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Thread started 03/16/17 9:32pm

rogifan

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Did Prince purposely look for band members who were religious/believers?

Might be a stupid question but I noticed a number of band members or artists he worked with were believers or had a religious background. Morris Hayes played in church as did Cora Dunham, Cassie O'Neal does currently and her father was a pastor. Liv Warfield's father was a deacon. Shelby J., Elisa Fiorillo, Tamár Davis, Josh & Hannah Welton are all believers. Shelby mentions God often and religion is a big part of Josh & Hannah's life. Is this something Prince specifically looked for when finding people to work with or was it just more of a coincidence? I know he said faith was a big reason he let Josh Weldon produce him. I wasn't sure if that was a recent thing or or something he always looked for.
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Reply #1 posted 03/16/17 9:39pm

Militant

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In recent years, yeah most definitely.

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Reply #2 posted 03/16/17 10:46pm

robertgeorge

My counter question is are there any members who faked religious piety or exaggerated it in order to be a member?

Prince often talked about the faith of his recent band, when extolling there virtues. I can imagine Tony M or Tommy Barbarella for example being not true believers (have no proof, just a feeling I get).

I think Josh and Cora's faith really sealed the deal.

I blame Larry Graham for this direction change.

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Reply #3 posted 03/16/17 10:56pm

rogifan

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robertgeorge said:

My counter question is are there any members who faked religious piety or exaggerated it in order to be a member?

Prince often talked about the faith of his recent band, when extolling there virtues. I can imagine Tony M or Tommy Barbarella for example being not true believers (have no proof, just a feeling I get).

I think Josh and Cora's faith really sealed the deal.

I blame Larry Graham for this direction change.


That's an interesting question. Though I wonder if Prince would have figured out if someone wasn't for real about it. Josh Welton said when he first met Prince at Paisley they spent 2 hours discussing Jesus. Obviously not hard to figure out that Josh & Hannah were for real about it.
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Reply #4 posted 03/16/17 11:41pm

PeteSilas

don't know, i remember the old Appolonia interview where the question "do you believe in god" was the first thing he said to her.

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Reply #5 posted 03/17/17 11:53am

Menes

rogifan said:

Might be a stupid question but I noticed a number of band members or artists he worked with were believers or had a religious background. Morris Hayes played in church as did Cora Dunham, Cassie O'Neal does currently and her father was a pastor. Liv Warfield's father was a deacon. Shelby J., Elisa Fiorillo, Tamár Davis, Josh & Hannah Welton are all believers. Shelby mentions God often and religion is a big part of Josh & Hannah's life. Is this something Prince specifically looked for when finding people to work with or was it just more of a coincidence? I know he said faith was a big reason he let Josh Weldon produce him. I wasn't sure if that was a recent thing or or something he always looked for.

I think he surrounded himself with individuals who bought into Prince's beliefs/principles about life in general. I dont think this construct was limited to just band members though.There is clear evidence that once you "strayed" ,there was a distinct change in how you were viewed or dealt with. Some things that come to mind are secretive/confidential, non drug users/smokers , belief in God(preferably Christian), traditional family values(ehem), no politics,tireless work ethic, etc. Basically, it was his way or the highway even when you were not "working" in the band. He softened a lot of things later on in life . Age and health will do that to some of us.

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Reply #6 posted 03/17/17 11:56am

rogifan

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Menes said:



rogifan said:


Might be a stupid question but I noticed a number of band members or artists he worked with were believers or had a religious background. Morris Hayes played in church as did Cora Dunham, Cassie O'Neal does currently and her father was a pastor. Liv Warfield's father was a deacon. Shelby J., Elisa Fiorillo, Tamár Davis, Josh & Hannah Welton are all believers. Shelby mentions God often and religion is a big part of Josh & Hannah's life. Is this something Prince specifically looked for when finding people to work with or was it just more of a coincidence? I know he said faith was a big reason he let Josh Weldon produce him. I wasn't sure if that was a recent thing or or something he always looked for.

I think he surrounded himself with individuals who bought into Prince's beliefs/principles about life in general. I dont think this construct was limited to just band members though.There is clear evidence that once you "strayed" ,there was a distinct change in how you were viewed or dealt with. Some things that come to mind are secretive/confidential, non drug users/smokers , belief in God(preferably Christian), traditional family values(ehem), no politics,tireless work ethic, etc. Basically, it was his way or the highway even when you were not "working" in the band. He softened a lot of things later on in life . Age and health will do that to some of us.


Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?
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Reply #7 posted 03/17/17 12:14pm

Menes

rogifan said:

Menes said:

I think he surrounded himself with individuals who bought into Prince's beliefs/principles about life in general. I dont think this construct was limited to just band members though.There is clear evidence that once you "strayed" ,there was a distinct change in how you were viewed or dealt with. Some things that come to mind are secretive/confidential, non drug users/smokers , belief in God(preferably Christian), traditional family values(ehem), no politics,tireless work ethic, etc. Basically, it was his way or the highway even when you were not "working" in the band. He softened a lot of things later on in life . Age and health will do that to some of us.

Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?

Other than Uncle Larry" I have the answer for Prince" Graham, I dont think so. Then again, Larry was never really a "band" member. Prince didn't get into the Jehovah's Witness protection program unitl sometime in 2001(?) so I'm not sure if he would be talking to band members about that prior to that. Maybe he was talking to them about the Seventh Day " The trumpets will blow on the ides of March" Adventist" contingent, but who knows. I do think you had to have some fundamental understanding about his beliefs in God as most of his lyrical content contained quite a bit of references to God.It had to have been known by those who were singing and playing in the band. They were educated people and not grunts from the the local tavern picking up a gig. I however, do not think they took his religious beliefs as seriously as he did . I don't think any of them "converted" if that's what you mean. They certainly went along with the program when it came to the mysterious and secretive nature of the man himself even to this day. I am sure they know lots more than what is being said even now. Some things rubbed off. Others, not so much.

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Reply #8 posted 03/17/17 12:15pm

ladygirl99

I dont see anything wrong with him (this coming from an atheist) surround himself with other people who believes in God. I mean if you are going to spend long hours with people and work with them, you want to do whatever it takes to find common ground with others. You don't want to be around people that are constantly everything you believe in, etc.

I think as long as a person believes in God or read the bible, Prince will give a spot in his circle even non-JW.

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Reply #9 posted 03/17/17 12:22pm

OldFriends4Sal
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I wonder did he begin pushing this more as a result of the Rainbow Children design...

But the 2nd "Rainbow Children" aborted album, he was going to go further into the JW expression, even moving to having worship services @ Paisley Park. I believe the 2nd set of music was pulling more strongly from the JW hymnals. So if this was a go, I suspect he would push for people who were closer to what he was comfortable with as a believer.

Now I also know a lot of Christian denominations are at odds with the JWs doctrine, more specifically how they view Jesus the Christ. So I then suspect that other 'believer-musicians' just bit their tongue to some things.

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What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #10 posted 03/17/17 1:04pm

Menes

OldFriends4Sale said:

I wonder did he begin pushing this more as a result of the Rainbow Children design...

But the 2nd "Rainbow Children" aborted album, he was going to go further into the JW expression, even moving to having worship services @ Paisley Park. I believe the 2nd set of music was pulling more strongly from the JW hymnals. So if this was a go, I suspect he would push for people who were closer to what he was comfortable with as a believer.

Now I also know a lot of Christian denominations are at odds with the JWs doctrine, more specifically how they view Jesus the Christ. So I then suspect that other 'believer-musicians' just bit their tongue to some things.

Image may contain: 1 person

A lot of denominations would be at odds with Prince proclaiming to be a "christian" as they have a private interpretation club membership that requires many checks and balances. I think the perception is that he may have become more religious at some point but Im not sure when that was reflected in his music because he was quite profound from very early on. I would venture to say that some of his earlier work has more allegorical and figurative language dealing with that subject even more so than anything pass 2001.So, if he was getting more "religious" or in tune with whatver that thing was, I can't tell from the more recent lyrics. For the record, The Christ, The Savior, never proclaimed to be that either, so there's that dilemma.

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Reply #11 posted 03/17/17 4:23pm

twinnies

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Yeah, I think Prince most definitely surrounded himself with believers as he was a Christian, himself. That's one of the things I admired most about him.

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Reply #12 posted 03/17/17 4:50pm

OldFriends4Sal
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Menes said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I wonder did he begin pushing this more as a result of the Rainbow Children design...

But the 2nd "Rainbow Children" aborted album, he was going to go further into the JW expression, even moving to having worship services @ Paisley Park. I believe the 2nd set of music was pulling more strongly from the JW hymnals. So if this was a go, I suspect he would push for people who were closer to what he was comfortable with as a believer.

Now I also know a lot of Christian denominations are at odds with the JWs doctrine, more specifically how they view Jesus the Christ. So I then suspect that other 'believer-musicians' just bit their tongue to some things.

15940346_1226084310778094_2091094506844364127_n.jpg?oh=18da684f7373e5f1ebd9f5b82df458aa&oe=595C437B

A lot of denominations would be at odds with Prince proclaiming to be a "christian" as they have a private interpretation club membership that requires many checks and balances. I think the perception is that he may have become more religious at some point but Im not sure when that was reflected in his music because he was quite profound from very early on. I would venture to say that some of his earlier work has more allegorical and figurative language dealing with that subject even more so than anything pass 2001.So, if he was getting more "religious" or in tune with whatver that thing was, I can't tell from the more recent lyrics. For the record, The Christ, The Savior, never proclaimed to be that either, so there's that dilemma.

Yeah. I agree his earlier 80s expression of his belief in Jesus was very 'welcoming' He had even Bobby Z and Dr Fink feeling it.

But back then he seemed to be surrounded by people who had a similar fluid expression. blurred ethnic lines, musical fusions. So it all worked so well then.

In that 2009 interview where he talked about Muslim societies seem so much easier, kind exposes his wrestling with direction.

That last line is debatable lol but I don't get into straight out religious topics anymore(P&R)

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #13 posted 03/17/17 4:51pm

Superfan1984

rogifan said:

Menes said:

I think he surrounded himself with individuals who bought into Prince's beliefs/principles about life in general. I dont think this construct was limited to just band members though.There is clear evidence that once you "strayed" ,there was a distinct change in how you were viewed or dealt with. Some things that come to mind are secretive/confidential, non drug users/smokers , belief in God(preferably Christian), traditional family values(ehem), no politics,tireless work ethic, etc. Basically, it was his way or the highway even when you were not "working" in the band. He softened a lot of things later on in life . Age and health will do that to some of us.

Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?

Josh and Hannah were - I'm pretty sure and definately Bria Valente was. Also, wasn't Manuela? I mean, before she met Prince? I know she wasn't a band mate but I know I'd read that her family were JW's.

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Reply #14 posted 03/17/17 5:04pm

OldFriends4Sal
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Superfan1984 said:

rogifan said:

Menes said: Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?

Josh and Hannah were - I'm pretty sure and definately Bria Valente was. Also, wasn't Manuela? I mean, before she met Prince? I know she wasn't a band mate but I know I'd read that her family were JW's.

I don't think Kirk Donna or Ida were though

I believe Manuella 'converted' when she entered her relationship with Prince. I don't know if she still is.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #15 posted 03/17/17 5:48pm

Menes

Superfan1984 said:

rogifan said:

Menes said: Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?

Josh and Hannah were - I'm pretty sure and definately Bria Valente was. Also, wasn't Manuela? I mean, before she met Prince? I know she wasn't a band mate but I know I'd read that her family were JW's.

I think there was a lot of spirtual conversations in and around the music . It appears from several articles that it wasn't clearly defined early on , but there was "church" being held at various points. I think his time with The Revolution will always exemplify what he went thru all of his years doing. Searching.

Here's an article on at least one band member's religous views prior to Prince becomng a JW.

Prince Guitarist Reflects...nse of ...

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Reply #16 posted 03/17/17 6:11pm

rogifan

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OldFriends4Sale said:



I wonder did he begin pushing this more as a result of the Rainbow Children design...


But the 2nd "Rainbow Children" aborted album, he was going to go further into the JW expression, even moving to having worship services @ Paisley Park. I believe the 2nd set of music was pulling more strongly from the JW hymnals. So if this was a go, I suspect he would push for people who were closer to what he was comfortable with as a believer.




Now I also know a lot of Christian denominations are at odds with the JWs doctrine, more specifically how they view Jesus the Christ. So I then suspect that other 'believer-musicians' just bit their tongue to some things.



Image may contain: 1 person


In that Roland Martin interview Shelby said sometimes she would say "no Prince 1 + 1 does not equal 4. lol My guess is he was sometimes challenged over his beliefs.
Paisley Park is in your heart
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Reply #17 posted 03/17/17 6:20pm

rogifan

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Superfan1984 said:



rogifan said:


Menes said:


I think he surrounded himself with individuals who bought into Prince's beliefs/principles about life in general. I dont think this construct was limited to just band members though.There is clear evidence that once you "strayed" ,there was a distinct change in how you were viewed or dealt with. Some things that come to mind are secretive/confidential, non drug users/smokers , belief in God(preferably Christian), traditional family values(ehem), no politics,tireless work ethic, etc. Basically, it was his way or the highway even when you were not "working" in the band. He softened a lot of things later on in life . Age and health will do that to some of us.



Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?

Josh and Hannah were - I'm pretty sure and definately Bria Valente was. Also, wasn't Manuela? I mean, before she met Prince? I know she wasn't a band mate but I know I'd read that her family were JW's.


Hmmm...I know Josh & Hannah are Christians but I don't think they're JW. They're some evangelical denomination.
Paisley Park is in your heart
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Reply #18 posted 03/17/17 6:36pm

morningsong

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Superfan1984 said:

rogifan said:

Menes said: Though I don't believe many (if any) of his band members were JW were they?

Josh and Hannah were - I'm pretty sure and definately Bria Valente was. Also, wasn't Manuela? I mean, before she met Prince? I know she wasn't a band mate but I know I'd read that her family were JW's.



You'll have to find where you read that because it been said differently ALL the time.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #19 posted 03/18/17 12:53pm

Menes

twinnies said:

Yeah, I think Prince most definitely surrounded himself with believers as he was a Christian, himself. That's one of the things I admired most about him.

I'm sure you know that Prince's proclamation of being a "christian" didn't always fit the definition of other band members who professed to be of the same ideology/faith. Some of the material and shows were in direct contrast with what some thought a "chrisitian" should or should not present themselves as an example of the faith. What one professes out of your mouth doesn't always run parrallel with the innate nature of a particular mind. It caused a bit of discension according to what I've read.

I have never classified him as a "christian". I think they were numerous signs that he leaned more towards religious snycretism that was shrouded in Chiristianity. That religious shroud is ususally cultural/environmental but does not wholly complete the moral compass of a human being. Later on in life, he morphed into more of an ascetic and used the JW protection program as a tool or point of reference. I'm not flaming any particular persuasion but his actions throughout life are well documented and the two cannot be reconciled. This is certainly not to say that changes during the maturity process did not occur later on in life. T'was a struggle.

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Reply #20 posted 03/18/17 1:26pm

OldFriends4Sal
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morningsong said:

Superfan1984 said:

Josh and Hannah were - I'm pretty sure and definately Bria Valente was. Also, wasn't Manuela? I mean, before she met Prince? I know she wasn't a band mate but I know I'd read that her family were JW's.



You'll have to find where you read that because it been said differently ALL the time.

Is it required that a Jehovah's Witness marry another Jehovah's Witness?

From Sex God to Doorstep Bible Basher
Love Gives Pop Legend a New Purple Patch

The Mirror/April 10, 2004
By Nick Webster

Soon after the annulment, Prince, who was once worth £100million, took Manuela with him to Bible study classes with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

After a hush-hush romance, superstar and fan tied the knot in a Jehovah's Witness wedding in Hawaii on New Year's Eve 2001.

A year later, in a private ceremony at the Kingdom Hall in Chanhassen, Minnesota, Prince and Mani were baptised into their new faith in front of the 167-strong congregation.

A small bathtub-sized pool was hired for the occasion. Wearing knee-length robes with swimsuits underneath, they became full members of the church by being immersed in the pool.

Ronald Scofield - one of the elders of the Chanhassen Congregation, Prince's new place of worship - says it was a special day for all.

"Every time one of our members gets baptised it's exciting. But this was exceptionally exciting because it was someone who has made a lot of changes to their life.

"We have watched Prince since he started studying the Bible and noticed a dramatic change. It's something to be very proud of."

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #21 posted 03/18/17 2:10pm

anangellooksdo
wn

Militant said:

In recent years, yeah most definitely.



Exactly. Later on I think he chose people partly for their faith because people with faith at least try to be accountable - and trust was huge to Prince. I think he also wanted to have that common ground with those around him...it's so nice to be able to share about these things...one really has to in order to keep themselves on solid spiritual ground.
~Paisley Park is in your heart~
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Reply #22 posted 03/19/17 5:59pm

Asenath0607

robertgeorge said:

My counter question is are there any members who faked religious piety or exaggerated it in order to be a member?

Prince often talked about the faith of his recent band, when extolling there virtues. I can imagine Tony M or Tommy Barbarella for example being not true believers (have no proof, just a feeling I get).

I think Josh and Cora's faith really sealed the deal.

I blame Larry Graham for this direction change.

Why do you say "blame"? I know that most of us are really just expressing our opinions due to the fact that we really didn't know Prince; but from what has been presented in interviews, didn't it seem like his religious conversion brought some peace to Prince? Didn't it seem as if his faith and conversion assisted him with dealing with some of life's devasting blows? It's just my opinion but I don't believe that his faith stood in the way of him seeking any medical treatment that he may have needed because from what I have read, followers of his faith are permitted to seek medical treatment. Just curious.

if i were to ever write down my life story,
i could truly say with all the fame and glory,
i was just a piece of clay in need of the potter’s hand,
’cause when you whispered in my ear
the words i so now understand
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Reply #23 posted 03/19/17 8:49pm

Deepurple

Asenath0607 said:



robertgeorge said:


My counter question is are there any members who faked religious piety or exaggerated it in order to be a member?

Prince often talked about the faith of his recent band, when extolling there virtues. I can imagine Tony M or Tommy Barbarella for example being not true believers (have no proof, just a feeling I get).

I think Josh and Cora's faith really sealed the deal.

I blame Larry Graham for this direction change.



Why do you say "blame"? I know that most of us are really just expressing our opinions due to the fact that we really didn't know Prince; but from what has been presented in interviews, didn't it seem like his religious conversion brought some peace to Prince? Didn't it seem as if his faith and conversion assisted him with dealing with some of life's devasting blows? It's just my opinion but I don't believe that his faith stood in the way of him seeking any medical treatment that he may have needed because from what I have read, followers of his faith are permitted to seek medical treatment. Just curious.


I know in People magazine Mayte made the comment that JW do not believe in medical intervention...that is totally false! She never got into the faith and it's been over 20 years that she was exposed to it so it seems she has forgotten. Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely go to Doctors and receive medical treatment.
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Reply #24 posted 03/20/17 3:33am

robertgeorge

Asenath0607 said:

robertgeorge said:

My counter question is are there any members who faked religious piety or exaggerated it in order to be a member?

Prince often talked about the faith of his recent band, when extolling there virtues. I can imagine Tony M or Tommy Barbarella for example being not true believers (have no proof, just a feeling I get).

I think Josh and Cora's faith really sealed the deal.

I blame Larry Graham for this direction change.

