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Thread started 09/16/11 8:25am

rdhull

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Purple Rain with no When Doves Cry

Since WDC was created basically after the flick was in the can and the studio wanted a song that was a cohesive hit, would the movie have been as huge of a monster as it was without it being included? I guess the lead off single would have ended up being Lets Go Crazy, which in essence isn't a bad lead off single and had/has great energy as a summer single anyways. Thing is, in the movie, Doves is only half played and in a montage sequence at that. Yes it was a monster on radio play and the video was all over the place but so was/and so would have been Lets Go Crazy in place of Doves. If anything, WDC should not have been a hit because it was semeingly INaccessible (to me at least..I disliked it upon first hearings) as it was nothing like what was fashionable and its dramatic lyrics and reading seems to be a negative for pop chart heights. Im sure thats what made it so speciual and a hit I guess. LGC however is catchy from the git go. Im just wondering with no WDC if the whole project wold have been alright enough to be as huge a hit.

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #1 posted 09/16/11 9:10am

Javi

Regarding quality, the album would have been worse, since When Doves Cry is awesome and, as you say, very innovative and groundbreaking. But in commercial terms I think the album would have been a success anyway. There were enough hits there.

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Reply #2 posted 09/16/11 9:13am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Javi said:

Regarding quality, the album would have been worse, since When Doves Cry is awesome and, as you say, very innovative and groundbreaking. But in commercial terms I think the album would have been a success anyway. There were enough hits there.

I agree, I'm trying to image it not on the album or in the movie and I don't know what other song with that electricity could have been there especially with those lyrics that fit 2 well

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #3 posted 09/16/11 9:24am

rdhull

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OldFriends4Sale said:

Javi said:

Regarding quality, the album would have been worse, since When Doves Cry is awesome and, as you say, very innovative and groundbreaking. But in commercial terms I think the album would have been a success anyway. There were enough hits there.

I agree, I'm trying to image it not on the album or in the movie and I don't know what other song with that electricity could have been there especially with those lyrics that fit 2 well

If it wasnt in the movie I dont think it would have changed the success of it one way or the other since it was basically a 2 minute snippet

can something 2 minutes be considered a snippet?

the album..I dont know

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #4 posted 09/16/11 9:29am

bobbyperu

You are not the only one. Dr Fink did not like it at first either.
It also was the last song added to the lp. So Purple Rain was originally intended to be without this song. I am sure it still would have been a succes but somehow I think WDC is what turned PR from a good album into a great one and Prince from a rock star into a superstar.
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Reply #5 posted 09/16/11 9:40am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I agree, I'm trying to image it not on the album or in the movie and I don't know what other song with that electricity could have been there especially with those lyrics that fit 2 well

If it wasnt in the movie I dont think it would have changed the success of it one way or the other since it was basically a 2 minute snippet

can something 2 minutes be considered a snippet?

the album..I dont know

Maybe Traffic Jam could have fit?

Oh remember in the original script that scene was supposed to much longer, where Prince tride to outrun a train on his bike, I think it was connected with the Jellybean fight scene

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #6 posted 09/16/11 11:42am

BiscuitCrumbs

'When Doves Cry' elevates the album to one of the greatest of all time, IMO. I really can't imagine the album without it.
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Reply #7 posted 09/16/11 1:27pm

ufoclub

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The single and the video is what projected the Purple Rain mood into the mainstream, and with scenes from some Prince movie! It was a trailer/commercial that happened to also be a hit song that was so good it sounded like nothing else around it and managed to still sound like a classic, and the video presented a further crazy sensualized Prince (coming out of the tub) and a spicy pimp dressed version of Prince (the band part).

Without all that, I don't think the teens would have been half as entranced to see Purple Rain or buy the album.

I bet the entire Purple Rain enterpise would not have done nearly as much business at all.

Let's Go Crazy did not create that kind of strong mood, however good that song was.

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Reply #8 posted 09/16/11 3:34pm

Creussonino

It's the same as "Thriller with no Billie Jean". People talk 'bout Purple Rain song, but i'm still convicted that When Doves Cry are a way better.

