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Thread started 06/12/16 1:22pm

KRTREE

A different Prince

Interesting:

Read with a compassionate heart

http://guineveregetssober.com/a-different-prince/

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Reply #1 posted 06/12/16 1:39pm

Bunsterdk

Agree, it's interesting. And extremely sad. sad

I have noticed it in his eyes too. Can anyone date the three pictures in the article?
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Reply #2 posted 06/12/16 1:42pm

CROWNS1

Interesting read. I've noticed the pupils in alot of photos too, and wondered if that is why he wore sunglasses alot. He was a complex man. I think you could spend a lifetime trying to figure him out and not even come close. Here is another article where the same writer was interviewed: https://www.minnpost.com/...e-his-own. She said she has researched photos of him going back 25-30 years.

[Edited 6/12/16 13:50pm]

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Reply #3 posted 06/12/16 1:55pm

cardinal

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i came across this the other day and had mixed feelings about posting it although i am glad someone did.

once you are told about the tiny pupils, they are easy to spot in closeups. i also wonder if this is why he wore sunglasses a lot. he was informed and very well read, he may have known this was a visible sign that is nearly impossible to mask.

i wish the family would just tell us how the hell this happened. we know he was not getting high. if they released part of autopsy report, perhaps the part detailing the (no doubt) extensive damage to his joints, people would be much more likely to understand and feel compassion for the agony he was surely in.
"If u love somebody, your life won't be in vain
And there's always a rainbow, at the end of every rain."--peace and love, dear prince.....
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Reply #4 posted 06/12/16 1:56pm

KRTREE

The article started off here. MINNPOST

https://www.minnpost.com/mental-health-addiction/2016/06/jennifer-matesa-writer-addiction-prince-was-out-there-his-own#comment-247089

If you scroll to the bottom and read comments two individuals stand out

Lowell Prescot has two

Jim Million has some interesting information as well.

Skip the rest

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Reply #5 posted 06/12/16 2:04pm

cardinal

avatar

CROWNS1 said:

Interesting read. I've noticed the pupils in alot of photos too, and wondered if that is why he wore sunglasses alot. He was a complex man. I think you could spend a lifetime trying to figure him out and not even come close. Here is another article where the same writer was interviewed: https://www.minnpost.com/...e-his-own. She said she has researched photos of him going back 25-30 years.

[Edited 6/12/16 13:50pm]



her description of the scary crushing feeling of respiratory depression haunts me.

"The feeling of respiratory depression is really scary. It is beyond your control. It is almost as if you are lying down and someone is stacking bricks on your chest. You can’t breathe. I am very fortunate that I didn’t die."

if he was feeling that in the elevator while unable to call for help, well i just can't bear the thought of it. i had always hoped, and still do, that he dropped unconscious and did not feel a thing. but this first person account opens the possibility that it was not an easy passing for him.

the family needs to realize that his fams are in great anguish and give us more info. for those who want to know.
"If u love somebody, your life won't be in vain
And there's always a rainbow, at the end of every rain."--peace and love, dear prince.....
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Reply #6 posted 06/12/16 2:06pm

sonshine

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This has crossed my mind many times since he passed. I now can't watch a past performance without looking for the "signs" and now they seem quite obvious. But how much of these signs are imagined only because of what we now know? It's hard to say. I'm not doubting the author of this blog post at all. I think its legit. I just hate that now I can't watch him without wondering if he was high every time he performed. Not that it would matter to me. I don't judge. It wouldn't take away from my devotion and respect for him. It just adds another layer of sadness to the whole situation. It hurts knowing this person so adored was struggling with this huge burden for possibly a very long time. It couldn't have been easy for him. Ever. Even with all the fame and success it couldn't have ever been an easy life for him. That's heartbreaking on a deeper level to me.
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #7 posted 06/12/16 2:08pm

CROWNS1

I like what Lowell had to say:

"

Prince was painfully shy as a child, and lived his entire life in a form of isolation due to the very unfortunate circumstances of his upbringing. That isolation continued throughout his life, and fame only made it worse. It's very clear from the stories which circulate that he simply could not establish the types of "normal" human relationships that most people do quite naturally. Think about that for a moment.

It was because of this that he had no support network to step in when he really needed it, which is the point of Matesa's (somewhat cold) comments. But the fault for that must be spread pretty widely, and include the absent and abusive parents, the fawning staff, the awed collaborators, and even the adoring fans. You can blame Prince if you want, but he was clearly the victim here, albeit of circumstances which he either couldn't avoid, or actively cultivated in the empty hope of resolving issues that went back (literally) to his birth.

From an early age, fame seduced him as a possible way to right the wrongs he'd been born into, but it did the opposite, compounding them beyond the point that he could ever hope to recover. Prince's body died of a fentanyl overdose, but because no one was there to help him get the help he couldn't get for himself, he actually lost his life to the deep isolation of fame."

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Reply #8 posted 06/12/16 2:15pm

Bunsterdk

But would it also show up in the pupils if he were still only using it to treat the pain and not in too large doses? It doesn't really say.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that he has been in increasing trouble over the last approximately two years.

This is heartbreaking. sad
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Reply #9 posted 06/12/16 2:24pm

mimi1956

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Bunsterdk said:

Agree, it's interesting. And extremely sad. sad I have noticed it in his eyes too. Can anyone date the three pictures in the article?

The shorter hair after 2004 I think, before 2012. Couldn't the light from the flashes when these pictures were taken also have caused that effect. Your pupils adjust to the light. Just a thought.

admission is easy, just say U believe, then come 2 this place in your heart.
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Reply #10 posted 06/12/16 2:28pm

endiadj

i don't get that if this drug is so strong how do you take it for 3 years and still live? if a grain or two could kill you and it's 80 times as strong as heroin, and people die of heroine ods everyday, how how does one stay alive let alone function at all on fentanyl? doesn't add up.
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Reply #11 posted 06/12/16 2:34pm

KRTREE

CROWNS1 said:

I like what Lowell had to say:

"

Prince was painfully shy as a child, and lived his entire life in a form of isolation due to the very unfortunate circumstances of his upbringing. That isolation continued throughout his life, and fame only made it worse. It's very clear from the stories which circulate that he simply could not establish the types of "normal" human relationships that most people do quite naturally. Think about that for a moment.

It was because of this that he had no support network to step in when he really needed it, which is the point of Matesa's (somewhat cold) comments. But the fault for that must be spread pretty widely, and include the absent and abusive parents, the fawning staff, the awed collaborators, and even the adoring fans. You can blame Prince if you want, but he was clearly the victim here, albeit of circumstances which he either couldn't avoid, or actively cultivated in the empty hope of resolving issues that went back (literally) to his birth.

From an early age, fame seduced him as a possible way to right the wrongs he'd been born into, but it did the opposite, compounding them beyond the point that he could ever hope to recover. Prince's body died of a fentanyl overdose, but because no one was there to help him get the help he couldn't get for himself, he actually lost his life to the deep isolation of fame."

Me too. Somehow helpful to the grieving process for me, which remains ongoing....so sad.

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Reply #12 posted 06/12/16 2:34pm

cardinal

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endiadj said:

i don't get that if this drug is so strong how do you take it for 3 years and still live? if a grain or two could kill you and it's 80 times as strong as heroin, and people die of heroine ods everyday, how how does one stay alive let alone function at all on fentanyl? doesn't add up.


the eye pinning does not just happen with fentanyl but with all opioids. so prince could have been on another pain controller, and then only when that no longer helped his pain, he started fentanyl. that could explain the changes in his eyes and the high functioning abilities he retained up until the end.

my gut tells me the fentanyl was fairly new and his body could not handle it. i also think it might be why the dea got involved.
"If u love somebody, your life won't be in vain
And there's always a rainbow, at the end of every rain."--peace and love, dear prince.....
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Reply #13 posted 06/12/16 2:35pm

dreaminaboutu

endiadj said:

i don't get that if this drug is so strong how do you take it for 3 years and still live? if a grain or two could kill you and it's 80 times as strong as heroin, and people die of heroine ods everyday, how how does one stay alive let alone function at all on fentanyl? doesn't add up.

I agree with you. It will never make sense to me. I listen to his show in Atlanta and that funky piano breakdown for "Black Sweat" and I am thinking fentanyl my ass. We continue to believe that just because someone is some sort of official that they will always tell us the truth. I know we need closure and all that. That is a human way to cope but in my gut it just does not fit.

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Reply #14 posted 06/12/16 2:35pm

Bunsterdk

mimi1956 said:



Bunsterdk said:


Agree, it's interesting. And extremely sad. sad I have noticed it in his eyes too. Can anyone date the three pictures in the article?

The shorter hair after 2004 I think, before 2012. Couldn't the light from the flashes when these pictures were taken also have caused that effect. Your pupils adjust to the light. Just a thought.



Thanks - yeah, this very good point is made in comments to the second article as well. One picture seems to be from the Black Sweat video, doesn't it? They wouldn't have used a flash light for that, but definitely strong lights of course.

I saw footage from around a year ago where I am certain he was under the influence of something. It was so painful to watch that I won't share the link, sorry. He would have hated to be seen like that, and it's had me down in the dumps for a couple of days now. Trying to erase it from my mind.

Something was definitely going on over the last year or two. It is really plain to see in his eyes - the expression, not the pupils.
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Reply #15 posted 06/12/16 2:36pm

endiadj

the small pupils could be from glaring lights or anything. doesn't means it's from drug use.
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Reply #16 posted 06/12/16 2:40pm

funksterr

I just don't think the issue was 'performance pain'. I'm sure that was a major factor, in how he ended up, but it just doesn't jibe with me that he was completely drug free before the hip pain.

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Reply #17 posted 06/12/16 2:50pm

CherryMoon57

endiadj said:

the small pupils could be from glaring lights or anything. doesn't means it's from drug use.

My exact thought when I read this article. Everyone's pupils are tiny whenever facing bright lights or sunshine. Using such photos as evidence to what the article suggests just makes it less convincing.

'Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter' Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Reply #18 posted 06/12/16 2:54pm

TopazGirl

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Bunsterdk said:

mimi1956 said:

The shorter hair after 2004 I think, before 2012. Couldn't the light from the flashes when these pictures were taken also have caused that effect. Your pupils adjust to the light. Just a thought.

Thanks - yeah, this very good point is made in comments to the second article as well. One picture seems to be from the Black Sweat video, doesn't it? They wouldn't have used a flash light for that, but definitely strong lights of course. I saw footage from around a year ago where I am certain he was under the influence of something. It was so painful to watch that I won't share the link, sorry. He would have hated to be seen like that, and it's had me down in the dumps for a couple of days now. Trying to erase it from my mind. Something was definitely going on over the last year or two. It is really plain to see in his eyes - the expression, not the pupils.


When he appeared on the American Music Awards in November 2015, his expression seemed kind of frozen (not sure how to say it exactly) and his eyes had an unusual kind of wide open, vacant look. It's easy to say this in hindsight, however. And I've said this before, but the actual video of him moving around and talking it is not as noticeable, but the still shots is where you notice it more as well as the drawn look of his face. He just did not seem relaxed when he was on stage.

"And I know you're not just what you say to me
And I'm not the only moment you're made of..."
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Reply #19 posted 06/12/16 2:59pm

TopazGirl

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CherryMoon57 said:

endiadj said:

the small pupils could be from glaring lights or anything. doesn't means it's from drug use.

My exact thought when I read this article. Everyone's pupils are tiny whenever facing bright lights or sunshine. Using such photos as evidence to what the article suggests just makes it less convincing.


I don't take the pupil thing as reliable evidence either. It appears most of those shots are in direct light and the other one you can't really tell for sure.


