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Reply #60 posted 01/11/17 5:10pm

SoulAlive

luvgirl said:

It's the scene on the balcony. He was sort of day dreaming and he saw the lady's face in his mind. She wasn't depicted as being fat though. It's all very silly. People were just trying to find something to accuse him of, that they had to point out what color she was.


the lady says "Christopher....I miss you" and starts laughing. wink
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Reply #61 posted 01/11/17 7:41pm

chrisslope9

avatar

MD431Madcat said:

the ritz wasn't on 7th ave..

nor was 'the bottom line'..

and Larry knows Prince was too badass to diss! wink

[Edited 1/10/17 12:43pm]

Right. SOB's was on 7th Ave and Niles Rogers played there a lot. Maybe he was talking about him?

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Reply #62 posted 01/12/17 1:22am

MD431Madcat

avatar

wink possibly.. but Nile was big in the late 70s - early 80's... Chic.. Bowie.. sister sledge ect...

chrisslope9 said:

MD431Madcat said:

the ritz wasn't on 7th ave..

nor was 'the bottom line'..

and Larry knows Prince was too badass to diss! wink

[Edited 1/10/17 12:43pm]

Right. SOB's was on 7th Ave and Niles Rogers played there a lot. Maybe he was talking about him?

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Reply #63 posted 01/12/17 1:56am

mechanicalemot
ion17

jcurley said:

KoolEaze said:

When you say selling out ....are you referring to the year 1981, when he played at the Ritz in New York, or 1986, when this interview took place?


I don´t agree with Larry Blackmon (his name is Blackmon, not Blackmoon) but I understand where he´s coming from....he does have a point even though I don´t necessarily agree with him because I felt the same way about Prince in 1986, and I wasn´t the only one (orger VainAndy might agree with me if he reads this).


Remember that scene in UTCM where Christopher has a nightmare of a rather big , black woman? Even some of his later friends such as Spike Lee found that scene a bit odd, to say the least.


Also , he was more of a pop act at that time than a Funk act but when he started most people thought he was a Funk (and to some extent P-Funk and Funk Rock, RnB) act. But with the Revolution, especially Lisa and Wendy, he became more of a pop phenomenon than part of black music.


That´s also when you´d find his albums in the pop section and no longer in the Funk shelves at record stores, and keep in mind that he kept his racial background a bit vague in the mid 80s.


.


I said I don´t necessarily agree with Larry because I´m sure that Prince , deep in his heart but also in his actions and views, was always part of black and Funk culture, but he also knew that he could transcend such boundaries.


Remember when he became "blacker" during the Parade tour because he made Wally and Greg part of the extended Revolution and Lisa and Wendy, especially Wendy, were quite pissed about it and Wendy said something in the vein of "We could have become the next Beatles .....instead of this".


I love Wendy and Lisa and their contributions, and sure, they created some magic with Prince but I also understand why they probably started getting on Prince´s nerves.


Hell, to this day, I´ve yet to see a Wendy interview where she does not make some sort of snarky, critical comment about Prince....even after his death (see that latest Revolution interview where she just HAD to mention that Lisa was a much more accomplished pianist than Prince....was that really necesssary? ) .


But I digress.....don´t get me wrong, I really like that era and the Revolution and Wendy but I also understand why there was potential for tension.



.


Remember how the critics blasted Prince in the mid to late 80s for being oh so European, for playing more often in Europe than in the USA, for sounding "too white", "too pop", no longer funky?


He even mentioned that in the Lovesexy tourbook ("...his Funk half assed, no longer daring..." ) when he writes about the making of the Black Album (The Funk Bible) .


.


So, yeah, I don´t necessary agree with Larry but I understand why he´d say what he said.


Most of those who dissed him back then soon realized that they were wrong, and in hindsight some were surprised to see how "black" Prince could be, and how much he did for Black America. But they probably didn´t really get how Prince was transcending racial boundaries instead of being trapped in them like they were, or instead of selling out like some other black acts.


.


Prince was much more than white or black , and way beyond the grasp of the simple categories of critics, fans and peers.


And later in his career, many people started wondering since when Prince became so afrocentric, and why.


I know one orger even went so far and said, and I quote : "Since when did Prince become all niggafied? " as a reaction to some of Prince´s views during the mid 90s all the way through the 2000s. But I don´t remember the orgers name anymore.



.


Many fans still don´t get what Prince was about.


And also....people change....especially Prince.


I´m no longer the same person that I was in 1986, neither are you, neither is Larry Blackmon.


The 80s were such a drastically different era compared to race in popular culture today.


It´s understandable that there would be some friction and tension.


.


Tony M. was quoted as saying "I´m going to push some black into his ass."


Why would he say that back then?


(No disrespect to Tony here, he´s a nice , mellow dude....but he said what he said.)



I think you're right but to be fair to Prince he was a phenomenon and was playing by his own rules. Musically if he wanted to sell out Parade wasn't the way to go.
You're also right about Wendy, she always sounds peevish. She's very arrogant I find


From this comment one might easily think that you're suggesting that during the Parade era Prince had his thumb on the pulse of popular RnB music.That album is simply not an indication of this.
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Reply #64 posted 01/12/17 2:23am

mechanicalemot
ion17

luvgirl said:

laurarichardson said:


Yes, people keep forgetting that part. I never got the impression he did not like black folk[/b] biggrin He just needed to sell records.


They keep forgetting due to selective memory. In all my years watching UTCM I never thought that scene meant anything more than he was a gigolo who saw the face of one of the older ladies that he used to sleep with for money, and he didn't want to live that life anymore. Isn't that what the movie was about? It wasn't until recently that I actually heard that people made this a thing. It's telling how everyone neglected to see the opening scene with him buying flowers for the African American Woman, but yet chose to focus on the skin color of the woman that he was trying to get away from. As they neglected to see all the beautiful black/biracial women he dated because they were too focus on if the skin tone was just the right shade of black. This world... rolleyes
Everyone was always so hard on him.
[Edited 1/11/17 6:17am]



This is a ridiculous statement that only a non Black person would make
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Reply #65 posted 01/12/17 2:30am

mechanicalemot
ion17

luvgirl said:

It's the scene on the balcony. He was sort of day dreaming and he saw the lady's face in his mind. She wasn't depicted as being fat though. It's all very silly. People were just trying to find something to accuse him of, that they had to point out what color she was.
[Edited 1/11/17 4:25am]



I would definitely say its problematic when the only image of a Black woman in an entire film is one that the protagonist dreams of in a nightmare and runs away from her for dear life. Only white privilege could make someone blind to the implications of that
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Reply #66 posted 01/12/17 2:55am

laurarichardso
n

mechanicalemotion17 said:

jcurley said:


I think you're right but to be fair to Prince he was a phenomenon and was playing by his own rules. Musically if he wanted to sell out Parade wasn't the way to go.
You're also right about Wendy, she always sounds peevish. She's very arrogant I find


From this comment one might easily think that you're suggesting that during the Parade era Prince had his thumb on the pulse of popular RnB music.That album is simply not an indication of this.

--We are discussing the live Parade show not the album but if you want to there I don't see too many people discussing late 80s RnB but plenty discussing Parade.
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Reply #67 posted 01/12/17 2:57am

laurarichardso
n

mechanicalemotion17 said:

luvgirl said:

It's the scene on the balcony. He was sort of day dreaming and he saw the lady's face in his mind. She wasn't depicted as being fat though. It's all very silly. People were just trying to find something to accuse him of, that they had to point out what color she was.
[Edited 1/11/17 4:25am]



I would definitely say its problematic when the only image of a Black woman in an entire film is one that the protagonist dreams of in a nightmare and runs away from her for dear life. Only white privilege could make someone blind to the implications of that

--Only selective memory could make you blind to the black women he gave the flowers to. He is a gigalo in the movie and is fearful for the life he is leading ( Is it love or money) It is also a movie not real life.
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Reply #68 posted 01/12/17 3:21am

yello1

Larry Blackmon paid tribute on Prince:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/robin-leach/cameo-frontman-larry-blackmon-word-was-music-its-time-paying-tribute-prince

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Reply #69 posted 01/12/17 5:37am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

mechanicalemotion17 said:

luvgirl said:
They keep forgetting due to selective memory. In all my years watching UTCM I never thought that scene meant anything more than he was a gigolo who saw the face of one of the older ladies that he used to sleep with for money, and he didn't want to live that life anymore. Isn't that what the movie was about? It wasn't until recently that I actually heard that people made this a thing. It's telling how everyone neglected to see the opening scene with him buying flowers for the African American Woman, but yet chose to focus on the skin color of the woman that he was trying to get away from. As they neglected to see all the beautiful black/biracial women he dated because they were too focus on if the skin tone was just the right shade of black. This world... rolleyes Everyone was always so hard on him. [Edited 1/11/17 6:17am]
This is a ridiculous statement that only a non Black person would make

not ridiculous.
Someone here said "there were no Black people in UTCM except for Jerome and the 'ugly Black' woman Christopher was scared of at the end.
People see things colored by their views of race or gender etc.
Black people and mixed people were all throught the movie

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Reply #70 posted 01/12/17 5:56am

NouveauDance

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

10672359_867053023338852_1344142590244435507_n.jpg?oh=1d39bfb62ac11a4675360d8bab68762c&oe=58E4184E

OK, now I remember. Jeez this isn't anything, people need to chill with their fucking theories! lol

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Reply #71 posted 01/12/17 6:04am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

mechanicalemotion17 said:

luvgirl said:
It's the scene on the balcony. He was sort of day dreaming and he saw the lady's face in his mind. She wasn't depicted as being fat though. It's all very silly. People were just trying to find something to accuse him of, that they had to point out what color she was. [Edited 1/11/17 4:25am]
I would definitely say its problematic when the only image of a Black woman in an entire film is one that the protagonist dreams of in a nightmare and runs away from her for dear life. Only white privilege could make someone blind to the implications of that

You dear sir, have to take off those race based shades

Black and mixed people were throught the movie...
your statement, sadly, is a reflection of you thought patterns...

Image may contain: 3 people

Image may contain: 2 people, people smiling

Image may contain: 1 person

Image may contain: 1 person

Image may contain: 1 person

Image may contain: 1 person

No automatic alt text available.

this trio was seen through out the movie, 1 man 2 women -one who is African descendant-you can see her on the passenger side of the car

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Reply #72 posted 01/12/17 6:42am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

And remember the ballerina?

She was in the Girls & Boys video but she was featured throught the movie especially at the club Venus de Milo

1379540_729418627102293_1492983558_n.jpg?oh=4f6bcc5c9e729ed64a316bf0e050f434&oe=591FDA8E10004064_729418727102283_449131341_n.jpg?oh=1c9377f374bb4b5265502ca9dd510466&oe=5912168D1969136_729418163769006_124190540_n.jpg?oh=22695ef3dd57e0f3bd8c6826252b5d66&oe=59220995

1901298_726683124042510_233320011_n.jpg?oh=19241ae350a619bcef7ea8e64bd6b660&oe=59134A52

1965074_726682170709272_283752313_n.jpg?oh=ae9222807369c1c712f19588889ec1bc&oe=592099B2

10003956_726682227375933_1230757263_n.jpg?oh=41f0027f4b7b885a5a4a6840b9e480f8&oe=58DA42FF

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Reply #73 posted 01/12/17 7:32am

MD431Madcat

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Aint nothin' wrong with a Funky Pimp! smile

laurarichardson said:

PeteSilas said:

the way tate said it, sounded like he was speaking from experience too. Lots of us men have older women come on to us in our teens, in those days it wasn't such a taboo but people didn't talk about it either.

I hate to think something like this happen to him but back in the day people did not take this stuff seriously. In addition, Andre Cymone said his brother Eddie was a pimp and that Prince got an education in the Andersen household.

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Reply #74 posted 01/12/17 11:56am

PeteSilas

avatar

ya, but why'd she have to be an old black lady? that lady was probably fine in the 60's. why couldn't they have had some old white lady, it's a valid point, France is a white country, Prince was playing the exotic/tragic/mulatto to the hilt, why not have a white lady there.

We Are The Greatest!
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Reply #75 posted 01/13/17 11:51am

daKotaGeNesis

PeteSilas said:

ya, but why'd she have to be an old black lady? that lady was probably fine in the 60's. why couldn't they have had some old white lady, it's a valid point, France is a white country, Prince was playing the exotic/tragic/mulatto to the hilt, why not have a white lady there.


I call racism depicted in the perception of this movie.

Black lives matter.

