... I'm not sold. Ever since "When 2 R In Love" on TBA/Lovesexy, I always thought it was a missed opportunity — especially given how much great unheard music we've now had a glimpse of that he's kept on the shelves. Then he did it again with "FUNKNROLL" on AOA/PE. Now HITNRUN is going to include "This Could B Us" —again? Why not just release revamped/remixed/extended songs on maxi single albums? (I still want to hear the maxi single treatment of "P Control"...!)

At least I hope the next album comes with a digital booklet, more interesting album art. The cool graphic artists who get to work on his concert images should get a crack at the albums too.

I suppose When 2 R In Love is the exception as the release of the Black album was cancelled, so in effect it was an unreleased track when Lovesexy was released. It would have been criminal not to have used that track as it sits perfectly in Lovesexy. Naturally, at the time Prince would never had thought the Black album would have been released.

Prince didn't invent the concept of reworking a track to fit in the context of another album, many others have done it. For the last 10 years Ryuichi Sakamoto has probably released more albums filled with reworkings of old compositions than albums with original compositions and this is not out of laziness but out of a desire to reexplore past compositions under a different light.

W2RIL obviously didn't count as TBA was unreleased at the time but there's also been The Undertaker and U're Gonna C Me and The Dance and in all cases I really appreciated the new renditions, as they were entirely different renditions of the songs.

While I understand the fact that some fans would rather have an entirely new song instead, given the amount of unreleased tracks in the vault, I think the artistic logic behind the conception of a tracklist is based on esthetic considerations and escapes such notions: sometimes a thing makes sense to the artist and thinking "oh no I can't do that I've already released that song" would be as absurd as filling every album with 80 minutes of music just because a CD can countain 80 minutes of music when sometimes 45 minutes seems to be the "right length".

I think the complaint is even more absurd when talking about an artist who has released so many hundreds of original songs, it's not exactly like we're starving

[Edited 7/30/15 5:42am]

databank said:

Prince didn't invent the concept of reworking a track to fit in the context of another album, many others have done it. For the last 10 years Ryuichi Sakamoto has probably released more albums filled with reworkings of old compositions than albums with original compositions and this is not out of laziness but out of a desire to reexplore past compositions under a different light.

W2RIL obviously didn't count as TBA was unreleased at the time but there's also been The Undertaker and U're Gonna C Me and The Dance and in all cases I really appreciated the new renditions, as they were entirely different renditions of the songs.

While I understand the fact that some fans would rather have an entirely new song instead, given the amount of unreleased tracks in the vault, I think the artistic logic behind the conception of a tracklist is based on esthetic considerations and escapes such notions: sometimes a thing makes sense to the artist and thinking "oh no I can't do that I've already released that song" would be as absurd as filling every album with 80 minutes of music just because a CD can countain 80 minutes of music when sometimes 45 minutes seems to be the "right length".

I think the complaint is even more absurd when talking about an artist who has released so many hundreds of original songs, it's not exactly like we're starving

[Edited 7/30/15 5:42am]

Thats all well and good when you are talking about songs that could do with dusting off and being reworked because the artist has a better vision for them. But when the song is less than a year old, was released on the last album and is still shiny and new, it really doesnt make much sense to me. At least give the song a few years of life before reinventing it. Give it a chance to grow. And then, when it is more mature and has established its own identy (and the fans have had a chance to let the song grow old), then see what new things can be done with it.

This smacks of opportunism to me. He clearly had no interest in promoting AOA for whatever reasons but noticed that this song had some traction and so, on his next release which he does plan to promote better, he wants to give that song another go. Its probably just a big FU to WB, but adds very little value for us fans. If anything, he is just opening himself up to the possibility of an org backlash when it turns out the remake isnt as good as the (still very new and fresh sounding) AOA version.

Then again, maybe the next album is a compilation of the best songs from every album since TGE with a few new songs added (like Peach and Pope on the Hits) and TCBU is simply mentioned because..... well...... Prince's marketing machine needs a proper service.

NorthC said:

Another way of reworking a year old song that P feels he could improve is by... Wait for it... Playing it live! A full version of This Could Be Us would do wonders onstage.

Co-sign to this. He's actually turned me onto songs i'd totally dismissed (e.g. Northside, The Love We Make) by playing them live.

