databank said:

errant said:

and why wouldn't the intro part to the album version be by the same person playing guitar in the rest of the album version?

I really don't see any justification to assume that the opening guitar burst on the album version is by Prince.

Because it's the same guitar played by the same dude, the sound of P's "weird shit" is VERY specific. I might be wrong but then somebody prove me wrong ^^

I think the burden of proof is on you. The guitar intro on LAP is so brief and indistinct that it could be by anyone. And you're the first person to have ever claimed it to be him. And you're only guessing.

errant said:

databank said:

Because it's the same guitar played by the same dude, the sound of P's "weird shit" is VERY specific. I might be wrong but then somebody prove me wrong ^^

I think the burden of proof is on you. The guitar intro on LAP is so brief and indistinct that it could be by anyone. And you're the first person to have ever claimed it to be him. And you're only guessing.

Although I really like "LoveSong", it felt out of place on the album.

But the entire album sort of had this Graffiti Bridge feel to me...not a bad thing.

databank said:

errant said:

I think the burden of proof is on you. The guitar intro on LAP is so brief and indistinct that it could be by anyone. And you're the first person to have ever claimed it to be him. And you're only guessing.

Well, at least whoever wrote the french wiki page agrees with me (see link above) and i don't find it indistict at ALL. I don't even know who claimed that P was totally left out of the album version in the 1st place. By the way the English Wikipedia page now acknowledges the existence of the 7' version with fade so i've included it.

1) Okay, so not only are we using wikipedia as a source, we're now using the FRENCH wikipedia entry as a source? Tell me, did whoever speculated on that include a citation for a source? If you want to keep detailed information on this stuff, you don't use wikipedia as a source. No one has turned up true, independent research (a la The Vault, etc.) on it.

2) If I'm no mistaken, I belive it's Pat Lenoard, the producer and co-writer who claimed that Prince was left out of the album version. But I don't have link for that. It was stated in the days before the Internet. And I really don't care enough to track down the source.

3) He's barely on the 7" version with fade. That's the part that's faded out in the fade. His guitar part is only in the outro of the original 7" version.

[Edited 3/13/11 6:44am]

[Edited 3/13/11 6:45am]

errant said:

databank said:

Well, at least whoever wrote the french wiki page agrees with me (see link above) and i don't find it indistict at ALL. I don't even know who claimed that P was totally left out of the album version in the 1st place. By the way the English Wikipedia page now acknowledges the existence of the 7' version with fade so i've included it.

1) Okay, so not only are we using wikipedia as a source, we're now using the FRENCH wikipedia entry as a source? Tell me, did whoever speculated on that include a citation for a source? If you want to keep detailed information on this stuff, you don't use wikipedia as a source. No one has turned up true, independent research (a la The Vault, etc.) on it.

2) If I'm no mistaken, I belive it's Pat Lenoard, the producer and co-writer who claimed that Prince was left out of the album version. But I don't have link for that. It was stated in the days before the Internet. And I really don't care enough to track down the source.

3) He's barely on the 7" version with fade. That's the part that's faded out in the fade. His guitar part is only in the outro of the original 7" version.

[Edited 3/13/11 6:44am]

[Edited 3/13/11 6:45am]

Ok, fair enough. I'll try to make additionnal research asap, and Leonard might have considered the album intro as not being part of the song.

As for the 7 edit with fade, is Prince FADING on it, or completely ABSENT from it? Thanks

databank said:

errant said:

1) Okay, so not only are we using wikipedia as a source, we're now using the FRENCH wikipedia entry as a source? Tell me, did whoever speculated on that include a citation for a source? If you want to keep detailed information on this stuff, you don't use wikipedia as a source. No one has turned up true, independent research (a la The Vault, etc.) on it.

2) If I'm no mistaken, I belive it's Pat Lenoard, the producer and co-writer who claimed that Prince was left out of the album version. But I don't have link for that. It was stated in the days before the Internet. And I really don't care enough to track down the source.

3) He's barely on the 7" version with fade. That's the part that's faded out in the fade. His guitar part is only in the outro of the original 7" version.

[Edited 3/13/11 6:44am]

[Edited 3/13/11 6:45am]

Ok, fair enough. I'll try to make additionnal research asap, and Leonard might have considered the album intro as not being part of the song.

As for the 7 edit with fade, is Prince FADING on it, or completely ABSENT from it? Thanks

his part on the 7" with fade comes in just as you really can't hear anything any more. yeah, he's on there, i guess you could say, but it's the outro that his playing is on that's where the fade is. it starts fading during the final vocals and by the time his outro comes in, it's almost inaudible.

for that matter, there's not much of his playing in the regular 7" version either. it's only a few seconds longer and the fade starts when he does.

I don't know what to tell you folks. We dissected this over at HQ when it was still open, Every available version. The guitar part you want to hear appears in full on the "Extended Mix", and even more of his guitar appears on "Dub Beats" and "Club Mix", as well as "Act of Contrition".

