independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Scriptural inaccuracy in 4 the Tears in Your Eyes
« Previous topic  Next topic »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 05/05/16 9:08am

fms

avatar

Scriptural inaccuracy in 4 the Tears in Your Eyes

This has been documented before. In the Bible Jesus never turns stone to bread. I'm a little curious though why Prince included that lyric in the song. Especially since We Are The World makes the same error: "as God has shown us by turning stone to bread..."
My best guess is that Prince wrote the song quickly and used the image from the other song for his. Why would they both make the same error and not catch it?
It's a curious thing too because I the Bible Jesus is tempted to do just that - turn stone to bread - when he has fasted and is hungry. But he refused to do so.

Don't want this to be a theological debate, just a discussion on Prince's music and lyrics. Anyone care to share your thoughts on 4 The Tears in Your Eyes and its lyrics?
Thanks.
Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths...(Jeremiah 6:16) www.ancientfaithradio.com

dezinonac eb lliw noitulove ehT
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 05/05/16 9:10am

BillieBalloon

Probably because the song is about feeding the hungry.
Baby, you're a star.

Meet me in another world, space and joy
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 05/05/16 9:16am

68686

One thought to consider is even if such was never mentioned in any bible would that make it then impossible for God to show that or to have already shown that.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 05/05/16 9:22am

weirdozmedia

avatar

Because song lyrics only need to be good enough, and neither Prince or MJ were theologians.

¡The Future Is Ours, If You Can Count! https://www.youtube.com/w...A_zTY0qWWk
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 05/05/16 9:23am

McD

avatar

I always found this lyric incredibly and stupidly offensive on We Are The World.

If God is known for previously turning stone to bread when millions continue to die of hunger, then God either a) wants them to die, b) doesn't exist or, God help us, c) did it so that thousands of years later American pop stars can pretend to have been inspired by it, when in fact we all know the inspiration was actually Bob Geldof and Midge Ure.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 05/05/16 4:06pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

It's one of those inaccuracies that stick, even though it's untrue. It's the same with "money is the root of all evil". That's false. The scripture says "the love of money is the root of all evil", which gives it a while different meaning.

.

Those lines in "We Are The World" and "4 The Tears In Your Eyes" always bugged me.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 05/05/16 4:12pm

AlgeriaTouchsh
reek

isn't "turning stone to bread" more about the work involved in milling grain into flour to ultimately make bread? Or at least The Work Part I.??

i wish i'd never kissed your lips, bearded lady
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 05/05/16 4:27pm

cardinal

avatar

the song was recorded in 85, so it is likely that prince's spiritual evolution/bible study was in a very different place at that point. he was still in his twenties, and while always deeply spiritual, I could see him not being a total stickler for accuracy back then, especially if the lyrics were in WATW previously.

just my two cents

"do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta bawl
[Edited 5/5/16 16:27pm]
"If u love somebody, your life won't be in vain
And there's always a rainbow, at the end of every rain."--peace and love, dear prince.....
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 05/05/16 5:43pm

prittypriss

Matthew 4:1-4

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

.....

This analogy by Prince could mean that every word that came out of this man's mouth was the Truth or Word of God (thus the turning stone to bread).

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 05/06/16 7:29am

cardinal

avatar

prittypriss said:

Matthew 4:1-4



1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.


3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.


4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


.....


This analogy by Prince could mean that every word that came out of this man's mouth was the Truth or Word of God (thus the turning stone to bread).



phenomenal pick up! of course it was in the bible somewhere and he knew exactly what he meant.

" do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta bawl
"If u love somebody, your life won't be in vain
And there's always a rainbow, at the end of every rain."--peace and love, dear prince.....
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 05/06/16 8:26am

kenkamken

avatar

The other part of the lyric that irks me is how Jesus "made the dumb understand", when the Bible refers to Jesus healing a man who was mute and couldn't speak, (dumb being another word for mute in this instance). Oh well. Still love u Prince, there's been more than a few tears in my eyes of late.
[Edited 5/6/16 9:27am]
"So fierce U look 2night, the brightest star pales 2 Ur sex..."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 05/06/16 8:28am

Genesia

avatar

kenkamken said:

The line that irks me is "make the dumb understand", when Jesus actually healed a man who was mute and couldn't speak. Oh well.


In that case, he sacrificed accuracy to save the rhyme.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 05/06/16 10:36am

prittypriss

Again, in the Bible, in Exodus:

9 And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe also these two signs, neither hearken unto thy voice, that thou shalt take of the water of the river, and pour it upon the dry land: and the water which thou takest out of the river shall become blood upon the dry land.

10 And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord?

12 Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say.

13 And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send.

.

Moses was stating that the people would not believe him. God was saying that he would help them to understand. The verse in the song always reminded me of this, that God would make those that did not understand, to understand. *shrug* But could be reading more into it.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 05/06/16 10:43am

weirdozmedia

avatar

cardinal said:

prittypriss said:

Matthew 4:1-4

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

.....

