Hey guys.

So, as the title suggests, has anyone here ever attempted to remaster Prince's 80's albums by themselves?

One of my hobbies is sound production and I frequently like to mess about on Cubase when I'm bored. Anyway, since the powers that be clearly can't be arsed to do it himself, I've decided to (attempt) self remaster of the '80s albums.

I'm not a professional sound engineer or anything, I've just been uploading some SOTT tracks (from a WAV file) onto Cubase and then playing with the EQ. Nothing advanced, but even at that, I thought some of things I mixed sounded better than the CD version.

So, back to the question, have any of you guys, any sound engineers or producers out there, ever tried this? If so, any hints, tips or cheat codes you have to offer would be really helpful and much appreciated.

Phantom out... ,

http://prince.org/msg/7/385893

PhantomOfSolace said:

Hey guys.

So, as the title suggests, has anyone here ever attempted to remaster Prince's 80's albums by themselves?

One of my hobbies is sound production and I frequently like to mess about on Cubase when I'm bored. Anyway, since the powers that be clearly can't be arsed to do it himself, I've decided to (attempt) self remaster of the '80s albums.

I'm not a professional sound engineer or anything, I've just been uploading some SOTT tracks (from a WAV file) onto Cubase and then playing with the EQ. Nothing advanced, but even at that, I thought some of things I mixed sounded better than the CD version.

So, back to the question, have any of you guys, any sound engineers or producers out there, ever tried this? If so, any hints, tips or cheat codes you have to offer would be really helpful and much appreciated.

Phantom out... ,

Please don't share them online. Original works of art being tempered by fans and slowly replacing the originals are a true risk of the digital revolution, which I otherwise totally embrace.

I don't mind fan edits or remixes of Prince songs as long as they are labeled as such. What annoys the shit out of me are fan contribution to songs. The last thing I want to hear is some guitar hero playing along to Alphabet Street or Strange But True and passing that off as a new mix. Something like The Dawn 4.1 works because it is pieced together from official and unofficial Prince sources. It's a reimagining. When keyboard parts or a guitar solo is added to a song (like Graycap23 mentioned in the thread dj Thunderfunk linked to), a line is crossed. That's like sneaking into a museum and adding stick figures to Picasso's Guernica.

AhPook said:

I don't mind fan edits or remixes of Prince songs as long as they are labeled as such. What annoys the shit out of me are fan contribution to songs. The last thing I want to hear is some guitar hero playing along to Alphabet Street or Strange But True and passing that off as a new mix. Something like The Dawn 4.1 works because it is pieced together from official and unofficial Prince sources. It's a reimagining. When keyboard parts or a guitar solo is added to a song (like Graycap23 mentioned in the thread dj Thunderfunk linked to), a line is crossed. That's like sneaking into a museum and adding stick figures to Picasso's Guernica.

What u don't understand is that sometimes:

1. It gets "de-labeled": people change files names and post the shit on P2P's and "Jughead (ErnestSewellMix)" becomes plain "Jughead" and people get that and assume it's the original album version, period.

2. Most people don't have a bloody clue. Unless u're a hardcore Prince fan u're gonna download "Jughead (ErnestSewellMix)" and assume it's an official mix of the track.

It already happened actually, even among fans. Quite a number of times I've read people here writing "The Dawn 4.1 allows us to see what the Prince masterpiece would have been if released" and when I come and say "huh, dudes, it's fanmade, and the guy who made it tempered with the tracks and absolutely did the tracklist himself, and he said that he did it so no one gets confused, the whole project makes no sense because some songs here were recorded 2 or 3 years after The Dawn was supposed to have been compiled", some other dudes shout at me "shut the fuck up, it's Boris' FACTS against your OPINION and this album is exacltly how Prince intended it to be!" Other times I've read some "Ultimixes" being labeled as official by fans.

And how many people do u think now own 4DF's version of Corporate World and assume it's the album the way it was supposed to be? Sure 4DF were VERY clear in the fact that they'd messed with "My Summertime Thang", but because it's got the best sound quality it's now the most commonly found version, and if u go and download it on a P2P maybe the booklet with 4DF's explaination isn't with the files anymore, or maybe u just won't ever read it. I can assure you that in a few years if not already, most of the people who have Corporate World will have the fucked up version, most of them won't even know it's fucked up in the first place, and the original version won't be anywhare to be found online anymore.

George goddamn Lucas isn't even allowed to temper with his OWN movies and y'all want fans to mess with works of art and release them online. No no no, this is soooooooooooo wrong

AhPook said:

Meh!

Stupid people will be wrong, people who do their research will know what's up. This is the way it's always been. Only difference now, is there are a lot more stupid people...

djThunderfunk said:

Meh!

Stupid people will be wrong, people who do their research will know what's up. This is the way it's always been. Only difference now, is there are a lot more stupid people...

There certainly aren't more stupid or uneducated people than ever before, but the point is NEVER to say "oh, no big deal, the 1% educated people will get it and let's not care about the 99% clueless". The 99% clueless are what matters in that case. If I add brushes to Guernica or edit down James Joyce's Ulysses to make a shorter, easier to read novel, and if 99% believe that these are the genuine versions, what difference does it make that 1% knows the truth? Technically the fake has won over the real. That's not cool.