He's done this a few times recently - the Dance, U're Gonna C Me, Funknroll, now This Could B Us...

But then he DIDN'T put the track on 3121 on Lotusflower, even though it clearly belongs there and segues in to the end of the Lotus intro! crazy stuff.

Another odd thing he's taken to doing is having a throwback to previous album art for no apparent reason. Why did Planet Earth need to have all those '3121' icons in the background? Why did 20ten have a lotusflower on it?

I'm all for a bit of continuity, but if there's no apparent rhyme or reason to it, it just comes across as a bit naff and unbaked.

.

[Edited 7/31/15 5:57am]

Did he do this to several songs?
I mean, don't many artists do this?

reworked songs:

1. Feel U Up

2. Feel Good, Feel Better, Feel Wonderful

3. Shhhh! (reworked from the version Tevin cambell released)

4. The Most Beautifu Girl in the World (the TGE album version is different from all 7 of the versions on the maxi-single).

5. Several songs on Crystal ball (icluding the beloved "Goodlove") were reworked.

There are several more. I don't mind it so much so long as the overall album doesn't just retreat previous ones.

Reworkings of previously released songs is like him farting in our face, given his vast collection of unreleased material. Reworkings of older unreleased songs generally tend to be worse than their originals*. I think his songs are best served when they're fresh.

* With some exceptions, of course.

[Edited 7/31/15 7:27am]

Aside from the whole ordering it from his website then never receiving it debacle, my main beef with "Crystal Ball" was all the reworked songs. So much space spent on them which could have been filled with more unreleased tracks.

this has me thinking of Led Zeppelin. They have an album called "Houses of the Holy" but the song "houses of the Holy" is not on that album... it is on Physical Graffiti. But the ablum "Houses of the Holy" opens with a song called "The Song Remains the same" which is the name of another LZ album.

erik319 said:

He's done this a few times recently - the Dance, U're Gonna C Me, Funknroll, now This Could B Us...

But then he DIDN'T put the track on 3121 on Lotusflower, even though it clearly belongs there and segues in to the end of the Lotus intro! crazy stuff.

Another odd thing he's taken to doing is having a throwback to previous album art for no apparent reason. Why did Planet Earth need to have all those '3121' icons in the background? Why did 20ten have a lotusflower on it?

I'm all for a bit of continuity, but if there's no apparent rhyme or reason to it, it just comes across as a bit naff and unbaked.

wait, what? How's that then?

Blixical said:

Blixical said:

Did he do this to several songs?
I mean, don't many artists do this?

reworked songs:

1. Feel U Up

2. Feel Good, Feel Better, Feel Wonderful

3. Shhhh! (reworked from the version Tevin cambell released)

4. The Most Beautifu Girl in the World (the TGE album version is different from all 7 of the versions on the maxi-single).

5. Several songs on Crystal ball (icluding the beloved "Goodlove") were reworked.

There are several more. I don't mind it so much so long as the overall album doesn't just retreat previous ones.

"glam slam 91" which borrowed from several other songs... just not so much "Glam Slam" but the highly reworked B-side "Escape" and would later be reworked to be GETT OFF... which had the extra T as to avoid confusion between that and the B-side "Get Off" which was really a re-work of " "New Power Generation"

"Escape" also borrowed from "Rebirth Of The Flesh"

And "18 and over" was based on "Come"

what this makes me wonder is how many of the vault songs are actually unique songs and how many are just other versions of what we have heard?

I read some comments here that r clearly from a consumer's POV, ignoring the realities of creative process

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said:

I read some comments here that r clearly from a consumer's POV, ignoring the realities of creative process

There's only one person involved in the creative process (we all know Prince is a one man band), so how could it be otherwise? You're a consumer like the rest of us, data.

I'm a writer, I used to be a musician, I have worked most of my adult life with other artists in every possible discipline, most of my friends are creative people and even most of my ex GF's for that matter, so no I am not a "consumer", nor are any of the other orgers who are artists. I have had enough conversations with non-artists to know that non artists don't really know what's going on when a piece of art is being created (and they usually admit it and ask 1000 questions about it).

Note that I'm not saying artists are "better" or anything, but it's like when I meet IDK, a doctor or a cop or a researcher in quantum physics or a bank employee: I have to admit I don't have a fucking clue what the reality of their job is like.

