Yes, I read what you said. You basically stated that you were able to sing all of Prince's notes (being a baritone) but none of Mike's because he was a tenor. Fair point. I am respectfully arguing with you because as much as I love Beautiful Ones, its one song originally recorded earlier in his life. My point was that LATER music contained high vocals that seemed less airy to me and I don't believe that all of Prince's high vocals were as light and airy as Beautiful Ones.

I don't doubt that you love Beautiful ones and that you are a fan of Prince's. But, there are people on here who claim to be fans and implicitly state that they don't even like his singing voice. One could argue that Prince's vocal talent is in his theatrics. But if a person was to make a case for P's singing and basically states that his voice is a light airy falsetto except when he is screaming that is not really a compliment about his vocal abilities. It is more a compliment of his ability to use theatrics to sell a song. That kind of singing doesn't sound hard to do at all. Maybe, I am missing something here.

People say "falsetto" is not real singing. Well, if it is not real singing, than what the hell is it? And can any male who isn't tone deaf and has some breath control sing it as well as Prince? Don't all men have falsettos?

As for MJ, I am not a fan of his staccato singing. It always sounded like hiccups. Probably hard to do but not my cup of tea. So, therefore not "biting" to me anyhow. I would rather hear P's screaming manic voice--that to me is biting. Is it difficult? I don't know. But it is convincing and that to me is what makes something "biting" or edgy. But kind off the point.

The strength of Prince's voice during high singing in later recordings is more what I was talking about.

smoothcriminal12 said:

purplerabbithole said:

That whole reaction seems to be implying that Mike is the better singer. I don't agree at all that Michael's is more 'biting'. But I guess the rest is a legitimate point.

TMBGITW (to me) is not light and airy. its almost Barry Gibb-like to me. Also using the BEautiful ones as an example of Prince's vocal range is not totally fair. Its one song sung 30 years ago. My whole point was that he later sang in ways that weren't so light and airy. The Beautiful Ones, I must say, is a great performance and his falsetto though light and airy was also dynamic and well phrased with long fluid lines and dips into his lower register throughout ("is it him or is it me"). But the beautiful ones is also more airy and light than Somewhere here on Earth, I love you but I don't trust you anymore or The most beautiful girl.

.

[Edited 1/7/17 16:31pm]

[Edited 1/7/17 16:34pm]

Yes Michael was more biting in the sense that his adult vocals were often sung staccato with heavy rhythmic emphasis, using various vocal tics to emphasize the rhythmic elements of his songs. That doesn't imply anything about who was "better" (as if there is a better among vocalists of such a high caliber), it just means that they had different vocal focuses. I'm talking music theory right now, and comparing the two singers as a way of highlighting their different vocal stylistics; what you take away from it is up to you.

The Beautiful Ones is a wonderful example of the dynamic range of Prince's vocal abilities and using it as an example is not unfair at all - it is a work of genius and deserves to be studied. The Beautiful Ones shows Prince's sheer ability as a vocalist. Did you read the content of my post? I was very favourable to him (Prince being one of my favourite artists of all time and all that), and was using the song as a contained example of Prince's range, depth, and vocal style.

[Edited 1/7/17 16:48pm]

[Edited 1/7/17 17:06pm]

[Edited 1/7/17 17:08pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Yes, I read what you said. You basically stated that you were able to sing all of Prince's notes (being a baritone) but none of Mike's because he was a tenor. Fair point. I am respectfully arguing with you because as much as I love Beautiful Ones, its one song originally recorded earlier in his life. My point was that LATER music contained high vocals that seemed less airy to me and I don't believe that all of Prince's high vocals were as light and airy as Beautiful Ones.

I don't doubt that you love Beautiful ones and that you are a fan of Prince's. But, there are people on here who claim to be fans and implicitly state that they don't even like his singing voice. One could argue that Prince's vocal talent is in his theatrics. But if a person was to make a case for P's singing and basically states that his voice is a light airy falsetto except when he is screaming that is not really a compliment about his vocal abilities. It is more a compliment of his ability to use theatrics to sell a song. That kind of singing doesn't sound hard to do at all. Maybe, I am missing something here.

People say "falsetto" is not real singing. Well, if it is not real singing, than what the hell is it? And can any male who isn't tone deaf and has some breath control sing it as well as Prince? Don't all men have falsettos?

smoothcriminal12 said:

Yes Michael was more biting in the sense that his adult vocals were often sung staccato with heavy rhythmic emphasis, using various vocal tics to emphasize the rhythmic elements of his songs. That doesn't imply anything about who was "better" (as if there is a better among vocalists of such a high caliber), it just means that they had different vocal focuses. I'm talking music theory right now, and comparing the two singers as a way of highlighting their different vocal stylistics; what you take away from it is up to you.

The Beautiful Ones is a wonderful example of the dynamic range of Prince's vocal abilities and using it as an example is not unfair at all - it is a work of genius and deserves to be studied. The Beautiful Ones shows Prince's sheer ability as a vocalist. Did you read the content of my post? I was very favourable to him (Prince being one of my favourite artists of all time and all that), and was using the song as a contained example of Prince's range, depth, and vocal style.

[Edited 1/7/17 16:48pm]

Falsetto is sure as hell real singing to me! Fuck the haters - anyone who says that it isn't is probably a snob, or something like that.

I am certainly NOT implying that Prince's voice merely consists of light airy falsetto, screaming and baritone - I was just shooting the shit about elements of P's voice that I loved and my personal take on his style. I honestly am not really sure what we're going back and forth about at this point. I still stand by the idea that Prince was not a counter tenor, rather, he just got better at using his voice and never lost his chops in his later years, even as other artists of his generation lost it. The baritone voice is extremely versatile and agile when stretched to it's maximum potential, and countertenors are so extremely rare that I would hesitate to consider him one. If he was, I'm sure some seasoned musicologist would have mentioned something about it at this point!

I mean listen to this guy. No fucking way does Prince have the same vocal type as him (in my opinion) :

Interestingly enough, the British use the term "male alto" to refer to men who rely on their falsetto to sing in the soprano range. Prince certainly could be considered one of those!

[Edited 1/7/17 17:14pm]

Also, I wanted to add that studying THe Beautiful ONes is a valid tribute to Prince, but since i was asking about what his voice might have developed into later, its kind of irrevelent. Sorry if i sound skeptical.

smoothcriminal12 said:

purplerabbithole said:

That whole reaction seems to be implying that Mike is the better singer. I don't agree at all that Michael's is more 'biting'. But I guess the rest is a legitimate point.

TMBGITW (to me) is not light and airy. its almost Barry Gibb-like to me. Also using the BEautiful ones as an example of Prince's vocal range is not totally fair. Its one song sung 30 years ago. My whole point was that he later sang in ways that weren't so light and airy. The Beautiful Ones, I must say, is a great performance and his falsetto though light and airy was also dynamic and well phrased with long fluid lines and dips into his lower register throughout ("is it him or is it me"). But the beautiful ones is also more airy and light than Somewhere here on Earth, I love you but I don't trust you anymore or The most beautiful girl.

.

[Edited 1/7/17 16:31pm]

[Edited 1/7/17 16:34pm]

Yes Michael was more biting in the sense that his adult vocals were often sung staccato with heavy rhythmic emphasis, using various vocal tics to emphasize the rhythmic elements of his songs. That doesn't imply anything about who was "better" (as if there is a better among vocalists of such a high caliber), it just means that they had different vocal focuses. I'm talking music theory right now, and comparing the two singers as a way of highlighting their different vocal stylistics; what you take away from it is up to you.

The Beautiful Ones is a wonderful example of the dynamic range of Prince's vocal abilities and using it as an example is not unfair at all - it is a work of genius and deserves to be studied. The Beautiful Ones shows Prince's sheer ability as a vocalist. Did you misunderstand the intent of my post? I was very favourable to him (Prince being one of my favourite artists of all time and all that), and was using the song as a contained example of Prince's range, depth, and vocal style - in the same way you can study Beethoven's Eroica symphony as an example of his middle period works. It's not the only work of that period, but it's one of his best and a great example of his compositional technique and artistic aspirations.

[Edited 1/7/17 16:55pm]

Okay, you win...I do see your point.

Thanks for the respectful debate and I am glad we understand each other now. Disregard my other post. I was writing it before I read this one.

Prince is a male alto. I like that.

smoothcriminal12 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Yes, I read what you said. You basically stated that you were able to sing all of Prince's notes (being a baritone) but none of Mike's because he was a tenor. Fair point. I am respectfully arguing with you because as much as I love Beautiful Ones, its one song originally recorded earlier in his life. My point was that LATER music contained high vocals that seemed less airy to me and I don't believe that all of Prince's high vocals were as light and airy as Beautiful Ones.

I don't doubt that you love Beautiful ones and that you are a fan of Prince's. But, there are people on here who claim to be fans and implicitly state that they don't even like his singing voice. One could argue that Prince's vocal talent is in his theatrics. But if a person was to make a case for P's singing and basically states that his voice is a light airy falsetto except when he is screaming that is not really a compliment about his vocal abilities. It is more a compliment of his ability to use theatrics to sell a song. That kind of singing doesn't sound hard to do at all. Maybe, I am missing something here.

People say "falsetto" is not real singing. Well, if it is not real singing, than what the hell is it? And can any male who isn't tone deaf and has some breath control sing it as well as Prince? Don't all men have falsettos?

Falsetto is sure as hell real singing to me! Fuck the haters - anyone who says that it isn't is probably a snob, or something like that.

I am certainly NOT implying that Prince's voice merely consists of light airy falsetto, screaming and baritone - I was just shooting the shit about elements of P's voice that I loved and my personal take on his style. I honestly am not really sure what we're going back and forth about at this point. I still stand by the idea that Prince was not a counter tenor, rather, he just got better at using his voice and never lost his chops in his later years, even as other artists of his generation lost it. The baritone voice is extremely versatile and agile when stretched to it's maximum potential, and countertenors are so extremely rare that I would hesitate to consider him one. If he was, I'm sure some seasoned musicologist would have mentioned something about it at this point!

I mean listen to this guy. No fucking way does Prince have the same vocal type as him (in my opinion) :

Interestingly enough, the British use the term "male alto" to refer to men who rely on their falsetto to sing in the soprano range. Prince certainly could be considered one of those!

[Edited 1/7/17 17:14pm]

[Edited 1/7/17 17:22pm]

Would "Solo" be considered singing in countertenor? When I listen to it I sometimes flash on Klaus Nomi.

FlyOnTheWall said:

thebanishedone said:

Well the thing is he never said it.

What he did say is that he was not comfortable singing in his chest voice in the early days.

thats why chest voice was used only as back harmony vocals.

First time Prince ever sang with chest voice was on the

Rolling Stones support act.if you listen to recording of the concert u

will notice theres no falsetto

at all.Bambi was all chest voice.

After the Stones incident Prince decided t win rock

audiance so starting

with Controversy album his chest

voice was more prominent.

Prince sounded flawless during 1999 era .i didnt hear single

vocal mistake and he was amazing on that tour.

Althought he was singing great untill the end his chest voice did detoriete a little.

When he was singing Purple Rain the way he was pronauncing

the word Sorrow was very nasal and sometimes off key.

But his voice did improve with time in two departments.

His falsetto and his screams.

Listen to Prince screaming at the end of The Dance tell me

those screams are not stronger and superior to th Beautiful Ones.

The Beautiful Ones is amazing song but Prince was not yet

brilliant master of screaming until latter.

If you want to hear perfect screams on the Beautiful Ones

listen to version of the song from rock over germany concerts 1993.

And what is crazy he had some vocal problems during that

time and his voice was deeper than ever but he killed it on The Beautiful Ones and also he was singing Purple Rain like the original version.

Yes, he said it. I'll find it.

I still can't find the actual interview, but I did find this link to a thread on the org discussing it. I think it is a broadcast interview, which makes it tougher to search for key words than in a print interview. Here's the org link.

http://prince.org/msg/7/310595

Great topic PurpleRabbieHole. Firstly I agree that perfect singing, can be boring. I remember when that Charlotte Church person came on the scene and everyone was saying how her voice was perfect. And it really was beautiful. But definitely also boring

There is perfection within imperfection

I love the various nuances and facets to Prince's voice. Your example of Damn U is one of my favourites for showcasing this, his range being so smooth, like silk.

.

Coincidentally I am actually watching Montreux '09 right at the moment (truthfully, I'm often re-watching these because I love them so much. The music, his voice, the outfit, the close ups on his eyes )!! I did notice sometimes he did sound strained but with the seemingly RARE sight of him sipping from a bottle of water during a performance, it's possible that his throat was a little dry, or even the air/dry/temperature felt that way.

.

His voice definitely changed over time but I think he also seemed more ... I dunno, at ease, relaxed even? Then compared to his earlier years so maybe that can come through in his voice too? I'm probably making no sense One thing I do love about Montreux specifically, is he effectively uses his voice not just to sing, but as an instrument. I know that sounds weird since vocals ARE instruments but I guess it just stands out to me more here for some reason.

.

Also, I completely agree that Prince was under-rated Peeves me actually I feel there are so many people out there missing out on the brilliant song-writing, musicianship and vocals of his music, which to me, is a damn shame!

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know much about singing. But listening to his vocals on the Montreux 2009 concert, his high singing seemed stronger and clearer than his earlier singing on albums like Dirty Mind. And even less squeaky.

I admit that at times in later performances, the falsetto or whatever it was would become strained. But there were other times when it was really gorgeous. And of course, the extreme highness of Kiss and TMBGITW can be piercing to some people. Both vocals have really grown on me since I was a young kid (even though when I was a kid, I didnt get high 'squeaky' falsetto singing..I even hated Frankie Valli and the BeeGees because of this). But I realize now that a bit of squeakiness is funkier.

BTW, Prince's singing voice to me was always improving or at least gaining texture and resonance. Compare "Damn U" to any of his earlier falsetto ballads. Even if his songwriting (and choices about what he should widely release) became inconsistent, I think his singing in many ways became more varied and interesting as he got older. I was listening to "Cool" live, and his lower voice is so soulful and funky as well. And in Look at me, Look at u, his voice was like velvet.

I always prefer voices with personality over perfect but ultimately dull singing anyway. (I don't like bad singing--don't get me wrong--but perfect singing can be boring singing). I also think Prince's voice is underated because he was a vocal chameleon who developed over time and some of his biggest hits don't necessarily show case his full capabilities. His voice is not the loudest in the world, but it did have texture and variety.. It is sensual, edgy, expressive, varied, sensitive, humorous, funky, and soulful.

FlyOnTheWall said:

thebanishedone said:

Is this a topic about his singibg or gossip? because i see it tends to go in a gossip direction.

abyway POrinces voice sounded the best on 1999 tour . i think that around 1997 he start to develoup some nasal quality in his voice that stayed until the end.

I think the clarity of his voice, throughout his register, was incredible during the Piano & A Microphone tour. He just got better with age.

THIS so much! ONA was exceptional!!

FlyOnTheWall said:

thebanishedone said:

if you want to see him missing a note check for any live version of ThE bEAUTIFUL oNES.

I THINK HE DIDNT FIND THE RIGHT VOICE HOW TO PERFORM VOCALS LIVE ON THAT SONG until 1993

Wow. That's an interesting perspective.

I was just reading how when he finished recording The Beautiful Ones he had this look on his face as he knew he just aced that recording and that he couldn't have done any better.

smoothcriminal12 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Yes, I read what you said. You basically stated that you were able to sing all of Prince's notes (being a baritone) but none of Mike's because he was a tenor. Fair point. I am respectfully arguing with you because as much as I love Beautiful Ones, its one song originally recorded earlier in his life. My point was that LATER music contained high vocals that seemed less airy to me and I don't believe that all of Prince's high vocals were as light and airy as Beautiful Ones.

I don't doubt that you love Beautiful ones and that you are a fan of Prince's. But, there are people on here who claim to be fans and implicitly state that they don't even like his singing voice. One could argue that Prince's vocal talent is in his theatrics. But if a person was to make a case for P's singing and basically states that his voice is a light airy falsetto except when he is screaming that is not really a compliment about his vocal abilities. It is more a compliment of his ability to use theatrics to sell a song. That kind of singing doesn't sound hard to do at all. Maybe, I am missing something here.

People say "falsetto" is not real singing. Well, if it is not real singing, than what the hell is it? And can any male who isn't tone deaf and has some breath control sing it as well as Prince? Don't all men have falsettos?

Falsetto is sure as hell real singing to me! Fuck the haters - anyone who says that it isn't is probably a snob, or something like that.

I am certainly NOT implying that Prince's voice merely consists of light airy falsetto, screaming and baritone - I was just shooting the shit about elements of P's voice that I loved and my personal take on his style. I honestly am not really sure what we're going back and forth about at this point. I still stand by the idea that Prince was not a counter tenor, rather, he just got better at using his voice and never lost his chops in his later years, even as other artists of his generation lost it. The baritone voice is extremely versatile and agile when stretched to it's maximum potential, and countertenors are so extremely rare that I would hesitate to consider him one. If he was, I'm sure some seasoned musicologist would have mentioned something about it at this point!

I mean listen to this guy. No fucking way does Prince have the same vocal type as him (in my opinion) :

Interestingly enough, the British use the term "male alto" to refer to men who rely on their falsetto to sing in the soprano range. Prince certainly could be considered one of those!

[Edited 1/7/17 17:14pm]

Me neither but it's entertaining so...carry on

FlyOnTheWall said: