^ Thats all WB imo.

Prince hasn't given them much so what else can they do but up the songs.

I do not find those official audio streams. Do u have to be a paying member to access them?

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It is my deep belief that Prince needs to have an official YT channel with ALL the old music videos (including side projects) in HD. His banning them on YT is quite pointless in the sense they ARE all online anyway, except in very low quality from old TV recordings. An official channel would give instant access to this marvelous archive in hi def and be an useful promo tool. Many artists have uploaded their entire video catalogue on their own YT channel and I don't see how sales of both albums and concert tickets could NOT benefit from this.

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In 2009 Prince had put many of his back video catalogue on a paying site (Lotusflow3r.com) and last year he sold several music videos on his 3EG online shop. I believe the apprach is nonsensical, though, for promo videos, as opposed to recordings, have never been made to be sold in the first place (save of course compiled on VHS/DVD, but that was a secondary purpose), it's actually in the name "promo video": they were made to PROMOTE the records on TV channels then online. One cannot sell their promotional tools, it's counterproductive. I'm quite sure if the Screwdriver or Live Out Loud vids had been put on YT for free, Prince would have sold more audio downloads of both songs.

Give it 50 or 60 years, there will be a deluge of Prince stuff on youtube.

leadline said:

Give it 50 or 60 years, there will be a deluge of Prince stuff on youtube.

God only knows what the world, the internet and post-human beings will look like in 60 years

databank said:

leadline said:

Give it 50 or 60 years, there will be a deluge of Prince stuff on youtube.

God only knows what the world, the internet and post-human beings will look like in 60 years

True, we could all just have the Prince microchip in our necks by that time, left blink play, right blink, stop. However, we will all probably still be bitchin about why he wont release The Vault microchip!

Noodled24 said:

2) Prince makes no real money from it. Not immediately anyway.

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As opposed to what? How is having hundreds, thousands of unseen videos in his vault making him money?

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3) Once you put things on the line, they have no re-sale. No compilation DVDs. Your videos are just out there for free, forever. So if he needed a quick easy million dollars he could release a music video set, get paid for old material. If all that content is on Youtube... who'd buy it?

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Plenty of people buy stuff that's available online. And again: he ain't selling it now anyway.

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4) New content takes time and money, there would be no return on his investment in any new videos unless they were made very cheaply.

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Again: right now he's storing them in his vault. How's that makign him money?

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5) The only reward for uploading your content: A number of likes, and a bitchload of bitchy comments from strangers.

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There's also exposure, etc. Visibility => more potential interested people.

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6) Regardless of what gets uploaded fans will never be happy. Tech quality aside - if he uploads a clip it should be a song, if it's a song it should be a show, if it's a show it should have been a different show.

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Nonsensical argument. Fans have had plenty of valid complaints over the years.

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Also - some of the older videos and concerts it'd be easy for the media to rip him to bits. If he ever fell out of favour. Blurred Lines was possibly the biggest hit that ended someones career. It might be wise not to open the vault up completely.

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Oh for crying out loud...

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Wthin hours he could upload tens of hours of footage, the legendary aftershows, videos we never knew about... but then it's not in the bank. All the unreleased stuff is his real legacy.

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No, your legacy is the stuff people know about. All that Vault shit is now worth a FRACTION of what it once was. He could and should have sold it multiple times in the past 20+ years, repackaged it, etc.

Noodled24 said:

I agree - obviously. Who wouldn't. It just makes sense. However, playing devils advocate:

Reasons not to be on Youtube:

1) Extra work. Someone has to curate the channel. Has to dig up decent quality footage from the vault and cut it, edit it. Image quality and audio will be poor due to the tech available at the time. VHS looks so dated now.

2) Prince makes no real money from it. Not immediately anyway.

3) Once you put things on the line, they have no re-sale. No compilation DVDs. Your videos are just out there for free, forever. So if he needed a quick easy million dollars he could release a music video set, get paid for old material. If all that content is on Youtube... who'd buy it?

Maybe not a great amount of money but its still money that otherwise he woudlnt be making. Youtube royalties are worth 10x more than Spotify or other streaming service, still pennies but better than nothing.

BartVanHemelen said:

Noodled24 said:

2) Prince makes no real money from it. Not immediately anyway.

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As opposed to what? How is having hundreds, thousands of unseen videos in his vault making him money?

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They're not. But they're also not "out there" to be seen or critiqued. For a couple of hundred money from youtube it's not worth the time of effort to put them up there. Not when 10 or so can be thrown on a DVD and released.

Oh for crying out loud...

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Wthin hours he could upload tens of hours of footage, the legendary aftershows, videos we never knew about... but then it's not in the bank. All the unreleased stuff is his real legacy.

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No, your legacy is the stuff people know about. All that Vault shit is now worth a FRACTION of what it once was. He could and should have sold it multiple times in the past 20+ years, repackaged it, etc.

No his legacy is what he leaves behind. Or what he'll sell when he can't tour anymore. Yes his fans are dying off figuratively and literally. HOWEVER Prince has videos of him jamming with Ron Wood, Sting, Miles... There are live shows on tape that would still be big news in the music world.

We're talking youtube here mate, not songs in the vault VIDEOS. Everything in the Vault is his pension/retirement. If he'd sold it all multiple times over the past 20 years he'd have spent all the money and be trying to flog "The Slaughterhouse Re-mastered"

CharismaDove said:

Completely agreed. He'd be much bigger.

Would he? Much bigger? Do you look for acts on youtube you have neither any knowledge of or any particular interest in? I know I don't, not really.

Marrk said:

Do you look for acts on youtube you have neither any knowledge of or any particular interest in?

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Yup. Wish I'd had it when I was young, would have heard a ton of music much sooner.

BartVanHemelen said:

Marrk said:

Do you look for acts on youtube you have neither any knowledge of or any particular interest in?

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Yup. Wish I'd had it when I was young, would have heard a ton of music much sooner.

Same here, I've discovered tons of stuff thanks to YT

It's about control. We know Prince is a bit of a control freak.

Besides that, I think Prince wants to distance his new self from his younger more vulger side. Wants to distance himself from past aquaintance such as band mates in any way possible. Hiding it all or making it more difficult to find facilitates it.

And again, it's not like he loses any money from it. I'll use Bart's example against him; if he can't make money from it with it hidden in a vault, why is it better not to make any money from it with others exploiting it instead? Is it better if someone else exploits you without compensation?

Lastly, this whole Youtube thing is only momentary blip, it is short sighted to put so much importance on one quickly evolving medium and one moment it time. Prince's work is not going anywhere and people are not going anywhere, new music lovers are born every day, they'll easily find it if they want it. It's not like Prince will be a any less obscure than anyone from his own generation or previous. If we know who Van Halen is, we know who Led Zepelin is. If we know who the Kinks are, we know who the Rolling Stones are. If we know who Al Green and James Brown, Madonna and Michael Jackson are, we'll know who Prince is. Everything is interelated. For Prince to ever really become obscure, so will everybody else.

....and youtube will not be the determining factor.

[Edited 11/21/14 12:16pm]

BartVanHemelen said:

There's also exposure, etc. Visibility => more potential interested people.

This is true to an extent. But how many views are the AOA vids getting? Not much. Granted over time after interviews/TV apperances people may then seek out YouTube videos. But Prince isn't going to "go viral" any time soon. So there is an argument that any uploads would only have a limited reach anyway.

Prince is all about the instant gratification (despite what he says) when he does something he wants an instant (positive) response he's not a slow burn kind of guy.

Nonsensical argument. Fans have had plenty of valid complaints over the years.

I guess there are a few shows that are almost universal classics. But if they're already in proshot quality boots then they're already out there. New fans are unlikely to watch a 2 hour concert in full.


Me personally I think it's insane there isn't at least a TV apperance collection on YouTube. But I can completely see why it was never fully embraced in the ways fans talk of. I think the 3EG channel was pretty well utilized with songs from different cities.

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

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Yup. Wish I'd had it when I was young, would have heard a ton of music much sooner.

Same here, I've discovered tons of stuff thanks to YT

So have I. I've not gone out and bought anything off the back of it though. It's on youtube. But then again i buy no physical product these days for any entertainment, Music, films, games etc

I don't see how others using YT like me are going to make Prince any bigger. His 'views' totals on most YT videos are pretty poor anyway.

[Edited 11/21/14 17:19pm]

Prince needs to just get naked, paint himself yellow, and call himself banana-man...then post it on youtube. He would get more youtube hits, then all of his new videos combined!

[Edited 11/21/14 21:00pm]

Scarfo said:

BartVanHemelen said:

How is having hundreds, thousands of unseen videos in his vault making him money? Again, right now, he's storing them in the vault. How is that making him mone? No, your legacy is the stuff people know about. All that Vault shit is now worth a FRACTION of what it once was. He could and should have sold it multiple times in the past 20+ years, repackaged it, etc.

*

First, allow me to begin by stating that even though I own most video and audio bootlegs, especially live video and audio, I would love the opportunity to purchase this same material legally. And, like most people, I have what I believe is the "best" method or strategy to make this work available in a way that will satisfy fans and make Prince a boatload of money. Now, with that said, allow me to disagree.

*

The point that you and others seem to be missing is that Prince seems to be content with the fact that unless he's able to get the "over the top" or "historic" multi-million dollar deal that he desires then he'd rather get no money if he can't get the price that he has in his batshit crazy mind. So, if Prince does not give a shit about how this decisions are impacting his legacy, why should we? It's his legacy to do with what he wants. It's not my legacy so who am I to tell him what to do with his legacy. For me, accepting years ago that Prince is batshit crazy made this topic a non-issue for me. Yes, I'm glad that I have tons of illegal stuff. Yes, I enjoy it, especially the live video and audio stuff as I think the bootleg studio stuff is extremely overrated. But, if Prince doesn't want to embrace YouTube in a manner that will allow him to obtain more fans, then why should we care? Additionally, I work with young people, and the truth is that since the mid-90s when Prince was accessible he had already stopped moving the needle with young people and "new fans". Sure, a lot of it has to do with Prince refusing to "play the industry" game and act more normal, but, again, Prince is batshit crazy so I don't think he has it in him to "play the industry" game and act more normal. So, when Alan Leeds old bitter ass was saying, for the thousand time to anyone who would listen to his tired ass, that Prince needs to wear a t-shirt and jeans and make normal music, that caused me to question if Leeds really knew/understood the man with whom he had worked for so many years, or is Leeds like so many other Prince fans that can only see that slice of the Prince pie-chart that they like and is unable to see/fathom the entire pie-chart with all of its batshit crazy slices.

*

The truth that so many people seem to be unable to accept is that Prince may just be one of the genius types that can only be a niche artist. They keep forgetting that before Purple Rain, Dirty Mind and Controversy, both deemed as Prince essentials, were not certified gold albums because Prince was, again, a niche artist with a small, cult-like following. In fact, during the Purple Rain success, I remember one reviewer writing that he was amazed that more people could not see through the smoke and mirrors that Purple Rain is just a feeble attempt of a minor non-pop artist to clean himself up to be more popular. While I disagreed then and now with that review, I do wonder what Prince's career would have been had Purple Rain not been a success? How many people would be clamoring for Prince to make himself more accessible to a wider public? And, to be honest, maybe having been a Prince fan since 1979, I like it more when Prince is an underground artist because I don't have to be bothered by dumbass people who want to discuss or ask me questions, such as "Why Prince got to wear that?" or "Why is he doing this or that?" And, I hate most attending Prince concerts with casual fans who come with a song list and shout the list throughout the entire performance. Thus, one of the main things that I most love about Prince is that unlike Michael Jackson, who was a great talent, Prince did not fall victim to the need to repeat the success of Purple Rain so that all of his following work was merely a repeat of Purple Rain in the way that most of Jackson's work following Thriller was merely a repeat of that style of music. If Around the World in a Day tells us anything, it is that Prince has always been more concerned about obtaining success by his own terms, and if he can't obtain that success by his own terms, then he's not interested in gaining it. (Prince just does not want to be successful; he wants to be successful by his own terms, said the teenager who refused to accept Earth, Wind, and Fire founder and primary songwriter and producer Maurice White as the executive producer for his first album. His refusal to use White and his opting to release "If I Was your Girlfriend" as the second single from Sign "O" the Times should be all the information you need to understand Prince's current position with YouTube.) So, yes, I would like more access to unreleased live video and audio, but unless Prince can do this on his own terms, it does not seem that it will happen. And, I'm cool with this because this is who he is. He is the batshit crazy dude who has still been able to provide music that I like.

*

The bottom line is that you can't make someone be what they don't want to be. Trying to make somebody be what you want him to be will only drive your ass crazy as evident by all these "what Prince should do" threads or "Prince hasn't moved me in years but rather than find somebody who moves me I'm just going to stay here and bitch about it" threads. Prince should live his life how he wants, and I should enjoy what I can from his artistry and ignore the rest. Does Prince have an over-inflated notion of what his current work and back catalog are worth? Probably. But, if he's content with an "all or nothing" stance, why should I care because I really don't want to be at a Prince concert next to 2 Chain fans or fans of the latest one-dimensional rock band. Thirty-six years after his first album and thirty years after his biggest selling album, Prince released two number one charting albums, AOA and PlecElec. And, since 2004, Prince has released four number one charting albums, when we include Musicology (2004) and 3121 (2006). And, he has done all of this by not embracing YouTube and by his own terms. There are people who would kill for a third of Prince's success, and they are YouTube whores. Yet, Prince continues to find "success" and "contentment" living by his own terms. Who can be mad at that? Sure, we can all feel differently about his terms or the quality of his art. But, for you people who have spent the pass fourteen years bemoaning and screaming that Prince has lost it and he can't write good songs anymore, do you really think that embracing YouTube will change that? Prince is a talented artist whose artistic pie chart or diversity is too much or too expansive for most folks who want one-dimensional art from an one-dimensional artist. I don't think embracing YouTube will change this. In fact, my fear of Prince embracing YouTube is that I'll be forced to have discussions about Prince with people who think that Love and Hip Hop is quality entertainment and that Wendy Williams is intellectual force.

I just think putting his entire past catalogue of promo videos on YT would

1/ make the fans happy

2/ allow a younger, internet-fed audience to discover his past catalogue

3/ possibly boost sales of either records and/or concert tickets

4/ be a reasonable thing to do anyway

Large amounts of live shows and videos on the Japanese site Youku

cookypuss said:

Large amounts of live shows and videos on the Japanese site Youku

You mean Chinese site. I wouldn't want to test Japanese copyright laws by uploading the kind of content you can find on Youku.

airth said:

cookypuss said:

Large amounts of live shows and videos on the Japanese site Youku

You mean Chinese site. I wouldn't want to test Japanese copyright laws by uploading the kind of content you can find on Youku.

Lol, I guess it could be Chinese. I'm no linguistics expert, haha. Knew someone would pick me up on that. Good content tho

Chinese can be quite agressive with copyright infrigement, though, using P2P's is big trouble there and the days when u could find shops filled with pirate CD's and VCD's r long gone, they're trying to please the US by doing that so they can be left alone with human rights violations.

I think it's extremely irresponsible to indicate alternate sources for videos like that publicly on a thread because:

1/ It's against forum rules and can get the Org in trouble.

2/ Videos can be subject to copyright violation complaints and deleted as a consequence, so we can't enjoy 'em no more.

3/ The people posting vids can potentially end-up being in trouble.

There are some places where videos can bee seen, included the site mentioned above, but if we're to keep enjoying them there's no need to attract 's legal team attention, it's enough to say they do exist then either people can use Google or communicate privately about them.

Peace

rusty1 said:

Every historic artist,for the most part,

The man said: the internet is dead.

Which part of that didn't you understand?

databank said:

Chinese can be quite agressive with copyright infrigement, though, using P2P's is big trouble there and the days when u could find shops filled with pirate CD's and VCD's r long gone, they're trying to please the US by doing that so they can be left alone with human rights violations.

I think it's extremely irresponsible to indicate alternate sources for videos like that publicly on a thread because:

1/ It's against forum rules and can get the Org in trouble.

2/ Videos can be subject to copyright violation complaints and deleted as a consequence, so we can't enjoy 'em no more.

3/ The people posting vids can potentially end-up being in trouble.

There are some places where videos can bee seen, included the site mentioned above, but if we're to keep enjoying them there's no need to attract 's legal team attention, it's enough to say they do exist then either people can use Google or communicate privately about them.

Peace

Fair enough. I didn't mean any harm. Thanks for setting me straight

BartVanHemelen said:

Marrk said:

Do you look for acts on youtube you have neither any knowledge of or any particular interest in?

.

Yup. Wish I'd had it when I was young, would have heard a ton of music much sooner.

I'll admit I Shazam songs I hear in various places and I often follow through and search for artists on YouTube. However I think I'm in the minority there.

I've never randomly found something I wasn't looking for though. YouTube needs users to be prompted to look for something (generally speaking). Be it a TV performance, award show appearance etc - then people will use YouTube. Putting a few videos on YouTube isn't going to suddenly see Prince selling a million copies of his new album.

The 3EG channel is a good example. There were some awesome performances posted on there. Yet the album is his worst selling to date.

cookypuss said:

Large amounts of live shows and videos on the Japanese site Youku

Yes, I just watched the 2004 LA Musicology concert. A pretty sad affair...

And of course he plays the whole Purple Rain album minus Computer Blue. I'm sure he would have released that deluxe PR boxset back then!

Prince should...

Are you his manager?

If not, please become his manager.

We do not need hese should-stories.

cookypuss said:

databank said:

Chinese can be quite agressive with copyright infrigement, though, using P2P's is big trouble there and the days when u could find shops filled with pirate CD's and VCD's r long gone, they're trying to please the US by doing that so they can be left alone with human rights violations.

I think it's extremely irresponsible to indicate alternate sources for videos like that publicly on a thread because:

1/ It's against forum rules and can get the Org in trouble.

2/ Videos can be subject to copyright violation complaints and deleted as a consequence, so we can't enjoy 'em no more.

3/ The people posting vids can potentially end-up being in trouble.

There are some places where videos can bee seen, included the site mentioned above, but if we're to keep enjoying them there's no need to attract 's legal team attention, it's enough to say they do exist then either people can use Google or communicate privately about them.

Peace

Fair enough. I didn't mean any harm. Thanks for setting me straight

It's cool, i'm just trying to protect what little is left out there from obliteration is all