Do anyone have any knowledge on the history behind All The Critics? Anyone noticed the similarity of the drum pattern, and how it is slowly being faded in behind the noise? Instead of the old fashioned trumpet like sound, Prince used car noize and car beeeep to give us a sense of city sound and modern times. The sound of the drums is almost identical linn programming with also very similar use of effects, just minor changes, stripping it and then adding a few drums to fill the syncopation needed to make it funky. Damn Prince is good at stealing and making it his own. He is so obvious, yet so hard to discover if one doesn't listen to alot of different music.

[Edited 9/28/11 2:07am]

[Edited 9/28/11 2:09am]

[Edited 9/28/11 2:17am]

Never made the connection before, but I hear it. Nice find.

I think it's pretty well known that Prince was influenced by New Wave and New Romantics from this period, and I can't think of any sources, but I'm almost certain Adam Ant is cited as one such influence along with Gary Numan et all.

don't know what exactly you mean, but Adam Ant made some really great albums in the early 80s.

this is a classic song, just amazing. And a UK nr 1!....

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ecnirp2004/AlphabetSt2.jpg[/img:$uid]

^ was Prince inspired by Ant, to do this stripe on his face... in the Alphabet St. video?

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ecnirp2004/AdamAntKingsOfTheWild.jpg[/img:$uid]

[img:$uid]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ecnirp2004/AdamAntVeryBestOf.jpg[/img:$uid]

I hear it, but it's likely just a coincidence. Either way, it's certainly not "stealing"...

Stand and Deliver...!

Your money or your life!

I remember that song.

toejam said:

I hear it, but it's likely just a coincidence. Either way, it's certainly not "stealing"...

Something that obvious is never a coincidense. It's a pretty easy noticable reference if you think while you listen...

- Old fashioned horn and riding horses VS Car horns and traffic
- this bakground collage is slowly fading out while the drum pattern is fading in
- Very similar linn drum pattern mixed almost the same way with same type of effects
- prince basically removed some of the drum hits, and replaced it with new syncopation to make it sound more funky

it's not rip off, but an obvious reference. He flipped Adams flirt with the past, and put it in a funky new and electronic context. I know that some Prince fans get hurt whenever Prince music wasn't god sent or something. I'm a HUGE fan of Prince music, but also of music in general. The genious of Prince is bridging the gap effortless between fantastic music imo. But also doing new stuff on top of that.

toejam said:

I hear it, but it's likely just a coincidence. Either way, it's certainly not "stealing"...

Agree. It's sometimes a fine line b/t inspiration and stealing, but here, nah. Artists are "inspired" by others all the time. How many musicians have been "inspired" by Prince's songs? I recently read that people criticized Phil Collins' "Sussudio" for being a rip-off of "1999," and he didn't deny it. Heard a long time ago that Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love" was very much like some old blues song. And so it is.

Masterpieces can't be copied or duplicated...............

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Masterpieces can't be copied or duplicated...............

I'm curious what you mean - ^^ it's so cryptic. Do you mean Adam Ant's song is a masterpiece or that it is not? Or that 1999 is not a masterpiece or that Sussudio is second-rate? Many interpretations for your comment. Just askin'.

Sure why not.

Adam Ant happily admitted to stealing from everyone and passing it off as his own so why not Prince? It's probably harder to do these days since anything can be found within seconds on the internet.

Isn't All the Critics a direct rewrite of something from the Bladerunner soundtrack though?

edit: oh no, that's something in the water.

[Edited 9/29/11 1:50am]

I remember watching 'the sting' with robert redford (i think its this film, or similar prohibition film from the same time) and noticed that i had heard the background noise of traffic before. You can hear a man shout 'hey, thats my taxi'. It appears a lot in that film whenever there is a street scene. Its the same sample/environmental record prince used in this song for the traffic noise.

spoida said:

I remember watching 'the sting' with robert redford (i think its this film, or similar prohibition film from the same time) and noticed that i had heard the background noise of traffic before. You can hear a man shout 'hey, thats my taxi'. It appears a lot in that film whenever there is a street scene. Its the same sample/environmental record prince used in this song for the traffic noise.

thanks for the info

this is what I love with the org. When it comes to getting a greater view on Prince music it's nice to have people from all over the world discovering parts of sampling and influences that was important to his music. And since Prince took inspiration from most musical directions, it also makes it easier for people to discover other music through him and the org.

I can see that - Adam was more punk, but that fits with prince's new wave era - loved A&theA, all of that Prince Charming and Dandy Highwayman stuff was cool.

wow somebody has nothing in life to do but try and label prince a thief these 2 songs are so damn different and both of them would prolly call u a damn fool.if u not running round claiming prince owe everything 2 wendy and lisa he stealing from some other loser wow

cbarnes3121 said:

wow somebody has nothing in life to do but try and label prince a thief these 2 songs are so damn different and both of them would prolly call u a damn fool.if u not running round claiming prince owe everything 2 wendy and lisa he stealing from some other loser wow

You knew it was coming sooner or later!

No.

wtf.. if i spent all day fiddling with instruments/keyboards & gagets & shit even i could get this drum pattern without ever hearing these songs. stand & deliver! my arse!!

@Replica: are you familiar with the phenomena "Zeitgeist"?

cbarnes3121 said:

wow somebody has nothing in life to do but try and label prince a thief

He is somehow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z3xD7tKbRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHKNLyILIUw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej41zcmRfPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz77xmzSMrQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnDSBFPNjSM

But to be fair: He always adds a very special "Prince touch" if he borrows from other peoples ideas!