"And I know you're not just what you say to me
And I'm not the only moment you're made of..."
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Reply #20 posted 06/12/16 3:01pm

sonshine

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cardinal said:

CROWNS1 said:

Interesting read. I've noticed the pupils in alot of photos too, and wondered if that is why he wore sunglasses alot. He was a complex man. I think you could spend a lifetime trying to figure him out and not even come close. Here is another article where the same writer was interviewed: https://www.minnpost.com/...e-his-own. She said she has researched photos of him going back 25-30 years.

[Edited 6/12/16 13:50pm]



her description of the scary crushing feeling of respiratory depression haunts me.

"The feeling of respiratory depression is really scary. It is beyond your control. It is almost as if you are lying down and someone is stacking bricks on your chest. You can’t breathe. I am very fortunate that I didn’t die."

if he was feeling that in the elevator while unable to call for help, well i just can't bear the thought of it. i had always hoped, and still do, that he dropped unconscious and did not feel a thing. but this first person account opens the possibility that it was not an easy passing for him.

the family needs to realize that his fams are in great anguish and give us more info. for those who want to know.

Your link didn't work for me but this did:
https://www.minnpost.com/...re-his-own
I believe more pieces of Prince's puzzling persona and public mystique may all be attributed to a life long struggle of dealing with his past (a dysfunctional family/childhood demons) and subsequent substance abuse. It doesn't pay to get angry about this and reject the notion because you can't bear the idea that Prince was human and had problems. My heart is breaking today all over again realizing how broken the man probably was. Take it from someone who has personal experience with the trauma of childhood abandonment and neglect. It's real and it's significant. Most of the ways victims deal with the pain are unhealthy and destructive. It can take years to finally understand where all your issues began. And it can take years to fix them - if you ever do. It's much easier to isolate yourself, either consciously or subconsciously, to prevent having to deal with all the baggage and pain. The loneliness from the isolation becomes almost unbearable but it's hard to undo a lifetime of living. It's no surprise that mind and mood altering substances become a key tool to survival for people in deep emotional pain. I think Prince like anyone else struggling with painful memories and substance abuse didn't want to be that person and wanted to find his way out of it via religion. He was trying to be a good person. It's too bad that society makes people with addictions out to be bad people. It prevents addicts from getting the real help they need. When you add in the physical pain from years of performing it's just too much for any individual to manage alone.
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #21 posted 06/12/16 3:03pm

gatorgirl

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I have a lot issues with this article. I feel she is trying to transpose her life and Prince's life and the truth is we have no clue what really happened to him or why. Given he seemed to lose weight only in the last year or so I think his issues were rather recent. I also think he had other conditions besides just arthritis from performing which caused him pain. As for his pupils, that is from lighting as basically all photos of him used a flash. That is a massive stretch to say he has has drug issues for 25-30 years based on his eyes in photographs.
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Reply #22 posted 06/12/16 3:04pm

ACharmed1

Hi to all, I'm new posting here but since P's passing found a strange comfort in the posts and family that's here. Thank U all, U've made me smile many times and brought a bit of clairty which is what I hope to do now. This "article" and I use that term loosely has done it for me I can't take anymore.

The term of addiction IMHO needs to stop with P. Dependency I can accept and understand. I have a lot of experience with the pain medications P was KNOWN to take. My mom has cancer, and many other issues, my dad has cancer, I have multiple health issues in which I have to take said meds. In addition I'm also a photographer, I've covered many live acts been around many artists and this notion that it's all there in his pupils is insane.

Go to the eye Dr what's 1 of the 1st things done? Shine a light in Ur eye to pin pupils. What do you see in his eyes in those photos? A light. The kind of lights used in photos shoots are harsh on eyes Ur eyes pin period. Same on stage, many performers I know wear sunglasses to block the stage lights/flash from cameras. If Ur around lights that intense long enough yeah, U'll wear sunglasses often.

Another thing about this article this person is an admitted addict. Sucking a fentanyl patch is addict behaviour. Having a Dr. that prescribes fentanyl for migraines and fibromyalgia is extremely suspect. That med is not easily given out. I get migraines too and never have I had a Dr. give me fentanyl for the pain.

I think it's important to remember that no matter what has been said this may have been P's first and only dose. No matter what though, it all comes down to chronic pain. I suffer from chronic pain as well and I've been in so much pain there have been times I literally prayed to God to take my life and give it to someone in need. When you hurt just to breathe and life holds very little pleasure or joy U lose hope, no matter how much of a fighter U are.

I wish ppl would start realising he took pain medication to control pain. That's it. Not an addict. It breaks my heart that this man who gave the world his all, took all kinds of hell for various things in his life is now being turned into some street urchin type pill popper and being made into a poster child for the drug epidemic in death. It's sickening.

I'm not a Dr., only a person who has had to use these meds, and NO I'm not an addict. Dependant on them to function on a daily basis at times? Yes, and there is no shame in that. As I said I only hope to offer some comfort to someone reading this, and hopefully some insight or understanding I can't stand P being ravaged like this. Sorry for the long post.

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Reply #23 posted 06/12/16 3:06pm

gatorgirl

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sonshine said:

This has crossed my mind many times since he passed. I now can't watch a past performance without looking for the "signs" and now they seem quite obvious. But how much of these signs are imagined only because of what we now know? It's hard to say. I'm not doubting the author of this blog post at all. I think its legit. I just hate that now I can't watch him without wondering if he was high every time he performed. Not that it would matter to me. I don't judge. It wouldn't take away from my devotion and respect for him. It just adds another layer of sadness to the whole situation. It hurts knowing this person so adored was struggling with this huge burden for possibly a very long time. It couldn't have been easy for him. Ever. Even with all the fame and success it couldn't have ever been an easy life for him. That's heartbreaking on a deeper level to me.


He wasn't high. In fact, most people do not get high off these medications. Less than 10%.
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Reply #24 posted 06/12/16 3:08pm

CherryMoon57

TopazGirl said:

CherryMoon57 said:

My exact thought when I read this article. Everyone's pupils are tiny whenever facing bright lights or sunshine. Using such photos as evidence to what the article suggests just makes it less convincing.


I don't take the pupil thing as reliable evidence either. It appears most of those shots are in direct light and the other one you can't really tell for sure.


Whatever the intent of the article is, this seems more like whoever decided to add these photos is clutching at straws... Because of the lack of real evidence.

'Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter' Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Reply #25 posted 06/12/16 3:10pm

gatorgirl

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ACharmed1 said:

Hi to all, I'm new posting here but since P's passing found a strange comfort in the posts and family that's here. Thank U all, U've made me smile many times and brought a bit of clairty which is what I hope to do now. This "article" and I use that term loosely has done it for me I can't take anymore.





The term of addiction IMHO needs to stop with P. Dependency I can accept and understand. I have a lot of experience with the pain medications P was KNOWN to take. My mom has cancer, and many other issues, my dad has cancer, I have multiple health issues in which I have to take said meds. In addition I'm also a photographer, I've covered many live acts been around many artists and this notion that it's all there in his pupils is insane.





Go to the eye Dr what's 1 of the 1st things done? Shine a light in Ur eye to pin pupils. What do you see in his eyes in those photos? A light. The kind of lights used in photos shoots are harsh on eyes Ur eyes pin period. Same on stage, many performers I know wear sunglasses to block the stage lights/flash from cameras. If Ur around lights that intense long enough yeah, U'll wear sunglasses often.





Another thing about this article this person is an admitted addict. Sucking a fentanyl patch is addict behaviour. Having a Dr. that prescribes fentanyl for migraines and fibromyalgia is extremely suspect. That med is not easily given out. I get migraines too and never have I had a Dr. give me fentanyl for the pain.





I think it's important to remember that no matter what has been said this may have been P's first and only dose. No matter what though, it all comes down to chronic pain. I suffer from chronic pain as well and I've been in so much pain there have been times I literally prayed to God to take my life and give it to someone in need. When you hurt just to breathe and life holds very little pleasure or joy U lose hope, no matter how much of a fighter U are.





