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Thread started 03/28/16 12:44pm

jayspud

Lotusflow3r, Prince & Value for Money

A few months ago I had a challenging discussion with a blogger called Simon Williams regarding HNR 1 which he felt wasn't really a Prince album and whilst we disagreed, it was a discussion which had a great deal of value to me. Discussing opposing ideas and allowing others to challenge them is one of the great joys of this site.

He has written a new blog regarding Lotusflw3r but more generally Prince's relationship with money. Whilst I don't agree withi his central point and have found Prince, over his career, to be tremendous value for money especially if worked out on an hourly basis, I would like to hear what others think of his position.

https://simoncwilliamsblo...he-weaves/

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Reply #1 posted 03/28/16 5:01pm

controversy99

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That's a nice little essay/blog post. I'm a fan of Prince music for about 30 years, but there was no way I was gonna sign up for Lotusflow3r when it first came out. $77 for an unknown Prince website. Not gonna happen. Prince websites are really the main thing by him that I avoided. The best and only one that I used was the non-membership bases NPGMC Download Store. That was a great. A straightforward and stylish website, $10 per album, and ability to also buy download any singles. And the new music was decent -- not great, but at least decent.
"Love & honesty, peace & harmony"
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Reply #2 posted 03/28/16 5:09pm

bobzilla77

I remember the album and website launch quite well, I went to a listening party where the site designer, Scott Addison Clay, gave us a presentation on the layout. I remember there was some stupid hitch to make it work, like you had to enter text in a box under an LP title, that was the year the LP came out, to get into the site, with no clues or hints what you needed to type. I remember thinking, people are going to be PISSED if they have to figure that out while the clock is ticking away on the ticket sale!

.

They showed us the design, which looked kind of clunky, but pointed to the virtual jukebox which was said to be loaded with music and video clips, some exclusive to the site. I had a mental picture of a Youtube type player where you could watch all his music videos, plus rare & unreleased stuff.

.

Honestly if I wasn't broke at the time, I'd have paid the $77 based on what they were promising. NPG Music Club was great, one of the best artist websites ever. At least I could have used my secret knowledge to get in quickly and score presale tickets to his Conga Room show. But anyway...

.

Clay later said that while he and his team designed the interface, it was ultimately Prince who had the responsibility to provide all that exclusive content they promised, and he never delivered it. Also one of the main benefits on the site was access to presale tickets, and he didn't tour. Just three small shows in LA.

.

While the website was a complete disaster and I don't blame people who felt ripped off, the release of the disc itself was pretty cheap. $12 for a 3-CD set at Target, if I remember right. And IMO, LF was one of his better releases at the time. I was a little disappointed he didn't work more songs from it into his setlist at the time. Just another one of those mind-boggling events.

.

Anyway if you want "value for money" you can get the 3-disc set on Ebay for about $2.50 today. It's the one Prince title I regularly find in the used bins.

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Reply #3 posted 03/29/16 5:30am

Bohemian67

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Well firstly, the guy should put himself out of his misery and just buy HitnRun II it's hardly 'money' for what you get in return. The last tracks on 1 are good. Fans are lucky Prince brings out diverse albums to suit each musical palette, because how many artists after an album or two start to sound too generic? If he doesn't want to buy let's hope he gets to a concert and gets it as a gift to take home and continue the experience. He's cutting off his nose to spite his face.

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I was never part of the NPG so maybe I am not a good judge of before and after Prince websites. I joined Lotusflower when there were just 6 or so months left. I didn't find it expensive at the time as I got three albums and a chance to be in a different galaxy. I never got the t-shirt but I don't wear t-shirts anyway, not even at home and would never wear one that advertise anything either.

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Feedback on Lotusflower retrospectively? There was nothing personal about it, no purple pick of the week, playlists or concerts from what I remember. Parts of yes. I'm not sure what was added over the year and I suppose as I only listen to one album now with a few MPLS sound tracks on one playlist you could say it was an expensive cd. In that sense you could say the blog author has a point. But i would argue that if you calculate the cost of music to the long-term pleasure derived from it, it is barely an expense.

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Was Lotusflower site good? Not really. Too little variety compared to you-tube which offers audio, visual, debate and/or just space to leave an appreciative comment/or not which is you-tube's USP. You-tube is collective but also a double edged sword if you're against Google and Apple for their tax avoidance practices but need and use both. Hopefully Tidal, still in its baby shoes, can eventually replace Apple store. Real music lovers should support Tidal.

Thing is, artists need to unite to keep up with the mergers of the Global Pacman pill eating commercialism. Only together will they manage to form any structural kind of defence against domination and greed. As long as they are divided, like Left wing politics, it leaves a lot of playing field for Right wing conservatism and entitlement to take advantage. As there is also an overload of artists this is going to be difficult. Chapeau to Prince and those other major artists that take a stand and do what is right, rather than what is expected.

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I don't mind paying extra for what I like and even if I pay for something and don't like it afterwards (practically 1.5 cds from Lotusflower) I chuck it. Maybe that's fickle, but c'est la vie. It's only money and I like to keep my harddrive and my head clean, not cluttered with 'maybe one day'. What I chuck others love, that's what makes the world colourful. It's all good.

"Free URself, B the best that U can B, 3rd Apartment from the Sun, nothing left to fear" Prince Rogers Nelson - Forever in my Life -
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Reply #4 posted 03/29/16 6:17am

mattosgood

jayspud said:

A few months ago I had a challenging discussion with a blogger called Simon Williams regarding HNR 1 which he felt wasn't really a Prince album and whilst we disagreed, it was a discussion which had a great deal of value to me. Discussing opposing ideas and allowing others to challenge them is one of the great joys of this site.

He has written a new blog regarding Lotusflw3r but more generally Prince's relationship with money. Whilst I don't agree withi his central point and have found Prince, over his career, to be tremendous value for money especially if worked out on an hourly basis, I would like to hear what others think of his position.

https://simoncwilliamsblo...he-weaves/

Lotusflw3r = great album (a top 5 Prince Lp for me albeit at No.5) but dreadful website and the value pack of MSPLSound and the lady's Cd - distracted from how good Lotusflw3r was and is

not listened to it in a while - go back and try it - a guitar influenced blissful experience

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Reply #5 posted 03/29/16 6:33am

databank

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Delivering with Lotusflow3r.com wouldn't have been so hard: we were promised no download content beyond the 3 albums IIRC but given the quantity of material in the vault Prince could easily have given us as much material to stream than he'd given us to download with NPGMC in 2001. Even 5 new tracks a month, audio or vid, studio or live, would have been enough to make us happy.

.

I really do not understand what went thru P's mind on that one: I subscribed from day 1 and felt not only ripped off but totally insulted by the time the site went down. It was a really, really bad move and a real missed opportunity for Prince to improve his relationship with his fanbase sad

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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Reply #6 posted 03/30/16 9:48am

Se7en

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databank said:

Delivering with Lotusflow3r.com wouldn't have been so hard: we were promised no download content beyond the 3 albums IIRC but given the quantity of material in the vault Prince could easily have given us as much material to stream than he'd given us to download with NPGMC in 2001. Even 5 new tracks a month, audio or vid, studio or live, would have been enough to make us happy.

.

I really do not understand what went thru P's mind on that one: I subscribed from day 1 and felt not only ripped off but totally insulted by the time the site went down. It was a really, really bad move and a real missed opportunity for Prince to improve his relationship with his fanbase sad

LotusFlow3r.com came out in 2009 when my hours were cut in half. I debated and debated joining ($77 was not really in the budget) but I did on the off chance that it would be like the NPGMC.

I felt ripped off too, especially when the albums showed up in Target not too long after.

So our lasting exclusive content from the fanclub are The Morning After and a T-shirt.

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Reply #7 posted 03/30/16 12:06pm

databank

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Se7en said:

databank said:

Delivering with Lotusflow3r.com wouldn't have been so hard: we were promised no download content beyond the 3 albums IIRC but given the quantity of material in the vault Prince could easily have given us as much material to stream than he'd given us to download with NPGMC in 2001. Even 5 new tracks a month, audio or vid, studio or live, would have been enough to make us happy.

.

I really do not understand what went thru P's mind on that one: I subscribed from day 1 and felt not only ripped off but totally insulted by the time the site went down. It was a really, really bad move and a real missed opportunity for Prince to improve his relationship with his fanbase sad

LotusFlow3r.com came out in 2009 when my hours were cut in half. I debated and debated joining ($77 was not really in the budget) but I did on the off chance that it would be like the NPGMC.

I felt ripped off too, especially when the albums showed up in Target not too long after.

So our lasting exclusive content from the fanclub are The Morning After and a T-shirt.

There were actually 9 live vids that were exclusive only to the site (2 of them being 2 different edits of the same track)... I didn't know how to record the video stream but was at least able to save them in audio. That wasn't worth 77 bucks though, particularly given how cheap the album was at Target. We basically paid The Morning After and each of these streamed vids about 8 dollars each. It's quite expensive if u ask me sad

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...scography/
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