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Thread started 10/14/16 2:11pm

purplerabbitho
le

Delay the unreleased 'unheard songs"...the live material is where it is at right now

I am weary of just releasing scraps of music from the vault. I am sure there is brilliance in there, but unless his estate is choosy about what they release, they could do more harm than good. After all, if you never read the Great Gatsby but only read Fitzgerald's half-ass notes in his desk, you might not think he was much of a writer.

The live work is what will cement him as a legend for a long time to come--in the way that live work from the great jazz musicians did.

That's where it is at.

[Edited 10/14/16 22:54pm]

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Reply #1 posted 10/14/16 2:24pm

Revolution

avatar

Completely agree. I believe the vault songs will mostly disappoint, but he always brought it live!
Thanks for the laughs, arguments and overall enjoyment for the last umpteen years. It's time for me to retire from Prince.org and engage in the real world...lol. Above all, I appreciated the talent Prince. You were one of a kind.
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Reply #2 posted 10/14/16 2:26pm

26ten

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

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Reply #3 posted 10/14/16 2:31pm

2olskool4u

purplerabbithole said:

I am weary of just releasing scraps of music from the vault. I am sure there is brilliance in there, but unless his estate is choosy about what they release, they could do more harm than good. After all, if you never read the Great Gatsby but only read Fitzgerald's half-ass notes in his desk, you might not think he was much of a writer.



The live work is what will cement him as a legend for a long time to come--in the way that live work from the great jazz musicians did.



That's where it is at.




Videos, yes, without doubt, but I don't think live albums over studio albums, personally. Live is all about the moment, the whole audio and visual experience.
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Reply #4 posted 10/14/16 2:43pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

No. Live is great, but its retrospective and a facsimile.

The gems I want are from his school. His studio. Where some things worked, and some things didn't.

.
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Reply #5 posted 10/14/16 2:45pm

Todd968

I agree as well. The bits of live performances I've seen on YouTube of Prince's live performances have take. My appreciation of the man to new levels I didn't think were possible. We aren't going to SEE anymore realtime live performances of him at AMA or BET etc. But I think selling videos of live past performances would do well. Plus, in a way, it would be sanctioned by prince because it already was performed performed by him in public. That is the safe bet for success.

However, I would trust someone like ?estlove to hand select and mix the cream of the crop form the archives and release that music.
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Reply #6 posted 10/14/16 2:57pm

airth

avatar

Imagine a massive, sprawling release of the rehearsals, the soundchecks, the one-off gigs, the tours and the aftershows. Imagine having a pristine recording of every unique song he played live. Imagine having a comprehensive online resource of every concert in soundboard quality that could be arranged by date, by venue, by band members, by song or by tour.

His live world has incredible potential to be - and I hate to say it as it should all be just about the music, but here I go - monetized. The question is, how many people have the knowledge of his live performances, outside of hardcore fans and bootleggers, who will ever get access to the vault? Perhaps QuestLove for the pre-nineties. Perhaps Scott Baldwin for post. Perhaps.

I think we'll have to be satisfied with the bootleg releases for years, maybe forever. There's already an incredible amount of material circulating, much of it in superb quality. But a properly curated selection of his live content marketed to the general public would only enhance his reputation as arguably the finest live performer we've ever had the privilege to witness.

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Reply #7 posted 10/14/16 3:03pm

lust

avatar

You don't think even one great album could be pieced together from vault tracks?

We've already got more than enough circulating bootleg tracks that are adored and could easily make a few albums in my opinion.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #8 posted 10/14/16 3:05pm

jdcxc

SquirrelMeat said:

No. Live is great, but its retrospective and a facsimile.

The gems I want are from his school. His studio. Where some things worked, and some things didn't.



Well said. And the sheer mass of material will mean a lot of treasures for everyone. Most of my fave Prince songs have never been on proper albums.
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Reply #9 posted 10/14/16 3:08pm

purplerabbitho
le

My post did mention that they would need to be choosy. I don't doubt there is brilliance in there. It might be like what Susan rogers stated...that 30% of it is brilliant, but we have only heard about 10% of that 30%.. So yes, of course, a couple great albums are certainly a possibility. But if they release 100% of it willy nilly, than that is a problem.

lust said:

You don't think even one great album could be pieced together from vault tracks? We've already got more than enough circulating bootleg tracks that are adored and could easily make a few albums in my opinion.

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Reply #10 posted 10/14/16 3:13pm

purplerabbitho
le

There is a lot of live stuff on youtube that is in pretty good shape. there is also some pretty amauterish footage as well. If you do a compilation of live Montreax concerts, live tv performances, the Rave performance, and then find cleaner footage of the Piano and Microphone tour you could get probably 20+ hours of footage. Even live footage from the 1999, Purple rain, Musicology, and 2011 tour that is a tad grainy (not from a crappy cell phone) would be good as well. There is a ton of stuff on youtube that could be packaged and I imagine Prince did record his live work to analyse it and discuss it. The footage might not be stylistically edited but it would certainly be better than some schmuck with a cell phone.

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

[Edited 10/14/16 15:15pm]

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Reply #11 posted 10/14/16 3:16pm

lust

avatar

purplerabbithole said:

My post did mention that they would need to be choosy. I don't doubt there is brilliance in there. It might be like what Susan rogers stated...that 30% of it is brilliant, but we have only heard about 10% of that 30%.. So yes, of course, a couple great albums are certainly a possibility. But if they release 100% of it willy nilly, than that is a problem.





lust said:


You don't think even one great album could be pieced together from vault tracks? We've already got more than enough circulating bootleg tracks that are adored and could easily make a few albums in my opinion.




Oh, I see. I don't think there's any chance 100% (or even close to it) of it would ever be considered for release. They enough good stuff for one album a year for the next decade or two I should think.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #12 posted 10/14/16 4:56pm

laurarichardso
n

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.


.


OR!


.


I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!


-- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.
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Reply #13 posted 10/14/16 6:01pm

26ten

laurarichardson said:

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

-- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.

Then what I thought was wishful thinking sounds like a total possibility. Why do I ever doubt Prince? I feel so foolish haha

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Reply #14 posted 10/14/16 6:25pm

purplepoppy

Yeah yer right exclaim No will was a present to us.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #15 posted 10/14/16 6:29pm

SquirrelMeat

avatar

laurarichardson said:

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

-- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.

He used to. He didn't end up recording every show.

.
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Reply #16 posted 10/14/16 6:41pm

fen

avatar

Hi all,

I agree that there is likely to be some extraordinary live material in the vault, but I also want to hear as much of the studio work as I can as well. I suppose that it depends upon your expectations and where you find interest in Prince’s music. Personally, I’ve always been less interested in perfectly crafted, radio friendly pop songs than I am in Prince’s more experimental side. I agree, some of the most brilliant music he ever manifested was in a live context (I’ve been listening to the 8th of March 1982 show a great deal recently – it’s superb). But again, as someone who makes music especially, I’d be equally interested in the “failed” studio experiments, the stuff that even Prince felt was too strange and exploratory to release (assuming that it exists – like everyone else, I can’t help but bring my own preoccupations and hopes into my considerations regarding the vault).

I’m probably not in the minority here on the org, but obviously much of this stuff isn’t going to have broad commercial appeal. The question is how should the custodians approach his body of work? Is it to be polished, sanitised and meted out in commercially viable chunks (God forbid that third parties should attempt to “finish” the material)? Personally, I think that it would be deeply misguided to simply cream off the most viable hits and compile a series of posthumous albums aimed at the lowest common denominator. Prince was an artist of the highest calibre, especially during those first 10 years. While the more esoteric material in the vault may not appeal to the average consumer, I can’t help but believe that it will be of interest to musicians and creative communities going forward.

I’ve been following many of these discussions regarding the vault, and in a recent thread a fellow member mentioned that every posthumous release he’d heard had been a disappointment. I immediately thought of an exception, namely the wonderful Miles Davis box-sets (“The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions”, “The Complete In A Silent Way” etc). This is the kind of approach I’d like to see taken toward Prince’s work – compilations that are carefully compiled to highlight Prince’s creative development, drawing from whatever sources are deemed most illuminating or impressive (studio work, rehearsals, discarded experiments etc), almost academic in its approach. Not that I think that this is very likely…

[Edited 10/14/16 18:43pm]

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Reply #17 posted 10/14/16 10:12pm

tomcooper2323

The live material is unreleased vault material. That recordsing haven't been released and where do you think they were stored?

.

I guess you are saying the unreleased songs, vs unreleased live recordings. But basically agree with you there and no doubt, many more highlights and amazing moments in the concert and soundcheck and rehearsal tapes than the outtakes from albums.

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Reply #18 posted 10/14/16 10:46pm

purplerabbitho
le

Point taken.

tomcooper2323 said:

The live material is unreleased vault material. That recordsing haven't been released and where do you think they were stored?

.

I guess you are saying the unreleased songs, vs unreleased live recordings. But basically agree with you there and no doubt, many more highlights and amazing moments in the concert and soundcheck and rehearsal tapes than the outtakes from albums.

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Reply #19 posted 10/14/16 10:52pm

purplerabbitho
le

Don't assume that I wouldn't be interested in the experimental and strange music. i am actually talking about lazy attempts at pop that he threw together quickly and rightfully didn't release. Not everything in that vault is artsy and interesting I imagine. The supposedly unreleased stuff that was briefly on youtube but is now gone was a mixed bag..some really interesting stuff, some solid pop music, and some downright bad music that sounds like Prince knock-offs. Some of the limited release stuff was far from experimental but corny as hell. IMO. Recently, I ran into some of the limited release stuff from One Night Alone and some of it I really loved.

I would love to hear the stuff he did with Miles Davis.

fen said:

Hi all,

I agree that there is likely to be some extraordinary live material in the vault, but I also want to hear as much of the studio work as I can as well. I suppose that it depends upon your expectations and where you find interest in Prince’s music. Personally, I’ve always been less interested in perfectly crafted, radio friendly pop songs than I am in Prince’s more experimental side. I agree, some of the most brilliant music he ever manifested was in a live context (I’ve been listening to the 8th of March 1982 show a great deal recently – it’s superb). But again, as someone who makes music especially, I’d be equally interested in the “failed” studio experiments, the stuff that even Prince felt was too strange and exploratory to release (assuming that it exists – like everyone else, I can’t help but bring my own preoccupations and hopes into my considerations regarding the vault).

I’m probably not in the minority here on the org, but obviously much of this stuff isn’t going to have broad commercial appeal. The question is how should the custodians approach his body of work? Is it to be polished, sanitised and meted out in commercially viable chunks (God forbid that third parties should attempt to “finish” the material)? Personally, I think that it would be deeply misguided to simply cream off the most viable hits and compile a series of posthumous albums aimed at the lowest common denominator. Prince was an artist of the highest calibre, especially during those first 10 years. While the more esoteric material in the vault may not appeal to the average consumer, I can’t help but believe that it will be of interest to musicians and creative communities going forward.

I’ve been following many of these discussions regarding the vault, and in a recent thread a fellow member mentioned that every posthumous release he’d heard had been a disappointment. I immediately thought of an exception, namely the wonderful Miles Davis box-sets (“The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions”, “The Complete In A Silent Way” etc). This is the kind of approach I’d like to see taken toward Prince’s work – compilations that are carefully compiled to highlight Prince’s creative development, drawing from whatever sources are deemed most illuminating or impressive (studio work, rehearsals, discarded experiments etc), almost academic in its approach. Not that I think that this is very likely…

[Edited 10/14/16 18:43pm]

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Reply #20 posted 10/15/16 12:55am

mikeyaddict

avatar

In a dream world I would like the things he was working on that we know about, so for example;
.
Piano and Mic - shows he spoke about getting ready at that final PPAD.
Ruff Enuff - 5 song EP slated for Tidal
Black is the New Black - album
NPGQ - jazz album being worked on around time of lovesex that's my jam broadcast and he was supposedly putting the final touches on recently.
.
The above Dr F has referenced from talking to band members or getting mentioned on interviews and promotion for the tours. Other possibles are also;
.
Hit n Run III - was he working on another phase?
Free Urself - there was t-shirt and an album cover (with Clementine's artwork on it) - kinda hinted at an album as opposed to just the single.
.
What we don't want but will most likely get is another greatest hits package - which I'm not sure who would buy as we have all the songs already! And anyone who came to P following April will have got Ultimate or Greatest at that time.
.
A website where you could just access all the live shows etc and pay per one you get would make the most sense and just u've then all available. I'd defoe buy at least one show for each tour including the shows I was at.
Comin str8 outta Preston...
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Reply #21 posted 10/15/16 4:12am

leecaldon

SquirrelMeat said:

laurarichardson said:

26ten said: -- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.

He used to. He didn't end up recording every show.

I was under the impression that he watched back every show afterwards, even if they weren't all professional, multi-cam shoots.

On the other hand, there are a number of shows I've been to where I can't recall seeing a camera. Still, it's easy enough to set one up by the soundboard and just let it run.

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Reply #22 posted 10/15/16 6:03am

Noodled24

purplerabbithole said:

I am weary of just releasing scraps of music from the vault. I am sure there is brilliance in there, but unless his estate is choosy about what they release, they could do more harm than good. After all, if you never read the Great Gatsby but only read Fitzgerald's half-ass notes in his desk, you might not think he was much of a writer.

The live work is what will cement him as a legend for a long time to come--in the way that live work from the great jazz musicians did.

That's where it is at.


The vault material or at least anything that could be released would need to be in a finished or close to finished state.

The trouble with live releases is that in the 80s/90s Prince cursed a lot. The estate isn't going to put that out so live releases would either need to be heavily edited or from 1999 onwards.

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Reply #23 posted 10/15/16 6:50am

Todd968

I hope they don't wait long to start releasing music. How long has MJ been dead? They promised he had lots of music to be released for years to come but I can't say I remember anything that's been released except maybe a rehash of greatest hits, which don't count.
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Reply #24 posted 10/15/16 6:54am

joyinrepetitio
n

avatar

SquirrelMeat said:

No. Live is great, but its retrospective and a facsimile.

The gems I want are from his school. His studio. Where some things worked, and some things didn't.

This right here. I'd love nothing more to hear his studio works, bad or greatness. It shows where Prince's mind thought was at the time musically for each era.

__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
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Reply #25 posted 10/15/16 11:29am

fen

avatar

purplerabbithole said:

Don't assume that I wouldn't be interested in the experimental and strange music. i am actually talking about lazy attempts at pop that he threw together quickly and rightfully didn't release. Not everything in that vault is artsy and interesting I imagine. The supposedly unreleased stuff that was briefly on youtube but is now gone was a mixed bag..some really interesting stuff, some solid pop music, and some downright bad music that sounds like Prince knock-offs. Some of the limited release stuff was far from experimental but corny as hell. IMO. Recently, I ran into some of the limited release stuff from One Night Alone and some of it I really loved.

I would love to hear the stuff he did with Miles Davis.

fen said:

Hi all,

I agree that there is likely to be some extraordinary live material in the vault, but I also want to hear as much of the studio work as I can as well. I suppose that it depends upon your expectations and where you find interest in Prince’s music. Personally, I’ve always been less interested in perfectly crafted, radio friendly pop songs than I am in Prince’s more experimental side. I agree, some of the most brilliant music he ever manifested was in a live context (I’ve been listening to the 8th of March 1982 show a great deal recently – it’s superb). But again, as someone who makes music especially, I’d be equally interested in the “failed” studio experiments, the stuff that even Prince felt was too strange and exploratory to release (assuming that it exists – like everyone else, I can’t help but bring my own preoccupations and hopes into my considerations regarding the vault).

I’m probably not in the minority here on the org, but obviously much of this stuff isn’t going to have broad commercial appeal. The question is how should the custodians approach his body of work? Is it to be polished, sanitised and meted out in commercially viable chunks (God forbid that third parties should attempt to “finish” the material)? Personally, I think that it would be deeply misguided to simply cream off the most viable hits and compile a series of posthumous albums aimed at the lowest common denominator. Prince was an artist of the highest calibre, especially during those first 10 years. While the more esoteric material in the vault may not appeal to the average consumer, I can’t help but believe that it will be of interest to musicians and creative communities going forward.

I’ve been following many of these discussions regarding the vault, and in a recent thread a fellow member mentioned that every posthumous release he’d heard had been a disappointment. I immediately thought of an exception, namely the wonderful Miles Davis box-sets (“The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions”, “The Complete In A Silent Way” etc). This is the kind of approach I’d like to see taken toward Prince’s work – compilations that are carefully compiled to highlight Prince’s creative development, drawing from whatever sources are deemed most illuminating or impressive (studio work, rehearsals, discarded experiments etc), almost academic in its approach. Not that I think that this is very likely…

[Edited 10/14/16 18:43pm]

Sorry if my comment implied that – I was just speaking broadly about the kind of material that might be sidelined in the wrong hands. I’ve heard most of the circulating outtakes and I agree, it’s a mixed bag. Even some of the well regarded tracks are a little cheesy for me (I’ve never understood Susan’s high opinion of “Moonbeam Levels” for example). But then something like “9 -5 People” emerges...

There are bound to be a lot of interesting instrumentals that never found their way onto official releases (stuff in a similar vein to “Climax”, “Shortberry Strawcake” etc)… who knows? I agree with your main point though, there will be some amazing live material in there. I’m still besotted with the 1984 “Feline” rehearsal.

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Reply #26 posted 10/15/16 11:49am

purplerabbitho
le

I like Moonbeam Levels (but it took me a few listens to appreciate it). Of the demos I heard* (some unreleased, some limited released), these songs were either solid or pretty damn good. There were others I couldn't stand. Not sure what I think about 9-5 people. I will have to listen to it again if I can find it. I will put a star next to the ones I am really digging right now.

Supercute

G-spot *

Moombeam Levels *

I can’t love you

Come Elektra

Pain

Poor Little Bastard

A place in heaven *

Van gogh

Roadhouse garden

I hear your voice (his version of the song he wrote for LaBelle) (* mostly for his singing)

LOVE THY WILL BE DONE

OPEN BOOK

F.U.N.K *

Cause and Effect

Strange Way *

Electric Intercourse *

Adonis and Bathsheba *

Grand progression *

Feel good

Sex of it *

I wonder

Playground

Old Friends 4 sale (original) *

Me touch myself *

Stone*

Avalanche * (don't agree with some of Lincoln stuff, but it is still a good song)

One Night Alone



fen said:

purplerabbithole said:

Don't assume that I wouldn't be interested in the experimental and strange music. i am actually talking about lazy attempts at pop that he threw together quickly and rightfully didn't release. Not everything in that vault is artsy and interesting I imagine. The supposedly unreleased stuff that was briefly on youtube but is now gone was a mixed bag..some really interesting stuff, some solid pop music, and some downright bad music that sounds like Prince knock-offs. Some of the limited release stuff was far from experimental but corny as hell. IMO. Recently, I ran into some of the limited release stuff from One Night Alone and some of it I really loved.

I would love to hear the stuff he did with Miles Davis.

Sorry if my comment implied that – I was just speaking broadly about the kind of material that might be sidelined in the wrong hands. I’ve heard most of the circulating outtakes and I agree, it’s a mixed bag. Even some of the well regarded tracks are a little cheesy for me (I’ve never understood Susan’s high opinion of “Moonbeam Levels” for example). But then something like “9 -5 People” emerges...

There are bound to be a lot of interesting instrumentals that never found their way onto official releases (stuff in a similar vein to “Climax”, “Shortberry Strawcake” etc)… who knows? I agree with your main point though, there will be some amazing live material in there. I’m still besotted with the 1984 “Feline” rehearsal.

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Reply #27 posted 10/15/16 2:40pm

Lovejunky

mikeyaddict said:

A website where you could just access all the live shows etc and pay per one you get would make the most sense and just u've then all available. I'd defoe buy at least one show for each tour including the shows I was at.

THIS definately...

He is reported to have recorded every Live SHow...so START with those..

It will also gather a new Army of Fans becasue PRICE LIVE was incomparable, mesmerising, exciting, and entertaining from the second he hits the stage....

The rest of it, let them take their time and do it properly...

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Reply #28 posted 10/15/16 3:05pm

setecastronomy

We may see Concert, rehearsal, basketball, and some personal footage soon. Prince's video vault goes all the way back to Betamax tapes.

About the music vault, we may hear a handful of treasures. I personally feel they are mostly sketches and ideas. some may even sound familiar as he went to the vault for new ideas off music ideas he put down in the past. A huge pallette of sound....But I would happily listen and archive it all! wink
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Reply #29 posted 10/15/16 3:35pm

bigd74

avatar

Revolution said:

Completely agree. I believe the vault songs will mostly disappoint, but he always brought it live!

you've heard the citculating bootlegs though right? we know there is some great songs in there

She Believed in Fairytales and Princes, He Believed the voices coming from his stereo

If I Said You Had A Beautiful Body Would You Hold It Against Me?
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Delay the unreleased 'unheard songs"...the live material is where it is at right now