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

Meh!

Stupid people will be wrong, people who do their research will know what's up. This is the way it's always been. Only difference now, is there are a lot more stupid people...

There certainly aren't more stupid or uneducated people than ever before, but the point is NEVER to say "oh, no big deal, the 1% educated people will get it and let's not care about the 99% clueless". The 99% clueless are what matters in that case. If I add brushes to Guernica or edit down James Joyce's Ulysses to make a shorter, easier to read novel, and if 99% believe that these are the genuine versions, what difference does it make that 1% knows the truth? Technically the fake has won over the real. That's not cool.

We debated this in that other thread. I stand by what I said at the time and continue to see merit in your points and to a large extent agree with you.

I'm just feeling a little "meh" right now about rehashing the bits where we disagree...

That said, beyond sharing the link to the previous thread, I should have just shut funk up.

Have at it my friend...

[Edited 10/29/13 9:59am]

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

There certainly aren't more stupid or uneducated people than ever before, but the point is NEVER to say "oh, no big deal, the 1% educated people will get it and let's not care about the 99% clueless". The 99% clueless are what matters in that case. If I add brushes to Guernica or edit down James Joyce's Ulysses to make a shorter, easier to read novel, and if 99% believe that these are the genuine versions, what difference does it make that 1% knows the truth? Technically the fake has won over the real. That's not cool.

We debated this in that other thread. I stand by what I said at the time and continue to see merit in your points and to a large extent agree with you.

I'm just feeling a little "meh" right now about rehashing the bits where we disagree...

That said, beyond sharing the link to the previous thread, I should have just shut funk up.

Have at it my friend...

[Edited 10/29/13 9:59am]

I don't so much rehash the same shit for you than for all the lurkers that may have missed the other thread or similar earlier debates where I tried to make my point, but may read that one thread. I'm on a crusade here

But there's no harm in disagreeing, anyway

bigd74 said:

AhPook said:

I don't mind fan edits or remixes of Prince songs as long as they are labeled as such. What annoys the shit out of me are fan contribution to songs. The last thing I want to hear is some guitar hero playing along to Alphabet Street or Strange But True and passing that off as a new mix. Something like The Dawn 4.1 works because it is pieced together from official and unofficial Prince sources. It's a reimagining. When keyboard parts or a guitar solo is added to a song (like Graycap23 mentioned in the thread dj Thunderfunk linked to), a line is crossed. That's like sneaking into a museum and adding stick figures to Picasso's Guernica.

I think you'll find every track of The Dawn was an unofficial take of each song.

I realize that every track has been modified. That's what pieced together means.

And yes, I know that track names get changed and some will think unofficial mixes are official mixes. I think the fear of fan edits supplanting the released versions of songs is exaggerated though. For the most part, if someone is a big enough Prince fan to track down alternate versions of songs or unreleased mixes, then that someone is a big enough fan to know the difference between Jughead and Ernest's mix. Casual fans will get their Jughead from itunes or something and if iTunes can't tell the difference between versions, we're all lost.

PhantomOfSolace said:

has anyone here ever attempted to remaster Prince's 80's albums by themselves?

,

Do you own the masters?

Otherwise I don't get how you would "remaster" an album.

databank said:

djThunderfunk said:

We debated this in that other thread. I stand by what I said at the time and continue to see merit in your points and to a large extent agree with you.

I'm just feeling a little "meh" right now about rehashing the bits where we disagree...

That said, beyond sharing the link to the previous thread, I should have just shut funk up.

Have at it my friend...

[Edited 10/29/13 9:59am]

I don't so much rehash the same shit for you than for all the lurkers that may have missed the other thread or similar earlier debates where I tried to make my point, but may read that one thread. I'm on a crusade here

But there's no harm in disagreeing, anyway

AhPook said:

bigd74 said:

AhPook said: I think you'll find every track of The Dawn was an unofficial take of each song.

I realize that every track has been modified. That's what pieced together means.

And yes, I know that track names get changed and some will think unofficial mixes are official mixes. I think the fear of fan edits supplanting the released versions of songs is exaggerated though. For the most part, if someone is a big enough Prince fan to track down alternate versions of songs or unreleased mixes, then that someone is a big enough fan to know the difference between Jughead and Ernest's mix. Casual fans will get their Jughead from itunes or something and if iTunes can't tell the difference between versions, we're all lost.

Wait--did Ernest actually do a mix of Jughead? And if so, WHY??????

EddieC said:

AhPook said:

I realize that every track has been modified. That's what pieced together means.

And yes, I know that track names get changed and some will think unofficial mixes are official mixes. I think the fear of fan edits supplanting the released versions of songs is exaggerated though. For the most part, if someone is a big enough Prince fan to track down alternate versions of songs or unreleased mixes, then that someone is a big enough fan to know the difference between Jughead and Ernest's mix. Casual fans will get their Jughead from itunes or something and if iTunes can't tell the difference between versions, we're all lost.

Wait--did Ernest actually do a mix of Jughead? And if so, WHY??????

For certain albums like SOTT, a simple volume adjustment on just those songs works wonders in iTunes. That's a low-tech, non-destructive adjustment though. If one of those songs flows into one of his earlier works, then they're not noticeably different in volume.

I ripped SOTT in album order from a pristine copy of the LP and 12" singles, converting them to HD files. I used a high end stylus, ripping direct to CD before converting to digital.

The 12" single pressings of the album version tracks ALL SOUND AMAZING!! I added a little EQ to the tracks to make them sound consistent (didn't need much), but overall I was completely amazed by how well they turned out.

*

I did and A/B test against the original CD pressing and now I can only listen to my own version, which includes all the B-Sides.

*

I can't wait to start all of the early albums as well as The Time and other associated artists, just to have a much brighter and fatter sound, true to the original master recordings.

*

This is the way to go if you need a better version of the early 80's albums. Just rip the vinyl, espcially if you have or can get your hands on the early promo only 12"& 7" singles that were mixed for clubs and radio play.

[Edited 10/30/13 9:30am]

databank said:

And how many people do u think now own 4DF's version of Corporate World and assume it's the album the way it was supposed to be? Sure 4DF were VERY clear in the fact that they'd messed with "My Summertime Thang",

Wait, what? Isn't that boot T's work in the first place? And how did they mess up? The artwork only says they combined both volumes of MST, but it doesn't say anything about an error.

@ HQ about 9 years ago, a Prince fan and sound guru from London worked some magic on most of the recordings from 78-90ish,(analogue and digital) and all the 12"s and associates stuff.(Looked on it as a project over a long period)

Although not interested in or motivated by financial gain....just for the love of the music

The results were shared to those who were interested, and are extremely good.

I am in no way offering, soliciting etc etc only discussing

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

And how many people do u think now own 4DF's version of Corporate World and assume it's the album the way it was supposed to be? Sure 4DF were VERY clear in the fact that they'd messed with "My Summertime Thang",

Wait, what? Isn't that boot T's work in the first place? And how did they mess up? The artwork only says they combined both volumes of MST, but it doesn't say anything about an error.

IDK about T's boot. I never had a full version of the album (with the released tracks) before 4DF's release. If such a thing exist I'd gladly put my hands on it ^^

As for the 4DF release... well combining both versions of a song IS messing up with it goddammit! And it's not like you could just cut it in 2 at the right place with AudaCity, they did it in such a way that they created a whole new mix that can't be restored to Pt. 1 and Pt. 2

I had to take the original version from another boot and put it in place of their fanmade version in order to get the original album. Thanks God the difference in sound quality isn't too obvious but hell!

What I don't understand is WHY oh WHY didn't they release both version of this and The Sacrifice Of Victor. They're not printing CD's, they don't sell it, they could perfectly have released the original versions alongside theirs, it wouldn't have cost them a dime and we could have chosen which one we wanted to keep. To think that a pristine sounding version of TSOV exist WITH the spoken interludes, exactly as released, and that they won't release it makes me sick. Instead I have to listen to my old LD rip, which sounds much less good

youngyosh said:

@ HQ about 9 years ago, a Prince fan and sound guru from London worked some magic on most of the recordings from 78-90ish,(analogue and digital) and all the 12"s and associates stuff.(Looked on it as a project over a long period)

Although not interested in or motivated by financial gain....just for the love of the music

The results were shared to those who were interested, and are extremely good.

I am in no way offering, soliciting etc etc only discussing

Look, it is possible that he was able to improve the sound of those records, but in the end he is working with inferior source material. He's never going to reveal instruments that were not audible. And that is what some of the HDTracks releases did reveal: previously unheard details. Applying filters can give you the impression things sound better, but in the end you are adding another layer on top and degrading the sound quality.

We can only hope that one day a talented sound engineer gets to properly remaster those classic 1980s albums (and related tracks), perhaps even using the original multitrack masters. Like I said before: by now we should be on the third wave of remasters, this time with high end audio releases (Blu-ray,...). That we're still stuck with okay-ish sounding CDs is a crime.

BartVanHemelen said:

youngyosh said:

@ HQ about 9 years ago, a Prince fan and sound guru from London worked some magic on most of the recordings from 78-90ish,(analogue and digital) and all the 12"s and associates stuff.(Looked on it as a project over a long period)

Although not interested in or motivated by financial gain....just for the love of the music

The results were shared to those who were interested, and are extremely good.

I am in no way offering, soliciting etc etc only discussing

Look, it is possible that he was able to improve the sound of those records, but in the end he is working with inferior source material. He's never going to reveal instruments that were not audible. And that is what some of the HDTracks releases did reveal: previously unheard details. Applying filters can give you the impression things sound better, but in the end you are adding another layer on top and degrading the sound quality.

We can only hope that one day a talented sound engineer gets to properly remaster those classic 1980s albums (and related tracks), perhaps even using the original multitrack masters. Like I said before: by now we should be on the third wave of remasters, this time with high end audio releases (Blu-ray,...). That we're still stuck with okay-ish sounding CDs is a crime.

So, Bart--should I get the HDTracks? I have flac rips from most of the vinyls from the old days--would I really be hearing that much that I'm missing?