I wish ppl would start realising he took pain medication to control pain. That's it. Not an addict. It breaks my heart that this man who gave the world his all, took all kinds of hell for various things in his life is now being turned into some street urchin type pill popper and being made into a poster child for the drug epidemic in death. It's sickening.





I'm not a Dr., only a person who has had to use these meds, and NO I'm not an addict. Dependant on them to function on a daily basis at times? Yes, and there is no shame in that. As I said I only hope to offer some comfort to someone reading this, and hopefully some insight or understanding I can't stand P being ravaged like this. Sorry for the long post.





Good reply. I agree. I wonder if he took laced medications not knowing it was fentanyl or if he wasn't tolerant to the dose. We have no clue what people were telling him. I wish he had had an honest medical professional there to help.
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Reply #26 posted 06/12/16 3:15pm

jkrumes

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I don't think she's off-base with the pupil thing, but as others have already stated, pupils can be affected by light or flash. What I had actually noticed, in more recent times, is that his eyes seemed glassy.

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Reply #27 posted 06/12/16 3:24pm

sonshine

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gatorgirl said:

sonshine said:

This has crossed my mind many times since he passed. I now can't watch a past performance without looking for the "signs" and now they seem quite obvious. But how much of these signs are imagined only because of what we now know? It's hard to say. I'm not doubting the author of this blog post at all. I think its legit. I just hate that now I can't watch him without wondering if he was high every time he performed. Not that it would matter to me. I don't judge. It wouldn't take away from my devotion and respect for him. It just adds another layer of sadness to the whole situation. It hurts knowing this person so adored was struggling with this huge burden for possibly a very long time. It couldn't have been easy for him. Ever. Even with all the fame and success it couldn't have ever been an easy life for him. That's heartbreaking on a deeper level to me.


He wasn't high. In fact, most people do not get high off these medications. Less than 10%.

Ok, maybe "high" was the wrong choice of word since that gives the idea he was using recreationally i.e. to party which I do not believe. Pain is pain whether it's emotional or physical. And it's certainly not hard to believe he was in emotional pain his entire life. I don't really care to know more details about his autopsy etc. But I do hope more people with some insight to his early life will come forward. Although enough of them have at least for me to get that he had scars. One interview I heard from someone from his childhood involved the telling the time a young Prince was locked in his room for six weeks! That leaves a scar. It leaves the individual unable to have healthy relationships in adulthood. Those failures only add to an already damaged psyche. And so it goes and grows.
[Edited 6/12/16 15:25pm]
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #28 posted 06/12/16 3:26pm

CherryMoon57

sonshine said:

gatorgirl said:
He wasn't high. In fact, most people do not get high off these medications. Less than 10%.
Ok, maybe "high" was the wrong choice of word since that gives the idea he was using recreationally i.e. to party which I do not believe. Pain is pain whether it's emotional or physical. And it's certainly not hard to believe he was in emotional pain has entire life. I don't really care to know more details about his autopsy etc. But I do hope more people with some insight to his early life will come forward. Although enough of them have at least for me to get that he had scars. One interview I heard from someone from his childhood involved the telling the time a young Prince was locked in his room for six weeks! That leaves a scar. It leaves the individual unable to have healthy relationships in adulthood. Those failures only add to an already damaged psyche. And so it goes and grows.

eek Where did you hear this from?

'Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter' Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Reply #29 posted 06/12/16 3:28pm

morningsong

I found the article interesting based on the author's personal experience because I've never been in an situation of ever having to deal with pain medication stronger than a couple uses of codeine. So I'm respectful and all ears on those things. Now the pinpoint pupil thing I find questionable because anyones pupils pinpoint in bright light, I use to play with mine all the time as kid using a flashlight and mirrors, pinpoints with no drugs involved, given these are photographs nobody can say how much light was in his face so I can't point to these as some kind of concrete evidence of the level of an addiction problem. Without the informtion that we know of a pain mgmt/addiction doctor being called we'd wouldn't even be able to guess if this was an addiction problem or a new user problem.
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