independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Tue 11th Dec 2018 8:49am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > What was with Rave charting so lowly (number 145) in the UK?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 01/15/17 6:50am

MattyJam

avatar

What was with Rave charting so lowly (number 145) in the UK?

I remember that TGRES was not considered eligible for chart entry in the UK due to too many remixes being included on the CD single (although I think the import CD may have charted).

But why did the album perform so poorly in the UK album chart? He even appeared on TFI Friday and CD:UK to promote the record, and TGRES was A-listed on Radio 2 and got a tonne of airplay at the time. Can anyone shed any light on why Rave performed so dismally over here?

[Edited 1/15/17 6:51am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 01/15/17 7:35am

gandorb

I agree. This doesn't make sense at all. There should have been enough UK fans of Prince at this point in his career (compared to the 2000s) that a major Prince release that is publicized should have done well, at leasat the first couple of weeks. He was so hot in the UK in the late 1980s through mid 1990s that even Come went to #1. It makes me think that somehow there may have been a mistake about the chart information (not necesaarily by you, Mattyjam) or there was a problem in the distribution.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 01/15/17 7:38am

MattyJam

avatar

gandorb said:

I agree. This doesn't make sense at all. There should have been enough UK fans of Prince at this point in his career (compared to the 2000s) that a major Prince release that is publicized should have done well, at leasat the first couple of weeks. He was so hot in the UK in the late 1980s through mid 1990s that even Come went to #1. It makes me think that somehow there may have been a mistake about the chart information (not necesaarily by you, Mattyjam) or there was a problem in the distribution.


This is what I suspected.

I remember a lot of my local music stores at the time didn't stock Rave. I had to travel to my nearest HMV to buy it.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 01/15/17 7:47am

RumAndRaisin

avatar

Copies were given away as a promotional tool for free so the album was eligable to chart, via import it charted at no.145.

TGR WAS eligable to chart, however the release was truly messed up. Despite all the promo, radio plays etc being in November 1999 the physical single came out in Feb 2000.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 01/15/17 8:38am

coldasice

Sad to say, but that album was panned horribly. His use of the Master P Level package was even laughed at. I'm fairly sure the Rave In2 would have never came out, but it was promised with npgmc year 1. I always thought it was fine, it's his breakup album.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 01/15/17 9:03am

MattyJam

avatar

RumAndRaisin said:

Copies were given away as a promotional tool for free so the album was eligable to chart, via import it charted at no.145.

TGR WAS eligable to chart, however the release was truly messed up. Despite all the promo, radio plays etc being in November 1999 the physical single came out in Feb 2000.


Thanks for clearing that up. I knew something had to be awry with that chart position.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 01/15/17 9:04am

MattyJam

avatar

coldasice said:

Sad to say, but that album was panned horribly. His use of the Master P Level package was even laughed at. I'm fairly sure the Rave In2 would have never came out, but it was promised with npgmc year 1. I always thought it was fine, it's his breakup album.


Critically speaking, the album got fairly decent reviews. It was met with hostility by many fans back in the day, but like most Prince albums, a lot of fans seem to have warmed to it in the subsequent years.

I personally think it's a brilliant album with some exquisite songwriting.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 01/15/17 11:28am

IstenSzek

avatar

RumAndRaisin said:

Copies were given away as a promotional tool for free so the album was eligable to chart, via import it charted at no.145.

TGR WAS eligable to chart, however the release was truly messed up. Despite all the promo, radio plays etc being in November 1999 the physical single came out in Feb 2000.


and then the video showed up well after the physical single. it was really bad timing, all of it.

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 01/15/17 7:32pm

databank

avatar

Despite the TV appearances in Europe, I know no one cared in France, and not so many people were truly aware of a new album. Critics were having some sort of a competition about who would diss Prince the most as being the "has-been" of the decade, and Prince had totally lost his appeal to young crowds and even hipsters. It took The Rainbow Children to suddenly make him the hype all over again.

Prince appeared on 3 TV shows in France: one was NPA, which was still a hype program at the time, another was Hit Machine, targeted at teenagers who were already beginning to wonder who this Prince guy was in the first place, and the last one was really a super bad move: it was Tout Lara Fabian, which was this kind of a "pop for 50 y.o. housewives" show: I remember some people making fun of that, like Prince was the new Phil Collins or something. Terrible PR choice, this show.

Add to that a single single (no pun intended), make that single a ballad that was totally against everything that was hip or trendy in 99, add to that a music video that came more than a month after the single was released, and you got your flop equation.

So Far So Pleased, with a cool music video, was the thing that could have saved that album, but unfortunately Stefani's label wouldn't allow it. Undisputed or Hot Wit' U could have competed with the Neptunes' type of music. And more importantly an opportunity was totally lost by NOT rereleasing the Jason Nevins mix of TGRES in SUmmer 2000: it could have been a major club hit, it had everything that was cool at the time, and it could have basically saved the album the way that last minute release of the Sing It Back remix had saved Moloko's second album (if not their career as a whole) the year before.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 01/15/17 7:40pm

CalhounSq

avatar

I blame the braided hairdo!
heart prince I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it prince heart
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 01/17/17 3:02am

Spayne

MattyJam said:

I remember that TGRES was not considered eligible for chart entry in the UK due to too many remixes being included on the CD single (although I think the import CD may have charted).