[Edited 7/31/15 11:21am]

NorthC said:

And the reality is, Mr. Databank, that you don't have a clue as to what Prince's creative process is like, no more than the rest of us. Even his band members don't know what he puts on his albums! When it comes to Prince's music, you ARE a consumer, just like me and everybody else. The fact that you're a writer doesn't change that. Creativity is a very personal thing. I only know you from this forum, you only know me from this forum too, we only know Prince from his records, films and live shows, so how do we know what's going on in another person's creative mind? We don't! We don't know why Prince decided to put this same song on a new album- if he ever did! Because the album isn't out yet. [Edited 7/31/15 11:57am] [Edited 7/31/15 12:00pm]

While a chef might not know exactly why another chef made a decision regarding a dish or a menu, I'll trust a chef to speculate about it and understand the general pattern of that other chef's process of thoughts before I trust a cashier or a pharmacist to do it

[Edited 7/31/15 12:17pm]

NorthC said:

Okay, as long as you realize that you're speculating (just like everybody else here , whether truck drivers or carpenter's wives) then we're cool. [Edited 7/31/15 12:34pm]

Yes I'm speculating, all those self-covers could have been because P thought it would boost those albums' (or the next's) commercial potential as suggested above, but I doubt it, it's not like one was released as a single with a fancy video and made the Top 10. My take that P had a new idea with a song, recorded it and loved it and thought it would work well in the context of an album in the works at that time (better than any other unreleased song) isn't totally eccentric IMHO

It would be the logical pattern of thought for an artist is all, but hell yeah for all I know he made a bet with Andy Allo that he couldn't do better than the first version of This Could Be Us, or someone told him the original cut of The Dance was crap and that the song could be so much better with a more sophisticated arrangement or God knows what else could have happened

And I don't feel disrespected as a consumer by being offered a new interpretation of a track, I find it pretty cool in fact

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Blixical said:

Did he do this to several songs?
I mean, don't many artists do this?

reworked songs:

1. Feel U Up

2. Feel Good, Feel Better, Feel Wonderful

3. Shhhh! (reworked from the version Tevin cambell released)

4. The Most Beautifu Girl in the World (the TGE album version is different from all 7 of the versions on the maxi-single).

5. Several songs on Crystal ball (icluding the beloved "Goodlove") were reworked.

There are several more. I don't mind it so much so long as the overall album doesn't just retreat previous ones.

"glam slam 91" which borrowed from several other songs... just not so much "Glam Slam" but the highly reworked B-side "Escape" and would later be reworked to be GETT OFF... which had the extra T as to avoid confusion between that and the B-side "Get Off" which was really a re-work of " "New Power Generation"

"Escape" also borrowed from "Rebirth Of The Flesh"

And "18 and over" was based on "Come"

what this makes me wonder is how many of the vault songs are actually unique songs and how many are just other versions of what we have heard?

ideas evolve and morph

erik319 said:

He's done this a few times recently - the Dance, U're Gonna C Me, Funknroll, now This Could B Us...

But then he DIDN'T put the track on 3121 on Lotusflower, even though it clearly belongs there and segues in to the end of the Lotus intro! crazy stuff.

Another odd thing he's taken to doing is having a throwback to previous album art for no apparent reason. Why did Planet Earth need to have all those '3121' icons in the background? Why did 20ten have a lotusflower on it?

I'm all for a bit of continuity, but if there's no apparent rhyme or reason to it, it just comes across as a bit naff and unbaked.

IDK, we all know now that from the beginning songs, ideas and concepts that were tried out during the genesis of an album but didn't make the cut were revisited on a later record. The sessions for 3121, Milk & Honey, Lotusflow3r and Elixer seem to have been quite intertwinned with P picking up what he thought would work better here or there, and it's possible that some tracks that didn't make Mplsound ended on 20ten, and I don't see any harm in acknowledging the fact though a a few hints

jaawwnn said:

When 2R In Love actually appeared on one of the Batman Maxi-singles too (Scandalous Sex Suite), so it's got ties to 3 different (sequential) albums.

.

Aside from FNR on AOA/PlectrumElectrum, he recently had U're Gonna C Me on MPLSound.

.

The Dance from NPGMC and also 3121.