thedance said:

Rimshottbob said:

Yes it is....

it's as much about intent as outright lyric-writing.

Unless you're psychic (and nobody is) you don't know the writers intent. You know the lyrics they wrote and you're interpreting the them.

Christianity is implied in the song, but the underlying message is "ask yourself the questions and if you believe in nothing else, believe in love". At no point does the writer ask or tell you to believe anything.

is nonsense? Writing a song with some ambiguity, that doesn't come from an assured place of arrogance is nonsense? Have you heard, like, ANY songs other than What If? THere's a word for that kind of writing: propaganda.

When a man sings about his love for a woman, he doesn't compliment her friend in the same song. (outside of Mpls). Its the same for any subject. People don't sing passionately about one thing while acknowledging a different thing might be the truth.

The vast majority of songwriting - at least GOOD songwriting - is born out of ambuguity, suggestion, nuance, a questioning nature, perhaps shot through with confidence or desire to be right, but rarely cemented in that....

If that is what you really think, then..... well, wow.

[Edited 7/3/15 0:16am]

Prince has RARELY been ambiguous about which god he was talking about. His entire back catalog is littered with Christian references.

KingSausage said:

These lines are super preachy and self-righteous;

What if you dig Way down deeper Than your Simple-minded friends Fuck that. And given that they're sung by Hannah, the only digging going on should be someone trying to bury this shit song hundreds of feet underground.

First - It's a question. By definition it's not preaching, it's asking. It's not telling you to believe something.

Second - You're taking it completely out of context. The full line is about soul searching and not being afraid to ask yourself the questions others might not. At no point in this song does the writer imply Christianity is the only way.

How do you feel about the likes of Controversy where he literally put the lords prayer into the song? Thats ok because it was subversive - trying to sneak it into nightclubs. But a song song that says "dont be afraid to ask the questions, and if you believe in nothing else belive in love" - thats preachy and self rightious?

NorthC said:

thedance said:

I wonder why you guys dislike it:



this song is "What if God was one Of Us" part 2...

I suggest listening to Joan Osborne again. Her song has nothing of the "I know it all" attitude that What If has.

She mentions Heaven and Jesus the saints and all the prophets. If seeing ment that then you would have to believe (like her).

The whole concept of that song is based on the "what if YOU're wrong" line which means that the writer thinks:"I KNOW I'm right.

Name a song in the past thousand years where the writer doesn't think they're right. Again... the question asked 3 times in this song is "What if it's love"

The Joan Osborne song, at least to my ears, is saying: what if religion did NOT have all the answers? What if God was just another face in the crowd and only the Pope in Rome cared about him?(And even that isn't certain.) [Edited 7/3/15 8:50am]

Then why did she sing about the Pope in Rome, and not another temple in another country. Why are the Pope and Jesus getting name-checked? She seems to know the god shes talking about is a Christian god.

Noodled24 said:

KingSausage said:

These lines are super preachy and self-righteous; What if you dig Way down deeper Than your Simple-minded friends Fuck that. And given that they're sung by Hannah, the only digging going on should be someone trying to bury this shit song hundreds of feet underground.

BRAVO!

[Edited 7/3/15 16:32pm]

lezama said:

terrig said:

THIS. The lyrics are the equivalent of a 12 year old girls hello kitty notebook.

But what if you're wrong?

God forgives lololol

NorthC said:

That's true! The discussion is more entertaining than the song!

KingSausage said:

Noodled24 said:

First - It's a question. By definition it's not preaching, it's asking. It's not telling you to believe something.

Second - You're taking it completely out of context. The full line is about soul searching and not being afraid to ask yourself the questions others might not. At no point in this song does the writer imply Christianity is the only way.

How do you feel about the likes of Controversy where he literally put the lords prayer into the song? Thats ok because it was subversive - trying to sneak it into nightclubs. But a song song that says "dont be afraid to ask the questions, and if you believe in nothing else belive in love" - thats preachy and self rightious?

Yes.

Well there you have it. I was right.

NorthC said:

^Talk about self-righteous. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

It was a good track.

Yall acting like Prince wrote the song himself though lol. he did a great job

HAve to admit, I didn't really care for it.

bigd74 said:

I don't mind it, and it's replaced the utter shite of stopthistrain in my Plectrum playlist

It's very close but I actually thinkg Stopthistrain is slightly less bad. Hard to remember though as I haven't listened to it for a very long time.

KingSausage said:

NorthC said:

That's true! The discussion is more entertaining than the song!

I'd rather read my bullshit posts a hundred times than listen to that travesty again.

I got to 73 times reading then I had to stop and listen to What If. Sorry Sausauge.

Noodled24 said:

Rimshottbob said:

Yes it is....

it's as much about intent as outright lyric-writing.

Unless you're psychic (and nobody is) you don't know the writers intent. You know the lyrics they wrote and you're interpreting the them.

Christianity is implied in the song, but the underlying message is "ask yourself the questions and if you believe in nothing else, believe in love". At no point does the writer ask or tell you to believe anything.

When a man sings about his love for a woman, he doesn't compliment her friend in the same song. (outside of Mpls). Its the same for any subject. People don't sing passionately about one thing while acknowledging a different thing might be the truth.

The vast majority of songwriting - at least GOOD songwriting - is born out of ambuguity, suggestion, nuance, a questioning nature, perhaps shot through with confidence or desire to be right, but rarely cemented in that....

If that is what you really think, then..... well, wow.

[Edited 7/3/15 0:16am]

Prince has RARELY been ambiguous about which god he was talking about. His entire back catalog is littered with Christian references.

Yeah, nothing of what you're saying here makes any sense. The world (and the art of music and songwriting) is nowhere near as black and white or simplistic as you're making out.... but... well, I could restate all my points, as you haven't really addressed any of them with any insight, but you may as well just re-read my initial post... we're clearly not reading from the same hymn sheet...