Can't stop laughing when I think of all who turn their heads on a daily basis. Not only that, but to think about those who can't wait to stand an inch away breaking their necks to make conversation even when there is no time.
[Edited 1/13/17 11:52am]
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Reply #76 posted 01/13/17 5:38pm

Menes

Larry has no room to talk as much as he did to disparage and bleed his own band members who were African American. Ask Charlie about that. Furthermore, Why would Prince claim to be black? That is the nastiest word created by European sociologist and anthropologist to demean a certain group of people . Lastly, if you knew the etymology of the word , no one would call themselves that!

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Reply #77 posted 01/13/17 5:51pm

gandorb

Sly said:

KoolEaze said:

When you say selling out ....are you referring to the year 1981, when he played at the Ritz in New York, or 1986, when this interview took place?

I don´t agree with Larry Blackmon (his name is Blackmon, not Blackmoon) but I understand where he´s coming from....he does have a point even though I don´t necessarily agree with him because I felt the same way about Prince in 1986, and I wasn´t the only one (orger VainAndy might agree with me if he reads this).

Remember that scene in UTCM where Christopher has a nightmare of a rather big , black woman? Even some of his later friends such as Spike Lee found that scene a bit odd, to say the least.

Also , he was more of a pop act at that time than a Funk act but when he started most people thought he was a Funk (and to some extent P-Funk and Funk Rock, RnB) act. But with the Revolution, especially Lisa and Wendy, he became more of a pop phenomenon than part of black music.

That´s also when you´d find his albums in the pop section and no longer in the Funk shelves at record stores, and keep in mind that he kept his racial background a bit vague in the mid 80s.

.

I said I don´t necessarily agree with Larry because I´m sure that Prince , deep in his heart but also in his actions and views, was always part of black and Funk culture, but he also knew that he could transcend such boundaries.

Remember when he became "blacker" during the Parade tour because he made Wally and Greg part of the extended Revolution and Lisa and Wendy, especially Wendy, were quite pissed about it and Wendy said something in the vein of "We could have become the next Beatles .....instead of this".

I love Wendy and Lisa and their contributions, and sure, they created some magic with Prince but I also understand why they probably started getting on Prince´s nerves.

Hell, to this day, I´ve yet to see a Wendy interview where she does not make some sort of snarky, critical comment about Prince....even after his death (see that latest Revolution interview where she just HAD to mention that Lisa was a much more accomplished pianist than Prince....was that really necesssary? ) .

But I digress.....don´t get me wrong, I really like that era and the Revolution and Wendy but I also understand why there was potential for tension.

.

Remember how the critics blasted Prince in the mid to late 80s for being oh so European, for playing more often in Europe than in the USA, for sounding "too white", "too pop", no longer funky?

He even mentioned that in the Lovesexy tourbook ("...his Funk half assed, no longer daring..." ) when he writes about the making of the Black Album (The Funk Bible) .

.

So, yeah, I don´t necessary agree with Larry but I understand why he´d say what he said.

Most of those who dissed him back then soon realized that they were wrong, and in hindsight some were surprised to see how "black" Prince could be, and how much he did for Black America. But they probably didn´t really get how Prince was transcending racial boundaries instead of being trapped in them like they were, or instead of selling out like some other black acts.

.

Prince was much more than white or black , and way beyond the grasp of the simple categories of critics, fans and peers.

And later in his career, many people started wondering since when Prince became so afrocentric, and why.

I know one orger even went so far and said, and I quote : "Since when did Prince become all niggafied? " as a reaction to some of Prince´s views during the mid 90s all the way through the 2000s. But I don´t remember the orgers name anymore.

.

Many fans still don´t get what Prince was about.

And also....people change....especially Prince.

I´m no longer the same person that I was in 1986, neither are you, neither is Larry Blackmon.

The 80s were such a drastically different era compared to race in popular culture today.

It´s understandable that there would be some friction and tension.

.

Tony M. was quoted as saying "I´m going to push some black into his ass."

Why would he say that back then?

(No disrespect to Tony here, he´s a nice , mellow dude....but he said what he said.)

Thanks for sharing. Found that really interesting, and wasn't aware of some of the detail (Revolution tension, Wendy etc.)

Any books you'd recommend?

Yes, I love understanding the perspective of others on race issues over time and how this may have impacte Prince's relationship with the black community, especially ones as insightful as your post KoolEase.

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Reply #78 posted 01/13/17 5:54pm

SoulAlive

Menes said:

Larry has no room to talk as much as he did to disparage and bleed his own band members who were African American. Ask Charlie about that. Furthermore, Why would Prince claim to be black? That is the nastiest word created by European sociologist and anthropologist to demean a certain group of people . Lastly, if you knew the etymology of the word , no one would call themselves that!




eek
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Reply #79 posted 01/13/17 7:44pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

KoolEaze said:

When you say selling out ....are you referring to the year 1981, when he played at the Ritz in New York, or 1986, when this interview took place?

I don´t agree with Larry Blackmon (his name is Blackmon, not Blackmoon) but I understand where he´s coming from....he does have a point even though I don´t necessarily agree with him because I felt the same way about Prince in 1986, and I wasn´t the only one (orger VainAndy might agree with me if he reads this).

Remember that scene in UTCM where Christopher has a nightmare of a rather big , black woman? Even some of his later friends such as Spike Lee found that scene a bit odd, to say the least.

Also , he was more of a pop act at that time than a Funk act but when he started most people thought he was a Funk (and to some extent P-Funk and Funk Rock, RnB) act. But with the Revolution, especially Lisa and Wendy, he became more of a pop phenomenon than part of black music.

That´s also when you´d find his albums in the pop section and no longer in the Funk shelves at record stores, and keep in mind that he kept his racial background a bit vague in the mid 80s.

.

I said I don´t necessarily agree with Larry because I´m sure that Prince , deep in his heart but also in his actions and views, was always part of black and Funk culture, but he also knew that he could transcend such boundaries.

Remember when he became "blacker" during the Parade tour because he made Wally and Greg part of the extended Revolution and Lisa and Wendy, especially Wendy, were quite pissed about it and Wendy said something in the vein of "We could have become the next Beatles .....instead of this".

I love Wendy and Lisa and their contributions, and sure, they created some magic with Prince but I also understand why they probably started getting on Prince´s nerves.

Hell, to this day, I´ve yet to see a Wendy interview where she does not make some sort of snarky, critical comment about Prince....even after his death (see that latest Revolution interview where she just HAD to mention that Lisa was a much more accomplished pianist than Prince....was that really necesssary? ) .

But I digress.....don´t get me wrong, I really like that era and the Revolution and Wendy but I also understand why there was potential for tension.

.

Remember how the critics blasted Prince in the mid to late 80s for being oh so European, for playing more often in Europe than in the USA, for sounding "too white", "too pop", no longer funky?

He even mentioned that in the Lovesexy tourbook ("...his Funk half assed, no longer daring..." ) when he writes about the making of the Black Album (The Funk Bible) .

.

So, yeah, I don´t necessary agree with Larry but I understand why he´d say what he said.

Most of those who dissed him back then soon realized that they were wrong, and in hindsight some were surprised to see how "black" Prince could be, and how much he did for Black America. But they probably didn´t really get how Prince was transcending racial boundaries instead of being trapped in them like they were, or instead of selling out like some other black acts.

.

Prince was much more than white or black , and way beyond the grasp of the simple categories of critics, fans and peers.

And later in his career, many people started wondering since when Prince became so afrocentric, and why.

I know one orger even went so far and said, and I quote : "Since when did Prince become all niggafied? " as a reaction to some of Prince´s views during the mid 90s all the way through the 2000s. But I don´t remember the orgers name anymore.

.

Many fans still don´t get what Prince was about.

And also....people change....especially Prince.

I´m no longer the same person that I was in 1986, neither are you, neither is Larry Blackmon.

The 80s were such a drastically different era compared to race in popular culture today.

It´s understandable that there would be some friction and tension.

.

Tony M. was quoted as saying "I´m going to push some black into his ass."

Why would he say that back then?

(No disrespect to Tony here, he´s a nice , mellow dude....but he said what he said.)

I'll have to add, that the expansion of the live Revolution band had nothing to do with race.

.

Miko(guitar) was also on stage and no one had a problem with that, if Eddie M was in the band, there would not have been a problem.
.
Remember the purpose for all those people being crammed on stage was because the Family disbanded. And all of them Eric Jerome Susannah Wally Miko & Gregory were a part of the Family band.

.

Wendy also had issue with having to share the stage with Susannah (I believe she said something to the extent of 'I had to share a womb with her, not a mic') now a lot of this could have been tongue in cheek. But clearly it was not about race. Especially with Brown Mark being there. & Prince.

Friction based on over crowding, but not race.
.
I would say that Gregory & Wally's presence brought out that 'other' side of Prince more that could be over the top. I've listened to rehearsals hearing Gregory yelling and barking as if he was making the music happen. I too would respond as Wendy did. Not to mention the placing of BrownMark behind them on stage.
.
I was listening to a Parade rehearsal yesterday and I think on New Position, Prince was telling BrownMark he didn't always have to sing, but could move around on the stage more. Bringing that (I don't even know what to call it) element, in my opinion did not help that period be more chic on a higher level of creativity that it could have bee. It was clear, his placement behind the 3 dancers was a bit of a tense issue.

.

The floor was crowded because it wasn't planned for them to be there. The stage was a stage for

Prince BrownMark(bass) Wendy(guitar) Miko(guitar) Eric Leeds(sax) Atlanta Bliss(trumpet) Susannah(vocals) Jerome,-Wally & Gregory(dancer/vocals)

.

For the Family stage set up it was planned and situated: l - r Wally Gregory Jerome, St Paul/Susannah(center) Miko and the bass player behind St Paul(Miko move more freely on stage) and Eric Leeds on the right.

.

with the SOTT band set up: l - r Wally Cat Gregory, Prince, Miko & Levi (Eric and Atlanta had a medium space higher up between them and the backing lineup Dr Fink Sheila Boni

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Reply #80 posted 01/13/17 8:01pm

PeteSilas

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

KoolEaze said:

When you say selling out ....are you referring to the year 1981, when he played at the Ritz in New York, or 1986, when this interview took place?

I don´t agree with Larry Blackmon (his name is Blackmon, not Blackmoon) but I understand where he´s coming from....he does have a point even though I don´t necessarily agree with him because I felt the same way about Prince in 1986, and I wasn´t the only one (orger VainAndy might agree with me if he reads this).

Remember that scene in UTCM where Christopher has a nightmare of a rather big , black woman? Even some of his later friends such as Spike Lee found that scene a bit odd, to say the least.

Also , he was more of a pop act at that time than a Funk act but when he started most people thought he was a Funk (and to some extent P-Funk and Funk Rock, RnB) act. But with the Revolution, especially Lisa and Wendy, he became more of a pop phenomenon than part of black music.

That´s also when you´d find his albums in the pop section and no longer in the Funk shelves at record stores, and keep in mind that he kept his racial background a bit vague in the mid 80s.

.

I said I don´t necessarily agree with Larry because I´m sure that Prince , deep in his heart but also in his actions and views, was always part of black and Funk culture, but he also knew that he could transcend such boundaries.

Remember when he became "blacker" during the Parade tour because he made Wally and Greg part of the extended Revolution and Lisa and Wendy, especially Wendy, were quite pissed about it and Wendy said something in the vein of "We could have become the next Beatles .....instead of this".

I love Wendy and Lisa and their contributions, and sure, they created some magic with Prince but I also understand why they probably started getting on Prince´s nerves.

Hell, to this day, I´ve yet to see a Wendy interview where she does not make some sort of snarky, critical comment about Prince....even after his death (see that latest Revolution interview where she just HAD to mention that Lisa was a much more accomplished pianist than Prince....was that really necesssary? ) .

But I digress.....don´t get me wrong, I really like that era and the Revolution and Wendy but I also understand why there was potential for tension.

.

Remember how the critics blasted Prince in the mid to late 80s for being oh so European, for playing more often in Europe than in the USA, for sounding "too white", "too pop", no longer funky?

He even mentioned that in the Lovesexy tourbook ("...his Funk half assed, no longer daring..." ) when he writes about the making of the Black Album (The Funk Bible) .

.

So, yeah, I don´t necessary agree with Larry but I understand why he´d say what he said.

Most of those who dissed him back then soon realized that they were wrong, and in hindsight some were surprised to see how "black" Prince could be, and how much he did for Black America. But they probably didn´t really get how Prince was transcending racial boundaries instead of being trapped in them like they were, or instead of selling out like some other black acts.

.

Prince was much more than white or black , and way beyond the grasp of the simple categories of critics, fans and peers.

And later in his career, many people started wondering since when Prince became so afrocentric, and why.

I know one orger even went so far and said, and I quote : "Since when did Prince become all niggafied? " as a reaction to some of Prince´s views during the mid 90s all the way through the 2000s. But I don´t remember the orgers name anymore.

.

Many fans still don´t get what Prince was about.

And also....people change....especially Prince.

I´m no longer the same person that I was in 1986, neither are you, neither is Larry Blackmon.

The 80s were such a drastically different era compared to race in popular culture today.

It´s understandable that there would be some friction and tension.

.

Tony M. was quoted as saying "I´m going to push some black into his ass."

Why would he say that back then?

(No disrespect to Tony here, he´s a nice , mellow dude....but he said what he said.)

I'll have to add, that the expansion of the live Revolution band had nothing to do with race.

.

Miko(guitar) was also on stage and no one had a problem with that, if Eddie M was in the band, there would not have been a problem.
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Remember the purpose for all those people being crammed on stage was because the Family disbanded. And all of them Eric Jerome Susannah Wally Miko & Gregory were a part of the Family band.

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Wendy also had issue with having to share the stage with Susannah (I believe she said something to the extent of 'I had to share a womb with her, not a mic') now a lot of this could have been tongue in cheek. But clearly it was not about race. Especially with Brown Mark being there. & Prince.

Friction based on over crowding, but not race.
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I would say that Gregory & Wally's presence brought out that 'other' side of Prince more that could be over the top. I've listened to rehearsals hearing Gregory yelling and barking as if he was making the music happen. I too would respond as Wendy did. Not to mention the placing of BrownMark behind them on stage.
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I was listening to a Parade rehearsal yesterday and I think on New Position, Prince was telling BrownMark he didn't always have to sing, but could move around on the stage more. Bringing that (I don't even know what to call it) element, in my opinion did not help that period be more chic on a higher level of creativity that it could have bee. It was clear, his placement behind the 3 dancers was a bit of a tense issue.

.

The floor was crowded because it wasn't planned for them to be there. The stage was a stage for

Prince BrownMark(bass) Wendy(guitar) Miko(guitar) Eric Leeds(sax) Atlanta Bliss(trumpet) Susannah(vocals) Jerome,-Wally & Gregory(dancer/vocals)

.

For the Family stage set up it was planned and situated: l - r Wally Gregory Jerome, St Paul/Susannah(center) Miko and the bass player behind St Paul(Miko move more freely on stage) and Eric Leeds on the right.

.

with the SOTT band set up: l - r Wally Cat Gregory, Prince, Miko & Levi (Eric and Atlanta had a medium space higher up between them and the backing lineup Dr Fink Sheila Boni

Wendy did call the revamped band some kind of soul revue and matt fink did say things changed when prince started hanging around his black buddies. It's not the first time something like that has happened to a black artists. they all do in some form. Jimi Hendrix went through what Prince went through the closest I think, because he had nothing but white people around him and when he started going with the buddy miles and billy cox, the white people started getting nervous. One of them in a docu even used the same language fink did with Prince saying "things got a little strange" when Jimi started hanging out with black people. People (not speaking racially as such) really do want to control you once they love you and Prince was no different. On top of that, fame brings out the con men, people who'll play on your doubs and insecurities to manipulate you. Jimi was supposedly getting into black Panther type shit but it wasn't really sincere I think, he just felt guilty and was told he was a sellout. I'm sure Prince had these same type of no good street motherfuckers (again, not even speaking racially) whispering shit in his ear so they could get into his world. What the fuck did Wally safford even do?

We Are The Greatest!
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Reply #81 posted 01/13/17 8:32pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I'll have to add, that the expansion of the live Revolution band had nothing to do with race.

.

Miko(guitar) was also on stage and no one had a problem with that, if Eddie M was in the band, there would not have been a problem.
.
Remember the purpose for all those people being crammed on stage was because the Family disbanded. And all of them Eric Jerome Susannah Wally Miko & Gregory were a part of the Family band.

.

Wendy also had issue with having to share the stage with Susannah (I believe she said something to the extent of 'I had to share a womb with her, not a mic') now a lot of this could have been tongue in cheek. But clearly it was not about race. Especially with Brown Mark being there. & Prince.

