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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Audiophiles :Analysing the song inventory released by the court. Is it what you expected?
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Reply #60 posted 01/11/17 11:13am

yeahronimo

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rogifan said:

There was a 2006 Bentley listed on one document I saw.

It is in this document as well

This is not music, this is a trip
No, it's not a drug, it's something more hip
Don't need no reefer, don't need cocaine
Purple music does the same to my brain
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Reply #61 posted 01/11/17 5:58pm

laurarichardso
n

InwardJim said:

laurarichardson said:

Nowhere because they do not own anything. I also find it hard to believe Prince would have a lot of stuff that was not copyrighted. One of his assitance said part of her job was making sure things were copyright as soon as they were recorded. If Prince wrote songs for people he appears to have copyrigthed the material.

Writing for and writing with are two very different things. Just like how the publishing and the recording of a song are two very different things. It's possible to own the song but not a specific recording.

Your basis is supposition that that assistant worked to copyright absolutely everything that was recorded during their tenure AND went through the vault to make sure everything was already accounted for. While I am not saying they didn't do their job, combing the vault for anything missed may have been above and beyond that just wasn't accomplished.

We know he wasn't that careful with who was given in house recordings and demos (hence our wealth of boots). He may have been more meticulous or hired people to be in later years, but there is a precedent for him not copyrighting works as soon as they were recorded in the past.

If everything was copyrighted, there would not be able to be new songs come out of nowhere that people have never heard of. The copyright is public record, so we would already know what there was as far as the catalogue goes. To keep things mystery, to keep things hidden, expecially when he started to be careful about what he gave to WB, copyrighting would have shown his hand and given them license to take it all (or at least pursue it).

If they wrote with him they would have a portion of the copyright. If the wrote with him and did not get any portion then they have no say. Either they do or they don’t. I am sure if things get released that other artist who have ownership of will speak up.

“Your basis is supposition that that assistant worked to copyright absolutely everything that was recorded during their tenure AND went through the vault to make sure everything was already accounted for. While I am not saying they didn't do their job, combing the vault for anything missed may have been above and beyond that just wasn't accomplished.”

Why would each assistant he had not have sent the material for copyright during their tenure. In addition, on the Dr. Funk podcast interview with one of Prince’s engineers was hired to bring Paisley Park up to date and he talked about the vault material and so have other engineers. Some said Prince knew exactly were things were located in the Vault and would go back and get stuff all the time to use on projects he was working on. Why would he put stuff in the Vault as a storehouse and not have copyrighted the material? He had more than one publishing company so how do we know that we have seen all the songs. I suspect that this is a list of a portion of his copyright material.

We have a wealth of boots because people stole stuff or he gave stuff away and yes it is possible those songs were not copyrighted but this list we are seeing was done at the end of November and if you look it does list a vault of material that has not had a valuation done yet along with other material items that have not had a value on. I suspect the admin are still cataloguing vault material and anything they find that was not copyrighted will be taken care of before the probate closes.

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Reply #62 posted 01/26/17 5:34pm

SquirrelMeat

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injuredpinky said:

The inventory of songs looks like what's listed in the ASCAP database:

https://mobile.ascap.com/aceclient/AceWeb/#ace/writer/52210040/PRINCE

.

This would not include unreleased items. Also, any "new" song titles you see are just songs from other artists that sampled Prince.


But the Estate list does include unreleased songs, just not all of them.

.
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Reply #63 posted 01/26/17 7:13pm

EddieC

SquirrelMeat said:

injuredpinky said:

The inventory of songs looks like what's listed in the ASCAP database:

https://mobile.ascap.com/aceclient/AceWeb/#ace/writer/52210040/PRINCE

.

This would not include unreleased items. Also, any "new" song titles you see are just songs from other artists that sampled Prince.


But the Estate list does include unreleased songs, just not all of them.

Not very many. I remember back in the late '90s spending time looking at the Library of Congress copyright records that were available online--there were a few unpublished Prince songs that popped up, but not many. Just the ones that he'd for some reason decided to officially submit--I'm guessing because he might have been considering sending them out to other folks or something--but most of the ones I knew about back then were not showing up in the copyright office records. But the works by others that sampled or otherwise incorporated Prince songs were showing up (and until I figured that out I was far more interested in some of those titles. Then, when I realized they weren't new Prince tunes, I was disappointed). I think what we have here is really mainly just those works that were copyrighted--they haven't done a full cataloguing of the vault at all--or if they have, it has nothing to do with this list.

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Reply #64 posted 01/26/17 8:13pm

dance4me3121

The officially released "Pfunk" or "Funk" song isn't even listed on the list.Neither is the unreleased classic "The Line"
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Reply #65 posted 01/27/17 1:58am

DirtyCache

Sorry for the dumb question, but, what does it mean to "BAKE" a tape? What does this actually entitle and I assume it is to preserve the contents?

Thank You In Advance,

DC

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Reply #66 posted 01/27/17 2:28am

laurarichardso
n

EddieC said:



SquirrelMeat said:




injuredpinky said:


The inventory of songs looks like what's listed in the ASCAP database:


https://mobile.ascap.com/aceclient/AceWeb/#ace/writer/52210040/PRINCE


.


This would not include unreleased items. Also, any "new" song titles you see are just songs from other artists that sampled Prince.




But the Estate list does include unreleased songs, just not all of them.




Not very many. I remember back in the late '90s spending time looking at the Library of Congress copyright records that were available online--there were a few unpublished Prince songs that popped up, but not many. Just the ones that he'd for some reason decided to officially submit--I'm guessing because he might have been considering sending them out to other folks or something--but most of the ones I knew about back then were not showing up in the copyright office records. But the works by others that sampled or otherwise incorporated Prince songs were showing up (and until I figured that out I was far more interested in some of those titles. Then, when I realized they weren't new Prince tunes, I was disappointed). I think what we have here is really mainly just those works that were copyrighted--they haven't done a full cataloguing of the vault at all--or if they have, it has nothing to do with this list.


//According to the sibs in the court docs everything has not been valued. I am sure that songs have been copyrighted since 1990's and if not the estate will take care of it now.
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Reply #67 posted 01/27/17 8:00am

djThunderfunk

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DirtyCache said:

Sorry for the dumb question, but, what does it mean to "BAKE" a tape? What does this actually entitle and I assume it is to preserve the contents?

Thank You In Advance,

DC


There's this new thing called google, you'll love it, it's waaaay faster than asking and waiting for an answer. That said:

http://audio-restoration.com/baking.php

Your welcome,

TF

Not dead, not in prison, still funkin'...
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Reply #68 posted 01/27/17 12:34pm

RodeoSchro

This list answers the decades-old controvery surrounding "Hey Hennigan"...or does it? biggrin

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Reply #69 posted 02/07/17 11:40am

amimissinsumth
in

I expected in what appears to be a rush accounting by non-music forensic experts. I agree that the list does not appear to be comprehensive or complete. I do hope all is accounted for, correctly and properly. I especially am interested in the work with Mr Miles Davis which is not listed. Regarding the releasing of work with Mr Davis, Mr Lenny Kravitz, other artists, and the vault, I refer to the Mr/Dr PRN's interview by Mr Kurt Loder (MTV 18 Oct 1999):

PRN:..."there are other issues that come into it, uh, regarding recording with other musicians."
KL:"You got alot of stuff lying around, like sort of, the Lenny Kravitz jams, like with other artists..."
PRN:"Maybe, maybe not. (Laughs).
KL:"People we might know I suspect."
PRN:"Yeah, I, I, I have recorded a lot of things. There again everytime we go to try to give it to some of your friends out in the public then you run the risk of their estates or people affiliated with them coming up and claim their piece. They weren't in the studio, but they want they piece. (Singing)'Everybody gotta get they piece in.'"
KL:"I mean for sure there's the Miles Davis stuff, right I mean, will that stuff ever come out?"
PRN: whistles
KL:"Some day. Perhaps. Maybe not. ..."

Later

KL:"Yeah, if we went into your vaults, they're substantial, what would we find in there."
PRN:"Some amazing jazz work. You'd find the best, most heady tracks that The Revolution recorded. The ones that we thought were too fargone back in the 80s. You'd find the more psychedelic rock version of The Time. You'd find the really erotic Prince.
KL:"Really?"
PRN:"The really erotic, sensual Prince. You'd find, um, you'd find the future."
KL:"What's going to happen with all this stuff? I'm glad it's in a vault somewhere. I'm sure it's not deteriorating. Will it ever come out?"
PRN:"Oh yes, I'll give it away. I'm not going nowhere. I'll be right here."

(No copyright infringement intended on the transcription I did.)

Updated 10 Feb 17 to show news that the Estate negotiated Universal Music to release Mr/Dr PRN's unreleased works.

From BBC-Business:
"Universal said the deal gave it exclusive licensing rights to Prince's "highly anticipated trove of unreleased works". Under the terms of the deal it will be collaborating with the estate "with regard to Prince's vault of prized unreleased works from throughout his career, including outtakes, demos and live recordings".http://www.bbc.com/news/b...s-38927235

This news allays my concerns about the incomplete list. biggrin
[Edited 2/9/17 19:05pm]
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Audiophiles :Analysing the song inventory released by the court. Is it what you expected?