But why did the album perform so poorly in the UK album chart? He even appeared on TFI Friday and CD:UK to promote the record, and TGRES was A-listed on Radio 2 and got a tonne of airplay at the time. Can anyone shed any light on why Rave performed so dismally over here?

[Edited 1/15/17 6:51am]

TGRES - From my understanding it was chart eligible. It was released by Arista (that was the one that charted) and entered at No. 65 in the UK Chart. Unless that was the import?

.

http://www.officialcharts.com/artist/2343/artist

.

The Official Charts has 3 of his single releases and 2 album releases attributed to "Artist" not Prince.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 01/17/17 3:37am

dodger

databank said:

Despite the TV appearances in Europe, I know no one cared in France, and not so many people were truly aware of a new album. Critics were having some sort of a competition about who would diss Prince the most as being the "has-been" of the decade, and Prince had totally lost his appeal to young crowds and even hipsters. It took The Rainbow Children to suddenly make him the hype all over again.

Prince appeared on 3 TV shows in France: one was NPA, which was still a hype program at the time, another was Hit Machine, targeted at teenagers who were already beginning to wonder who this Prince guy was in the first place, and the last one was really a super bad move: it was Tout Lara Fabian, which was this kind of a "pop for 50 y.o. housewives" show: I remember some people making fun of that, like Prince was the new Phil Collins or something. Terrible PR choice, this show.

Add to that a single single (no pun intended), make that single a ballad that was totally against everything that was hip or trendy in 99, add to that a music video that came more than a month after the single was released, and you got your flop equation.

So Far So Pleased, with a cool music video, was the thing that could have saved that album, but unfortunately Stefani's label wouldn't allow it. Undisputed or Hot Wit' U could have competed with the Neptunes' type of music. And more importantly an opportunity was totally lost by NOT rereleasing the Jason Nevins mix of TGRES in SUmmer 2000: it could have been a major club hit, it had everything that was cool at the time, and it could have basically saved the album the way that last minute release of the Sing It Back remix had saved Moloko's second album (if not their career as a whole) the year before.

I was about to mention this. It was played a LOT on the radio and in the clubs in Liverpool. Was a missed opportunity but wasn't helped by the usual disorganisation; delays, late video and P falling out with Clive Davis.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 01/17/17 4:15am

leecaldon

RumAndRaisin said:

Copies were given away as a promotional tool for free so the album was eligable to chart, via import it charted at no.145.

TGR WAS eligable to chart, however the release was truly messed up. Despite all the promo, radio plays etc being in November 1999 the physical single came out in Feb 2000.

I believe it was at Tower Records in Piccadilly Circus iirc

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 01/17/17 4:35am

jdcxc

MattyJam said:



coldasice said:


Sad to say, but that album was panned horribly. His use of the Master P Level package was even laughed at. I'm fairly sure the Rave In2 would have never came out, but it was promised with npgmc year 1. I always thought it was fine, it's his breakup album.


Critically speaking, the album got fairly decent reviews. It was met with hostility by many fans back in the day, but like most Prince albums, a lot of fans seem to have warmed to it in the subsequent years.

I personally think it's a brilliant album with some exquisite songwriting.



There are a couple of brilliant songs, but the album is uneven. Eye Love U is a modern classic and Tangerine is sweet. He should've found a way to release the Gwen Stefani duet. The Winding Road is odd timing for a cover version (same as One of Us)...so close to the original. And I always got the feeling that he wasn't totally engaged in the concept.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 01/17/17 6:11am

RicoN

avatar

MattyJam said:

I remember that TGRES was not considered eligible for chart entry in the UK due to too many remixes being included on the CD single (although I think the import CD may have charted).

But why did the album perform so poorly in the UK album chart? He even appeared on TFI Friday and CD:UK to promote the record, and TGRES was A-listed on Radio 2 and got a tonne of airplay at the time. Can anyone shed any light on why Rave performed so dismally over here?

[Edited 1/15/17 6:51am]

was he really on TFI Friday? I can't remember that.

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 01/17/17 7:00am

tonyspr

RicoN said:

MattyJam said:

I remember that TGRES was not considered eligible for chart entry in the UK due to too many remixes being included on the CD single (although I think the import CD may have charted).

But why did the album perform so poorly in the UK album chart? He even appeared on TFI Friday and CD:UK to promote the record, and TGRES was A-listed on Radio 2 and got a tonne of airplay at the time. Can anyone shed any light on why Rave performed so dismally over here?

[Edited 1/15/17 6:51am]

was he really on TFI Friday? I can't remember that.

I recall him singing Prettyman.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 01/17/17 7:16am

Spayne

tonyspr said:

RicoN said:

was he really on TFI Friday? I can't remember that.

I recall him singing Prettyman.

Yes absolutely on TFI Friday, he wasn't an interviewee but just played Prettyman at the very end as the titles ran out. You may find it on a Google search.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 01/17/17 7:24am

Spayne

Spayne said:

tonyspr said:

I recall him singing Prettyman.

Yes absolutely on TFI Friday, he wasn't an interviewee but just played Prettyman at the very end as the titles ran out. You may find it on a Google search.

He was also on Top of The Pops performing TGRES. That's available on Youtube down as appearing on RTL.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 01/17/17 7:40am

dodger

Spayne said:

tonyspr said:

I recall him singing Prettyman.

Yes absolutely on TFI Friday, he wasn't an interviewee but just played Prettyman at the very end as the titles ran out. You may find it on a Google search.

He also played Baby Knows but this was broadcast on a later show

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 01/17/17 10:05am

jseven

Clive Davis and Arista messed up. They had prince heavily promote the record overseas and gave out coupons at HMV & others to get the CD for $5.00 BUT in the middle of the week, the charts decided that using the coupon was selling it below cost and thus making all the sales at HMV & other locations INELIGEABLE to chart those sales. Not sure how they didn't know that.

Silence Speaks A Thousand Words.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 01/17/17 10:07am

jseven

http://new.prince.org/msg/7/26198?pr

Silence Speaks A Thousand Words.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 01/17/17 10:25am

jasminejoey

avatar

MattyJam said:

coldasice said:

Sad to say, but that album was panned horribly. His use of the Master P Level package was even laughed at. I'm fairly sure the Rave In2 would have never came out, but it was promised with npgmc year 1. I always thought it was fine, it's his breakup album.


Critically speaking, the album got fairly decent reviews. It was met with hostility by many fans back in the day, but like most Prince albums, a lot of fans seem to have warmed to it in the subsequent years.

I personally think it's a brilliant album with some exquisite songwriting.

This.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 01/17/17 12:35pm

leecaldon

dodger said:

Spayne said:

Yes absolutely on TFI Friday, he wasn't an interviewee but just played Prettyman at the very end as the titles ran out. You may find it on a Google search.

He also played Baby Knows but this was broadcast on a later show

It was the other way around - Baby Knows was played in Nov 99 and Prettyman in Feb 00

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 01/17/17 12:42pm

jaawwnn

avatar

I seem to remember Prince being seen as a bit of a joke and a hasbeen by most of the public at the time. I was quite young and only getting into music and was devouring music magazines and I wasn't reading anything encouraging about him. The 80's revivals didn't really kick off for another year or two (bar the Wedding Singer!). The album might have got middling, even decent-ish reviews but it was very much "if you're a fan check it out" at best.

and that's from an engaged music perspective, from a pop perspective there were no hits so no one bought it, the end. Factor in the distribution problems and it makes sense. Those years were peak gaming the system years CD-sales wise, all about smooth marketing.

[Edited 1/17/17 12:45pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 01/17/17 1:31pm

LondonIrish197
0

I remember a free gift being given away with the album and all those sales were discounted, it may have been a token for money off another purchase in the same shop, that's what I remember happening at the time. I will see what I have on it somewhere, if anything.

Bad luck for him as he did those TV promos so he clearly wanted a hit. I still have the recordings of Baby Knows and The Greatest Romance from Top of the Pops when they were repeated on TOTP2.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 01/18/17 1:27am

RicoN

avatar

tonyspr said:

RicoN said:

was he really on TFI Friday? I can't remember that.

I recall him singing Prettyman.

Thanks, and thanks Spayne, I'll check it out.

Yes, I've probably made a spelling mistake, but I can't be arsed to go back and correc tit.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 01/18/17 7:24am

MendesCity

avatar

Just found this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnOueRZDB_I

Still one of my least favorite singles. It's so boring until the end.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 01/18/17 8:40am

MattyJam

avatar

MendesCity said:

Just found this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnOueRZDB_I



Still one of my least favorite singles. It's so boring until the end.



Completely disagree. I think it was his last truly great single.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 01/21/17 5:31am

RumAndRaisin

avatar

in the UK the album would have gone top ten based on sales, promo was big for the album and radio play was solid. the release was truly messed up by the label in the UK. then releasing the video about 4 months after the single came out? such a shame, the project was designed as a public comeback and WAS one, still Prince got a great upfront payment from arista and made a huge amount of money from it. Number 1 at the bank, not in the charts was his main priority at the time.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 01/21/17 8:36am

StrangeButTrue

avatar

We were so heavily saturated with tunes and albums at the time, Prince releasing a Santana-sequel collaboration album (with the Master P art) was also possibly seen as a gimmick. I still sort of consider that his Duets album despite many solo tracks. My fave song EVER rocks the ending. Seeing Maceo and his band perform Baby Knows live really redeemed that one to me. It's a great album overall.
[Edited 1/21/17 8:38am]
if it was just a dream, call me a dreamer 2
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > What was with Rave charting so lowly (number 145) in the UK?