[Edited 9/29/11 10:01am]

DoffieParker said:

wtf.. if i spent all day fiddling with instruments/keyboards & gagets & shit even i could get this drum pattern without ever hearing these songs. stand & deliver! my arse!!

If you spent all day fiddling with instruments and keyboards and shit you'd make almost the excact same drum pattern, same kind of mix balance between the drums, same drum sounds, same use of gated reverb, similar use of compression, slowly fading in the drums to traffic noize and horn(wagon horse and trumpet). The standard of 80s drum programming wasnt developed yet, as 1999 was one of the first big selling pop albums to really take the linn in full use.

Stand & Deliver was released a good year before 1999. It's very much possible he was inspired I mean It's served on a fucking plate. The two songs are very different, they just have a few things in common that is so obvious if you know something about composition, production techniques and sound engineering. As I'm producing my own music, I'm very much interested in the creative process of others. Learning how others think, makes you a better musician.

I didn't really mean stealing as in a negative way. I just think he is brilliant in putting puzzles together, kinda like a modern hip hop beat maker. Prince is my favourite musician and artist. He is also an inspiration to be free in an abusive world that we live in. I have nothing but love towards the good music he put out. But I don't deny the fact that he was inspired by so many artists out there, and occationally he would do some obvious rip off and put some princey edge to it to make it his own. I'm not one of those saying he is a vampire. He is pretty much as much of a vampire as anybody else. A genious vampire, sponge or whatever. He atleast makes something new out of most of what he soaks up.

Replica, I wouldn't bother - the similarity is obvious and it's clear you're just pointing out something neat - but there are people here who see even something as benign as that as a direct attack on Prince's divinity, and as loyal warrior servants to their lord, they must defend and evangelise the God-given inspiration that is Prince's pop music recording career.

imho the drum pattern is too similiar to be pure coincidence ...

This drum pattern doesn't sound similar to me. "Stand and Deliver" sounds more like "Shock Treatment" from Richard O'Brien's movie (the informal sequel to Rocky Horror).

This, to me, sounds almost exactly like "Stand and Deliver" and neither sound like "All the Critics In New York"...

I hate when people use the word "stealing" when the "original" content is a very common structure.

Kind of like when people compare "Colonized Mind" to that other song. The chords aren't too complex to begin with. People with a Yamaha keyboard probably write that one up at home.

Holy Craplola...

To imply that Prince has never been influenced and is living in a cave somewhere without culture references is elevating Prince to a higher level then he deserves.

Prince has gone in certain directions based on what he hears, or what others play for him. It isn't a coincidence that he uses the phrase 'in through the out door' (title of a Led Zep album) or many other influences.

Did he get influenced by Adam Ant? Probably. Gary Numan? Definitely. Sly Stone? Of course. Hendrix? Yes. The Beatles? Yes. And did members of his band influence him? Yes of course they did. That is how it works when you are in a band.

And I'm glad he did get influenced by them. It makes his music that much better to see what others do, and then tweak it in a way that they might not have done. No one can release as many albums as he has and not inadvertently or intentionally copy a drum beat, a riff, etc.

NeonCraxx said:

Kind of like when people compare "Colonized Mind" to that other song. The chords aren't too complex to begin with. People with a Yamaha keyboard probably write that one up at home.

Yes sure and after the "Yamaha keyboard" they suddenly come up with the same harmonies and almost the same lyrics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqo6NcKkpes

What other songs do use this very "common Structure" please?

[Edited 9/30/11 1:08am]

NeonCraxx said:

I hate when people use the word "stealing" when the "original" content is a very common structure.

Kind of like when people compare "Colonized Mind" to that other song. The chords aren't too complex to begin with. People with a Yamaha keyboard probably write that one up at home.

Holy Craplola...

Allright, the word steal is maybe a bit too far for ya'll emotional people. The drum pattern alone wouldn't be enough for me to say this. But the whole production of it together in the intro part has a concept that is too similar to not be a direct influence. I'm not talking about the whole song, but the intro part. It's so fucking obvious similarities as explained if anyone bothered to read my terrible Norwegian english.

-Horse and wagon with horns VS Car noize with horns
-Very similar drum pattern except Prince left out the tribal sound, and put on some modern syncopation. Tempo, hits, sound, mix and production. The total sound of the drums is very similar
-this drum pattern is slowly fading in over the intro collage

-after this, the songs are intirely different, and I'm so sorry for hurting anyones feelings

To spinlight, yes Shock treatment and Stand and Delivers is probably even more similar because of the "tribal" tom toms on top. Which only explains that Prince was smart at transforming ideas.

However the intro concept + the drums is why I made a topic about this. It's clever usage and flipping on others ideas, and making it his own as he is putting it in a whole different concept.

Soulstar77A said:

NeonCraxx said:

Kind of like when people compare "Colonized Mind" to that other song. The chords aren't too complex to begin with. People with a Yamaha keyboard probably write that one up at home.

Yes sure and after the "Yamaha keyboard" they suddenly come up with the same harmonies and almost the same lyrics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqo6NcKkpes

What other songs do use this very "common Structure" please?

[Edited 9/30/11 1:08am]

jaawwnn said:

Isn't All the Critics a direct rewrite of something from the Bladerunner soundtrack though?

edit: oh no, that's something in the water.

Really? Never heard about that, but now i'm curious.

Can you please provide a link or name that particular track from the Bladerunner soundtrack? I really want to check it out!