This analogy by Prince could mean that every word that came out of this man's mouth was the Truth or Word of God (thus the turning stone to bread).

phenomenal pick up! of course it was in the bible somewhere and he knew exactly what he meant. " do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta bawl

It's not in the Bible somewhere, that's the point. The devil challenges Jesus to turn stone into bread, and Jesus refuses to.

¡The Future Is Ours, If You Can Count! https://www.youtube.com/w...A_zTY0qWWk
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 05/06/16 10:52am

TraSoul82

Genesia said:



kenkamken said:


The line that irks me is "make the dumb understand", when Jesus actually healed a man who was mute and couldn't speak. Oh well.


In that case, he sacrificed accuracy to save the rhyme.


How is that inaccurate? "Dumb" is/was often used to describe the mute. If they were suddenly able to speak, then they would understand his power.

I'm not vouching for the validity of the statement, but logically it makes sense if you take the bible literally.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 05/06/16 10:53am

prittypriss

weirdozmedia said:

cardinal said:

prittypriss said: phenomenal pick up! of course it was in the bible somewhere and he knew exactly what he meant. " do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta bawl

It's not in the Bible somewhere, that's the point. The devil challenges Jesus to turn stone into bread, and Jesus refuses to.

.

Read what I had said, though. A different take on the analogy. That it is not what goes into a man's mouth, but what comes out of it. Therefore, in a sense, turning what is dead (the stone) to what nourishes (God's word - bread of life).

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 05/06/16 11:06am

SanMartin

avatar

Also, remember that quite a lot of this kind of stuff depends on which translation of the Bible you're reading. For example, if I recall correctly, in the original Hebrew Genesis refers to figs in the Garden of Eden, not apples. Translation can change much of a text's meaning.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 05/06/16 11:25am

kenkamken

avatar

TraSoul82 said:

Genesia said:


In that case, he sacrificed accuracy to save the rhyme.

How is that inaccurate? "Dumb" is/was often used to describe the mute. If they were suddenly able to speak, then they would understand his power. I'm not vouching for the validity of the statement, but logically it makes sense if you take the bible literally.

That is my point, the reference in the Bible is dumb as in mute, not dumb as someone stupid or ignorant (in need of understanding).

Matthew 9:32-33

32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.

33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.

So much fun dissecting Prince lyrics, any other instances of Prince malaproprisms?

"So fierce U look 2night, the brightest star pales 2 Ur sex..."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 05/06/16 11:46am

DiscoBallz

kenkamken said:

TraSoul82 said:

Genesia said: How is that inaccurate? "Dumb" is/was often used to describe the mute. If they were suddenly able to speak, then they would understand his power. I'm not vouching for the validity of the statement, but logically it makes sense if you take the bible literally.

That is my point, the reference in the Bible is dumb as in mute, not dumb as someone stupid or ignorant (in need of understanding).

Matthew 9:32-33

32 As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.

33 And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel.

So much fun dissecting Prince lyrics, any other instances of Prince malaproprisms?

I think the context in the song is that the dumb would understand how to speak by understanding God's glory or w/e.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 05/06/16 1:30pm

cardinal

avatar

weirdozmedia said:



cardinal said:


prittypriss said:

Matthew 4:1-4



1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.


2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.


3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.


4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


.....


This analogy by Prince could mean that every word that came out of this man's mouth was the Truth or Word of God (thus the turning stone to bread).



phenomenal pick up! of course it was in the bible somewhere and he knew exactly what he meant. " do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta bawl


It's not in the Bible somewhere, that's the point. The devil challenges Jesus to turn stone into bread, and Jesus refuses to.



i am not always putting my words out right....mind still not together....what i meant to say was that the reference to the transmutation (whether or not it occurred) was there....as to how he presented it, only he could say what the intent was. but my guess is that he knew what he was doing, or as i guessed earlier, his bible study was not at that point what it was later. either is ok with me.

"do i have a friend tonight?" --prince at his last concert in atlanta bawl
"If u love somebody, your life won't be in vain
And there's always a rainbow, at the end of every rain."--peace and love, dear prince.....
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 05/06/16 1:40pm

jcurley

Regardless...prince turned a crass psuedo virtuous pile of wank into something quite delicate and beautiful. X
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 05/06/16 2:43pm

kenkamken

avatar

jcurley said:

Regardless...prince turned a crass psuedo virtuous pile of wank into something quite delicate and beautiful. X

As always he took a lot of flak for his decision at the time, which later proved to be the best choice. I am glad he opted out of that mess, yet contributed something quite beautiful on his own terms.

"So fierce U look 2night, the brightest star pales 2 Ur sex..."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 05/07/16 3:24am

jcurley

kenkamken said:



jcurley said:


Regardless...prince turned a crass psuedo virtuous pile of wank into something quite delicate and beautiful. X


As always he took a lot of flak for his decision at the time, which later proved to be the best choice. I am glad he opted out of that mess, yet contributed something quite beautiful on his own terms.



Exactly! God I remember at the time hoping he wouldn't appear on live aid. I know it damaged his career in America but I think it proved his integrity
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Scriptural inaccuracy in 4 the Tears in Your Eyes