purpleshadow said:

RodeoSchro said:

You have to be kidding. Are you really disappointed because he didn't run through the blues scale in 32nd notes enough for you? Prince soloed in every scale ever created, and did it as well as anyone I know of.

Prince's guitar work was 10 levels above everyone else's, in the studio or live. Get some excellent speakers and a decent system and listen to any album you want, turned up loud. Or listen through high-quality headphones.

There's so much going on in every Prince song. Maybe you just haven't heard it all.

I find his guitar solos buried in the mix far less memorable than what he played live. Just curious.. what's your top 5 Prince guitar solos in studio.

A top 5 list is an impossible exercice when it comes to Prince, but here's my pick of "astounding studio guitar moments"

- Witness 4 The Prosecution
- Shockadelica
- Wonderful Ass (near the end, buried in the mix)
- Joy In Repetition (the raw, dirty sound of the version with the delayed Linn low tom on the intro, not the bland, tiny sound found on the GB album)
- I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man (the instrumental bridge, even more so on the extended unreleased version)

But there's also "Rockhard In A Funky Place", "Shortberry Strawcake", "Dolphin", "The Holy River", "Peach"...

Bear in mind that "live" and "studio" are almost the same thing when it comes to a man that often recorded, overdubbed and mixed a song (if not several) in a single day.

rogifan said:

KaresB said:

.

How can I put this in a way so as not to offend or unnerve...
I'm afraid your knowledge of music, scales and guitarists are rather limited.

Prince was an amazingly gifted all-around musician, composer, producer etc, etc. And an amazingly giving person, as we've only just started to learn about his obsessive philantrophy work.

He was an excellent guitarist too and I love his playing just as much as I love Hendrix or Santana or Jeff Beck or other greats – but don't fool yourself thinking that these (mainly) rock guitarists are anywhere near the leage of giants like John McLaughlin, Attila Zoller, Pat Metheny etc (I could go on for ages).

I admire Prince for a lot of things but when you're examining him only as a guitar player, he was good, but very far from being near the greatest ones. AND IT'S OK. It doesn't take away anything from what a truly unique and amazing wonder he was.

How do we define the greatest? The three guys you mentioned are all (mostly) within the genre of Jazz. Are you essentially making the argument that no (rock) musicians can compare to Jazz musicians?

When it comes to funky rhythm guitar, Prince has to be right up there.

Rainbow Children

Last December

Listen to his albums through headphones, and you will hear just how much awesome guitar work is in there.

Example: Lovesexy. You wouldn't consider that a "guitar" album, but in a lot of ways it is. It's just not full of foreground guitar "solos".

I get a kick out of hearing what Prince does in "The Undertaker" recording, mixing solos, rhythm, varied pedal effects, and those quirky tonal asides that are so unique. He kicks so much butt in the improvisational stream here. I'd say that brand of work could stand up to most major guitarists.

>

Comparing his work to some classical guitarists--of refined touch and top-disciplined technique, however--might yield a different thought, though, but you'd probably be comparing apples to oranges in that kind of instance.

purpleshadow said:

RodeoSchro said:

You have to be kidding. Are you really disappointed because he didn't run through the blues scale in 32nd notes enough for you? Prince soloed in every scale ever created, and did it as well as anyone I know of.

Prince's guitar work was 10 levels above everyone else's, in the studio or live. Get some excellent speakers and a decent system and listen to any album you want, turned up loud. Or listen through high-quality headphones.

There's so much going on in every Prince song. Maybe you just haven't heard it all.

I find his guitar solos buried in the mix far less memorable than what he played live. Just curious.. what's your top 5 Prince guitar solos in studio.

Well, art is subjectiive, LOL. Here are five seven of my favorite studio solos:

1. The Holy River - IMO as good as anything he or anyone else has ever done. My all-time favorite solo
2. Dolphin - Wonderful tone and a definite urgency in his playing. He IS a dolphin in this solo
3. Wall of Berlin - Holy crap is this good. I've played this song for professional rockers who didn't know it was Prince and all they could say was, "Holy shit, who the hell is THAT?!?" What he does from the 2:54 mark on is jaw-droppingly great in its texture, changes and badassery
4. Fury - See #3. Same reaction from pros, so I know it's not just me
5. When Doves Cry - The opening riff on this is legendary in the music world
6. Cinammon Girl - What else could you ask for? The minor pentatonic scale is owned in this one
7. Batdance - Kablam! An explosion of rock that leads into the only time I've ever heard music played sideways

Play these at maximum volume and enjoy!

.

[Edited 2/6/17 13:47pm]

how can anyone say this stuff...we havent heard whats in the vault.....

Kara said:

jayseajay said:

I think this is interesting, because I agree with you, insofar as issues of technique and musical vocabulary goes - and I know far less about music than you evidently do, but I've always been aware that there is pretty limited range of stuff in terms of scale etc going on with P's guitar solos. That said, watching/hearing him let rip on a guitar is still one of the greatest pleasures in my life, and it's not a technical thing, it's an expressive thing...and yes, sometimes he was grandstanding and showing off (the RRHOF is that in spades), but mostly it's the impression that he just opens himself up and a huge wail comes flooding through him, that he's not actually playing anything, something is playing itself through him. The sound he makes is somehow so primal, and ecstastic, and painful, and transcendent, and spiritual and sexual all at the same time. Someone described is here once as 'messianic ejaculate' and I think that's right. It's like the sound of the universe coming. And that's not about technique or scale for me, it much more basic and energetic than that. And I find it truly miraculous.

You've captured my feelings exactly. Beautifully said. I don't care about technical proficiency, no other guitar player moves me like Prince.

KaresB said:

RodeoSchro said:

Prince soloed in every scale ever created, and did it as well as anyone I know of.

Prince's guitar work was 10 levels above everyone else's, in the studio or live.

.

How can I put this in a way so as not to offend or unnerve...
I'm afraid your knowledge of music, scales and guitarists are rather limited.

Prince was an amazingly gifted all-around musician, composer, producer etc, etc. And an amazingly giving person, as we've only just started to learn about his obsessive philantrophy work.

He was an excellent guitarist too and I love his playing just as much as I love Hendrix or Santana or Jeff Beck or other greats – but don't fool yourself thinking that these (mainly) rock guitarists are anywhere near the leage of giants like John McLaughlin, Attila Zoller, Pat Metheny etc (I could go on for ages).

I admire Prince for a lot of things but when you're examining him only as a guitar player, he was good, but very far from being near the greatest ones. AND IT'S OK. It doesn't take away anything from what a truly unique and amazing wonder he was.

No offense taken, no nerves unnerved!

I've heard those you refer to, and sure - they are technically great. Maybe they can play something faster, with more stretches, than Prince ever could. We'll never know for sure.

Probably I should have included qualifiers like "in my opinion" because there is no right or wrong answer here. Everyone has someone whose playing they love the best. For me, it's Prince. For someone else, it might be John McLaughlin. For a third person, it might be a kid who plays in a local garage band. Each person is right for their self.

OK, here's the definitive "amazing guitar solo recor...the studio".

And Batdance!
Of course! Right in front of our nose.

is that him on guitar on LTWBD sonny vocal version???

luvsexy4all said:

is that him on guitar on LTWBD sonny vocal version???

I dunno, but who else could it be?

Plug: Talking about amazing guitar, do you happen to know the Live version from "Return To Zenith"? Heavy stuff.

bonatoc said:

luvsexy4all said:

is that him on guitar on LTWBD sonny vocal version???

I dunno, but who else could it be?

Plug: Talking about amazing guitar, do you happen to know the Live version from "Return To Zenith"? Heavy stuff.

whats date of that show?

bonatoc said:

OK, here's the definitive "amazing guitar solo recor...the studio".

And Batdance!
Of course! Right in front of our nose.

has tony m eva got any cred for his vocals on Call The Law??? quite good...

luvsexy4all said:

bonatoc said:

I dunno, but who else could it be?

Plug: Talking about amazing guitar, do you happen to know the Live version from "Return To Zenith"? Heavy stuff.

whats date of that show?

Newpower Soul Tour, Le Zenith, Paris, 21st August 1998.

