes - not relevant to the sequence of event, maybe so.

BartVanHemelen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

It very definitely is. I'm sure Prince didn't see it that wayg, but God knows that man never did see his own behavior for what it was.

BartVanHemelen said:

robertgeorge said:

The Cindy C song has Prince banging on a door, as she tries to get rid of him. Is the Prince character in this song "on the verge of rape?" I see him more as a Pepe Le Pew character, overtaken with lust, obsessed with Cindy C(rawford)

I would give Prince the benefit of the doubt, on songs with the rape metaphor. It probably wouldn't fly today, and is crude to the point of certainly alienating people, which is the risk of using this word now. My take on it is that this is the Dirty Mind Prince, that sings about going down on virgins on their wedding day (Head), Jacking ladies off "for a worthy cause, virginity and menopause. (Jack U Off), asking an interviewer if her pubic hair went all the way up to her belly button and had a Purple Rain era guitar that squirted out a liquid over the audience when he fretted it too hard. He also talked about his sister teaching him about blow jobs (blow job doesn't mean blow) in sister. So the shock factor is the main reason for these lyrics.

So all in all where I see many of Prince's sex songs about relationships (at least) and often about (romantic or committed relationships (ok not hot thing, but you know mainly). SO the rape metaphor is him role-playing and is a way of saying his partner is so attractive, so alluring he cannot stop himself. I always took it that if she said no, it was no.

[Edited 4/6/17 23:56pm]

I have no problem with Prince's sexuality in his music, given that most of the experiences he sang about were implied to be consensual between all parties (even in Sister, despite everyone knowing that incest is gross and wrong). Yeah, he liked to push the envelope, and that's cool, but there is a point in which it can be pushed too far. Like when you sing about wanting to rape someone. If I'm taking this too seriously, then whatever, say what you want to say. But given the amount of people that don't take rape seriously or flat-out blame the victims, it's very uncomfortable to hear a song where Prince reflected that mindset even the slightest bit, even if unintentional or "in character".

mbdtyler said:

robertgeorge said:

The Cindy C song has Prince banging on a door, as she tries to get rid of him. Is the Prince character in this song "on the verge of rape?" I see him more as a Pepe Le Pew character, overtaken with lust, obsessed with Cindy C(rawford)

I would give Prince the benefit of the doubt, on songs with the rape metaphor. It probably wouldn't fly today, and is crude to the point of certainly alienating people, which is the risk of using this word now. My take on it is that this is the Dirty Mind Prince, that sings about going down on virgins on their wedding day (Head), Jacking ladies off "for a worthy cause, virginity and menopause. (Jack U Off), asking an interviewer if her pubic hair went all the way up to her belly button and had a Purple Rain era guitar that squirted out a liquid over the audience when he fretted it too hard. He also talked about his sister teaching him about blow jobs (blow job doesn't mean blow) in sister. So the shock factor is the main reason for these lyrics.

So all in all where I see many of Prince's sex songs about relationships (at least) and often about (romantic or committed relationships (ok not hot thing, but you know mainly). SO the rape metaphor is him role-playing and is a way of saying his partner is so attractive, so alluring he cannot stop himself. I always took it that if she said no, it was no.

[Edited 4/6/17 23:56pm]

I have no problem with Prince's sexuality in his music, given that most of the experiences he sang about were implied to be consensual between all parties (even in Sister, despite everyone knowing that incest is gross and wrong). Yeah, he liked to push the envelope, and that's cool, but there is a point in which it can be pushed too far. Like when you sing about wanting to rape someone. If I'm taking this too seriously, then whatever, say what you want to say. But given the amount of people that don't take rape seriously or flat-out blame the victims, it's very uncomfortable to hear a song where Prince reflected that mindset even the slightest bit, even if unintentional or "in character".

But Sister is okay. Okay if he is the victim.

mbdtyler said:

Just because it's fiction doesn't make it okay,

.

i have never understood that point when it comes to songs and songwriters. nobody craps on an author or screen writer for writing the most horrible things imaginable, or an actor for portraying it on screen, because its just a book or movie. but for some reason when it comes to music supposedly every word out of a singers mouth is supposed to be taken as non fiction truth. why is that? its a bullshit double standard.

.

its just like in the 80s and when heavy metal was being slammed for being satanic and whatever else they were being attacked for. steven king could write a horrible horror story and get praised as an amazing author, but when a band would make song about one of his stories they were satanic and evil.

[Edited 4/7/17 7:36am]

savagedreams said:

BartVanHemelen said:

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

mbdtyler said:

Yeah, it would have been a lot better if he hadn't gone down that road within those songs. All of the excuses about how "it's just a song, it's not real and he wouldn't do that" are bullshit. Just because it's fiction doesn't make it okay, there are plenty of ways to describe your lust for someone without alluding to something as horrible, real, and depressingly frequent as the act of rape. Luckily he seemed to have realized that he crossed the line given that most of those songs went unreleased (or changed, in the case of the rerecorded Xtraloveable)

I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that rape shouldn’t be trivialised, but equally I think that an artist should be permitted to explore any theme whatsoever, including those issuing from darkest corners of their imagination. This is part of the function of art in my view, to examine all aspects of human nature and psychology. With regard to the instances that we are referring to here, I don’t particularly like them simply because they're so unsophisticated and puerile, just juvenile throw away lines from a young Prince working on instinct.

If you really want to upset yourself and wallow in moral outrage though, seek out Sade’s 120 Days of Sodom. That’ll put things into perspective and you’ll soon forget about Prince’s relatively minor infractions.


With regard to Prince’s broader character, like all of us he was complicated and often contradictory. As fond as I am of him, I always felt that there was a streak of cruelty to his personality. We all have light and dark in us. As I said, an artist should be free to explore these internal conflicts, it’s part of what makes art interesting and necessary. We should be thoughtful and responsible about what we create, but I don’t accept any argument for censorship. Also, there’s often a degree of exaggeration when it comes to art, taking vague feelings, inflating them and bringing them to the fore and so on. In any case, suppression and denial is never healthy.

[Edited 4/7/17 16:13pm]

Prince said he was not always a nice guy because he was competitive and that you cannot be nice and be competitive. He said that on Tavis Smiley. She also was around for 4 years before they got married she saw him running around with other women.

fen said:

mbdtyler said:

Yeah, it would have been a lot better if he hadn't gone down that road within those songs. All of the excuses about how "it's just a song, it's not real and he wouldn't do that" are bullshit. Just because it's fiction doesn't make it okay, there are plenty of ways to describe your lust for someone without alluding to something as horrible, real, and depressingly frequent as the act of rape. Luckily he seemed to have realized that he crossed the line given that most of those songs went unreleased (or changed, in the case of the rerecorded Xtraloveable)

I have mixed feelings about this. I agree that rape shouldn’t be trivialised, but equally I think that an artist should be permitted to explore any theme whatsoever, including those issuing from darkest corners of their imagination. This is part of the function of art in my view, to examine all aspects of human nature and psychology. With regard to the instances that we are referring to here, I don’t particularly like them simply because they're so unsophisticated and puerile, just juvenile throw away lines from a young Prince working on instinct.

If you really want to upset yourself and wallow in moral outrage though, seek out Sade’s 120 Days of Sodom. That’ll put things into perspective and you’ll soon forget about Prince’s relatively minor infractions.


With regard to Prince’s broader character, like all of us he was complicated and often contradictory. As fond as I am of him, I always felt that their was a streak of cruelty to his personality. We all have light and dark in us. As I said, an artist should be free to explore these internal conflicts, it’s part of what makes art interesting and necessary. We should be thoughtful and responsible about what we create, but I don’t accept any argument for censorship. Also, there’s often a degree of exaggeration when it comes to art, taking vague feelings, inflating them and bringing them to the fore and so on. In any case, suppression and denial is never healthy.

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked.

Had me right up until the end there, P.

SimonCharles said:

SquirrelMeat said:

"A woman everyday should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked. And if a woman ever said I did. She's a motherfuckin' liar and I'm a set-up kid" - Days of Wild

"...not raped, respected..."

Lady Cab Driver has always been a "cross the line moment" with regards forced or consensual. Prince was a challenging artist..sometimes distasteful, sometimes profound.

And there you go - I know there's a misheard lyric thread going on somewhere - there's mine. "not raped or spanked"...to rhyme with thanked...oh Prince...what were you thinking?

PliablyPurple said:

SimonCharles said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

Didn't all of that happen after he wrote the song we're talking about? Reprehensible, yes - not relevant to the sequence of event, maybe so.

.

Amazing. OP quotes from early 1980s songs, other poster replies with quote from song recorded ten+ years later: not a peep. I point out that Prince continued to disrespect women (Mayte in particular) and suddenly the lamest of excuses get brought out.

laurarichardson said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Isn't announcing he's annulling his marriage to Mayte while he's forced her to sit next to him at the press conference not disrespecting a woman? Isn't having an affair with a fan while being married to Mayte not disrespecting a woman? Etc.

No, he did not force her to sit or do anything. She was perfectly free to get up and leave.

.

Yeah, sure.

laurarichardson said:

I never really heard violent stuff in his music toward women.

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Have you watched Purple Rain?

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.