i just sat down and had a good listen to dream factory...i havent listened to it in a long time and..although i do think its a great album....it doesnt hit the heights that the eventual sign o the times album does for me....i think sign o the times is a better album because of songs he added like adore..housequake...starfish and coffee..forever in my life...its gonna be a beautiful night....i think these songs are far better than the dream factory track...train...last heart...movie star...witness...

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the only song he took off i wish he kept is all my dreams...and i also prefer the version of strange relationship that is on sign o the times....

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of course...no album could compete against my favourite album of all time so dream factory...great as it is...doesnt match up for me....

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whatcha think ?

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sott > dream factory

I would have to side with Dream Factory, with a release of Camille so we would've got Housequake.

bigd74 said:

I would have to side with Dream Factory, with a release of Camille so we would've got Housequake.

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really ?...so you think those tracks he left out are stronger than the ones he put in ?...

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interesting...i cant agree with you though...

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Personally, I prefer to listen to DF just because..... but I think SOTT is a much stronger album than either DF or CB - it benefited from all that time and chopping and changing throughout the transition.

The material on DF is amazing, but I think SOTT is much more commercial and makes for better audience appeal, it seems to make a stronger whole for me, even though there isn't really a theme to it, DF's sketchy/imagination like flow is much more scatty and unfocused (which in one sense is a benefit) - DF's whimsical side is much more prevalent and I think would've been received in much the same way as Parade. SOTT probably brought him back to the R&B audience a bit more than DF would've?

Getting DF, then Camille would've been the best of both worlds though.

I'd like a hybrid of the three projects (Dream, Crystal, SOTT)... but think the 3 record Crystal Ball would have been my favorite album of all time from him if it had been put out.

But Prince's tastes have a greater range then mine!

Personally, I think that Warners forcing P to release the two-disc version of DF (SOTT) was the best (single??) idea they ever had...

JoeTyler said:

Dream Factory is so special to me, I love it . But also SOTT has tracks that are so amazing like If I was your girlfriend, adore, u got the look, play in the sunshine. Then DF has great tracks like all my dreams, witness, moviestar, last heart.. so I usually make a playlist of alot of my favs from that era. But it is still so hard to choose

Love them both and great songs on each.

It's hard to say because we can't know how we'd have reacted to DF if it had been released instead of SOTT. SOTT is the masterpiece we discovered in 87, and DF is the could-have-been album that we discovered in full more than 10 years later and THEN compared to SOTT.

I personally find (the last known configuration of) DF lacking cohesiveness, which makes it an odd album, and a weaker album than SOTT IHMO. Idividually the songs are all great but as an album, I ain't too sure if it works. Now as I said maybe if I'd been used to DF for the last 20 years and suddenly I listen to SOTT, maybe I'd say the opposite and find SOTT to be the odd album

The Dream Factory of my dreams would have contained less minimalist SOTT tracks and more 85-86 outtakes such as Girl O' My Dreams, Sexual Suicide, We Can Funk, Can't Stop This Feeling I Got, Power Fantastic, Last Heart, Splash, No Light In A Large Room, Crucial, etc. Then we'd have had something that would have sounded more "Revolution", more "organic" and this could have been the best "Prince And The Revolution" album ever. But this is just my own fantasy playlist

databank said:

It's hard to say because we can't know how we'd have reacted to DF if it had been released instead of SOTT. SOTT is the masterpiece we discovered in 87, and DF is the could-have-been album that we discovered in full more than 10 years later and THEN compared to SOTT.

I personally find (the last known configuration of) DF lacking cohesiveness, which makes it an odd album, and a weaker album than SOTT IHMO. Idividually the songs are all great but as an album, I ain't too sure if it works. Now as I said maybe if I'd been used to DF for the last 20 years and suddenly I listen to SOTT, maybe I'd say the opposite and find SOTT to be the odd album

The Dream Factory of my dreams would have contained less minimalist SOTT tracks and more 85-86 outtakes such as Girl O' My Dreams, Sexual Suicide, We Can Funk, Can't Stop This Feeling I Got, Power Fantastic, Last Heart, Splash, No Light In A Large Room, Crucial, etc. Then we'd have had something that would have sounded more "Revolution", more "organic" and this could have been the best "Prince And The Revolution" album ever. But this is just my own fantasy playlist

What an amazing time for music for Prince and the revolution!!

Sign O' The Times is definitely the stronger album.

I don't think Crystal Ball was quite 'there' or strong enough as it stood to be released, so cutting it down from a triple to a double was a good move. Crystal Ball could have been viable if Prince had spent a bit more time on it, making further tweaks and re-sequencing it, and most importantly committed to promoting the album, i.e. singles, videos and touring for a good two year period (which I can't seem him doing).

Dream Factory is difficult to gauge as all we have are works in progress, none of which really represent what would have been commercially released had it gone ahead. The version that everyone's familiar with was compiled at a stage where the original album's intent was already being changed and it was already starting to morph into Crystal Ball. The penultimate configuration is more representative of what Dream Factory was intended to be, and is probably closer to what would have been released if Prince had gone through with it... had A) the Revolution not broken up, or B) Prince had decided to release it as a farewell Revolution album before embarking on his next solo record.

BorisFishpaw said:

Dream Factory is difficult to gauge as all we have are works in progress, none of which really represent what would have been commercially released had it gone ahead. The version that everyone's familiar with was compiled at a stage where the original album's intent was already being changed and it was already starting to morph into Crystal Ball. The penultimate configuration is more representative of what Dream Factory was intended to be, and is probably closer to what would have been released if Prince had gone through with it... had A) the Revolution not broken up, or B) Prince had decided to release it as a farewell Revolution album before embarking on his next solo record.

I think this earlier one better for it too, especially with Power Fantastic.

NouveauDance said:

BorisFishpaw said:

Dream Factory is difficult to gauge as all we have are works in progress, none of which really represent what would have been commercially released had it gone ahead. The version that everyone's familiar with was compiled at a stage where the original album's intent was already being changed and it was already starting to morph into Crystal Ball. The penultimate configuration is more representative of what Dream Factory was intended to be, and is probably closer to what would have been released if Prince had gone through with it... had A) the Revolution not broken up, or B) Prince had decided to release it as a farewell Revolution album before embarking on his next solo record.

I think this earlier one better for it too, especially with Power Fantastic.

and Sexual Suicide

Dream Factory version of Strange Relationship I prefer, though the one on SOTT has that part at the end I love - "I think you and I got a strange.. relationship"

BorisFishpaw said:

Sign O' The Times is definitely the stronger album.

I don't think Crystal Ball was quite 'there' or strong enough as it stood to be released, so cutting it down from a triple to a double was a good move. Crystal Ball could have been viable if Prince had spent a bit more time on it, making further tweaks and re-sequencing it, and most importantly committed to promoting the album, i.e. singles, videos and touring for a good two year period (which I can't seem him doing).

I agree with everything you said.

I prefer DF.

SOTT is my favourite released album, but I think Prince often has a better earlier configurations, and if he sits a project for two long, he weakens it.

Dirty Mind world because he just shoved it out their. Had he sat on it, it would have ended up a lot more polished, and it would have lost its edge. Same for ATWIAD.

I think SOTT suffers from a tweak or two too much, but not far from perfect.

I still for the life of me can't work out how Its Gonna Be A Beautiful Night made it on there at the expense of two other great tracks.

SquirrelMeat said:

I prefer DF.

SOTT is my favourite released album, but I think Prince often has a better earlier configurations, and if he sits a project for two long, he weakens it.

Dirty Mind world because he just shoved it out their. Had he sat on it, it would have ended up a lot more polished, and it would have lost its edge. Same for ATWIAD.

I think SOTT suffers from a tweak or two too much, but not far from perfect.

I still for the life of me can't work out how Its Gonna Be A Beautiful Night made it on there at the expense of two other great tracks.

Shockadelica and Rebirth Of The Flesh wipes the floor with it

[Edited 6/10/11 7:51am]

BorisFishpaw said:

Sign O' The Times is definitely the stronger album.

I don't think Crystal Ball was quite 'there' or strong enough as it stood to be released, so cutting it down from a triple to a double was a good move. Crystal Ball could have been viable if Prince had spent a bit more time on it, making further tweaks and re-sequencing it, and most importantly committed to promoting the album, i.e. singles, videos and touring for a good two year period (which I can't seem him doing).

Dream Factory is difficult to gauge as all we have are works in progress, none of which really represent what would have been commercially released had it gone ahead. The version that everyone's familiar with was compiled at a stage where the original album's intent was already being changed and it was already starting to morph into Crystal Ball. The penultimate configuration is more representative of what Dream Factory was intended to be, and is probably closer to what would have been released if Prince had gone through with it... had A) the Revolution not broken up, or B) Prince had decided to release it as a farewell Revolution album before embarking on his next solo record.

As strong as my doubts about DF are, I differ on CB: the tracklist as we know it is IMHO absolutely AMAZING. I can't remember who said that (Eric or Alan Leeds maybe?) but someone was quoted saying something like WB really slaughtered a masterpiece because, even though the sales might have suffered from the format, the critical success would have been enormous because a 3 LP release of such high quality and grounbreaking music would have been a first in pop history.

What I never understood was why no one (neither WB or Prince) thought about a possibility that would have made everyone happy: a limited 3 LP release of Crystal Ball for the hardcore fans, alongside a "mainstream" 1 LP release with all the singles on it. The 1 LP would have sold well and the 3 LP would have made prince happy and received massive critical success. All in all, I wish a remastered SOTT would contain a bonus 3 CD-set with the original CB, because I'd like to have it all with pristine sound quality.

This being said, SOTT as it is is definitely the most critically acclaimed album ever released by Prince, so who knows...

bigd74 said:

SquirrelMeat said:

I prefer DF.

SOTT is my favourite released album, but I think Prince often has a better earlier configurations, and if he sits a project for two long, he weakens it.

Dirty Mind world because he just shoved it out their. Had he sat on it, it would have ended up a lot more polished, and it would have lost its edge. Same for ATWIAD.

I think SOTT suffers from a tweak or two too much, but not far from perfect.

I still for the life of me can't work out how Its Gonna Be A Beautiful Night made it on there at the expense of two other great tracks.

Shockadelica and Rebirth Of The Flesh wipes the floor with it

I agree! "It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night" is the one song on SOTT that feels like filler.He should have saved it for a B-side and placed two other songs in its place,like big74 suggested.

SOTT is the greatest album of all time, so obviously it's better than the original DF version. No filler tracks like A Place In Heaven.

Faith had it that Prince would do something like SOTT, DF would've probably not been a good idea especially considering it was supposed to be a PRINCE AND THE REVOLUTION album so Prince's faith in that project died down when Wendy & Lisa and BrownMark left.

SOTT is my fave album of all time by any artist (well, I'd have to take The Cross out...).

But I think I'd sooner have CB than SOTT, and most probably I'd sooner have DF + Camille than CB.

[Edited 6/12/11 3:12am]

vitriol said:

SOTT is my fave album of all time by any artist (well, I'd have to take The Cross out...).

But I think I'd sooner have CB than SOTT, and most probably I'd sooner have DF + Camille than CB.

[Edited 6/12/11 3:12am]

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the cross ??...i love that song...no way..i remember when i first got the album way back and when i played it ...that was one the songs that my friends went 'wow' to...its a stunning song in an album full of great tracks..

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if i had to take one track out of sign..it would be 'it'....

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blackbob said:

vitriol said:

SOTT is my fave album of all time by any artist (well, I'd have to take The Cross out...).

But I think I'd sooner have CB than SOTT, and most probably I'd sooner have DF + Camille than CB.

[Edited 6/12/11 3:12am]

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the cross ??...i love that song...no way..i remember when i first got the album way back and when i played it ...that was one the songs that my friends went 'wow' to...its a stunning song in an album full of great tracks..

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if i had to take one track out of sign..it would be 'it'....

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If I had to take one track out it would be 'beautiful night'... could never get into it.

'The Cross' is for me something absolutely cringeworthy and SHOULD'VE NEVER been in a masterpiece album.

Musically is very very poor and you better don't get me started on the lyrics.

vitriol said:

'The Cross' is for me something absolutely cringeworthy and SHOULD'VE NEVER been in a masterpiece album.

Musically is very very poor and you better don't get me started on the lyrics.

This is all because you're an athiest, isn't it.

But seriously, I can understand why you hate it even if I consider it to be a masterpiece. It sounds like christian rock.

the thing with prince is that he feels like he has to cram so many genres into each record so that instead of one group of fans being completely satisfied .. he gives a little to each genre so that it will appeal to a wider target audience .. so we get sesame street shit like 'all my dreams' thrown in with camille tracks and classic rock like the cross or his usual r+b fluffer material .. like slow love, adore

amongst the b sides out takes and multiple configurations exists the perfect prince record .. but even in all the attempted configurations .. he never quite gets it right

there is no doubt sign o the times is one of the great records of all time, but considering the great tracks that could have been on it .. it could have been better .. and the current choices CB DF SOTT all have there share of not so classic material

crystal ball

dream factory

last heart

sott

play in the sunshine

house quake

ballad of dorothy parker

if i was your girlfriend

u got the look

strange relationship

i could never take the place of your man

shockadelica

we can funk

the cross

joy in repetition

not in that order but those are the greats in my opinion and had they been in one single package i have no doubt the record would have been recieved much better .. songs like "it" "beautiful night" etc .. they are good and fun but seem more like filler compared to the greatness of the other tracks

802 said:

vitriol said:

'The Cross' is for me something absolutely cringeworthy and SHOULD'VE NEVER been in a masterpiece album.

Musically is very very poor and you better don't get me started on the lyrics.

This is all because you're an athiest, isn't it.

But seriously, I can understand why you hate it even if I consider it to be a masterpiece. It sounds like christian rock.

Well, I AM an absolute atheist (and proud of it).

I can forget about the lyrics as I do with the overtly sexual ones (which I find stupid), but two lame chords put together just don't do it for me.

Add to that the fact I hate rock and you get the full picture.