• Matrix / Runout: SAB 058
• Matrix / Runout: SAB 059
• Matrix / Runout: SAB 060

I've always loved the very short but fierce and bizarre (since it gets morphed into synth) guitar solo in Miss Thang.

But then again I also love the first solo in The Power Station's "Go to Zero".

[Edited 2/9/17 10:34am]

RodeoSchro said:

KaresB said:

.

How can I put this in a way so as not to offend or unnerve...
I'm afraid your knowledge of music, scales and guitarists are rather limited.

Prince was an amazingly gifted all-around musician, composer, producer etc, etc. And an amazingly giving person, as we've only just started to learn about his obsessive philantrophy work.

He was an excellent guitarist too and I love his playing just as much as I love Hendrix or Santana or Jeff Beck or other greats – but don't fool yourself thinking that these (mainly) rock guitarists are anywhere near the leage of giants like John McLaughlin, Attila Zoller, Pat Metheny etc (I could go on for ages).

I admire Prince for a lot of things but when you're examining him only as a guitar player, he was good, but very far from being near the greatest ones. AND IT'S OK. It doesn't take away anything from what a truly unique and amazing wonder he was.

No offense taken, no nerves unnerved!

I've heard those you refer to, and sure - they are technically great. Maybe they can play something faster, with more stretches, than Prince ever could. We'll never know for sure.

Probably I should have included qualifiers like "in my opinion" because there is no right or wrong answer here. Everyone has someone whose playing they love the best. For me, it's Prince. For someone else, it might be John McLaughlin. For a third person, it might be a kid who plays in a local garage band. Each person is right for their self.

.
No, the artists I mentioned aren't only great technically.

Contrary to popular belief, judging art isn't just (nor primarily) subjective. You need to go to good schools and study a helluva lot about art if you want to be taken seriously as an art critic.

Liking or not liking a piece of art – that's subjective, I accept. That's fine. But judging something, being able to tell whether a piece of art is valuable or not requires a lot of studies.

Only someone with zero art education would dismiss major works by Picasso or Rothko or Miro etc as worthless (stupidly claiming that "I could do that too!"). Same goes for music.

One can of course enjoy music without having any musical education and of course it's valid for them to say "I prefer this to that" or "this touches me for whatever reason".

But that doesn't mean that the value in any piece of music is just a matter of popular, subjective opinion.

If you don't speak a word of Japanese, you might still be able to enjoy how a Japanese poem sounds, but you can't seriously try to judge whether that's a good poem or not.

The same goes for music.

OP - by and large that's right. Most of his brilliant guitar music was done live, whether it was super melodic short solos or more gutsy blues efforts. Here are my top 3 off the top of my head.

1. Blues solo - Rave Un2 the Year 2000

2. Climax solo - Shhh from Hong Kong Rocks 2003

3. Climax solo - Call the Law from Sacrifice of Victor 1993

bonatoc said:

OK, here's the definitive "amazing guitar solo recor...the studio".

And Batdance!
Of course! Right in front of our nose.

Like with so much of his stuff, the definitive versions are played live. (sacrifice of victor part 3 - youtube) Big difference right there!

RodeoSchro said:

You have to be kidding. Are you really disappointed because he didn't run through the blues scale in 32nd notes enough for you? Prince soloed in every scale ever created, and did it as well as anyone I know of.

Prince's guitar work was 10 levels above everyone else's, in the studio or live. Get some excellent speakers and a decent system and listen to any album you want, turned up loud. Or listen through high-quality headphones.

There's so much going on in every Prince song. Maybe you just haven't heard it all.

I really agree with this. There usually is a lot going on in Prince songs, layered vocals and tons of instruments, but sometimes I like listening to his music and just focus on one aspect of the song.

I love how some licks are re-worked. Take the guitar solo from Sheila E's "Dear Michaelangelo" and then hear it slowed down in the Scandalous Sex Suite. It is an amazing solo in the Sheila E song and a complete highlight to hear it slowed down in the suite

purpleshadow said:

He's one of the best guitar players as we know but why didn't he showcase more of what he could do with the guitar in his studio work. I listen to a song like guitar and the guitar solo is so underwhelming compared to what he could do live. Same with most of his songs.. I don't think he has enough memorable guitar solos in his work considering he's one of the best guitar players.