Why do you say "blame"? I know that most of us are really just expressing our opinions due to the fact that we really didn't know Prince; but from what has been presented in interviews, didn't it seem like his religious conversion brought some peace to Prince? Didn't it seem as if his faith and conversion assisted him with dealing with some of life's devasting blows? It's just my opinion but I don't believe that his faith stood in the way of him seeking any medical treatment that he may have needed because from what I have read, followers of his faith are permitted to seek medical treatment. Just curious.

I guess my expression was clumsy or incomplete (and maybe a little flippant)

The truth is Prince was a grown man, who made a decision after having some spiritual discussions and searching for "the ladder"

I just think that Larry influenced him (probably benevelontly in terms of his intentions) in a way which hurt his music, image and way of thinking (in terms of my preference) but you know as he said in My Name is Prince "Women and fancy clothes, may save your face, bu they won't save your soul."

Of course, as you pointed out (and I think it is a great point) this religion may have helped him out of a dark place, and may have done better for Prince more than I or any other outsiders could undersand.

I always thought the JW stuff did stop him from the hip operation (though I thought Morris Day said he did have it)

[Edited 3/20/17 3:35am]

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Reply #25 posted 03/20/17 5:24am

olb99

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It hasn't always been the case, of course. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Eric Leeds, for example, is an atheist.

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Reply #26 posted 03/20/17 11:14am

Menes

A bit off the beating path... was curious to see who the famous folks were that are JW. One particular person, Lark Voorhies, should probably be visited more often.

Truth about Jehovah's Wit... Witnesses

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Reply #27 posted 03/20/17 11:59am

precioux

In reply to the OP, Alan Leeds stated that the first question Prince asked anyone joining/affiliated with Prince was "Do you believe in God?" And as Alan stated, he doesn't think anyone replied "No." lol

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Reply #28 posted 05/08/17 1:08pm

liljojo

Just from a religious band (Pentecostal and baptist) churches point of view. Trust and believe some of the best musicians come from this background from singers to instrumentalists. Some of you going to lose your minds a little when I say this but it's a lot of singers and talented musicians that would give ANY Prince band a ran for their money including Prince himself. That Prince thing about he play several instruments will not slide in this arena as that's a MUST in the church community biggest bands (Tonex/BSlade, Tye Tribbett and soundcheck, John P. Kee and Inner City) just name a few. If it wasn't for the after church jam sessions (we really don't play gospel music after church service or choir rehearsals) a lot of different sounds and grooves wouldn't have been heard for the secular pop music world. So for Prince who's a band guy to pick church musicians is not a shock. If go back in time motown hired all church musicians to form the funk brothers. Some of the best funky grooves, jazz melodies, rock and pop tunes, and even classical symphonic melodies are all incorporated into our gospel music. You ever listen to the Shirley Caesar, Clark Sisters, Carmen, Hezekiah Walker, Williams Brothers, Donald Lawrence, Albertina Walker, Mississippi Mass choir, Mahalia Jackson (The original MJ lol lol ), and the list goes on, But due to religion a lot of the best musicians die never getting a chance to showcase their talents. Marvin Gaye and other artists that tried to take their talents to mainstream suffered the most due to playing for the secular music was seen as your soul will burn in hell. I really wish some of you can hear a polished gospel band outside of playing gospel music. We will have 11hrs jam sessions with junk food and gatorade or soda on the side and sometimes groove to one song for 4hrs. I know it sounds crazy but that's how you come up with concepts and ideas just jamming and grooving. I'm very Prince witnessed this and it is one of the reasons why he wants my generation and younger to learn how to instruments and not computer programming beats and sample. I remember Prince saying something like "Soon music will get to a point where the sample music will start being sampled" well Prince........ you was right. Now shade at Bryson Tiller but his album,TRAPSOUL, is a great example of sampled music being sampled.

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Reply #29 posted 05/08/17 6:51pm

luvsexy4all

the better question would be...would he work with an outstanding musician REGARDLESS of their religious beliefs?

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Did Prince purposely look for band members who were religious/believers?