Friction based on over crowding, but not race.
.
I would say that Gregory & Wally's presence brought out that 'other' side of Prince more that could be over the top. I've listened to rehearsals hearing Gregory yelling and barking as if he was making the music happen. I too would respond as Wendy did. Not to mention the placing of BrownMark behind them on stage.
.
I was listening to a Parade rehearsal yesterday and I think on New Position, Prince was telling BrownMark he didn't always have to sing, but could move around on the stage more. Bringing that (I don't even know what to call it) element, in my opinion did not help that period be more chic on a higher level of creativity that it could have bee. It was clear, his placement behind the 3 dancers was a bit of a tense issue.

.

The floor was crowded because it wasn't planned for them to be there. The stage was a stage for

Prince BrownMark(bass) Wendy(guitar) Miko(guitar) Eric Leeds(sax) Atlanta Bliss(trumpet) Susannah(vocals) Jerome,-Wally & Gregory(dancer/vocals)

.

For the Family stage set up it was planned and situated: l - r Wally Gregory Jerome, St Paul/Susannah(center) Miko and the bass player behind St Paul(Miko move more freely on stage) and Eric Leeds on the right.

.

with the SOTT band set up: l - r Wally Cat Gregory, Prince, Miko & Levi (Eric and Atlanta had a medium space higher up between them and the backing lineup Dr Fink Sheila Boni

Wendy did call the revamped band some kind of soul revue and matt fink did say things changed when prince started hanging around his black buddies. It's not the first time something like that has happened to a black artists. they all do in some form. Jimi Hendrix went through what Prince went through the closest I think, because he had nothing but white people around him and when he started going with the buddy miles and billy cox, the white people started getting nervous. One of them in a docu even used the same language fink did with Prince saying "things got a little strange" when Jimi started hanging out with black people. People (not speaking racially as such) really do want to control you once they love you and Prince was no different. On top of that, fame brings out the con men, people who'll play on your doubs and insecurities to manipulate you. Jimi was supposedly getting into black Panther type shit but it wasn't really sincere I think, he just felt guilty and was told he was a sellout. I'm sure Prince had these same type of no good street motherfuckers (again, not even speaking racially) whispering shit in his ear so they could get into his world. What the fuck did Wally safford even do?

Yep, but that still isn't racial to me. Buy pulling in the left over Family members it changed the dynamic. Now when Suzi Eddie M Juan Escovedo Sheila E & Miko were jamming on many numbers on the PR tour, that was not a problem.

I believe Matt Fink said that for the Nude tour band in 1990. He gave a lot of insight into the shift in the attitude of the band members. Even Miko was not feeling them. And Prince had gotten heavy into clowning people. Around the Nude tour period he was going after Fink & Miko alot. He went after Miko & Boni a lot of the Lovesexy tour.
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I agree with the whole 'feeling guilty' thing, because by this time, Prince was being attacked by a certain segment that said he was not doing the music they wanted much anymore, which is really a shame.

.

Because Prince seemed to do some changing, as a result of Gregory & Wally, + with Jerome there, Prince was channelling Morris Day and that character alot. But was Gregory & Wally going to be a part of the Time 1984? I remember those 2 joining the band on stage near the end on a song or two.
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Obviously they had no issue with Race, they were cool with Morris Day & the Time member, Andre Dez Dickerson & BrownMark... Eddie M Sheila E Juan Escovedo Miko Weaver

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I remember from something back then someone saying about the other members 'At least you guys are musicians'

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Reply #82 posted 01/13/17 10:20pm

jazzvirtuoso

Wheter or not Larry was talking about Prince I am not sure however it IS a fact that Larry and some of the other band members hung out with Prince. I'm a keyboard player and was friends with one of these musicians(whom I will not mention), but this person was a FANTASTIC MUSICIAN and mentioned sitting in jam sessions with Prince and he even mentioned a few areas musically where he and Prince traded licks.

He nentioned a few other things, but those shall ever remain private.
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Reply #83 posted 01/13/17 11:38pm

PeteSilas

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jazzvirtuoso said:

Wheter or not Larry was talking about Prince I am not sure however it IS a fact that Larry and some of the other band members hung out with Prince. I'm a keyboard player and was friends with one of these musicians(whom I will not mention), but this person was a FANTASTIC MUSICIAN and mentioned sitting in jam sessions with Prince and he even mentioned a few areas musically where he and Prince traded licks. He nentioned a few other things, but those shall ever remain private.

aw man, why you gotta tease motherfuckers. was it that bad? did prince bring lucifer into a session with a gold fiddle? god damn you.

We Are The Greatest!
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