He could've had way more memorable guitar solos in his music if he wanted..

[Edited 2/4/17 13:57pm]

But I also agree that a song like Guitar is very underwhelming considering the title.

He has some great ones recorded, but I think that the guitar solos sound best live. Still, I love hearing them on the recordings. Some of my favorite Prince guitar solos on studio recordings are:

Live 4 Love

LRC

Purple Rain

Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad

Bambi

[Edited 2/11/17 20:57pm]

206Michelle said:

He has some great ones recorded, but I think that the guitar solos sound best live. Still, I love hearing them on the recordings. Some of my favorite Prince guitar solos on studio recordings are:

Live 4 Love

LRC — Whoops, Dez Dickerson on this one...

Purple Rain

Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad

Bambi

bonatoc said:

206Michelle said:

He has some great ones recorded, but I think that the guitar solos sound best live. Still, I love hearing them on the recordings. Some of my favorite Prince guitar solos on studio recordings are:

Live 4 Love

LRC — Whoops, Dez Dickerson on this one...

Purple Rain

Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad

Bambi

Yes, bonatoc, you are correct.

Habibi, Dreamer

fabriziovenerandi said:

Habibi, Dreamer

wasnt Habbibi part of a WHOLE album of hendrix covers????

Because he mainly wrote pop songs?

bonatoc said:

purpleshadow said:

I find his guitar solos buried in the mix far less memorable than what he played live. Just curious.. what's your top 5 Prince guitar solos in studio.

A top 5 list is an impossible exercice when it comes to Prince, but here's my pick of "astounding studio guitar moments"

- Witness 4 The Prosecution
- Shockadelica
- Wonderful Ass (near the end, buried in the mix)
- Joy In Repetition (the raw, dirty sound of the version with the delayed Linn low tom on the intro, not the bland, tiny sound found on the GB album)
- I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man (the instrumental bridge, even more so on the extended unreleased version)

But there's also "Rockhard In A Funky Place", "Shortberry Strawcake", "Dolphin", "The Holy River", "Peach"...

Bear in mind that "live" and "studio" are almost the same thing when it comes to a man that often recorded, overdubbed and mixed a song (if not several) in a single day.

The guitar solo on "She Gave Her Angels" is pretty awesome.

purpleshadow said:

He's one of the best guitar players as we know but why didn't he showcase more of what he could do with the guitar in his studio work. I listen to a song like guitar and the guitar solo is so underwhelming compared to what he could do live. Same with most of his songs.. I don't think he has enough memorable guitar solos in his work considering he's one of the best guitar players.

He could've had way more memorable guitar solos in his music if he wanted..

[Edited 2/4/17 13:57pm]

*

I think you may be raising more of a philosophical question/notion of defining what constitutes a guitar solo. That is--is a guitar solo a moment when the guitar is given center stage while the other instruments are lowered or subdued, or can a guitar solo also be a moment when a guitarist is improvising but that improvising is beneath or mixed equally with the other instruments? As such, what separates Prince from other "guitarists" is that he had the ability to execute and the vision to understand that a brilliant--meaning impactful--solo can be both a guitar performance that is separate from the other instruments and, also, a performance that is played beneath or along with/mixed with the other instruments. For those who want--only look for or hear--a solo that is a "separate" thing/performance, then Prince's soloing can be seen as limited or underwhelming. But, for those of us who understand that Prince didn't have that somewhat limited notion of what a solo is or could be, then we are able to hear Prince's soloing in many songs even when those "solos" are mixed beneath or with the other instruments. That is, we can hear the guitar improvising whether it is doing so alone or with or beneath other instruments. Ultimately, this may also be the case that Prince--because of his range and ability--never had just a "rock" sensibility about what the guitar is, but he had an amalgamated sensibility about all instruments because his musical sensibility was an amalgamated sensibility of rock, blues, gospel, soul, and jazz, which impacts how one understands or defines the act of "soloing."