Maybe He should, in the words of Debo "STOP BEIN' A BITCH N' COME ON!!!", and let The Time have the name and put out that CD!!! And MAYBE JUST MAYBE karma will reverse itself!!!!

Now what time is it?????

leonche64 said:

Militant said:

That's a newspaper report. That information could have come from anywhere.

And I haven't been saying anything of the sort. As I've stated in damn near every post, I'm just speculating. But I do believe Prince has a plan and that there is MUCH, MUCH more to this story than meets the eye.

Yeah, and we know with the serious laws concerning libel in the U.K. that a newspaper will make up stories of this nature and print them without checking any facts. Do you read your own post? Go back and start from the first one.

Are you serious? That is hilarious. The UK is KNOWN FOR TELLING LIES ABOUT EVERYONE UNDER THE SUN. They've posted all kind of crap in newspapers and magazines that were blatant lies and they could never back up. There is no proof that they know what they are talking about.

Are these things public records in Ireland? Perhaps an Irish fan will oblige us and seek out the official court transcript..

[Edited 3/3/11 22:07pm]

He should pay his damned bills and clear this one!

Astasheiks said:

Looks like some City is definitely getting more concerts!

luv4u said:

He should pay his damned bills and clear this one!

Chiquetet said:

RubyButterfly said:

When it purple rains, it pours.

Although this is basically just the next installment of the same legal drama that he's had going on for some time right?

It does seem that it's a choice Prince makes, which is to not pay bills unless he absolutely has to (ie. should the court rule against him and make moves to take his house - which it almost certainly will not - then he'll pay up).

I don't think he actually gives much consideration to that side of things at all - I suspect we worry about it more than he does

I agree with you totally. I just think he should do a full on North American tour and then a small theater tour. Money, Money, Money!

luv4u said:

He should pay his damned bills and clear this one!

Right? Why the fuck are so many people here making excuses for the fact he didn't pay his bill? Why the fuck should the promoter be sat with that bill? THEY didn't cancel the event, HE did. It was HIS responsibility to play the show - HE didn't even give a damn reason for cancelling.

"Prince has a plan to work a loophole" blah fucking blah. No wonder the world is so fucked up.

Spinlight said:

luv4u said:

He should pay his damned bills and clear this one!

Right? Why the fuck are so many people here making excuses for the fact he didn't pay his bill? Why the fuck should the promoter be sat with that bill? THEY didn't cancel the event, HE did. It was HIS responsibility to play the show - HE didn't even give a damn reason for cancelling.

"Prince has a plan to work a loophole" blah fucking blah. No wonder the world is so fucked up.

Because there is another side to this story. I hear Prince had to give his approval for the date of the event and that he didn't want to come over to Europe for this single show. He apparently got mad when the tix went on sale as he was not sure of his schedule in Europe yet. He had asked them to wait and they did not as they were afraid of not not having enough time to sell the tix. So basically he agreed on playing Croke Park but not in these conditions. He warned the promoters to stop this mess and to reschedule the event.

Regarding the Law firm, I know shit about it. But lawyers can be really good at trying to screw their own clients as well.

Now I'm saying Prince is an angel but he lives in show business world = world of sharks ready for anything to make $$$$$$$$$$.

ohYeeeeeah said:

Spinlight said:

Right? Why the fuck are so many people here making excuses for the fact he didn't pay his bill? Why the fuck should the promoter be sat with that bill? THEY didn't cancel the event, HE did. It was HIS responsibility to play the show - HE didn't even give a damn reason for cancelling.

"Prince has a plan to work a loophole" blah fucking blah. No wonder the world is so fucked up.

Because there is another side to this story. I hear Prince had to give his approval for the date of the event and that he didn't want to come over to Europe for this single show. He apparently got mad when the tix went on sale as he was not sure of his schedule in Europe yet. He had asked them to wait and they did not as they were afraid of not not having enough time to sell the tix. So basically he agreed on playing Croke Park but not in these conditions. He warned the promoters to stop this mess and to reschedule the event.

Regarding the Law firm, I know shit about it. But lawyers can be really good at trying to screw their own clients as well.

Now I'm saying Prince is an angel but he lives in show business world = world of sharks ready for anything to make $$$$$$$$$$.

So we're questioning, then, whether there was a contract for the event? Do people really think Prince doesn't work with contracts? That's a lie he made up. He doesn't write contracts for his band members so they don't sue him in the end for contributions (why else would people not sue him for songs he ripped off). Logic tells one that he works with contracts when it comes to others.

wonder505 said:

I'm thinking at this point he may have a hard time hiring anyone to manage his money for fear they may not paid. yikes.!!! I hope it all works out.