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Reply #9 posted 09/16/11 3:40pm

dalsh327

"When Doves Cry" is possibly the first music video that also functioned as a movie trailer. Since then, it's become the norm... sometimes the actors appearing in the videos & singers appearing in the movies.

Take into account the video being played over and over, becoming a #1 hit, and then the MTV movie premiere in Hollywood... it all def. helped it from being a limited release film. If you figure out the adjusted gross on everything, it did very well just in the box office, never mind the home video sales and tour. Keep in mind Prince didn't make much money off the movie itself, but when it came to the soundtrack and tour, made himself into a multimillionaire within a year.

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Reply #10 posted 09/16/11 4:43pm

BorisFishpaw

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bobbyperu said:

You are not the only one. Dr Fink did not like it at first either. It also was the last song added to the lp. So Purple Rain was originally intended to be without this song. I am sure it still would have been a succes but somehow I think WDC is what turned PR from a good album into a great one and Prince from a rock star into a superstar.

Actually, "Take Me With U" was the last song added to the album.

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Reply #11 posted 09/16/11 4:58pm

Timmy84

I can't see it NOT being on the album. Matter of fact, as someone just pointed out, Take Me Wit U was one of those "last additions", not When Doves Cry. It was fate with that particular song.

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Reply #12 posted 09/16/11 5:08pm

WinterIsComing

Since "When doves cry" is in my top two list (She's Always in my hair being the other) im a little biased. I agree with some of the other posters, when doves cry just set a mood that lets go crazy did'nt. Don't get me wrong, "Let's go Crazy"is a jam, but "When doves cry" was ground breaking. The fact that it didnt sound like anything on the radio, and still managed to become so huge was remarkable. It just gave the whole project that extra kick.

Most things that I worry about, never happen anyway
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Reply #13 posted 09/16/11 5:43pm

rdhull

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dalsh327 said:

"When Doves Cry" is possibly the first music video that also functioned as a movie trailer. Since then, it's become the norm... sometimes the actors appearing in the videos & singers appearing in the movies.

Take into account the video being played over and over, becoming a #1 hit, and then the MTV movie premiere in Hollywood... it all def. helped it from being a limited release film. If you figure out the adjusted gross on everything, it did very well just in the box office, never mind the home video sales and tour. Keep in mind Prince didn't make much money off the movie itself, but when it came to the soundtrack and tour, made himself into a multimillionaire within a year.

WDC/Purple Rain came after Flashdance (What A Feeling), Maniac from Flashdance and Footloose etc from the same movie, Footloose aka Flashdance With A Penis.

Yeah WDC was played over and over, but Lets Go Crazy would have been and was as well. I was excited to see THAT video and the scenes that video showed, Prince in concert, performing a lot. WDC was a studio themed affair (but still nevertheless great, but the only movie scenes were him being a primpy stick like figue riding his bike and him kissing himself in a mirror..oh wait he was on top of Apples but they both looked like each other lol). Lets Go Crazy is a hell of a song evne if it rips off J Geils Band. Hell, he used it as the opener of the flick and tour. WDC is a great cente rpiece along with PR, but I think it would have still been a hit. As big? Just as big?

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #14 posted 09/16/11 5:45pm

rdhull

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OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

If it wasnt in the movie I dont think it would have changed the success of it one way or the other since it was basically a 2 minute snippet

can something 2 minutes be considered a snippet?

the album..I dont know

Maybe Traffic Jam could have fit?

Oh remember in the original script that scene was supposed to much longer, where Prince tride to outrun a train on his bike, I think it was connected with the Jellybean fight scene

Traffic Jam? Oh hells no!

Plus they would have just used that Columbier incidental music for the extended scene of him doing the train race. The rough cut shows this and I believe it has some incidental only music in it.

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #15 posted 09/16/11 5:45pm

rdhull

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BiscuitCrumbs said:

'When Doves Cry' elevates the album to one of the greatest of all time, IMO. I really can't imagine the album without it.