[Edited 3/14/11 1:56am]

smokeverbs said:

I don't know what to tell you folks. We dissected this over at HQ when it was still open, Every available version. The guitar part you want to hear appears in full on the "Extended Mix", and even more of his guitar appears on "Dub Beats" and "Westside Mix", as well as "Act of Contrition".

I can't see any mix being called Westside Mix anywhere, where does this one originate from? R u sure it exists?

What did u Housequake guys conclude about the album version (and its intro)?

Thanks

databank said:

smokeverbs said:

I don't know what to tell you folks. We dissected this over at HQ when it was still open, Every available version. The guitar part you want to hear appears in full on the "Extended Mix", and even more of his guitar appears on "Dub Beats" and "Westside Mix", as well as "Act of Contrition".

I can't see any mix being called Westside Mix anywhere, where does this one originate from? R u sure it exists?

What did u Housequake guys conclude about the album version (and its intro)?

Thanks

My Bad, the label says "West Side" and "East Side" (Instead of Side A & B). I'm talking about the 12" Club Version. (and 7" Remix/Edit" - which is a shorter version of the same.). Note that I'm NOT referring to "Extended Dance Mix". I've edited my posts to reflect this.

[Edited 3/14/11 1:57am]

Can't help but think that Prince had more to do with "Keep It Together" than what is let on. Always think about this song when I hear "Lovesign". Kinda similar, musically. Maybe its just me.

scorp84 said:

Can't help but think that Prince had more to do with "Keep It Together" than what is let on. Always think about this song when I hear "Lovesign". Kinda similar, musically. Maybe its just me.

It's a definitive, documented, no.

smokeverbs said:

databank said:

I can't see any mix being called Westside Mix anywhere, where does this one originate from? R u sure it exists?

What did u Housequake guys conclude about the album version (and its intro)?

Thanks

My Bad, the label says "West Side" and "East Side" (Instead of Side A & B). I'm talking about the 12" Club Version. (and 7" Remix/Edit" - which is a shorter version of the same.). Note that I'm NOT referring to "Extended Dance Mix". I've edited my posts to reflect this.

[Edited 3/14/11 1:57am]

Ok

So what did u guys conclude on HQ about the album version and its intro, and on what account?

Thanks

xenophobia2002 said:

smokeverbs said:

There is also a promo mix out there called "Dub Beats" which has instrumentation from Prince, and a sample from Bob George.

Which is very interesting, as The Black Album was cancelled back in 1989, when Like A Prayer was released !!

Actually The Black Album was slated for release and cancelled in December 1987. Five months later, Lovesexy was released instead. In the Alphabet Street video, you can see a message saying something like "Please don't buy the black album..." hidden on his cane.

XNY said:

xenophobia2002 said:

Which is very interesting, as The Black Album was cancelled back in 1989, when Like A Prayer was released !!

Actually The Black Album was slated for release and cancelled in December 1987. Five months later, Lovesexy was released instead. In the Alphabet Street video, you can see a message saying something like "Please don't buy the black album..." hidden on his cane.

I think xenophobia2002 meant it had been cancelled by 1989, when LAP was released, can't see them not knowing a schoolboy error like that

NouveauDance said:

XNY said:

Actually The Black Album was slated for release and cancelled in December 1987. Five months later, Lovesexy was released instead. In the Alphabet Street video, you can see a message saying something like "Please don't buy the black album..." hidden on his cane.

I think xenophobia2002 meant it had been cancelled by 1989, when LAP was released, can't see them not knowing a schoolboy error like that

"Cancelled by 1989" or "was cancelled in 1989"...? That wouldn't make sense. But you're right, it seems too obvious of an error. How dare some Prince fan get those dates mixed up? "What are you? Stupid?" (Jill Jones, delivered by 2011, not in 2011).

scorp84 said:

Can't help but think that Prince had more to do with "Keep It Together" than what is let on. Always think about this song when I hear "Lovesign". Kinda similar, musically. Maybe its just me.

Maybe because KIT draws from Sly & The Family Stone, one of Prince's main influences?

databank said:

smokeverbs said:

My Bad, the label says "West Side" and "East Side" (Instead of Side A & B). I'm talking about the 12" Club Version. (and 7" Remix/Edit" - which is a shorter version of the same.). Note that I'm NOT referring to "Extended Dance Mix". I've edited my posts to reflect this.

[Edited 3/14/11 1:57am]

Ok

So what did u guys conclude on HQ about the album version and its intro, and on what account?

Thanks

Nothing. Notice how I didn't mention it?

NouveauDance said:

XNY said:

Actually The Black Album was slated for release and cancelled in December 1987. Five months later, Lovesexy was released instead. In the Alphabet Street video, you can see a message saying something like "Please don't buy the black album..." hidden on his cane.

I think xenophobia2002 meant it had been cancelled by 1989, when LAP was released, can't see them not knowing a schoolboy error like that

yep indeed, thanks for that ...

So, to explain, the dub beats remix had samples from Bob George, a song which had not yet been released, as it was cancelled for release in 1987.

So, as a matter of fact, Prince perhaps knew this song was going to be used, as he was working with Madonna back then, and had given her a 1987 Black Album

PS I am still looking for an original 1987 USA Black album to complete my collection !!

http://www.moquake.com/fo...amp;t=1501

http://prince.org/msg/9/353866

this CD is a must-have

1. "Like a Prayer" (12" dance mix) – 7:55
2. "Like a Prayer" (12" extended remix) – 7:26
3. "Like a Prayer" (Churchapella) – 6:09
4. "Like a Prayer" (12" club version)* – 6:38
5. "Like a Prayer" (7" remix/edit)* – 5:45
6. "Express Yourself" (Non-Stop Express Mix) – 8:01
7. "Express Yourself" (Stop & Go Dubs) – 10:52
8. "Express Yourself" (Local Mix) – 6:27

All remixed by Shep Pettibone, except (*) remixed by Bill Bottrell

SoulAlive said:

this CD is a must-have

1. "Like a Prayer" (12" dance mix) – 7:55
2. "Like a Prayer" (12" extended remix) – 7:26
3. "Like a Prayer" (Churchapella) – 6:09
4. "Like a Prayer" (12" club version)* – 6:38
5. "Like a Prayer" (7" remix/edit)* – 5:45
6. "Express Yourself" (Non-Stop Express Mix) – 8:01
7. "Express Yourself" (Stop & Go Dubs) – 10:52
8. "Express Yourself" (Local Mix) – 6:27

All remixed by Shep Pettibone, except (*) remixed by Bill Bottrell

Great Japan EP, one of the first I got when i became a fan. I miss these Japanese mini-albums.

That is an EXCELLENT collection of remixes.....one of the best remix EPs I ever purchased.

That's why the song is so "different," because P actually let Madonna write some of it..lol

mozfonky said:

errant said:

have you heard Erotica, Ray of Light or American Life?

no, wroter Madonna off after a point, but that album was great. The whole shock/image stuff put me off. How much credit should go to her for the music? I don't even know.

The music was actually good, Erotica & Bedtime Stories(?)

the latter being even more organic with production by Babyface very good album

the only 'shock/image' was Truth or Dare/Erotica album/Sex book

If you look at what was happening in society(USA) at the times it actually fit.

mozfonky said:

errant said:

have you heard Erotica, Ray of Light or American Life?

no, wroter Madonna off after a point, but that album was great. The whole shock/image stuff put me off. How much credit should go to her for the music? I don't even know.

+ Madonna is very much like Prince in that they are both 'in control' Madonna capitalized on her 'image' whereas Prince didn't always after the 1980's early 1990's

She makes money off her output where Prince doesn't...

She's also very much involved in the writing and creative process of the music, (and of course she's no pro, and she's very humble about it, but she plays guitar too)

rlittler81 said:

SoulAlive said:

this CD is a must-have

1. "Like a Prayer" (12" dance mix) – 7:55
2. "Like a Prayer" (12" extended remix) – 7:26
3. "Like a Prayer" (Churchapella) – 6:09
4. "Like a Prayer" (12" club version)* – 6:38
5. "Like a Prayer" (7" remix/edit)* – 5:45
6. "Express Yourself" (Non-Stop Express Mix) – 8:01
7. "Express Yourself" (Stop & Go Dubs) – 10:52
8. "Express Yourself" (Local Mix) – 6:27

All remixed by Shep Pettibone, except (*) remixed by Bill Bottrell

Great Japan EP, one of the first I got when i became a fan. I miss these Japanese mini-albums.

Boobies !!

smokeverbs said:

databank said:

Ok

So what did u guys conclude on HQ about the album version and its intro, and on what account?

Thanks

Nothing. Notice how I didn't mention it?

At least it means i ain't totally trippin' and if the HQ crew wasn't able to solve this, well... I probably won't either. I added an "involvement uncertain" note on my discog so everyone's happy

databank said:

smokeverbs said:

Nothing. Notice how I didn't mention it?

At least it means i ain't totally trippin' and if the HQ crew wasn't able to solve this, well... I probably won't either. I added an "involvement uncertain" note on my discog so everyone's happy

They probably didn't solve it because no one's ever had the notion to bring it up and claim that it was Prince. Aside from you. Not even the song's co-writer/producer, who was the source to begin with on the original information that brought to light Prince's (un-used) contributions to the album version.

I love this song. Like A Prayer was my first madonna cd. At the time I was about 8 years old. That and The Batman Soundtrack brought me into music. They both mean a lot to me.

smokeverbs said:

errant said:

databank said:

At least it means i ain't totally trippin' and if the HQ crew wasn't able to solve this, well... I probably won't either. I added an "involvement uncertain" note on my discog so everyone's happy

They probably didn't solve it because no one's ever had the notion to bring it up and claim that it was Prince. Aside from you. Not even the song's co-writer/producer, who was the source to begin with on the original information that brought to light Prince's (un-used) contributions to the album version.

That's not what he said so don't make him say what he hasn't. And no i ain't the only one ever bringing it up..

I'm not known to make personal theories into facts, i wouldn't handle a website such as mine if i didn't have an habit to triplecheck everything. Here there is a doubt, period. U might be right about it but there is a doubt remaining, period.