independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Tue 25th Sep 2018 10:41pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince: Ambiguous or Duplicitous?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 4 1234>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 06/21/16 11:18pm

Menes

Prince: Ambiguous or Duplicitous?

Which is it?

I remember the first time I heard about Prince's possible link to Fentanyl. It wasn't from the medical examiners office or the Sheriff's investigation. It was the infamous "Dr.D" , who on April 23rd, gave us a glimpse into Prince's addictive behavior. That was a mere (2) days after Prince's death. It was dismissed as all lies and propaganda. Part of the truth is out now. He was an addict , yet ,despised drug use.

1. His secret licensing/distribution/publishing deal with Warner as a subsidary even after swearing them off. Hard to stay away from those who you claim wish to control your music.

2. He implored artist to remove songs from streaming services but signed with Tidal, a streaming service. Tidal is quite similar to the Apple/Spotify format if you understand the revenue matrix.

3. He stated that" he deals with everything thru music, but it's not to promote anything or get the admiration of fans or friends". Well said after 300 million dollars in revenue.

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".

5. Sex before marriage.... He claimed it as a sin, yet, indulged in it like no other.

6. Samples.. He hated samples , yet used them consistently in his songs and live performances.

7. He was lonely, yet relish the thought of being alone. So much more could be said. So which is it?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 06/22/16 12:41am

anangellooksdo
wn

What do you mean by "dabbling in the occult"?
Didn't he sort of veer more towards mysticism or enlightenment eventually? I understand the Dick Gregory and chemtrails stuff sounds a little far out but hey, I don't have all the answers either.
[Edited 6/22/16 4:32am]
~Paisley Park is in your heart~
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 06/22/16 1:26am

sunset3121

He was just a human being, complex and with lots of contradictory thoughts and actions like all of us. However, everything he said and did was scrutinised and taken far too seriously. He made a stand with WB but that didn't mean he didn't appreciate some aspects of their work and that he couldn't renegotiate with them. Most people have to make compromises in life.

You could call it duplicitous, you could call it protecting his private life. His life was under a microscope.

However, I don't think it was as simple as he despised drug use. When asked about it in an interview he implied he had used them (I can't remember the words). I think he wasn't going to have them getting in the way of his career and he most likely despised what they did to people around him.

From a long, long distance though, I can't see any signs of crazy, out of control drug use that would leave a person ODing in front of friends eyes one week and dead the next. Most people who go down that route aren't frantically writing their autobiography and becoming very nostalgic in general, contacting old friends and doing back to back piano and microphone shows where you have to be on form for hours with no signs of any problems. People sometimes OD when they are not used to a drug - but wouldn't usually repeat that a week later.

[Edited 7/9/16 2:10am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 06/22/16 1:30am

PeteSilas

like most people he was a walking contradiction. I can't see him breaking his own ideals without getting a lot out of it though. As far as his religion, we don't know where his head was at regarding that but it's obvious that he was deviating from the strict dogma of the JWS. some religions are much more tolerant of other belief systems and even incorporating them into them. the jw's are not one of them. the "occult" which would include almost everything outside jw doctrine, would be grounds for excommunication. Maybe he was just growing away from them.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 06/22/16 3:08am

laurarichardso
n

Menes said:

Which is it?



I remember the first time I heard about Prince's possible link to Fentanyl. It wasn't from the medical examiners office or the Sheriff's investigation. It was the infamous "Dr.D" , who on April 23rd, gave us a glimpse into Prince's addictive behavior. That was a mere (2) days after Prince's death. It was dismissed as all lies and propaganda. Part of the truth is out now. He was an addict , yet ,despised drug use.



1. His secret licensing/distribution/publishing deal with Warner as a subsidary even after swearing them off. Hard to stay away from those who you claim wish to control your music.



2. He implored artist to remove songs from streaming services but signed with Tidal, a streaming service. Tidal is quite similar to the Apple/Spotify format if you understand the revenue matrix.



3. He stated that" he deals with everything thru music, but it's not to promote anything or get the admiration of fans or friends". Well said after 300 million dollars in revenue.



4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".