I guess you are right believe it or not.

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Reply #16 posted 09/16/11 5:50pm

rdhull

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ufoclub said:

The single and the video is what projected the Purple Rain mood into the mainstream, and with scenes from some Prince movie! It was a trailer/commercial that happened to also be a hit song that was so good it sounded like nothing else around it and managed to still sound like a classic, and the video presented a further crazy sensualized Prince (coming out of the tub) and a spicy pimp dressed version of Prince (the band part).

Without all that, I don't think the teens would have been half as entranced to see Purple Rain or buy the album.

I bet the entire Purple Rain enterpise would not have done nearly as much business at all.

Let's Go Crazy did not create that kind of strong mood, however good that song was.

I guess this is true to because that video was a trip and a fucking half. Him in a tub with geetar beside hiom klmao. And crawling acroiss the floor with petals, the church glass stained windows in the background. I mean , it didn't move my groin area but the video was enigmatic and interesting (even if one of my siblings said 'what a weirdo!).

Im wondering what strong a mood LGC would have had..if it would have been AT LEAST ENOUGH to ....do something

because I was ready for LGC as I read in a magazine about the spring and filming of the scene in Right On or something...I was expecting and waiting for that to hit the radio all sping of 84...then this..this..WDC song that was (at the time)...awful!! hahaha

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #17 posted 09/16/11 5:51pm

rdhull

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Creussonino said:

It's the same as "Thriller with no Billie Jean". People talk 'bout Purple Rain song, but i'm still convicted that When Doves Cry are a way better.

excellent analogy

.

[Edited 9/17/11 7:47am]

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Reply #18 posted 09/16/11 5:52pm

rdhull

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BorisFishpaw said:

bobbyperu said:

You are not the only one. Dr Fink did not like it at first either. It also was the last song added to the lp. So Purple Rain was originally intended to be without this song. I am sure it still would have been a succes but somehow I think WDC is what turned PR from a good album into a great one and Prince from a rock star into a superstar.

Actually, "Take Me With U" was the last song added to the album.

Whoah. I always thought it was WDC cause the studio told him they needed something else to make it a hit ST wise. Learn something new everyday. Thanks.

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #19 posted 09/16/11 6:25pm

BorisFishpaw

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rdhull said:

BorisFishpaw said:

Actually, "Take Me With U" was the last song added to the album.

Whoah. I always thought it was WDC cause the studio told him they needed something else to make it a hit ST wise. Learn something new everyday. Thanks.

That's all true, but when When Doves Cry was recorded and added to the album it still didn't include Take Me With U. The album was sequenced and looked exactly like the released version, except for the exclusion of Take Me With U and the inclusion of a 7 & 1/2 minute edit of Computer Blue.

At that stage Take Me With U was actually included on the Apollonia 6 album instead (along with Manic Monday). Prince then moved Take Me With U onto Purple Rain at the last minute, editing Computer Blue down by over 3 & 1/2 minutes to make room for it.

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Reply #20 posted 09/16/11 6:32pm

rdhull

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BorisFishpaw said:

rdhull said:

Whoah. I always thought it was WDC cause the studio told him they needed something else to make it a hit ST wise. Learn something new everyday. Thanks.

That's all true, but when When Doves Cry was recorded and added to the album it still didn't include Take Me With U. The album was sequenced and looked exactly like the released version, except for the exclusion of Take Me With U and the inclusion of a 7 & 1/2 minute edit of Computer Blue.

At that stage Take Me With U was actually included on the Apollonia 6 album instead (along with Manic Monday). Prince then moved Take Me With U onto Purple Rain at the last minute, editing Computer Blue down by over 3 & 1/2 minutes to make room for it.

Wait. We lose an epic version of CB for Take Me With U.

<--rdhull goes outside, puts hands on deck railing,looks across canyon... and cries to himself

.

[Edited 9/16/11 18:37pm]

sitting like a princess perched in her electric chair
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Reply #21 posted 09/16/11 6:48pm

aardvark15

When Doves Cry was P's 1st number one hit, and one of the biggest hits of the 80's. I don't think Let's Go Crazy, Purple Rain, I Would Die 4 U, 17 Days, or Erotic City would have become the hits they were if it weren't for When Doves Cry success. Purple Rain probably would have sold the same amount as 1999 if it wasn't for When Doves Cry

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Reply #22 posted 09/17/11 3:34am

Replica

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In europe it seems like the song Purple Rain is the one everyone remembers. Parade was also a european favorite. More people would mention Kiss and Purple Rain as the songs they remember when Prince is the topic. I actually don't think half the people I know at my age 25 knows the song When Doves Cry.

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Reply #23 posted 09/17/11 3:53am

Timmy84

Replica said:

In europe it seems like the song Purple Rain is the one everyone remembers. Parade was also a european favorite. More people would mention Kiss and Purple Rain as the songs they remember when Prince is the topic. I actually don't think half the people I know at my age 25 knows the song When Doves Cry.

Maybe Purple Rain had better success in Europe than When Doves Cry. If they were equal, then maybe it's just from where you're at. shrug But I know in the U.S., you couldn't escape When Doves Cry.

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Reply #24 posted 09/17/11 4:46am

bobbyperu

BorisFishpaw said:



bobbyperu said:


You are not the only one. Dr Fink did not like it at first either. It also was the last song added to the lp. So Purple Rain was originally intended to be without this song. I am sure it still would have been a succes but somehow I think WDC is what turned PR from a good album into a great one and Prince from a rock star into a superstar.


Actually, "Take Me With U" was the last song added to the album.


My face is red
I stand corrected
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Reply #25 posted 09/17/11 4:52am

bobbyperu

rdhull said:



Creussonino said:


It's the same as "Thriller with no Billie Jean". People talk 'bout Purple Rain song, but i'm still convicted that When Doves Cry are a way better.





excellent anology


I've got another one:
Beggars Banquet without Sympathy for the devil.
(U must be a Stones fan with that logo!)
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Reply #26 posted 09/17/11 7:03am

ecstasy

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oh wow, that is a good theory to think of... Hmmm, in denial, I think it still woulda been hot without it, but in reality, prolly not as powerful to make casual fans/ppl go see it. So I guess I'll stick with the side that says w/o WDC, definitely less ppl woulda went to see Purple Rain w/o the mega push of the hit song.

Yes, at 19, I finally saw the Revolution, a legendary band. And I talked to Wendy!!! biggrin In addition to seeing Prince, I have now lived life. Thank you Purple People!!
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Reply #27 posted 09/17/11 7:42am

aardvark15

bobbyperu said:

BorisFishpaw said:

Actually, "Take Me With U" was the last song added to the album.

My face is red I stand corrected

When Doves Cry was the last song recorded but Take Me With U was the last song to be put on PR because it was intended to be on Appolonia 6's album but somehow it got onto PR and they had to cut down Computer Blue

Anthology: It's like Control without Nasty

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Reply #28 posted 09/17/11 7:52am

V10LETBLUES

WDC is a song that stops in your tracks on first listen. The first time I heard it it was playing in a different room and I stopped what I was doing and hurried to get closer to get a better listen. Blew me away. I do not think PR would have been as big a hit by a long shot without WDC. The song cemented the fact that Prince was no ordinary pop artist, but someone on a league of his own.

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Reply #29 posted 09/17/11 12:14pm

alexnvrmnd777

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

If it wasnt in the movie I dont think it would have changed the success of it one way or the other since it was basically a 2 minute snippet

can something 2 minutes be considered a snippet?

the album..I dont know

Maybe Traffic Jam could have fit?

Oh remember in the original script that scene was supposed to much longer, where Prince tride to outrun a train on his bike, I think it was connected with the Jellybean fight scene

Traffic Jam?? No way. That's such an ordinary jam, and I don't even think it would've been released as a single at any point.

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