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Thread started 11/05/16 6:51pm

bluegangsta

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Censorship on posthumous material?

I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always

I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable

You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #1 posted 11/05/16 7:12pm

Poorlovelycomp
uter

Seeing that was where his lyrics were at back then I feel like no is the answer. Even Cobain wrote a song called Rape me. The bootlegs should be left alone.
"love's the only drug we do in here"-Prince
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Reply #2 posted 11/05/16 7:18pm

Kara

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Those are my favorite outtakes, actually. lol I can't imagine the powers that be wanting to invite that kind of controversy, though.
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Reply #3 posted 11/05/16 7:19pm

bluegangsta

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Poorlovelycomputer said:

Seeing that was where his lyrics were at back then I feel like no is the answer. Even Cobain wrote a song called Rape me. The bootlegs should be left alone.

Firstly, rape was not acceptable in 1982.

And secondly, Prince's lyrics are a little to close to victim-blaming for his actions (in the songs), where as Nirvana's track is done within the metaphorical context of them being the victims.

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #4 posted 11/05/16 7:28pm

3rdeyeboy

"A woman every day should be thanked, not disrespected, not raped or spanked"

Release it all as is. It shows a journey of respect and/or enlightenment.

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Reply #5 posted 11/05/16 7:47pm

Doozer

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My guess is that there's enough material to choose from that this issue will be completely avoided for the foreseeable future.
Check out The Mountains and the Sea, a Prince podcast by yours truly and my wife. More info at https://www.facebook.com/TMATSPodcast/
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Reply #6 posted 11/05/16 8:07pm

lust

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It's telling that of his entire released and unreleased catalogue, the only three examples we know of are songs he chose not to release (or when he did, that lyric was expunged).

No way should they be released today. It would hurt his legend and clearly be against what he thought was appropriate for mass consumption. I think it's a safe bet that he'd be mortified to have those put out.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #7 posted 11/05/16 10:42pm

Poorlovelycomp
uter

Rape is still not acceptable in 2016 nor when Cobain twisted a ugly word to make it acceptable to sing because of where his own life was at the time and I bought all three of their albums anyone listening to Prince back then knew it was all for shock value
"love's the only drug we do in here"-Prince
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Reply #8 posted 11/05/16 11:03pm

udo

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bluegangsta said:

I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always

I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable

You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?

.

The fact that you even think about this stuff means you suffer from political correctness.

Can't we see stuff in context anymore?

Is it a millennial thing?

It is the same as the hoopla with Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet in the Netherlands, every year.

The fake-black Zwarte Piet is perceived as derogatory, discriminatory, etc by some idiots.

Yet in the historic context nothing is wrong with these figures.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #9 posted 11/05/16 11:24pm

lust

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udo said:



bluegangsta said:


I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always


I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable


You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?



.


The fact that you even think about this stuff means you suffer from political correctness.


Can't we see stuff in context anymore?


Is it a millennial thing?


It is the same as the hoopla with Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet in the Netherlands, every year.


The fake-black Zwarte Piet is perceived as derogatory, discriminatory, etc by some idiots.


Yet in the historic context nothing is wrong with these figures.



Taking issue with rape is a bad case of political correctness?

Umm...ok mate.

If that sort of behaviour passes as acceptable in the lowlands, then I'll stick to the high ground. wink
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #10 posted 11/06/16 12:18am

NorthC

Taking issue with rape is one thing, taking issue with song lyrics is another. I'll just quote George Clinton: "Censorship is far worse than anything anybody might have to say."
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Reply #11 posted 11/06/16 12:50am

udo

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lust said:

udo said:

.

The fact that you even think about this stuff means you suffer from political correctness.

Can't we see stuff in context anymore?

Is it a millennial thing?

It is the same as the hoopla with Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet in the Netherlands, every year.

The fake-black Zwarte Piet is perceived as derogatory, discriminatory, etc by some idiots.

Yet in the historic context nothing is wrong with these figures.

Taking issue with rape is a bad case of political correctness?

.

If 'rape' mentions 'as is' are reasons for censorship yes.

If we do not consider the context then everything is black and white.

You simplifying reality to this is no good.

.

Do you also intend to censor US history from the slavery period?

.

Umm...ok mate. If that sort of behaviour passes as acceptable in the lowlands, then I'll stick to the high ground. wink

.

Ethical high ground can not be found anymorein the USA or other places, at least not in the parts where 'government' is present.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #12 posted 11/06/16 1:51am

rogifan

This is an interesting question. See below, which was from this February:

No Phones & No Profanity: An Exclusive Look Inside Prince's Melb Afterparty

The only time throughout the night that Walker received anything but positive feedback from Prince's camp came when he dropped one of the man-of-the-moment's own hits, Head, which Walker was quickly asked to turn off.

"He gave a requirement that he didn’t want any tracks played with any profanity in it, so I knew that before the gig started and then I was thinking, which track of his do I want to play and that was one of my favourite tracks of his," he says.

"...And then he sent his minder up who said, ‘Take it off’."


This is why I don't believe Prince signed off on the track list for the Prince4Ever CD. If he won't let a DJ play Head at an aftershow party no way is he going to stick it on a compilation for mass consumption. Same thing with Sexy MF.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #13 posted 11/06/16 3:03am

databank

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bluegangsta said:

I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always

I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable

You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?

Hell no!

Censorship is an abomination, particularly when it comes to works of art. Songs are stories. Stories are fiction. Fiction has to depict despicable things every once in a while because such things are part of the human reality.

If those songs ever get released, and I hope they will, they must be released as such.

The mere fact that we are discussing this shows how disrespected songs are by comparison to other forms of art. If Prince were a writer or a movie maker and we were talking about releasing an unreleased short story or a short film, it wouldn't cross anyone's mind to ask that question. Songs are not necessarily autobiographic: not every Prince lyric does reflect real thoughts or real personal experiences. Some do. Some don't. Unless proven otherwise, songs are to be treated as works of fiction ans, as such, left alone.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #14 posted 11/06/16 3:11am

smokeverbs

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I've seamlessly edited out the rape parts of Lust U Always and Extra Lovable, and I don't miss them.
Keep your headphones on.
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Reply #15 posted 11/06/16 3:15am

udo

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smokeverbs said:

I've seamlessly edited out the rape parts of Lust U Always and Extra Lovable, and I don't miss them.

.

It's you who needs to get on living with that blasphemy.

As with live shows, I need stuff uncut, uncensored.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #16 posted 11/06/16 3:38am

sunset3121

They were not released at the time and they should not be now. If he chose to release them that would be his decision, for others do demand their release after their death is another matter.

They are out there. You can listen to them if you want to. I like U and have no problems listening to it. I don't want to hear the original extraloveable and I don't want it released posthumously in his name when he would not have wanted that. It triggers levels of anger in me that I don't want to deal with. When I was kidnapped, I thought I was dead. I wanted to hurt the man but I also wanted to leave forensic evidence - his skin under my nails, imprints of my teeth in his face etc. The word rape doesn't trigger these memories or this anger. The description in extraloveable does. It went way too far and is repulsive.

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Reply #17 posted 11/06/16 3:53am

NorthC

smokeverbs said:

I've seamlessly edited out the rape parts of Lust U Always and Extra Lovable, and I don't miss them.

That's like watching a Quentin Tarantino movie with all the violence and the n-words edited out. confused
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Reply #18 posted 11/06/16 4:26am

sunset3121

NorthC said:

smokeverbs said:
I've seamlessly edited out the rape parts of Lust U Always and Extra Lovable, and I don't miss them.
That's like watching a Quentin Tarantino movie with all the violence and the n-words edited out. confused

But not even Tarantino has protagonist rapists that suffer no consequences.

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Reply #19 posted 11/06/16 5:38am

databank

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The argument regarding Prince not choosing to release the tracks in his lifetime is absurdly irrelevant. Following this logic then nothing from the vault, studio or live, should ever be released. And why not after all? But who would we be to decide which content is politically correct and which isn't? A few months back, an engineer reported Prince had some tapes erased over the course of the last few years. If true, that would have been Prince's prerogative, and maybe those songs are among the erased tapes. Everything he left us, he knew could potentially be released at some point after he passed.

.

And I fail to see how Prince's legacy could possibly be tarnished by 3 songs out of hundreds. Oh if those songs are released there will certainly be a few idiots and integrist feminists to make a fuss, but when you are familiar with Prince's body of work and the principles he defended all his life, it cannot be denied that he stood for feminist and egalitarian values his whole life. Certainly some songs he wrote are sexist, mostly songs written for The Time in fact. Works of fiction. Just like those few tracks (Extraloveable, after all, is said to have been made for Vanity to sing, which puts the rape line into a completely different perspective).

.

If certain people have emotional issues or a sensitivity that make certain works of art disturbing to them, they're free not to read/listen to/watch them. I know some people who get sick at the sight of gore: they stay away from horror movies, but they don't ask for horror films to be banned. Those among you who are uncomfortable with the rape lines, fine, just don't listen to the songs or edit them if you have to (as long as you don't share your fanmade edits online), I totally respect that. But do respect those of us who can deal with the shit and let us enjoy the songs if we must.

.

I personally find it intellectually unacceptable to ask for any sort of censorship on works of art. That's what totalitarian states do. That's what obscurantists do. And the problem is once you open that door, even if you say u're gonna draw the line reasonably, you acknowledge the validity of a principle that can and will, sooner or later, be used abusively.

.

And just to make things clear before anyone gets tempted to lecture me, I have been sexually abused, so I'm as legitimate as anyone in taking a stand in this debate.

[Edited 11/6/16 5:39am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #20 posted 11/06/16 6:00am

udo

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databank said:

I personally find it intellectually unacceptable to ask for any sort of censorship on works of art. That's what totalitarian states do. That's what obscurantists do.

.

And millennials because their safe spaces...

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #21 posted 11/06/16 6:14am

luvgirl

bluegangsta said:

I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always


I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable


You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?



I think so, out of respect for him. That is what he would have wanted since his views had changed.
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Reply #22 posted 11/06/16 6:20am

databank

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luvgirl said:

bluegangsta said:

I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always

I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable

You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?

I think so, out of respect for him. That is what he would have wanted since his views had changed.

His views had changed regarding profanity and overtly sexual content, but let us be careful not to imply his views had changed towards rape, as in "he considered it acceptable in 1983", which of course he most certainly didn't. I'm not saying you are implying it but I wouldn't want your words to be misunderstood by some.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #23 posted 11/06/16 6:32am

bluegangsta

avatar

udo said:

The fact that you even think about this stuff means you suffer from political correctness.

Can't we see stuff in context anymore?

Is it a millennial thing?

It is the same as the hoopla with Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet in the Netherlands, every year.

The fake-black Zwarte Piet is perceived as derogatory, discriminatory, etc by some idiots.

Yet in the historic context nothing is wrong with these figures.

Oh, bullshit. I'm a comedian and writer, I spend a good portion of my life spiting political correctness. Don't make assertions about other people when you clearly haven't a damn clue.

Those lyrics I quoted are specifically about victim-blaming for one of the worst acts of violence in our society. If it's politically correct to call it out as unaceptable, well fine.

The history defence is not valid in this case.

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #24 posted 11/06/16 6:41am

udo

avatar

bluegangsta said:

udo said:

The fact that you even think about this stuff means you suffer from political correctness.

Can't we see stuff in context anymore?

Is it a millennial thing?

It is the same as the hoopla with Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet in the Netherlands, every year.

The fake-black Zwarte Piet is perceived as derogatory, discriminatory, etc by some idiots.

Yet in the historic context nothing is wrong with these figures.

Oh, bullshit. I'm a comedian and writer, I spend a good portion of my life spiting political correctness. Don't make assertions about other people when you clearly haven't a damn clue.

Those lyrics I quoted are specifically about victim-blaming for one of the worst acts of violence in our society. If it's politically correct to call it out as unaceptable, well fine.

The history defence is not valid in this case.

.

Context!

History!

Both for the Prince stuff and for Sinterklaas they are fit. Showing 'black' people in a 'subjugated' role is PC-ness for people that do not understand they have gone too far.

Same for the censoring of old Prince songs.

Where would one stop? Discussing fights? Discussing guns? Discussing War? Politics?

All very evil things, especially the latter at this point in time.

You tell the world how your pink glasses would make it look like.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #25 posted 11/06/16 7:02am

bluegangsta

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udo said:

Context!

History!

Both for the Prince stuff and for Sinterklaas they are fit. Showing 'black' people in a 'subjugated' role is PC-ness for people that do not understand they have gone too far.

Same for the censoring of old Prince songs.

Where would one stop? Discussing fights? Discussing guns? Discussing War? Politics?

All very evil things, especially the latter at this point in time.

You tell the world how your pink glasses would make it look like.

I was wondering how long it would take for the 'where do we draw the line' argument to come up. If you haven't conceded a valid point so far in the conversation, I doubt you ever will - you're clearly too busy stereotyping young people with insults to assess your own intellectual and social shortcomings.

Always cry 4 love, never cry 4 pain.
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Reply #26 posted 11/06/16 7:39am

djThunderfunk

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NorthC said:

Taking issue with rape is one thing, taking issue with song lyrics is another. I'll just quote George Clinton: "Censorship is far worse than anything anybody might have to say."

yeahthat The world is not a "safe-space". Those that are triggered should not listen. Problem solved.

Liberty > Authority
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Reply #27 posted 11/06/16 8:05am

udo

avatar

bluegangsta said:

udo said:

Context!

History!

Both for the Prince stuff and for Sinterklaas they are fit. Showing 'black' people in a 'subjugated' role is PC-ness for people that do not understand they have gone too far.

Same for the censoring of old Prince songs.

Where would one stop? Discussing fights? Discussing guns? Discussing War? Politics?

All very evil things, especially the latter at this point in time.

You tell the world how your pink glasses would make it look like.

I was wondering how long it would take for the 'where do we draw the line' argument to come up. If you haven't conceded a valid point so far in the conversation, I doubt you ever will - you're clearly too busy stereotyping young people with insults to assess your own intellectual and social shortcomings.

.

Where dow we draw the line is important.

So we decide to censor Prince's lyrics.

Then what is next to censor? What matter insults someone?

So we censor that one too.

And next... Etc. If you cannot grab that reality then there is no discussion possible.

.

Then the millennials.

Especially from the former US of A news reaches us that millennials in schools over there behave quite childishly.

This is no insult but a matter of fact. I see stuff about safe spaces, snow flakes, etc.

This not by choice but by a different type of upbringing, a different type of family environment than previous generations. This situation shaped their behaviour.

.

I then see a parallel between the 'need' to censort works of art (P's lyrics) and the intents of some extremist millennials.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #28 posted 11/06/16 8:09am

luvgirl

databank said:



luvgirl said:


bluegangsta said:

I will rape you, if I must. - Lust U Always


I guess I'll have to rape you. - Extralovable


You drive a man to rape, you know you do. - U

Should lyrics like this be censored in future releases?



I think so, out of respect for him. That is what he would have wanted since his views had changed.

His views had changed regarding profanity and overtly sexual content, but let us be careful not to imply his views had changed towards rape, as in "he considered it acceptable in 1983", which of course he most certainly didn't. I'm not saying you are implying it but I wouldn't want your words to be misunderstood by some.



You are correct. He certainly didn't consider rape acceptable in 1983. I meant that he was more mindful of the output of sexual content in his lyrics.
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Reply #29 posted 11/06/16 8:10am

sunset3121

udo said:

bluegangsta said:

Oh, bullshit. I'm a comedian and writer, I spend a good portion of my life spiting political correctness. Don't make assertions about other people when you clearly haven't a damn clue.

Those lyrics I quoted are specifically about victim-blaming for one of the worst acts of violence in our society. If it's politically correct to call it out as unaceptable, well fine.

The history defence is not valid in this case.

.

Context!

History!

Both for the Prince stuff and for Sinterklaas they are fit. Showing 'black' people in a 'subjugated' role is PC-ness for people that do not understand they have gone too far.

Same for the censoring of old Prince songs.

Where would one stop? Discussing fights? Discussing guns? Discussing War? Politics?

All very evil things, especially the latter at this point in time.

You tell the world how your pink glasses would make it look like.

The way P wanted his legacy to look. He clearly wanted his vault material released after his death but do you think he wanted that released?

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