The song is utterly self-righteous, I'm struggling to see how anyone could see it otherwise. That'a enough to render it a piece of junk for me. Interestingly, I don't feel this way at all about The Rainbow Children (his best album of the new millennium, for me, by some distance)... because in that record he channels his opinions into a mythic environment, rather than just pointing the finger at the listener and basically laughing at them for not being as 'smart' or 'enlightened' as him.

Anyway, I've said enough on this. As before, if your world-view really is as narrow and obtuse as you're making out in your responses, then there's nothing I can post here that will change that.

Ah well, let's move on...

Rimshottbob said:

Noodled24 said:

Prince has RARELY been ambiguous about which god he was talking about. His entire back catalog is littered with Christian references.

Yeah, nothing of what you're saying here makes any sense. The world (and the art of music and songwriting) is nowhere near as black and white or simplistic as you're making out.... but... well, I could restate all my points, as you haven't really addressed any of them with any insight, but you may as well just re-read my initial post... we're clearly not reading from the same hymn sheet...

You didn't really make any points. Other than when you claimed to have done a survey of all the songs and decided the good ones fell within the critera you defined.

The song is utterly self-righteous, I'm struggling to see how anyone could see it otherwise.

Prove it. Perhaps by quoting the self rightious lyrics? Instead you went on a rant about a completely different album.

That'a enough to render it a piece of junk for me. Interestingly, I don't feel this way at all about The Rainbow Children (his best album of the new millennium, for me, by some distance)... because in that record he channels his opinions into a mythic environment, rather than just pointing the finger at the listener and basically laughing at them for not being as 'smart' or 'enlightened' as him.

Which lyric in "What if" points a finger?

Anyway, I've said enough on this. As before, if your world-view really is as narrow and obtuse as you're making out in your responses, then there's nothing I can post here that will change that.

Ah well, let's move on...

You have no idea what my world view is. Unless you think you know my world view based on a few comments about a song? But that can't be true because that'd make you a complete moron. I refuse to believe thats true. Despite what others may say.

I also get the self-righteous feeling from What If. The whole of it just feels like it's written from the point of view of somebody who knows that they're right. It's not purely in the lyrics, it's the package of the song and the emotion of the music and lyrics together.

The verses are sung more harshly and you can almost hear them wagging their finger at you as they are singing. Asking what if you're right and it's all nonsense.

Then for the choruses, the music builds up, everything goes more jolly and the whole vibe changes to one of triumph and joy as they are asking, what if you're wrong and it's super awesome and wonderful.

I had a google and it seems like the original was written by someone known as a christian musician, so that also solidifies that it's coming from someone who knows they're right.

[Edited 7/6/15 6:54am]

It died, and nothing happened, ironically. It was wrong.

[Edited 7/6/15 6:50am]

TheEnglishGent said:

I also get the self-righteous feeling from What If. The whole of it just feels like it's written from the point of view of somebody who knows that they're right. It's not purely in the lyrics, it's the package of the song and the emotion of the music and lyrics together.

The bit in bold. I understand where you're coming from. But "getting a self-righteous feeling" Is a very different phrase to "the lyrics are so self-righteous" because the lyrics aren't.

If I was an Apple Fan boy (and I'm not, but if I was) and you said "What if you're wrong, what if it's Android" That's not preachy or self-rightious.

The verses are sung more harshly and you can almost hear them wagging their finger at you as they are singing. Asking what if you're right and it's all nonsense.

That's fine but be aware you're still projecting the wagging finger, because it's not in the lyrics.

Then for the choruses, the music builds up, everything goes more jolly and the whole vibe changes to one of triumph and joy as they are asking, what if you're wrong and it's super awesome and wonderful.

It doesn't strike me as triumphant or joyous music... it gets a bit more sing-a-longy like most choruses but - it's not Lovesexy for example. Where he sings about this feeling thats so good in every single way, so good he wants it morning noon and night of everyday. "Which feeling is that?" I hear you ask; "It's the feeling you get when you fall in love, not with a girl or boy but with the heavens above". Back then Prince didn't just love god, he wanted to tie god up and do kinky shit.

I had a google and it seems like the original was written by someone known as a christian musician, so that also solidifies that it's coming from someone who knows they're right.

Thats correct. As far as Prince goes he has always known he was right hasn't he? Nobody was listening to "Controversy" wondering if Prince was a Muslim were they?

If you're not religious or spiritual in any way. Here's another way to look at it. Would Coca-Cola produce an advert saying "Pepsi might be better"? Would Apple release an Android device?. If you believe in your product (or religion; which is arguably still a product) you dont sing the joys of the competition. Thats mental, and a song just listing things you don't believe is boring.

I have trouble reconciling the apparent display of incredulity fans have for the religious references in this song. Yet "Lovesexy" is repeatedly cited as a fan favorite album... "God" is one of the best b-sides. His entire catalog is littered with vague and blatant references to Christianity.

If you were making a list of Preachy Prince songs, "What if" wouldn't even make the top 20.

Also just to be clear. I don't particularly care for the song either, it holds me till the end of the 1st verse. Then I'm done. I just didn't care for the way it was being represented and decided it had merit for starting a discussion.

SchlomoThaHomo said:

It died, and nothing happened, ironically. It was wrong.

[Edited 7/6/15 6:50am]

That made me do a lol. I have decided to convey this to you both in writing, and via emoticon as represented thusly:

Noodled24 said:

Noodled24 said:

SchlomoThaHomo said:

It died, and nothing happened, ironically. It was wrong.

[Edited 7/6/15 6:50am]

That made me do a lol. I have decided to convey this to you both in writing, and via emoticon as represented thusly:

How's about this one:

Noodled24 said: