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Thread started 03/13/16 1:18pm

ChrisLacy1990

ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION: PRINCE'S MOST UNDERRATED ALBUM?

Prince's career has been through peaks and valleys for decades but, if you have followed his music since the beginning, chances are there's a particular era that stands out. For me, the LOVE SYMBOL era is his most underrated, but before I explain why, it's important to remember what was going on in music and culture at this time:


1. Generation X: In schools and on the streets, kids went from listening to the glitzy pop of Michael Jackson and Prince over to the gritty hip-hop of Dr. Dre, LL Cool J, and A Tribe Called Quest.


2. Stiff Competition: Other artists began to appear in other genres such as Nirvana, Mariah Carey, Garth Brooks, and MC Hammer.


3. New Jack Swing: This street-inspired movement, created by Teddy Riley, dominated radio and MTV by paying homage to its roots of Motown soul, James Brown funk, and Stevie Wonder studio mastery.


4. Prince vs. PURPLE RAIN: Every Prince album since PURPLE RAIN (except for SIGN O' THE TIMES) got the side-eye treatment if it didn't measure up to the success he saw in 1984. Although DIAMONDS AND PEARLS album sold roughly 7 million copies worldwide, that didn't stop people from saying that Prince was struggling to stay relevant.


So, in true Prince fashion, we have the LOVE SYMBOL album which covers more ground, musically and lyrically, than most artists would attempt in their entire career:


1. Sexy MF

2. Love to the 9's

3. The Morning Papers

4. Blue Light

5. Sweet Baby

6. Damn U

7. 7

8. And God Created Woman

9. 3 Chains o' Gold

To be clear, LOVE SYMBOL is not a flawless album but it does deserve to be revisited if cut down to these nine tracks. Which album/era in Prince's career should get more love? Comment below and thanks for reading!

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Reply #1 posted 03/13/16 1:40pm

NorthC

The prince album gets a lot of love here on the org, so it's certainly not underrated here. All the things you mention are exactly why I don't like it: it was Prince trying waaay too hard to prove that he could do everything.
My choice... Emancipation. Sure, the production is slick and "plastic", but it's got some wonderful songs that let you know something about what's going on in his life. (Holy River for instance) which was exactly what was missing in his "hey, look I'm just as bad as those rappers" attitude that ruined so much of his music in 1991-95.
[Edited 3/13/16 13:41pm]
[Edited 3/13/16 13:42pm]
[Edited 3/13/16 13:42pm]
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Reply #2 posted 03/13/16 1:51pm

ChrisLacy1990

NorthC said:

The prince album gets a lot of love here on the org, so it's certainly not underrated here. All the things you mention are exactly why I don't like it: it was Prince trying waaay too hard to prove that he could do everything. My choice... Emancipation. Sure, the production is slick and "plastic", but it's got some wonderful songs that let you know something about what's going on in his life. (Holy River for instance) which was exactly what was missing in his "hey, look I'm just as bad as those rappers" attitude that ruined so much of his music in 1991-95. [Edited 3/13/16 13:41pm] [Edited 3/13/16 13:42pm] [Edited 3/13/16 13:42pm]

Yes, LOVE SYMBOL is appreciated here on the Org but not so much in the mainstream which is what prompted me to write this blog. I'm surprised that his musicianship was a turnoff for you; most of the reviews I've seen - from fans and critics alike - are fascinated by his ability to apply his touch to nearly every genre imaginable.

I recently created an amended playlist of my favorite EMANCIPATION tracks (10 instead of 36), and I agree with you wholeheartedly. If taken in proper doses, it's terrific.

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Reply #3 posted 03/13/16 2:54pm

thanks2joniand
u

LOTUSFLOW3R

THE RAINBOW CHILDREN

HITNRUN PHASE 2

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Reply #4 posted 03/13/16 4:02pm

ChrisLacy1990

thanks2joniandu said:

LOTUSFLOW3R

THE RAINBOW CHILDREN

HITNRUN PHASE 2


LOTUSFLOW3R is another one of my personal favorites. It's musically and lyrically impressive, and it gives Prince an opportunity to showcase his skills on the ax. "Colonized Mind" is one of the most powerful tunes he wrote in the '00s.

THE RAINBOW CHILDREN, on the other hand, is an album that I'm still learning to digest. As a Southern Baptist believer, I'm instantly turned off by the Jehovah's Witness agenda; however, I plan on revisiting that album with a fresh pair of ears to see what flashes of brilliance, if any, exist.


HITNRUN: PHASE TWO was, in every respect, a homecoming! Prince reached back and dusted off his classic sound (although brilliantly updated) with an emphasis on grand melodies and a renewed reliance on guitar, bass, and drums. Tracks such as "Revelation," "Look at Me, Look at U," and "Stare" show us why it remains unwise to count him out.

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Reply #5 posted 03/13/16 4:13pm

MattyJam

avatar

I adore Love Symbol, probably my favourite Prince album, warts and all. But as someone else said, it's rated quite highly on the org.

If we're discussing his most underrated album by his own fans, I'm going to go with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic. I often wonder if the album had been the smash it was obviously intended to be, whether fans would've warmed to it more. I mean, a song like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do could've been an international number one hit for Prince, I swear. It's one of those songs that's so universal it could be one of those staples at weddings and first dances etc.

And I still maintain that TGRES was his last truly great single and only failed to catch on because of a botched release.

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Reply #6 posted 03/13/16 4:49pm

ChrisLacy1990

MattyJam said:

I adore Love Symbol, probably my favourite Prince album, warts and all. But as someone else said, it's rated quite highly on the org.

If we're discussing his most underrated album by his own fans, I'm going to go with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic. I often wonder if the album had been the smash it was obviously intended to be, whether fans would've warmed to it more. I mean, a song like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do could've been an international number one hit for Prince, I swear. It's one of those songs that's so universal it could be one of those staples at weddings and first dances etc.

And I still maintain that TGRES was his last truly great single and only failed to catch on because of a botched release.

Hey, I appreciate you reading my post and leaving some feedback! I have mixed emotions about RAVE UN2 THE JOY FANTASTIC. Unfortunately, the majority of the songs here are forgettable except for "The Greatest Romance Ever Sold," "Man o' War" and "Strange But True."

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Reply #7 posted 03/13/16 5:26pm

214

Come, what do you meanby the plastic production of Emancipation?

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Reply #8 posted 03/13/16 6:30pm

KoolEaze

avatar

MattyJam said:

I adore Love Symbol, probably my favourite Prince album, warts and all. But as someone else said, it's rated quite highly on the org.

If we're discussing his most underrated album by his own fans, I'm going to go with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic. I often wonder if the album had been the smash it was obviously intended to be, whether fans would've warmed to it more. I mean, a song like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do could've been an international number one hit for Prince, I swear. It's one of those songs that's so universal it could be one of those staples at weddings and first dances etc.

And I still maintain that TGRES was his last truly great single and only failed to catch on because of a botched release.

That song had a lot of potential to become a big hit. Very accessible, easy to relate to, has universal lyrics and the music is good, too. People I know instantly liked it when they heard it.

The Sun , Moon and Stars is another good song but the ending with the fake Jamaican accent sounds very corny and dated. I liked when he revisitied this gem of a relaxed, laid back song a while ago.

-

The Love Symbol album also has some great songs on it but, much like Sun, Moon and Stars, many of the really nice songs on Love Symbol have bits and parts that irk me and sound dated.....but despite those elements, I like the songs in general. It´s just few details that rub me the wrong way, like the rapping, the bragging, the silly Egyptian Princess storyline and concept, or the blood reference and having sex with a virgin lyric in I Wanna Melt With U .

But then there also some real early 90s classics on it such as Damn U, And God Created Woman and 7 on it.

I know it sounds sacrilegious and barbaric....but this is an album that would benefit greatly from re-editing and rewriting. It is an interesting collection of songs and great musicianship.

The Sacrifice of Victor is a very introspective and inspirational song. It was a bold move to put such a highly autobiographic and personal song on a commercial album.

The segues were so annoying.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"
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Reply #9 posted 03/13/16 6:46pm

jdcxc

KoolEaze said:



MattyJam said:


I adore Love Symbol, probably my favourite Prince album, warts and all. But as someone else said, it's rated quite highly on the org.

If we're discussing his most underrated album by his own fans, I'm going to go with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic. I often wonder if the album had been the smash it was obviously intended to be, whether fans would've warmed to it more. I mean, a song like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do could've been an international number one hit for Prince, I swear. It's one of those songs that's so universal it could be one of those staples at weddings and first dances etc.

And I still maintain that TGRES was his last truly great single and only failed to catch on because of a botched release.



That song had a lot of potential to become a big hit. Very accessible, easy to relate to, has universal lyrics and the music is good, too. People I know instantly liked it when they heard it.


The Sun , Moon and Stars is another good song but the ending with the fake Jamaican accent sounds very corny and dated. I liked when he revisitied this gem of a relaxed, laid back song a while ago.


-


The Love Symbol album also has some great songs on it but, much like Sun, Moon and Stars, many of the really nice songs on Love Symbol have bits and parts that irk me and sound dated.....but despite those elements, I like the songs in general. It´s just few details that rub me the wrong way, like the rapping, the bragging, the silly Egyptian Princess storyline and concept, or the blood reference and having sex with a virgin lyric in I Wanna Melt With U .


But then there also some real early 90s classics on it such as Damn U, And God Created Woman and 7 on it.


I know it sounds sacrilegious and barbaric....but this is an album that would benefit greatly from re-editing and rewriting. It is an interesting collection of songs and great musicianship.


The Sacrifice of Victor is a very introspective and inspirational song. It was a bold move to put such a highly autobiographic and personal song on a commercial album.


The segues were so annoying.



Good Points. Love Symbol, stripped of the excess, is brilliant songwriting and songcraft.
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Reply #10 posted 03/13/16 7:30pm

bonnie184

Controversy

5 reasons

title track - The Prince sound is established

sexuality

do me, baby - The Prince ballad is established

private joy - ...you belong to Prince

let's work

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Reply #11 posted 03/14/16 4:46am

RJOrion

For You
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Reply #12 posted 03/14/16 8:05am

dodger

KoolEaze said:

MattyJam said:

I adore Love Symbol, probably my favourite Prince album, warts and all. But as someone else said, it's rated quite highly on the org.

If we're discussing his most underrated album by his own fans, I'm going to go with Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic. I often wonder if the album had been the smash it was obviously intended to be, whether fans would've warmed to it more. I mean, a song like Wherever U Go Whatever U Do could've been an international number one hit for Prince, I swear. It's one of those songs that's so universal it could be one of those staples at weddings and first dances etc.

And I still maintain that TGRES was his last truly great single and only failed to catch on because of a botched release.

That song had a lot of potential to become a big hit. Very accessible, easy to relate to, has universal lyrics and the music is good, too. People I know instantly liked it when they heard it.

The Sun , Moon and Stars is another good song but the ending with the fake Jamaican accent sounds very corny and dated. I liked when he revisitied this gem of a relaxed, laid back song a while ago.

-

The Love Symbol album also has some great songs on it but, much like Sun, Moon and Stars, many of the really nice songs on Love Symbol have bits and parts that irk me and sound dated.....but despite those elements, I like the songs in general. It´s just few details that rub me the wrong way, like the rapping, the bragging, the silly Egyptian Princess storyline and concept, or the blood reference and having sex with a virgin lyric in I Wanna Melt With U .

But then there also some real early 90s classics on it such as Damn U, And God Created Woman and 7 on it.

I know it sounds sacrilegious and barbaric....but this is an album that would benefit greatly from re-editing and rewriting. It is an interesting collection of songs and great musicianship.

The Sacrifice of Victor is a very introspective and inspirational song. It was a bold move to put such a highly autobiographic and personal song on a commercial album.

The segues were so annoying.

That Jamaican accent/rap is hilarious. Surely he was taking the piss.

.

Also agree with you on the Symbol album. This was the album that really got me into Prince and I still love it as much today but the 'storyline' and segues I can do without. God Created Woman is one of my all time favourites.

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Reply #13 posted 03/14/16 11:48am

ForbiddenFruit

Parade

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Reply #14 posted 03/14/16 11:55am

ChrisLacy1990

bonnie184 said:

Controversy

5 reasons

title track - The Prince sound is established

sexuality

do me, baby - The Prince ballad is established

private joy - ...you belong to Prince

let's work

All great points, bonnie184! Sometimes an album's reputation is unfairly tainted by its placement in the catalog. I believe that this is the case for AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY and, your choice, CONTROVERSY.

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Reply #15 posted 03/14/16 11:57am

ChrisLacy1990

ForbiddenFruit said:

Parade

Help me better understand why you believe PARADE doesn't get as much love? I happen to have PARADE in my Top 5 so your answer surprises me.

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Reply #16 posted 03/14/16 11:59am

ChrisLacy1990

RJOrion said:

For You

Interesting choice, RJOrion. Walk me through why you believe that FOR YOU doesn't get as much shine as the other albums in Prince's discography.

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Reply #17 posted 03/14/16 12:14pm

jasminejoey

avatar

214 said:

Come, what do you meanby the plastic production of Emancipation?

Yes, I would like to know myself. This criticism of Emancipation is repeated ad nauseum and there's really no merit to it.

Incidentally, Rave and Emancipation are the most underrated Prince albums by a landslide.

[Edited 3/14/16 12:15pm]

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Reply #18 posted 03/14/16 4:06pm

ForbiddenFruit

ChrisLacy1990 said:

ForbiddenFruit said:

Parade

Help me better understand why you believe PARADE doesn't get as much love? I happen to have PARADE in my Top 5 so your answer surprises me.

Parade is considered as one of his finest albums - among fans. It's also my favourite album.

BUT:

Rolling Stone top 500 albums - not included (Purple Rain #72, 1999 #163, Sign 'O' The Times #93, Dirty Mind #206)

NME top 500 albums - not included (Purple Rain #91, Sign 'O' The Times #198, Dirty Mind #393)

1001 albums you must hear before you die - not included (Purple Rain, 1999, Sign 'O' The Times)

Parade was NME's album of the year 1986 - now it's forgotten.

It's not underrated here, but underrated everywhere else.

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Reply #19 posted 03/15/16 3:28am

Bohemian67

avatar

thanks2joniandu said:

LOTUSFLOW3R

THE RAINBOW CHILDREN

HITNRUN PHASE 2

My choice too except TRC should be first.

-

I should look into Symbol again and create a decent playlist but it is quite a chore streamlining 3 cd's.

I've never raved about it like the org but think it's time I took some re-listens.

"Free URself, B the best that U can B, 3rd Apartment from the Sun, nothing left to fear" Prince Rogers Nelson - Forever in my Life -
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Reply #20 posted 03/15/16 4:44am

RJOrion

ChrisLacy1990 said:



RJOrion said:


For You

Interesting choice, RJOrion. Walk me through why you believe that FOR YOU doesn't get as much shine as the other albums in Prince's discography.



Alot of people start the Prince journey at Dirty Mind, and consider his first two albums somewhat as throwaways, only for the diehard fans and "completists"...some people even think "I Wanna Be Your Lover" is his debut single...great songs like "My Love Is Forever", "Crazy You", "Just As Long As We're Together", "Baby", "Im Yours" and "In Love", dont get the credit they deserve for being the masterpieces that they are...and even his second lp, even though IWBYL and Sexy Dancer and WYWTMSB were hits, that album is more complete than it gets credit for..."Its Gonna Be Lonely" was the prototype Prince ballad, but "Do Me Baby" always gets credit for that...
[Edited 3/15/16 4:54am]
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Reply #21 posted 03/15/16 7:11am

Empress

Personally, I love the Love Symbol album. It's one of my favs. The Rainbow Children is a beautiful album musically, but some of the the lyrics are terrible. I do love the guitar work though.

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Reply #22 posted 03/15/16 7:26am

ChrisLacy1990

RJOrion said:

ChrisLacy1990 said:

Interesting choice, RJOrion. Walk me through why you believe that FOR YOU doesn't get as much shine as the other albums in Prince's discography.

Alot of people start the Prince journey at Dirty Mind, and consider his first two albums somewhat as throwaways, only for the diehard fans and "completists"...some people even think "I Wanna Be Your Lover" is his debut single...great songs like "My Love Is Forever", "Crazy You", "Just As Long As We're Together", "Baby", "Im Yours" and "In Love", dont get the credit they deserve for being the masterpieces that they are...and even his second lp, even though IWBYL and Sexy Dancer and WYWTMSB were hits, that album is more complete than it gets credit for..."Its Gonna Be Lonely" was the prototype Prince ballad, but "Do Me Baby" always gets credit for that... [Edited 3/15/16 4:54am]

That's an excellent point. I'm 26 years old, and I didn't get hooked on Prince's music until I was 20, but I remember being fascinated by FOR YOU and PRINCE. The artwork alone is magnificent as is the music. I believe people tend to cite DIRTY MIND as "the first album" because of the sound change; going from disco/pop to new wave is quite a switch.

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Reply #23 posted 03/15/16 7:30am

ChrisLacy1990

Empress said:

Personally, I love the Love Symbol album. It's one of my favs. The Rainbow Children is a beautiful album musically, but some of the the lyrics are terrible. I do love the guitar work though.

I'm in the same boat with you on THE RAINBOW CHILDREN. As a Southern Baptist believer, I'm turned off by the Jehovah's Witness agenda that runs throughout the record; however, I plan to revisit it soon because I know Prince's projects have brilliance buried within it.

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Reply #24 posted 03/15/16 7:44am

ChrisLacy1990

Bohemian67 said:

thanks2joniandu said:

LOTUSFLOW3R

THE RAINBOW CHILDREN

HITNRUN PHASE 2

My choice too except TRC should be first.

-

I should look into Symbol again and create a decent playlist but it is quite a chore streamlining 3 cd's.

I've never raved about it like the org but think it's time I took some re-listens.


I recommend that you give my LOVE SYMBOL playlist a try:

1. Sexy MF
2. Love to the 9s
3. The Morning Papers
4. Blue Light

5. Sweet Baby
6. Damn U
7. 7
8. And God Created Woman
9. 3 Chains o' Gold

With this configuration, you will:

a. Start and end with the record with a bang; "Sexy MF" and "3 Chains o' Gold" are perfect as the opener/closer combo.

b. Appreciate the scope of musicianship; ranging from rock and pop to jazz and reggae.

c. See that "less is more" can be a good thing; the original album runs 75 minutes whereas my playlist runs around 40-45 minutes similar to how vinyl records were sequenced back in the day.

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Reply #25 posted 03/15/16 8:04am

MendesCity

avatar

Bohemian67 said:

thanks2joniandu said:

LOTUSFLOW3R

THE RAINBOW CHILDREN

HITNRUN PHASE 2

My choice too except TRC should be first.

-

I should look into Symbol again and create a decent playlist but it is quite a chore streamlining 3 cd's.

I've never raved about it like the org but think it's time I took some re-listens.

Def Lostusflowr - the last time a Prince album made my year-end top 10.

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Reply #26 posted 03/15/16 8:57am

ThePanther

avatar

I think this one is not so much 'underrated' as sort-of unfairly ignored:

.

Prince (1979) is, in fact, the album that made his career. To be frank, one reason it doesn't get as much retrospective critical attention is that it's still very 'black'/soul, and not yet very 'rock' (as the next one would be, which then got all the rock critics drooling). But this album and its singles put Prince into the big-time, and it would be three or four years before he matched its sales figures. Any album with 'I Wanna Be Your Lover', 'Why you Wanna Treat me So Bad?', and 'I Feel For You' can't not be great. In fact, this is really the album that created the 'Minneapolis Sound', although I guess it would find greater fruition later.

.

Besides, how can you not love a guy who dresses like this?:

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Reply #27 posted 03/15/16 9:33am

SPYZFAN1

I have to agree.."Prince" (1979) was my first musical introduction to him. "Soft And Wet" was never played on the radio in my area.."Lover" and "Sexy Dancer" were HUGE on the R&B stations back then and I remember seeing him on Bandstand and The Midnight Special...The big talk in school on Monday was; "DID YOU SEE HIM KISS HIS GUITAR PLAYER???!!!"..His look was a little shocking w/ the spandex, earring in the right ear, etc....................Anyway, I love the innocence and swag of "Prince".

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Reply #28 posted 03/15/16 10:26am

RJOrion

SPYZFAN1 said:

I have to agree.."Prince" (1979) was my first musical introduction to him. "Soft And Wet" was never played on the radio in my area.."Lover" and "Sexy Dancer" were HUGE on the R&B stations back then and I remember seeing him on Bandstand and The Midnight Special...The big talk in school on Monday was; "DID YOU SEE HIM KISS HIS GUITAR PLAYER???!!!"..His look was a little shocking w/ the spandex, earring in the right ear, etc.....Anyway, I love the innocence and swag of "Prince".



Did he actually kiss Dez though?...even when i watch the video now, Prince has his back turned when the alleged act occurs...im not so sure he's not just singing into Dez's mic at the same time Dez does...but from the TV camera angle i could see how people (including me) couldve thoght he kissed him...besides, back then, Prince had a more over the top feminine persona, so it wasnt farfetched to assume that...even in the "I Wanna Be Your Lover" promo video, Prince grabs Andre by the chest and pulls him in close, as he says, "i wanna b your...brotherrr"...i thought THEY was about to kiss...but Prince pulled back and sashayed over to Gayle, instead...good times
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Reply #29 posted 03/15/16 10:47am

SPYZFAN1

I'll have to dig the video out and watch it again. Yeah P was over the top back then, but it made people pay attention. I thought the same thing for the band promo video for "Lover"...good times indeed....I remember that band promo video was on You Tube for a few hours and it was quickly taken down...I think that was the start of the "purple police" removing his videos.

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