Any whor...i mean lawyer will take your case as long as you pay a large retainer fee. They make a boat load of money before they even agree to be your legal counsel. I don't know the percentage in every case, but I had to pay about $350 upfront, and the total with fines was around $1200.

nelcp777 said:

kbarso said:

I doubt that Prince acutally pays bills himself. He has a staff of people that do it for him. Or in this case not for him. He needs to fire them and get a group togheter that knows how to do their jobs.

I would imagine that Prince's accountant has a limit to the amount of dollar value that can be "signed" without Prince's approval. That would just be good sense not to have large sums of money spent and then the account is dry. As for the ruling in Ireland, from what I learned in Business Law, and I will admit, this was a basic course, my Professor taught that international business law is complicated. In essence, the US does not have to honor the Irish ruling against Prince, and therefore liens and seizures cannot be conducted by a foriegn government in the US. The same can go the other way. Perhaps there is someone on the org who is involved in international business law to clarify this scenario. I am not trying to be a know it all, I am a junior in college majoring in accounting. I just thought I would share what I have been taught. As for the law firm that Prince owes 700 grand, that is a whole new can of worms.

[Edited 3/3/11 20:13pm]

This is incorrect. This is not a criminal case involving extradition. This is a business deal where one party defaulted on terms of a contract. Both the US and EU are members of the WTO. Your scenario would allow companies to just steal money and run off-shore over night. Thus a country has the ability to freeze the assets held in banks physically located in their jurisdiction and request other member governments to do the same. I am from the US and have been leaving here in China doing business for 10 years

.

.

the thing about this cancelled concert in dublin....there was stories on the housequake website (rip) that said weeks before the event that this concert would NOT happen so it wasnt a last minute decision by prince....it was known well before that this concert wouldnt happen ....that does make me wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye...

.

i ..of course...bought tickets and paid for flights but half expecting for it to be cancelled and...sure enough...it was.....wee shit !

This is a good discussion, we are all coming at it from different directions and it is interesting. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. Fact is, he was found liable for breaching a contract. Fact is, he has a track record of this type of behavior. These are facts, everything else is a guess. And the guesses ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous, they have been put forward. He is a world class musician, not a great businessman. Those of us who have been around since the beginning, remember all the attempts. The clothing line, the fan clubs, the web sites, the marketing, etc. The proof is in the pudding. People speculate about legal maneuvering, loopholes, strategies, to what end? How is this the right way to handle things? What path is he following? Who's "light" is he trying to shine in?

Trying to defend in indefensible.

DaphneLovesPR1NCE said:

leonche64 said:

Yeah, and we know with the serious laws concerning libel in the U.K. that a newspaper will make up stories of this nature and print them without checking any facts. Do you read your own post? Go back and start from the first one.

Are you serious? That is hilarious. The UK is KNOWN FOR TELLING LIES ABOUT EVERYONE UNDER THE SUN. They've posted all kind of crap in newspapers and magazines that were blatant lies and they could never back up. There is no proof that they know what they are talking about.

Are these things public records in Ireland? Perhaps an Irish fan will oblige us and seek out the official court transcript..

[Edited 3/3/11 22:07pm]

I don't know why it is hilarious. Check the Beckham lawsuits for libel against various newspapers. Check the definition of libel, and see why it is proposterous to say what you did.

Militant said:

As I've stated in damn near every post, I'm just speculating. But I do believe Prince has a plan and that there is MUCH, MUCH more to this story than meets the eye.

I ask again, what more is there then?

I mean if it is really so MUCH, MUCH as you keep on suggesting.

There's 2 sides 2 every story yet people love 2 take the bait and run with it.

ONIONHEADZ!

Tremolina said:

Militant said:

As I've stated in damn near every post, I'm just speculating. But I do believe Prince has a plan and that there is MUCH, MUCH more to this story than meets the eye.

I ask again, what more is there then?

The point is that we don't know right now.

But like Bob said, HQ reported the show wouldn't happen from DAY ONE.

I think the promoters jumped the gun and started selling tickets without fully having confirmed all the terms with Prince. So if he can prove that, he's all good.

Militant said:

Tremolina said:

I ask again, what more is there then?

The point is that we don't know right now.

But like Bob said, HQ reported the show wouldn't happen from DAY ONE.

I think the promoters jumped the gun and started selling tickets without fully having confirmed all the terms with Prince. So if he can prove that, he's all good.

He could not prove that, thus he lost the case.

"Dublin's Commercial Courts in February 2010 where it was settled after a four-day hearing, with the musician's legal team agreeing to pay over $2 million in damages and almost a million dollars in legal costs.However, the sum was never paid by the initial March 2010 deadline and Denis and MCD were then granted a European Enforcement Order Certificate allowing them to pursue Prince's assets under EU law"

The case was already tried, Prince settled. Then he just refused to pay the judgement, and his legal team. No rabbit to pull out of a hat, no last minute smoking gun.

[Edited 3/4/11 6:59am]

leonche64 said:

Militant said:

The point is that we don't know right now.

But like Bob said, HQ reported the show wouldn't happen from DAY ONE.

I think the promoters jumped the gun and started selling tickets without fully having confirmed all the terms with Prince. So if he can prove that, he's all good.

He could not prove that, thus he lost the case.

"Dublin's Commercial Courts in February 2010 where it was settled after a four-day hearing, with the musician's legal team agreeing to pay over $2 million in damages and almost a million dollars in legal costs.However, the sum was never paid by the initial March 2010 deadline and Denis and MCD were then granted a European Enforcement Order Certificate allowing them to pursue Prince's assets under EU law"

The case was already tried, Prince settled. Then he just refused to pay the judgement, and his legal team. No rabbit to pull out of a hat, no last minute smoking gun.

[Edited 3/4/11 6:59am]

I agree. Prince settled the case. He entered into an acceptable agreement to pay $3 million.

And then he didn't pay. That's simply it. There can be no more to it. He agreed to the settlement, and has so far reneged on his very own agreement.

There can be only two plausible reasons: (1) He doesn't have the money; or (2) He is not a man of his word. Even if the promoter went around after the settlement, telling his friends, "I got Prince! I got Prince! Hahahahahaha!" that is not grounds to dissolve a settlement.

This is NOT a dispute. Legally, the dispute was settled with an agreement.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

bigbrother said:

Lest we condemn Prince too rashly, don't forget that recently he gave a considerable amount of money to help disadvantaged kids in Harlem. This doesn't excuse his behaviour but to say he's a tight bastard is unfair IMO.

Exactly!!!! He will pay when he gets ready 2. LEAVE HIM ALONE PEOPLE! &

cough-tax write off, i do it to

leonche64 said:

This is a good discussion, we are all coming at it from different directions and it is interesting. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. Fact is, he was found liable for breaching a contract. Fact is, he has a track record of this type of behavior. These are facts, everything else is a guess. And the guesses ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous, they have been put forward. He is a world class musician, not a great businessman. Those of us who have been around since the beginning, remember all the attempts. The clothing line, the fan clubs, the web sites, the marketing, etc. The proof is in the pudding. People speculate about legal maneuvering, loopholes, strategies, to what end? How is this the right way to handle things? What path is he following? Who's "light" is he trying to shine in?

Trying to defend in indefensible.

Spot on.

I think some people are forgetting. Prince already lost the case in Dublin. He was at fault. Fact.

Now the fams are saying "Poor Princey, I'm sure he'll sort it out". But time and time again he shows utter disrespect for courts and laws in the very countries he chooses to do business. Yet he is fine with trying to tie his fans into deliberately vague contracts which benefit him.

I'm constantly amazed how many fams still try to defend him on this shit. I guess they have short memories or are not fans for a long period of time.

Opinion.....

I also find it strange that people assume he is so rich. Maybe he has been stashing it away, but I would seriously doubt that Prince has solid financial planning. He behaves like someone selling 10 million albums a year but he isn't even in the top division.

This is the guy they that sold his soul to WB in 1992 so save himeself from bankruptcy, then turned against the very people that bailed him out.

Very few pop stars are as rich as the headlines make out.

Its only really concert sales keeping Prince afloat these days, and the net revenue on these are never as high as people think when you build in transport, insurance, construction, setup and marketing. And if the promotor picks that up, then the promotor takes a lot bigger slice of the pie.

He nearly lost Paisley Park on two occasions in the past, and that was when he was selling millions of records and seats. Coupled with his houses, private jet hire, massive hotel expenses and entourage, Prince is never going to have the type of money that can sustain him as the years get leaner. Even if he had a stash from 2004, he would have worn that down and then some. 21 nights in london probably netted him £5m, but his costs for a year probably swallowed that up without a second thought.

And that is just talking about value, not cash flow. Thats a very different thing. Most Multi millionaires rarely have more that a couple of million in cash. Most companies that go under do not go under throughg lack of sales, they go under due to mismanagment of cash flow.

P is quickly heading the way of Little Richard. Worst of all, he is burning industry bridges at an alarming rate. He'll be fine while he can slap a few shows on in a selection of choice cities, but in 10 years time, when prince will be an old man, it will be a very different story.

SquirrelMeat said:

[everything you said]

Excellent thoughts. Scary, but excellent.

C'mon Prince... grab a brain, man!

P donates to charity. Nice, but irrelevant for this lost court case about a concert non-appearance.

He has to pay his bills first.

If something's left after taht he can donate to charity.

Not the other way round.

That's the way it works for us.

That's the way it works for him, in the long run.

He's most probably aware of this issue.

He has the money, in one way or another.

So what stops him from paying?

What is his networth?

Im sure he will be alright.

SquirrelMeat said:

leonche64 said:

This is a good discussion, we are all coming at it from different directions and it is interesting. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts. Fact is, he was found liable for breaching a contract. Fact is, he has a track record of this type of behavior. These are facts, everything else is a guess. And the guesses ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous, they have been put forward. He is a world class musician, not a great businessman. Those of us who have been around since the beginning, remember all the attempts. The clothing line, the fan clubs, the web sites, the marketing, etc. The proof is in the pudding. People speculate about legal maneuvering, loopholes, strategies, to what end? How is this the right way to handle things? What path is he following? Who's "light" is he trying to shine in?

Trying to defend in indefensible.

Spot on.

I think some people are forgetting. Prince already lost the case in Dublin. He was at fault. Fact.

Now the fams are saying "Poor Princey, I'm sure he'll sort it out". But time and time again he shows utter disrespect for courts and laws in the very countries he chooses to do business. Yet he is fine with trying to tie his fans into deliberately vague contracts which benefit him.

I'm constantly amazed how many fams still try to defend him on this shit. I guess they have short memories or are not fans for a long period of time.

Opinion.....

I also find it strange that people assume he is so rich. Maybe he has been stashing it away, but I would seriously doubt that Prince has solid financial planning. He behaves like someone selling 10 million albums a year but he isn't even in the top division.

This is the guy they that sold his soul to WB in 1992 so save himeself from bankruptcy, then turned against the very people that bailed him out.

Very few pop stars are as rich as the headlines make out.

Its only really concert sales keeping Prince afloat these days, and the net revenue on these are never as high as people think when you build in transport, insurance, construction, setup and marketing. And if the promotor picks that up, then the promotor takes a lot bigger slice of the pie.

He nearly lost Paisley Park on two occasions in the past, and that was when he was selling millions of records and seats. Coupled with his houses, private jet hire, massive hotel expenses and entourage, Prince is never going to have the type of money that can sustain him as the years get leaner. Even if he had a stash from 2004, he would have worn that down and then some. 21 nights in london probably netted him £5m, but his costs for a year probably swallowed that up without a second thought.

And that is just talking about value, not cash flow. Thats a very different thing. Most Multi millionaires rarely have more that a couple of million in cash. Most companies that go under do not go under throughg lack of sales, they go under due to mismanagment of cash flow.

P is quickly heading the way of Little Richard. Worst of all, he is burning industry bridges at an alarming rate. He'll be fine while he can slap a few shows on in a selection of choice cities, but in 10 years time, when prince will be an old man, it will be a very different story.

i am not defending him....i am just trying to understand his logic in all this...

.

i do disagree with you on how much he must be worth...i doubt that prince is down to his last 100 million...remember he doesnt have the record company middle man any more...his cut of album sales must be as high as any major artist around ...his back catalogue must be worth millions a year and if he ever was stuck for money...his concerts must make him millions even after overheads are covered because he doesnt have the overheads of other major artists because he only employs people now he really needs to operate....

.

i think he is just a little shit who doesnt like paying bills...he has a long history of it going back to the 80s.....he will pay up when he has to....

.

.

just as a footnote....i would imagine that prince made more from lotusflower cd and downloads than some other big artist who sold 4 times as many cds...the record companies do take a big slice remember....

[Edited 3/4/11 8:43am]

blackbob said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Spot on.

I think some people are forgetting. Prince already lost the case in Dublin. He was at fault. Fact.

Now the fams are saying "Poor Princey, I'm sure he'll sort it out". But time and time again he shows utter disrespect for courts and laws in the very countries he chooses to do business. Yet he is fine with trying to tie his fans into deliberately vague contracts which benefit him.

I'm constantly amazed how many fams still try to defend him on this shit. I guess they have short memories or are not fans for a long period of time.

Opinion.....

I also find it strange that people assume he is so rich. Maybe he has been stashing it away, but I would seriously doubt that Prince has solid financial planning. He behaves like someone selling 10 million albums a year but he isn't even in the top division.

This is the guy they that sold his soul to WB in 1992 so save himeself from bankruptcy, then turned against the very people that bailed him out.

Very few pop stars are as rich as the headlines make out.

Its only really concert sales keeping Prince afloat these days, and the net revenue on these are never as high as people think when you build in transport, insurance, construction, setup and marketing. And if the promotor picks that up, then the promotor takes a lot bigger slice of the pie.

He nearly lost Paisley Park on two occasions in the past, and that was when he was selling millions of records and seats. Coupled with his houses, private jet hire, massive hotel expenses and entourage, Prince is never going to have the type of money that can sustain him as the years get leaner. Even if he had a stash from 2004, he would have worn that down and then some. 21 nights in london probably netted him £5m, but his costs for a year probably swallowed that up without a second thought.

And that is just talking about value, not cash flow. Thats a very different thing. Most Multi millionaires rarely have more that a couple of million in cash. Most companies that go under do not go under throughg lack of sales, they go under due to mismanagment of cash flow.

P is quickly heading the way of Little Richard. Worst of all, he is burning industry bridges at an alarming rate. He'll be fine while he can slap a few shows on in a selection of choice cities, but in 10 years time, when prince will be an old man, it will be a very different story.

i am not defending him....i am just trying to understand his logic in all this...

.

i do disagree with you on how much he must be worth...i doubt that prince is down to his last 100 million...remember he doesnt have the record company middle man any more...his cut of album sales must be as high as any major artist around ...his back catalogue must be worth millions a year and if he ever was stuck for money...his concerts must make him millions even after overheads are covered because he doesnt have the overheads of other major artists because he only employs people now he really needs to operate....

.

i think he is just a little shit who doesnt like paying bills...he has a long history of it going back to the 80s.....he will pay up when he has to....

.

.

just as a footnote....i would imagine that prince made more from lotusflower cd and downloads than some other big artist who sold 4 times as many cds...the record companies do take a big slice remember....

[Edited 3/4/11 8:43am]

I agree with you on the cut he makes, but how much is a cut of "sod all"?

Joking aside, LF ended up in the bins. If he sold 100,000, and took a $5 cut, as opposed the the old $1 WB cut, he would still only make $5m gross, and he has yet to factor in studio and engineering costs, even if the majoirty was done at Paisley. Then there is the tax man.

The albums have been selling really poorly. I think theat why he had to change direction. The Planet Earth deal netted him in the region of half a mill. 20Ten probably about the same. Peanuts in the overall scheme of things.

Prince's main income has to be concerts now, and he has only got a few years left in him to pull in the mega buck on those.

Sure he will still be going at 70 with a "Revue" show on the small venue curcuit, but unless he curbs the behaviour and lifestyle, he'll be in a sad place.

Hope I'm wrong.

he sold half a million copies of lotusflower in the us alone....not including online sales ..thats more than respectable looking at other artists...he outsold bon jovi's last album...and he gets a far bigger cut than they do...

.

all albums are selling poorly...

.

his paybill cant be anywhere near what it used to be....he is a tightarse ...i dont think prince is anywhere near going broke.....maybe in the early 90s he had problems when he was getting 10 per cent but now he is getting something like 50 per cent of everything ....

.

he aint paying because he cant....its because he doesnt want to...

.

didnt he just give away a million dollars to charity the other week...??...not the actions of someone who doesnt have a few quid...

jpnyc said:

skywalker said:

Correct me if I am wrong. I thought MJ didn't "lose" Neverland, but just let it go after vowing to never return.

I’m sure it was very comforting for him to think about it that way.

What I mean is that no one took it from him, he simply left and let it go into foreclosure.

SquirrelMeat said:

Spot on.

I think some people are forgetting. Prince already lost the case in Dublin. He was at fault. Fact.

Being at fault and losing a case is 2 different stories! Just because 1 judge in Dublin ruled against him doesn't mean its over! He can still appeal and change his mind about an agreement his lawyers made for him. He wasn't even present which can easily be used as his excuse for backing out of the terms. Just because someone represents you doesn't mean they can make a decision for you and then you are expected to follow it, you can dispute the claims. Which is what I think Prince may be up to...which is why he isn't paying the very law firm that represented him. Smart man.