1725topp said:

Well if Miriam Makeba's song was the 'inspiration' behind Prince's Colonised Mind (and it is rather obvious that it was, at least musically), perhaps we should also have a look at the lyrics from that song too:

You take drugs to psych your mind
You take wine to forget about time
You create a world of your own
Where the truth will never be known

Well brother don't you know now
That you're killing yourself
And nobody else

Why don't you quit it now
Yeah why don't you quit it know
You better quit it now
I said you better quit it now

Cloud nine no responsability
Your forbidden space feeling good
Running away will never make you
A man
'cause reality 's gonna bring you down

But brother don't you know now
That you're killing yourself
And nobody else

You better quit it now
Why don't you quit it now
Lord have mercy
Why don't you quit it now
Yeah you better quit it now

You got a problem see a doctor
Doctor can't help see your brother
Why don't you try talking to your mama sometime
Remember she brought you into this world

But brother don't you know now
That you're killing yourself
And nobody else

bluegangsta said:

donnyenglish said:

The next lines to the song explain it. Those that do not believe that the universe was created have less respect for god's creations. Prince probably thought it was idiotic for people to believe that this was all the result of some big random explosion.

Big random explosion? It a shame people don't bother to educate themselves, if that's how they articulate it.

This still doesn't explain the concept. Because the earth isn'ta subject of the creation myth, that means everything that currectly exists has always existed?

I thought the creationists believed that god knocked up the earth as is about 7000 years ago, and plate tectonics and erosion aren't real and that glaciers don't cut valleys and volcanoes don't really deposit stuff on the earth's crust?

The way I see 'Colonized Mind' is that Prince presents each root cause (uploads) of the ills (downloads) in this world, which revolves mostly around humans' selfish goals (power, greed, no responsibilities, etc) and its effect on people (i.e. frustration and isolation) a process that can only be reversed with no one but God and his love back in power...

If you look, ur sure gonna find
Throughout mankind's history
A colonized mind
The one in power makes laws
Under which the colonized fall
But without god
It's just the blind leading the blind


As for these specific lines:

Upload: the evolution principal
You see a rock on the shore and say
"it's always been there"
Download: no responsibility
Do what you want nobody cares

The rock could represent those ills and the belief that since those ills aren't new to society they must be part of our nature, thus leading us to abandon any forms of responsibilities for our action and instead let 'nature' take its course (which some of you have already said in different words).

From a biblical point of view, there are some quotes to which Prince's lyrics and reference to a 'rock' could relate to:

1 Peter 2:8

and, "A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

In Matthew 16:23 Jesus compares Satan to a 'stumbling block':

But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

1 Corinthians 8:9

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.


The song may therefore ultimately refer to disobedience to God / the fall of man:

'Under which the colonized fall '

and the idea that humans' instinctive actions are often detrimental to themselves and mankind in general...

[Edited 3/15/17 5:53am]

CherryMoon57, that was also an excellent post. I can only imagine that this is the rare type of thread on the org that Prince would really enjoy.

E319 said:

E319 said:

1725topp said:

Not all people who believe in the existence of a God discount science or the Big Bang Theory. While I identify as Christian, I teach a literature of science class in a summer science program for gifted students. I teach both ninth and eleventh graders, and one of the articles I teach to the ninth graders is Neil DeGrasse Tyson's "In Defense of the Big Bang." I also teach Brecht’s play Galileo, and explain that during Galileo’s debate with Christian leaders Galileo wrote in a letter that "The Bible explains how to go to Heaven not how the Heavens go." And even Einstein stated that "science without religion is lame, and religion without science is blind." As such, while Prince prioritizes religion or his faith in God over science, I don't think that means that Prince was someone who completely discounted science. Thus, while I love "Colonized Mind," even though it is a rip-off of Mariam Makeba’s "Quit It," I never interpreted it as being anti-science but merely asserting that, for him, belief in God gives his life purpose and that morality—loving one’s fellow man—is more important than anything else.

*

Additionally, I know a few Atheists, and they all practice the rule of "loving others as they love themselves" because they think that doing so makes life more efficient and fulfilling. And, I know people who claim to be various religions who treat others like crap. Yet, for me, I like the narrative of Jesus as the best example of love, and I've yet to have anyone give me a better definition of love in any form--essay, poem, novel, song, fortune cookie--than 1 Corinthians 13. Yet, in "Colonized Mind" I think that Prince is asserting that there are just as many people who don't believe in a God who embrace organizations and practices that are not nearly as enlightening as people think they are. Even noted scientist Stephen Jay Gould had to admonish his follow scientists, in his article "The Evolution of Life on Earth," for corrupting the term "evolution" with the notion that mankind is the highest living form and that all life seeks to evolve in the manner of humans, proving that even scientists can be subjective and irrational. Thus, "Colonized Mind" always seemed like an answer to Prince's critics who asserted that by embracing organized religion he was no longer creative or a critical thinker. To this, I’ll simply add that Newton was a Christian and he's considered one of the most brilliant minds humanity has ever produced.

Excellent post!

*

Thanks.

bonatoc said:

Wasn't "evolution" the main scientific alibi
that served as explaning the "normality" of slavery, four centuries ago?

He also mentions digital slavery in the song,
so maybe all of it is more about the many forms of slavery
than cosmic-scale considerations.
Maybe cuz the production's trippy, we tend to hear "Big Bang".

Could this verse be a Brotha statement instead?

I don't know nothing about these things, I'm pink as a panther.

[Edited 3/14/17 21:39pm]

*

I think you have hit on something here, especially if we consider tragedies, such as The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, in which African Americans were allowed to suffer and die in the name of science. And, sadly, science or scientists have just as much history of harming people in the name of science as they do of helping people in the name of science. As such, "Colonized Mind" can be read/interpreted as a mere warning of not making a deity of science or scientists. Again, as one who believes in the existence of a God, I realize that science is very essential in understanding the world. But, I don't think that science--i.e. the manner in which humans understand the physical aspects of reality--is the be all and end all of what life is or what it means to be human. As such, I think, then, that "Colonized Mind" simply asks that listeners consider that there is more to life than just what we can know physically rather than it being an attack on science or the theory of evolution. Again, I believe in the existence of a God. I believe that God spoke the universe into existence. However, I also think that "The Big Bang Theory" provides a clear understanding of how that coming into existence occurred. When God does speak, it’s probably one loud ass bang! I don't think that "The Big Bang Theory" discounts my belief in the existence of a God; it just enables me to understand the physical aspects of my life--the world in which I inhabit. Yet, my belief in a God ensures that I do not blindly follow scientists into another Tuskegee Syphilis tragedy.

Militant said:

Musically a fantastic song.

Lyrically questionable.

When he said "Upload ; a child with no mother. Download ; a hard time showing love" - I can't co-sign. I lost my mother when I was 5. I don't have a hard time showing love in any way shape or form.

I lost my mother when I was 6, raised by my father with 4 brothers until I was about 17. My father was admanant about not having a substitute for our mother, so he rarely had women in the house. So, not much in the way of daily female influence. My summation at this point in my life is that not having that has affected myself as well as my brothers in this regard; a certain inability to openly show affection.

This is where it should be agreed upon that different people will glean different meaning. I remember when I first heard this song...the very first time, I was driving home after buying it. I heard this line, and stopped the car. Thought about it, and remember saying to myself, "damn, that line hit hard for some reason". I then went home, sat on the bed, listened to it again, and started crying. It stated, in a few words, what I had thought all of my life but could not, or would not, articulate. It made me decide to read on the subject, which led me to this book. It really helped me come to grips with what I have been dealing with for the past two decades or so, and the catalyst was this line in this song.

bonatoc said:

Wasn't "evolution" the main scientific alibi
that served as explaning the "normality" of slavery, four centuries ago?

He also mentions digital slavery in the song,
so maybe all of it is more about the many forms of slavery
than cosmic-scale considerations.
Maybe cuz the production's trippy, we tend to hear "Big Bang".

Could this verse be a Brotha statement instead?

I don't know nothing about these things, I'm pink as a panther.

[Edited 3/14/17 21:39pm]

No it was not. Darwin didn't write his book until the 1850s, slavery became illegal in this country in 1864.

The big bang theory came about much later than that, prior to that was the static universe theory in which the idea was that the universe was always as we seen it now.

CherryMoon57 said:

morningsong said:

bonatoc said:

Wasn't "evolution" the main scientific alibi
that served as explaning the "normality" of slavery, four centuries ago?

He also mentions digital slavery in the song,
so maybe all of it is more about the many forms of slavery
than cosmic-scale considerations.
Maybe cuz the production's trippy, we tend to hear "Big Bang".

Could this verse be a Brotha statement instead?

I don't know nothing about these things, I'm pink as a panther.

[Edited 3/14/17 21:39pm]

No it was not. Darwin didn't write his book until the 1850s, slavery became illegal in this country in 1864.

The big bang theory came about much later than that, prior to that was the static universe theory in which the idea was that the universe was always as we seen it now.

*

Yes, but social Darwinism was used to justify The Black Codes and Jim Crow along with many other assertions of white supremacy. So while Darwin's work did not create racism, you cannot deny that his work was used throughout the late 1800s and much of the 1900s to justify white supremacy. Ironically, both religion and science have been used to justify white supremacy. First Europeans stated they had a divine right to subjugate people of color; then, they used science to justify it. So, yes, Darwinism has been a major tool in the oppression of people of color.

1725topp said:

morningsong said:

No it was not. Darwin didn't write his book until the 1850s, slavery became illegal in this country in 1864.

The big bang theory came about much later than that, prior to that was the static universe theory in which the idea was that the universe was always as we seen it now.

*

Yes, but social Darwinism was used to justify The Black Codes and Jim Crow along with many other assertions of white supremacy. So while Darwin's work did not create racism, you cannot deny that his work was used throughout the late 1800s and much of the 1900s to justify white supremacy. Ironically, both religion and science have been used to justify white supremacy. First Europeans stated they had a divine right to subjugate people of color; then, they used science to justify it. So, yes, Darwinism has been a major tool in the oppression of people of color.

Yes, social Darwinism became a construct after the 1850s but it's not the explanation for 400 years of slavery. People tend to find justification in anything for bad behavior.

morningsong said:

1725topp said:

*

Yes, but social Darwinism was used to justify The Black Codes and Jim Crow along with many other assertions of white supremacy. So while Darwin's work did not create racism, you cannot deny that his work was used throughout the late 1800s and much of the 1900s to justify white supremacy. Ironically, both religion and science have been used to justify white supremacy. First Europeans stated they had a divine right to subjugate people of color; then, they used science to justify it. So, yes, Darwinism has been a major tool in the oppression of people of color.

Yes, social Darwinism became a construct after the 1850s but it's not the explanation for 400 years of slavery. People tend to find justification in anything for bad behavior.

*

I agree with your big point that humans have the innate ability to use anything to justify bad behavior. That's why it's so important that when the theologians are standing on one side of the fence and the scientists are standing on the other side of the fence blaming each other for all the bad that happened in human history that we are able to show/document that people have used both religion and science to justify their evil. Even with 400 years of slavery, both religion and science--not Darwinism but various pseudo-scientific notions of human hierarchy--were used to justify slavery.

1725topp said:

bluegangsta said:

Fury said:

bluegangsta said:

Upload: the evolution principal
U c a rock on the shore and say
"it's always been there"

While I'm fairly certain this is based on some idiotic anti-evolution concept - could someone please explain this line to me?

I always thought it was about Plymouth Rock -- that the European migration implied they discovered America

maybe it was, david bowie said that an artists work isn't done until the reciever interprets it.

Fury said:

bluegangsta said:

Upload: the evolution principal
U c a rock on the shore and say
"it's always been there"

While I'm fairly certain this is based on some idiotic anti-evolution concept - could someone please explain this line to me?

I always thought it was about Plymouth Rock -- that the European migration implied they discovered America

Wow I hadn't thought of that. It works.

morningsong said:

1725topp said:

*

I agree with your big point that humans have the innate ability to use anything to justify bad behavior. That's why it's so important that when the theologians are standing on one side of the fence and the scientists are standing on the other side of the fence blaming each other for all the bad that happened in human history that we are able to show/document that people have used both religion and science to justify their evil. Even with 400 years of slavery, both religion and science--not Darwinism but various pseudo-scientific notions of human hierarchy--were used to justify slavery.

It's a shame, isn't it?

*

Yeah, that's the conundrum and frustration of humanity--we are capable of such brilliant beauty and such awful evil.

It's more evidence that Prince's genius did not extended past his musical ability. He was extremely credulous, and believed all manner of woo nonsense.

Lianachan said:

It's more evidence that Prince's genius did not extended past his musical ability. He was extremely credulous, and believed all manner of woo nonsense.

*

Songs like "Party Up," "Sexuality," "Sign 'O' the Times," "Ronnie Talk to Russia," "Uptown," "The Love We Make," "We March," "Uncle Sam," "Paris 1798430," 'Walk Don't Walk," "Starfish and Coffee," "Color," "Live 4 Love," "Right the Wrong," "Baltimore," and many others are just as insightful and poignant as any other socio-political songs you can name. One could argue that few popular artists generated more discussion about indivdiual freedom and socio-political oppression than Prince.

Lianachan said:

It's more evidence that Prince's genius did not extended past his musical ability. He was extremely credulous, and believed all manner of woo nonsense.

...said the avatar of a flying saucer over pyramids.

I guess when you're beautiful, loved and blessed, you look for reasons for "why me, and not somebody else?".

What's the true reason behind so much ability, or genius?
Define talent. Where does it come from? And why were you chosen to be the recipient of so much talent?
You may say it all boils down to Prince's work ethic.
But the question remains: where does the will of producing so much originate? One could argue that after Purple Rain, Prince's childhood ego wounds were more than healed.
Lots of artists experience a lack of inspiration when major success and recognition come their way. Their hunger is fed.

So how a few manage to keep that inner fire burning? I guess if you're subject to this kind of inextinguishable hunger, you're looking for an explanation. And since inspiration is not something tangible, it's no wonder the only plausible reason is to be found in supranatural forces: if you can't prove it, you can't deny it as well.

bonatoc said:

Lianachan said:

It's more evidence that Prince's genius did not extended past his musical ability. He was extremely credulous, and believed all manner of woo nonsense.

...said the avatar of a flying saucer over pyramids.

I guess when you're beautiful, loved and blessed, you look for reasons for "why me, and not somebody else?".

What's the true reason behind so much ability, or genius?
Define talent. Where does it come from? And why were you chosen to be the recipient of so much talent?
You may say it all boils down to Prince's work ethic.
But the question remains: where does the will of producing so much originate? One could argue that after Purple Rain, Prince's childhood ego wounds were more than healed.
Lots of artists experience a lack of inspiration when major success and recognition come their way. Their hunger is fed.

So how a few manage to keep that inner fire burning? I guess if you're subject to this kind of inextinguishable hunger, you're looking for an explanation. And since inspiration is not something tangible, it's no wonder the only plausible reason is to be found in supranatural forces: if you can't prove it, you can't deny it as well.

Great post bonatoc!

E319 said:

bonatoc said:

...said the avatar of a flying saucer over pyramids.

I guess when you're beautiful, loved and blessed, you look for reasons for "why me, and not somebody else?".

What's the true reason behind so much ability, or genius?
Define talent. Where does it come from? And why were you chosen to be the recipient of so much talent?
You may say it all boils down to Prince's work ethic.
But the question remains: where does the will of producing so much originate? One could argue that after Purple Rain, Prince's childhood ego wounds were more than healed.
Lots of artists experience a lack of inspiration when major success and recognition come their way. Their hunger is fed.

So how a few manage to keep that inner fire burning? I guess if you're subject to this kind of inextinguishable hunger, you're looking for an explanation. And since inspiration is not something tangible, it's no wonder the only plausible reason is to be found in supranatural forces: if you can't prove it, you can't deny it as well.

Great post bonatoc!

that's what i wonder, he kept going, kept being productive. I can't even find the energy to complete a song called "we all fall down" which started after prince died, I've got most of it in my head yet i can't just summon the will to complete it. It's a helluva lot harder to do when there are a milliion other things you can do and there is not help. it was hard when i was young but i was on fire, now, all i can do is wonder how Prince did it. He wasn't selling well, his own fans chewed his ass over what he did release and he had no incentive to stay in the studio. I can only put it down to what some voice in Wynton Marsalis' ode to Duke Ellington said, "he was inspired".

bonatoc said:

Lianachan said:

It's more evidence that Prince's genius did not extended past his musical ability. He was extremely credulous, and believed all manner of woo nonsense.

...said the avatar of a flying saucer over pyramids.

I guess when you're beautiful, loved and blessed, you look for reasons for "why me, and not somebody else?".

What's the true reason behind so much ability, or genius?
Define talent. Where does it come from? And why were you chosen to be the recipient of so much talent?
You may say it all boils down to Prince's work ethic.
But the question remains: where does the will of producing so much originate? One could argue that after Purple Rain, Prince's childhood ego wounds were more than healed.
Lots of artists experience a lack of inspiration when major success and recognition come their way. Their hunger is fed.

So how a few manage to keep that inner fire burning? I guess if you're subject to this kind of inextinguishable hunger, you're looking for an explanation. And since inspiration is not something tangible, it's no wonder the only plausible reason is to be found in supranatural forces: if you can't prove it, you can't deny it as well.

The avatar is ironic

So... if your claim is that Prince was very credulous because of his musical genius, then you're going to have to go some. An individual believing in some divine being due to their being conspicuously talented is irrational but fair enough, but that doesn't make them appear on TV talking about chemtrails, for example.

Lianachan said:

The avatar is ironic

So... if your claim is that Prince was very credulous because of his musical genius, then you're going to have to go some. An individual believing in some divine being due to their being conspicuously talented is irrational but fair enough, but that doesn't make them appear on TV talking about chemtrails, for example.

I'm with you on this one. I was deeply disappointed about it.
But again, this is not your average Joe's life.

When the "One Song" came out, I was like "Houston, we lost him".
But then years later there is yeswecode, and Baltimore,
which are pretty pragmatic, realistic, generous moves.
I mean at some point, he had to sign a big fat check, for some concrete actions.
Not bad for a paranoid koo-koo.

I don't think you can explain everything rationnally. Sure, you can turn love into instinct, pheromones and other scientific proofs, but it does not explain the tears I shed from time to time when listening to the guy, or when I think about a lost love. We're not mere flesh.

When I need to reconcile divine and science, I always go to the Big Bang and the scriptures.
How some writers nailed the Universe's creation so close to what science says, way before the Hubble telescope, is beyond me. I choose to call it "inspiration".
Could have been marijuana-induced, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't explain why some ideas/concepts resonate with almost everyone,
and others are just isolated mind farts.

[Edited 3/22/17 14:06pm]

bonatoc said:

Lianachan said:

The avatar is ironic

So... if your claim is that Prince was very credulous because of his musical genius, then you're going to have to go some. An individual believing in some divine being due to their being conspicuously talented is irrational but fair enough, but that doesn't make them appear on TV talking about chemtrails, for example.

I'm with you on this one. I was deeply disappointed about it.
But again, this is not your average Joe's life.

When the "One Song" came out, I was like "Houston, we lost him".
But then years later there is yeswecode, and Baltimore,
which are pretty pragmatic, realistic, generous moves.
I mean at some point, he had to sign a big fat check, for some concrete actions.
Not bad for a paranoid koo-koo.

I don't think you can explain everything rationnally. Sure, you can turn love into instinct, pheromones and other scientific proofs, but it does not explain the tears I shed from time to time when listening to the guy, or when I think about a lost love. We're not mere flesh.

When I need to reconcile divine and science, I always go to the Big Bang and the scriptures.
How some writers nailed the Universe's creation so close to what science says, way before the Hubble telescope, is beyond me. I choose to call it "inspiration".
Could have been marijuana-induced, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't explain why some ideas/concepts resonate with almost everyone,
and others are just isolated mind farts.

[Edited 3/22/17 14:06pm]

you take the stupidest ideas anyone has, be they rain man or einstein you're gonna be unimpressed. I tell people that most people aren't all that smart and if you consider thinking like baseball player averages, a good hitter is considered good if he hits 33 percent of the time, i think the same goes for people's thinking, i know i've done some stupid shit, i've seen very smart people do retarded shit, you don't take that as the only example of their potential though. I do agree though that, I wouldn't think of prince when i want all answers to all things no more than i would go to michio kaku if i wanted a good song.

ShockMyWire said: