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Thread started 12/10/16 1:12am

FunkOnTheOne

Madonna's comments on Prince

Just wondered what everybody made of these comments.

http://www.usatoday.com/s.../95220036/

She compared her treatment in the media to Prince's, a similarly audacious artist who she claimed was celebrated, not condemned, for his sexually adventurous persona. "I was called a whore and a witch. One headline compared me to Satan. And I said, 'Wait a minute, isn't Prince running around with fishnets and high heels and lipstick with his butt hanging out?,'" she said. "Yes, he was, but he was a man."

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Reply #1 posted 12/10/16 1:39am

NouveauDance

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Well she's not wrong.

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Reply #2 posted 12/10/16 1:44am

1Sasha

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.
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Reply #3 posted 12/10/16 2:50am

NouveauDance

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1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

I don't think she's saying otherwise. She's speaking about the ingrained misogyny in entertainment industry.

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Reply #4 posted 12/10/16 3:27am

rogifan

Maybe perhaps because a lot of what Madonna has done over her career seems contrived? Also I'm not sure Prince was always celebrated for everything he did. But the thing is he grew up and grew out of the need to shock. Madonna never did. Case in point from the 2015 Grammys:

madonna-butt-main.jpg

Like Prince said in 2004:

“Look at this situation with the FCC after Janet: We’ve gone too far now. We’ve pushed the envelope off the table and forgotten there was a table. You can’t push the envelope any further than I pushed it. So stop! What’s the point?”

I don't think this is a sexist thing at all. I wouldn't want to see Prince flashing his ass at 56 either. But I'm all ears if Madonna has examples of where Prince was lauded for doing something whereas she was given shit for doing the exact same thing. wink
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #5 posted 12/10/16 3:45am

darkroman

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

.

Well that's not really the point of the thread.

.

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

.

Look at her album sales and she gets the last laugh.

.

lol

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Reply #6 posted 12/10/16 4:05am

NouveauDance

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rogifan said:

Maybe perhaps because a lot of what Madonna has done over her career seems contrived? Also I'm not sure Prince was always celebrated for everything he did. But the thing is he grew up and grew out of the need to shock. Madonna never did. Case in point from the 2015 Grammys: madonna-butt-main.jpg Like Prince said in 2004:
“Look at this situation with the FCC after Janet: We’ve gone too far now. We’ve pushed the envelope off the table and forgotten there was a table. You can’t push the envelope any further than I pushed it. So stop! What’s the point?”
I don't think this is a sexist thing at all. I wouldn't want to see Prince flashing his ass at 56 either. But I'm all ears if Madonna has examples of where Prince was lauded for doing something whereas she was given shit for doing the exact same thing. wink

Yeah, Prince would never have his ass hanging out in public.

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Reply #7 posted 12/10/16 4:37am

murph

darkroman said:

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

.

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

See...this^^^^is that bullshit....lol

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Reply #8 posted 12/10/16 4:41am

FUNKNROLL

Somewhat off topic but this is sometimes a good site for sharing/chatting.

I'm not saying misogyny isn't real. But thinking back on my experiences... I'm a guy and I cannot recall being alone with other guys and hearing somebody say (about a woman) "who does she think she is? She needs to realize her place...".

Perhaps that's naive. But I HAVE experienced bigotry. I was once given permission to leave work a little early for a date but "only if it is with a woman" (I'm gay and the remark was serious). I went through customs a year ago and the white agent asked me two times if I'd gotten "anywhere near those dirty Africans" while visiting Italy. But I don't recall hearing the same kind of disrespect or oppression toward women. Calling somebody a bish for being a pain in is no different than calling a man an ass or a dick (pardon my French).

Perhaps Madonna's own success takes the wind out of her argument. She's gotten pretty far regardless of misogyny. Further than plenty of men. The truth is - you can't be successful without experience detractors and attitude. When you push the universe it pushes back.
[Edited 12/10/16 4:44am]
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Reply #9 posted 12/10/16 5:37am

bluegangsta

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darkroman said:

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

Put her alone in a studio a see how long it takes for her to do something.

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #10 posted 12/10/16 5:38am

mnfriend

I was young and living right outside Mpls.
when Prince and Madonna were coming up and their music was in the clubs.
What bothers me personally about how Madonna has evolved
can be summed up in a headline just posted today from her:
I always feel better with something hard between my legs," Madonna told the crowd.

Why? This garbage is demeaning and isn't doing her, or woman in general,
any favors.
To be 'cool' one needs to have 'class'
Not in the same league as Prince.
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Reply #11 posted 12/10/16 5:44am

endiadj

NouveauDance said:



rogifan said:


Maybe perhaps because a lot of what Madonna has done over her career seems contrived? Also I'm not sure Prince was always celebrated for everything he did. But the thing is he grew up and grew out of the need to shock. Madonna never did. Case in point from the 2015 Grammys: madonna-butt-main.jpg Like Prince said in 2004:
“Look at this situation with the FCC after Janet: We’ve gone too far now. We’ve pushed the envelope off the table and forgotten there was a table. You can’t push the envelope any further than I pushed it. So stop! What’s the point?”

I don't think this is a sexist thing at all. I wouldn't want to see Prince flashing his ass at 56 either. But I'm all ears if Madonna has examples of where Prince was lauded for doing something whereas she was given shit for doing the exact same thing. wink

Yeah, Prince would never have his ass hanging out in public.

At 56? No. He said he pushed the envelope when he was younger and he did everything. There was nothing left to push.
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Reply #12 posted 12/10/16 6:05am

callimnate

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Pfft.

One was class and the other was crass. wink
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Reply #13 posted 12/10/16 6:22am

MrNelson7

FUNKNROLL said:

Somewhat off topic but this is sometimes a good site for sharing/chatting. I'm not saying misogyny isn't real. But thinking back on my experiences... I'm a guy and I cannot recall being alone with other guys and hearing somebody say (about a woman) "who does she think she is? She needs to realize her place...". Perhaps that's naive. But I HAVE experienced bigotry. I was once given permission to leave work a little early for a date but "only if it is with a woman" (I'm gay and the remark was serious). I went through customs a year ago and the white agent asked me two times if I'd gotten "anywhere near those dirty Africans" while visiting Italy. But I don't recall hearing the same kind of disrespect or oppression toward women. Calling somebody a bish for being a pain in is no different than calling a man an ass or a dick (pardon my French). Perhaps Madonna's own success takes the wind out of her argument. She's gotten pretty far regardless of misogyny. Further than plenty of men. The truth is - you can't be successful without experience detractors and attitude. When you push the universe it pushes back. [Edited 12/10/16 4:44am]

The thing is, this stuff is never said aloud in these terms. It's in the assumptions, in comments that can be somewhat veiled and couched in niceties, and in ways women are treated. In my own profession (teaching), I am absolutely treated differently by parents, students, and administrators based on my gender. Because I am female, the assumption is that I should be more nurturing towards students (teenagers) than my male colleagues. I cannot tell you how many times I have had a male student or parent expect me to simply "give in" or let something go because I am female and I should kowtow to their demands. I cannot adequately express the incredible frustration I feel when it takes a male saying THE EXACT SAME THING THAT I AM SAYING for people to listen.

Just because you don't hear it, does not mean it doesn't exist. It simply may mean you are not paying attention.

hijacked

Sorry. razz

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Reply #14 posted 12/10/16 6:23am

jdcxc

NouveauDance said:

Well she's not wrong.



Oh please. For a generic pop star, she was hailed and accepted by cultural elites as a maverick. She has been able to live in the mainstream and edge. The conservative criticism has been a foundation for her career, because it definately is not the music or talent.

Prince has also had to fight against the narrow box and stereotypes that a majority of the public/industry puts Black artists/men into.

It wasn't Madonna that was getting chicken, racial and antigay slurs being thrown at her by 100,000 Rolling Stone fans.
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Reply #15 posted 12/10/16 6:32am

FunkiestOne

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darkroman said:

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

.

Well that's not really the point of the thread.

.

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

.

Look at her album sales and she gets the last laugh.

.

lol

.

She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

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Reply #16 posted 12/10/16 6:39am

anangellooksdo
wn

mnfriend said:

I was young and living right outside Mpls.
when Prince and Madonna were coming up and their music was in the clubs.
What bothers me personally about how Madonna has evolved
can be summed up in a headline just posted today from her:
I always feel better with something hard between my legs," Madonna told the crowd.

Why? This garbage is demeaning and isn't doing her, or woman in general,
any favors.
To be 'cool' one needs to have 'class'
Not in the same league as Prince.


Exactly. Prince sang about sex, but his lyrics went over better because he wasn't severe as he got older; he took out the raunchy stuff but was still very sexy. Madonna doesn't have what she needs to achieve this.

Prince still sang about sex, but he did become more responsible lyrically.
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Reply #17 posted 12/10/16 7:11am

bluegangsta

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FunkiestOne said:

She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

Actually, she does write and can play the guitar and keyboards.

[Edited 12/10/16 7:11am]

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #18 posted 12/10/16 7:51am

Strawberrylova
123

Madonna is really delusional, she really thinks she has the same talent as David bowie, prince, whitney, amy Winehouse and tupac...lolzz.
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Reply #19 posted 12/10/16 8:25am

purplethunder3
121

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NouveauDance said:

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

I don't think she's saying otherwise. She's speaking about the ingrained misogyny in entertainment industry.

This. ^^^ She didn't throw any shade on Prince.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #20 posted 12/10/16 8:39am

Mintchip

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i'd just add that the entire point of madonna is that she always gets shit thrown at her...and she triumphs anyway. Without the adversity - the people saying she has no talent, over the hill, a hack - and the ride wouldn't have been half as much fun. Even in the 80s and 90s - at her peak - there was shit thrown, daily. That's the name of her game.

.

I think the biggest threat to her career has been her age - and her own reluctance to accept it, and mature. She was always cool - the coolest chick in the room - but she's lost that for the time being. She hasn't even changed her hairdo in a decade.

.

String together the good songs - the songs that make you dance, the singles that charted, with the bulk coming from the 80s and 90s, but don't discount the last 15 years - and her career is epic. Her catalogue is epic.

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Reply #21 posted 12/10/16 8:44am

TrivialPursuit

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1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.


It's not a comparison, nor a contest. Can we not do that, and just stick to her comments on sexism and bigotry that women face in the industry? It's amazing to me that in 2016 it still happens to blatantly.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #22 posted 12/10/16 8:53am

TrivialPursuit

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I loved her speech. I loved that someone who is known to be provocative 20 years ago can still stand up and say what she said. And she's dead on with her comments. Madonna published the sex book (which I still own and love browsing through sometimes) in 1990. Prince let his ass hang out in 1991 on MTV. He got some jokes, she got labeled every bad name a man and his soccer mom wife could sling at her. Of course, she never did back down.

Prince used God and sex synonymously in his music, equating orgasm with being as close to God as humanly possible. Yet Madonna wears some crosses around her neck while wearing a belt that says "BOY TOY", or makes out with a saint in "Like A Prayer" (a song that equates God and sex), and she's hammered to all fuck for it. (Ironically, a song that Prince played guitar on, and an album that Prince was on anonymously.)

She answered her critics about the Sex book in "Human Nature", "And I'm not sorry/it's human nature/I'm not your bitch don't hang your shit on me". The whole song, not jus the chorus, addresses the stupid backlash for the book. The Girlie show ended up being one of her best tours to date. (And there was a lot of titty in that show, too, including Dancing With The Stars judge Carrie Ann Inaba.)

She wasn't throwing shade at Prince. She modeled her career after Prince early on. She adored him, and fully believed in his genius - enough to copy it. And who wouldn't?! She took the business & promotional side of Prince's career, and put her own work into that. She's still here after how many fucking years? Diss her or not, but other starlets from the 80s ain't hanging around with any great attention. They're lucky to sell out a 3000 seat theater. Madonna's selling out arenas and stadiums. That's staying power, and she did it in the face of a million critics, including the one early on that said she would be a one-hit wonder and fade away (that was a review of her first record, by the way). I wonder where that guy is now?

The ceremony airs December 12 on Lifetime.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #23 posted 12/10/16 8:56am

NouveauDance

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Strawberrylova123 said:

Madonna is really delusional, she really thinks she has the same talent as David bowie, prince, whitney, amy Winehouse and tupac...lolzz.

When did she say that?

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Reply #24 posted 12/10/16 9:01am

scorp84

There's some truth to what she says. Something MJ said in regards to her popularity is also true. He said something to the affect that she doesn't receive the same adulation and praise as artists like he and Prince, because she is a woman, and that always aggitated her as an entertainer. Girls never screamed for her the way they did for her male counterparts. That was something that always fueled her in a way, because she will never get that.

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Reply #25 posted 12/10/16 9:12am

Marrk

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bluegangsta said:

FunkiestOne said:

She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

Actually, she does write and can play the guitar and keyboards.

[Edited 12/10/16 7:11am]

I think she was a drummer in her early days too.

The list of people who she reeled off as gone depressed me. I'm not a huge fan of hers these days but I'm really glad she's still with us.

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Reply #26 posted 12/10/16 9:17am

StopIt

No, she can't "play guitar and piano", stop.

She's a glorified Vaudeville act at best, and even that is probably too gracious.

She lacks the keen sense of timing he had.

Not to mention the wit.

There was always a great sense of desperation about her, which is most distracting and unbecoming.

Plus she can not function without attention, to her detriment and to the detriment of the family members she tried to acquire.

Depressing.

They both had a decent work ethic, that is all.


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Reply #27 posted 12/10/16 9:22am

Mintchip

avatar

FunkiestOne said:

darkroman said:

.

Well that's not really the point of the thread.

.

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

.

Look at her album sales and she gets the last laugh.

.

lol

.

She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

.

You can believe that she doesn't write anything, plays no instruments, and performs poorly, but it's very much your choice to do so, made despite all evidence to the contrary. Which is where the misogyny comes in.

.

I care about music and art. I find hers fun, sexy, full of life, and often beautiful.

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Reply #28 posted 12/10/16 9:36am

darkroman

bluegangsta said:

darkroman said:

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

Put her alone in a studio a see how long it takes for her to do something.

.

Considering Madonna has almost 40 years experience of working in recording studios, I would imagine she would be very proficient indeed.

Certainly better than all of us on here!

.

lol lol lol lol

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Reply #29 posted 12/10/16 9:41am

darkroman

jdcxc said:

NouveauDance said:

Well she's not wrong.

Oh please. For a generic pop star, she was hailed and accepted by cultural elites as a maverick. She has been able to live in the mainstream and edge. The conservative criticism has been a foundation for her career, because it definately is not the music or talent. Prince has also had to fight against the narrow box and stereotypes that a majority of the public/industry puts Black artists/men into. It wasn't Madonna that was getting chicken, racial and antigay slurs being thrown at her by 100,000 Rolling Stone fans.

.

Prince has NEVER been a black artist.

.

Prince's specialism has always been writing and performing 'white' pop and rock.

.

That's why Prince is concidered a 'rock' star and not an rnb artist.

.

Prince also embrassed white radio and white singles charts.

.

So there really wasn't anything black about Prince at all - but he engineered that to cross over to have mass appeal.

.

Anyway it's stupid to call people black and white artists - it's never made any sense.

.

lol lol lol lol

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