5. Sex before marriage.... He claimed it as a sin, yet, indulged in it like no other.



6. Samples.. He hated samples , yet used them consistently in his songs and live performances.



7. He was lonely, yet relish the thought of being alone. So much more could be said. So which is it?




--- What are you on? Do you not know about his pain problems? Do you not know about him getting a higher royalty rate from Tidal then the other services. Do you not realize that everyone in the business had to be on some streaming service to make any money off of their music? Never mind all the money he gave away without any credit to charity which was done with that 300 million. The Occult WTF!!! He did not like people sampling his music without paying for it and being lazy and not coming up with anything original. Sex before marriage many Christians struggle with it but will fall down and we get up and try again God knows we are not perfect.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 06/22/16 3:57am

Wannabeyourlov
er1

Sad to say. He may have been in a lot of pain, but he was and addict for the pain killers. Manuela, his second wife eluded to that with her FB post in 2011. Read it on the org. Our dearly beloved Prince should have gotted help for his addiction way back when. He was not following JW religion. And also, I may say, and I am sure a lot of us saw the interview, when they asked the Elder from his congregation was asked from a news reporter (before the cause of death was announced) if he thought Prince was an addict. The elder paused..... Then the Elder said, No, he did not believe so.

Sadly, now the world knows he had an addiction problem. Sadly, none of his close friends intervened to save him. He didn't seek help until it was too late. Sadly for us fans that loved him so much and for the world we lost the greatest musician on earth.

I WISH YOU LOVE, I WISH YOU HEAVEN SWEET PRINCE...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 06/22/16 5:00am

luvgirl

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".


<


Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear...
[Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 06/22/16 5:02am

teiemka

Wannabeyourlover1 said:

Sad to say. He may have been in a lot of pain, but he was and addict for the pain killers. Manuela, his second wife eluded to that with her FB post in 2011. Read it on the org. Our dearly beloved Prince should have gotted help for his addiction way back when. He was not following JW religion. And also, I may say, and I am sure a lot of us saw the interview, when they asked the Elder from his congregation was asked from a news reporter (before the cause of death was announced) if he thought Prince was an addict. The elder paused..... Then the Elder said, No, he did not believe so.

Sadly, now the world knows he had an addiction problem. Sadly, none of his close friends intervened to save him. He didn't seek help until it was too late. Sadly for us fans that loved him so much and for the world we lost the greatest musician on earth.

.

. I guess this is said post.

Prince is a musician not a lifestyle.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 06/22/16 5:33am

anangellooksdo
wn

ADDICTION VS DEPENDENCY:

It's all about motives at the beginning.

I don't believe Prince was a true addict in the primary sense of the word.
A true addict seeks relief from emotional pain by using drugs.
I believe Prince had physical pain that he took medication for and became dependent on over time. This medication was probably suggested some years ago by a doctor before society was privy to its dangerous addictive and fatal qualities.

In some cases doctors are ahead of our time.
In most cases they are completely clueless, strictly scientific, literal and physical - and behind what society's needs are.
I know. I was given pills that I had to go through a terrible detox to get off of, when all the while there was a better way to cope. What an ordeal.

Unfortunately in order to get scientific-minded people to "see", lives have to be lost.

Now in not blaming doctors entirely; I'm grateful for a lot of what they do. Prince unfortunately didn't get the help he needed in time and I'm not going to guess at why that was. That would be very unfair.
[Edited 6/22/16 5:40am]
~Paisley Park is in your heart~
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 06/22/16 7:29am

TrivialPursuit

Drugs are bad mmkay?

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 06/22/16 7:34am

luvsexy4all

luvgirl said:

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".

<
Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear... [Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]

because he did dabble....lyrics in annastesia

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 06/22/16 7:36am

luvsexy4all

be more concerned with the mind control use of the mind/computer interface system

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 06/22/16 7:45am

Menes

luvgirl said:

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".

<
Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear... [Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]

I think we can ascertain what dabbling in the occult is without having to watch a crazy Youtube video . If you profress Jehovah as your God, then numerology, astrology, esoteric knwoledge, studying the mystery schools of Egypt, the teachings of Immanuel Kant and idealism ,are all contrary to his professed "faith". It's not for me to decide what is wrong or right, but facts are facts. As I said before , even after having knowledge of the "truth" (according to him), the aforementioned practices would be in direct contrast to his own religious beliefs. I could give you some more severe contradictions than that, but you probably would dismiss it as a crazy conspiracy. The question still remains, is it ambiguity or duplicity?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 06/22/16 7:47am

luvsexy4all

Menes said:

luvgirl said:

Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear... [Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]

I think we can ascertain what dabbling in the occult is without having to watch a crazy Youtube video . If you profress Jehovah as your God, then numerology, astrology, esoteric knwoledge, studying the mystery schools of Egypt, the teachings of Immanuel Kant and idealism ,are all contrary to his professed "faith". It's not for me to decide what is wrong or right, but facts are facts. As I said before , even after having knowledge of the "truth" (according to him), the aforementioned practices would be in direct contrast to his own religious beliefs. I could give you some more severe contradictions than that, but you probably would dismiss it as a crazy conspiracy. The question still remains, is it ambiguity or duplicity?

do u listen to lyrics?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 06/22/16 7:54am

Menes

luvsexy4all said:

Menes said:

I think we can ascertain what dabbling in the occult is without having to watch a crazy Youtube video . If you profress Jehovah as your God, then numerology, astrology, esoteric knwoledge, studying the mystery schools of Egypt, the teachings of Immanuel Kant and idealism ,are all contrary to his professed "faith". It's not for me to decide what is wrong or right, but facts are facts. As I said before , even after having knowledge of the "truth" (according to him), the aforementioned practices would be in direct contrast to his own religious beliefs. I could give you some more severe contradictions than that, but you probably would dismiss it as a crazy conspiracy. The question still remains, is it ambiguity or duplicity?

do u listen to lyrics?

Yes. Have you ever been around him? Did you tour with him? Just saying...

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 06/22/16 7:59am

luvsexy4all

Menes said:

luvsexy4all said:

do u listen to lyrics?

Yes. Have you ever been around him? Did you tour with him? Just saying...

read lyrcs to anastesia ..its there

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 06/22/16 8:04am

Menes

luvsexy4all said:

Menes said:

Yes. Have you ever been around him? Did you tour with him? Just saying...

read lyrcs to anastesia ..its there

A birds eye view is more pronounced than any lyrical content. Just saying...

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 06/22/16 8:16am

steakfinger

luvgirl said:

Where did u get this info that he dabbled in the occult, from those crazy conspiracy YouTube videos? Don't believe everything u hear... [Edited 6/22/16 5:16am]

Where did the information come from? The Bible and everything taught by mainstream and not-so-mainstream Christian churches. Akashic Records is considered to be occult. Astrology is considered to be occult. The list is long and varied. I don't believe in any of it, but that's where it comes from. The Bible is quite clear on such things.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 06/22/16 8:17am

rainbowchild

avatar

He was a man of contradictions. He was a Gemini after all. wink
"Just like the sun, the Rainbow Children rise."

"Am I black or white? Am I straight or gay?"

"We had fun, didn't we?"
-Prince (1958-2016) 4ever in my life
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 06/22/16 8:32am

sonshine

avatar

I get where you are coming from. What I keep reminding myself of is the fact that the man did not have the same reality as most of us. He had a blessed life in many respects yet it must have felt like a prison as well. Think about what it would be like to never be able to walk outside in public w/o someone trying to snap your picture. People constantly sticking a camera in your face or sneakily from a distance w/o your knowledge or consent. He had a lot of advantages sure, but I bet he's never been able to do many of the ordinary things we all do every day. That kind of existence could easily make anyone a bit (or a lot!) eccentric. As far as the drugs thing goes I think you would be hard pressed to find an addict who didn't despise drugs. That's not a way of life anyone would choose. At that point it's not a choice. As far as the religion thing I guess one's faith is an ever-evolving journey. Not making excuses for him but he wouldn't be the first to not practice what he preached. That's the thing about sharing your religious beliefs. You run the risk of looking like a hypocrite. No one is perfect. We fall. We get back up. In any case I still feel his inability to do the normal, mundane things we all take for granted every day skewed his rationale to an extent. And aren't creative geniuses always a bit insane?
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 06/22/16 8:39am

Menes

rainbowchild said:

He was a man of contradictions. He was a Gemini after all. wink

Do you think the contradictions led to his early demise?

Take for instance the time line of what hapened on the plane. After he plays the show, (which eneded around 10:30 -11) He gets on the plane. Now it takes 20-30 minutes for fentanyl to kick in before you have a reaction. That means he had it on him already and did it on the plane. Then comes the mysterious "I am transformed" tweet which he led many people to believe it was "spritual". I thought all along he was talking about overdosing and his near death experience. I just didnt put the opiate addiction with it. He saw it as an out of body experience, but the facts are that he was an addict that overdosed. I think his secrets caught up to him. There is no secret that in the industry he was seen as very unpredictable. So much so that he was often branded as one who manipulated the truth to fit his own narratives. He lost a lot of good people because of these same contradictions. He lost himself.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 06/22/16 8:44am

jaawwnn

avatar

This is the Dr. D who also said Prince suffered from "crippling stagefright" and couldn't get on stage unless he was loaded? That one?

[Edited 6/22/16 8:52am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 06/22/16 8:47am

luvsexy4all

jaawwnn said:

This is the Dr. D who also said Prince suffered from "crippling stagefright" and couldn't get on stage unless he was loaded? That one?

If yiz want to call Prince a drug addict and use it as a derogatory term knock yourselves out, says a lot more about you.

u misinterpret....people say he was on painkillers to avoid the other thing

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 06/22/16 8:52am

jaawwnn

avatar

luvsexy4all said:

jaawwnn said:

This is the Dr. D who also said Prince suffered from "crippling stagefright" and couldn't get on stage unless he was loaded? That one?

If yiz want to call Prince a drug addict and use it as a derogatory term knock yourselves out, says a lot more about you.

u misinterpret....people say he was on painkillers to avoid the other thing

yeah, jumped the gun a bit there. I'll edit that bit off sure.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 06/22/16 8:56am

rainbowchild

avatar

Menes said:



rainbowchild said:


He was a man of contradictions. He was a Gemini after all. wink

Do you think the contradictions led to his early demise?



Take for instance the time line of what hapened on the plane. After he plays the show, (which eneded around 10:30 -11) He gets on the plane. Now it takes 20-30 minutes for fentanyl to kick in before you have a reaction. That means he had it on him already and did it on the plane. Then comes the mysterious "I am transformed" tweet which he led many people to believe it was "spritual". I thought all along he was talking about overdosing and his near death experience. I just didnt put the opiate addiction with it. He saw it as an out of body experience, but the facts are that he was an addict that overdosed. I think his secrets caught up to him. There is no secret that in the industry he was seen as very unpredictable. So much so that he was often branded as one who manipulated the truth to fit his own narratives. He lost a lot of good people because of these same contradictions. He lost himself.




He probably thought he cheated death once and he will cheat death once again. I think most addicts have that mindset, thinking, "that was a close call," and "just one more high". Sadly, for many, including Prince, it finally caught up with him. sad
"Just like the sun, the Rainbow Children rise."

"Am I black or white? Am I straight or gay?"

"We had fun, didn't we?"
-Prince (1958-2016) 4ever in my life
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 06/22/16 8:57am

jaawwnn

avatar

Although I will say that what evidence do we have that he was an 'addict'? We know how he died, we know he was on prescription drugs, likely for chronic pain. You can OD without being an addict, and while we're at it what do we mean by 'addict'?

In relation to the original question, i'll say he was ambiguous and likely didn't care about his own contradictions. What he believed in 2014 was not the same was what he believed in 1994 or 1982 or the Tuesday two weeks before...

[Edited 6/22/16 8:59am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 06/22/16 9:12am

sonshine

avatar

jaawwnn said:

This is the Dr. D who also said Prince suffered from "crippling stagefright" and couldn't get on stage unless he was loaded? That one?

[Edited 6/22/16 8:52am]


I still don't know why folks find it so hard to believe he struggled with stage fright, especially early in his career, if not long into it. Y'all act like that would be a bad thing. I'm sure it's not uncommon among performers. I'm not saying he did or didn't, or that he needed something to help him deal with it if he did have it. I'm just saying it's not that hard to believe.
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 06/22/16 10:02am

CherryMoon57

Menes said:

Which is it?

I remember the first time I heard about Prince's possible link to Fentanyl. It wasn't from the medical examiners office or the Sheriff's investigation. It was the infamous "Dr.D" , who on April 23rd, gave us a glimpse into Prince's addictive behavior. That was a mere (2) days after Prince's death. It was dismissed as all lies and propaganda. Part of the truth is out now. He was an addict , yet ,despised drug use.

1. His secret licensing/distribution/publishing deal with Warner as a subsidary even after swearing them off. Hard to stay away from those who you claim wish to control your music.

2. He implored artist to remove songs from streaming services but signed with Tidal, a streaming service. Tidal is quite similar to the Apple/Spotify format if you understand the revenue matrix.

3. He stated that" he deals with everything thru music, but it's not to promote anything or get the admiration of fans or friends". Well said after 300 million dollars in revenue.

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".

5. Sex before marriage.... He claimed it as a sin, yet, indulged in it like no other.

6. Samples.. He hated samples , yet used them consistently in his songs and live performances.

7. He was lonely, yet relish the thought of being alone. So much more could be said. So which is it?

How do you know? Were you there? Have you noticed that he started to "claim it as a sin" during the same era during which he turned his life around and became more spiritual / religious. Putting these two anachronistic statements together without any evidences would be the same as lying or spreading rumors.

'All generalizations are false, including this one.' Mark Twain
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 06/22/16 10:13am

morningsong

sonshine said:

jaawwnn said:

This is the Dr. D who also said Prince suffered from "crippling stagefright" and couldn't get on stage unless he was loaded? That one?

[Edited 6/22/16 8:52am]

I still don't know why folks find it so hard to believe he struggled with stage fright, especially early in his career, if not long into it. Y'all act like that would be a bad thing. I'm sure it's not uncommon among performers. I'm not saying he did or didn't, or that he needed something to help him deal with it if he did have it. I'm just saying it's not that hard to believe.



To the point he was taking Fentanyl in 1984? That's what being published. Nobody's making a big deal over whether or no he had stage fright and lot of performers have claimed that, nobody is questioning that.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 06/22/16 10:28am

Menes

CherryMoon57 said:

Menes said:

Which is it?

I remember the first time I heard about Prince's possible link to Fentanyl. It wasn't from the medical examiners office or the Sheriff's investigation. It was the infamous "Dr.D" , who on April 23rd, gave us a glimpse into Prince's addictive behavior. That was a mere (2) days after Prince's death. It was dismissed as all lies and propaganda. Part of the truth is out now. He was an addict , yet ,despised drug use.

1. His secret licensing/distribution/publishing deal with Warner as a subsidary even after swearing them off. Hard to stay away from those who you claim wish to control your music.

2. He implored artist to remove songs from streaming services but signed with Tidal, a streaming service. Tidal is quite similar to the Apple/Spotify format if you understand the revenue matrix.

3. He stated that" he deals with everything thru music, but it's not to promote anything or get the admiration of fans or friends". Well said after 300 million dollars in revenue.

4. Dabbling in the occult yet claiming to understand the power of God. Can you serve two masters and expect people to think you are serious about saving souls? He still dabbled even after claiming to understand the "truth".

5. Sex before marriage.... He claimed it as a sin, yet, indulged in it like no other.

6. Samples.. He hated samples , yet used them consistently in his songs and live performances.

7. He was lonely, yet relish the thought of being alone. So much more could be said. So which is it?

How do you know? Were you there? Have you noticed that he started to "claim it as a sin" during the same era during which he turned his life around and became more spiritual / religious. Putting these two anachronistic statements together without any evidences would be the same as lying or spreading rumors.

When do you believe he turned his life around and became more spritual/religious? Was it when he was a Seventh Day Adventist believer? Was it when he "converted"and became a JW?

Where do you think he got his religious tenants from? Do you think he made them up as he got older? They are the same tenants he had when he was young.

He was quite grounded in traditional doctrinces of the "church", which was a far contrast to the life he lived privately. Squrimish isn't it?

He always intended sexuality to be linked to worship of whatever being he thought was God. Do you remember the time when he came out quite forcefully against gay marriage? Do you know why he said that in 2008? Do you remember his views on adultery? As perverted as he was is as conservative as he was. There is no secret that he did not condone sex before marriage but we know he didnt practice what he preached. Who do you think is spreading rumors? Were you touring? Interesting.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 4 1234>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Prince: Ambiguous or Duplicitous?