independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Prince fan community site
URL: http://prince.org/msg/7/274580/
Date printed: Sat 21st Nov 2009 1:47pm PST
| Author | Message |
Prince article in Bitch magazine Hear this, folks. Bitch magazine is singing the praises of Prince. Well, sort of, anyway.
We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
Mods: Can we get some kind of notice on the front page for this? Pretty please? We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
meow85 said: Here this, folks. Bitch magazine is singing the praises of Prince. Well, sort of, anyway.
http://www.bitchmagazine.org/ Their website doesn't link to the piece as far as I can see, but the current issue, "The Genesis Issue" features a 5-page article discussing Prince's kinda-sorta status as one of the only male rockstars that can be said with any level of seriousness to have a feminist slant. They do of course address his inconsistencies and hypocrisies, as they should, but the article is more or less pro-purple. I highly recommend the read, for any Prince fan male or female, but especially those who like to delve a little deeper into the man's career than commenting on how cute his ass is. 
Almost make it sound like a bad thing. That's a very interesting topic though, any chance of a scan? I've never heard of this magazine before, I wish I had, though... [Edited 6/25/08 23:10pm] Dig my random little art gallery http://dovescryforme.devi...m/gallery/
Avatar credit:Princefams |
ToraToraDreams said: meow85 said: Here this, folks. Bitch magazine is singing the praises of Prince. Well, sort of, anyway.
http://www.bitchmagazine.org/ Their website doesn't link to the piece as far as I can see, but the current issue, "The Genesis Issue" features a 5-page article discussing Prince's kinda-sorta status as one of the only male rockstars that can be said with any level of seriousness to have a feminist slant. They do of course address his inconsistencies and hypocrisies, as they should, but the article is more or less pro-purple. I highly recommend the read, for any Prince fan male or female, but especially those who like to delve a little deeper into the man's career than commenting on how cute his ass is.
Almost make it sound like a bad thing. That's a very interesting topic though, any chance of a scan? I've never heard of this magazine before, I wish I had, though... [Edited 6/25/08 23:10pm] My scanner's a bit gimp, but I'm trying to get it to work as I type.  We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
And here we are:
We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
One of the interesting features of this article to me is that it's written by a man.
We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
Never heard of this mag.
4EVER ~ ~ |
|
I don't think it's complimentary to Prince, and something tells me he wouldn't either. |
That was a pretty good read. The artwork is great too.
|
Dayclear said: I don't think it's complimentary to Prince, and something tells me he wouldn't either.
 You must not have read Prince's article in Guitar magazine, his views on women HAVE changed of late.I haven't read the article, but I am aware of his recent, and rather unfortunate, change of tune. The writer of this article and, I'm assuming, the magazine is as well. I'm curious though, why don't you think this would be complimentary? I read the entire article a few times today, and I think it comes off more positively than anything else, in spite of the rightly deserved criticisms. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
NouveauDance said: That was a pretty good read. The artwork is great too.
I thought they might've ripped into TRC a little bit more, all the 'theocratic order' stuff for starters. I would've thought so, but at least it was mentioned. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
|
meow85 said: Dayclear said: I don't think it's complimentary to Prince, and something tells me he wouldn't either.
You must not have read Prince's article in Guitar magazine, his views on women HAVE changed of late.I haven't read the article, but I am aware of his recent, and rather unfortunate, change of tune. The writer of this article and, I'm assuming, the magazine is as well. I'm curious though, why don't you think this would be complimentary? I read the entire article a few times today, and I think it comes off more positively than anything else, in spite of the rightly deserved criticisms. My mistake the magazine is called 'Giant', the august/september 2007 issue. Where Prince sounds Very chauvanistic to me saying As men we're supposed to be humble. The ones that can't admit that are the ones that fall because they're caught up in worldly things like WOMEN, SEX and drugs. The bible is like the guidebook to help men and women with their sins. If I'm going to get some advice, wouldn't I want it from Solomon? That man had a thousand wives. I mean, I want to talk to the guy who had a thousand women! Now that does not sound like the statement of a man that understands women. He called us 'WORLDLY THINGS'  [Edited 6/26/08 4:40am] |
I have never heard of this magazine, and I am sure the article is somewhat interesting to read...however, I do not believe that Prince is a feminist...I believe that Prince appreciates women and their career endeavors, although I do believe that Prince would prefer to have a wife at home that cares for him and his household, while he went out to earn the bread.
Last Night, I spent another lonely Christmas...Darlin' Darlin' U shoulda been there.~Prince. |
Dayclear said: meow85 said: I haven't read the article, but I am aware of his recent, and rather unfortunate, change of tune. The writer of this article and, I'm assuming, the magazine is as well. I'm curious though, why don't you think this would be complimentary? I read the entire article a few times today, and I think it comes off more positively than anything else, in spite of the rightly deserved criticisms. My mistake the magazine is called 'Giant', the august/september 2007 issue. Where Prince sounds Very chauvanistic to me saying As men we're supposed to be humble. The ones that can't admit that are the ones that fall because they're caught up in worldly things like WOMEN, SEX and drugs. The bible is like the guidebook to help men and women with their sins. If I'm going to get some advice, wouldn't I want it from Solomon? That man had a thousand wives. I mean, I want to talk to the guy who had a thousand women! Now that does not sound like the statement of a man that understands women. He called us 'WORLDLY THINGS'
[Edited 6/26/08 4:40am] I think youve misinterpreted 'worldly things' in the context of that quote prince is referring to lusts and desires of the flesh as opposed to things of the spirit. Using the word women merely represents sex in general as being a worldly part of mankind. Prince has indicated that he has an interest in the psyche of women, why wouldnt he want to talk to soloman. The idea being any man who had so many wives must have learned something about them. I dont see how that statement was chauvanistic. he is talking as a man about mankind. Unless of course you find the term man to be chauvanistic and perhps he should have said 'peoplekind'. walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous |
I really loved reading that, thanks! |
the typography looks interesting in that mag shame they drew him with flat boots tho!! walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous |
meow85 said: Mods: Can we get some kind of notice on the front page for this? Pretty please?
 dipdiddlyDONE.  |
Our very own SNAKEPEEL wrote that! Measure in Love
Now the Lord is sayin' to me, "Whitey, Please..." |
applekisses said: Our very own SNAKEPEEL wrote that!
I'm so, so proud of him. Thanks, you guys, for posting this. I'm going to send him the URL to the thread. He's going to be thrilled. OMG, really Congrats, SnakePeel 
I saw "Bitch Magazine" in Borders the other day when I was looking for Jet Magazine. I chuckled when I saw it, but didn't pick it up to leaf through it.Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
applekisses said: Our very own SNAKEPEEL wrote that!
I'm so, so proud of him. Thanks, you guys, for posting this. I'm going to send him the URL to the thread. He's going to be thrilled. That's awesome! I would credit Snakey on the front page, but I don't want to compromise anyone's Orgnonymity. |
The drawing of Prince is pretty cool too. Is anybody else having trouble reading what's written in the balloon thingies, or is it just me? Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
Anxiety said: applekisses said: Our very own SNAKEPEEL wrote that!
I'm so, so proud of him. Thanks, you guys, for posting this. I'm going to send him the URL to the thread. He's going to be thrilled. That's awesome! I would credit Snakey on the front page, but I don't want to compromise anyone's Orgnonymity. Sigh...g'head. Considering Apples outed me  .jasonwebber.blogspot.com |
SnakePeel said: Anxiety said: That's awesome! I would credit Snakey on the front page, but I don't want to compromise anyone's Orgnonymity. Sigh...g'head. Considering Apples outed me . Congrats!!!!!Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
SnakePeel said: Anxiety said: That's awesome! I would credit Snakey on the front page, but I don't want to compromise anyone's Orgnonymity. Sigh...g'head. Considering Apples outed me .done deal! |
SnakePeel said: Anxiety said: That's awesome! I would credit Snakey on the front page, but I don't want to compromise anyone's Orgnonymity. Sigh...g'head. Considering Apples outed me . Sorreeey! I'm just proud of you dorkwad!Measure in Love
Now the Lord is sayin' to me, "Whitey, Please..." |
applekisses said: SnakePeel said: Sigh...g'head. Considering Apples outed me . Sorreeey! I'm just proud of you dorkwad!Me too. Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
Interesting that there is NO mention of the fact that his bands have always featured women in prominent roles...
|
syble said: Dayclear said: My mistake the magazine is called 'Giant', the august/september 2007 issue. Where Prince sounds Very chauvanistic to me saying As men we're supposed to be humble. The ones that can't admit that are the ones that fall because they're caught up in worldly things like WOMEN, SEX and drugs. The bible is like the guidebook to help men and women with their sins. If I'm going to get some advice, wouldn't I want it from Solomon? That man had a thousand wives. I mean, I want to talk to the guy who had a thousand women! Now that does not sound like the statement of a man that understands women. He called us 'WORLDLY THINGS'
[Edited 6/26/08 4:40am] I think youve misinterpreted 'worldly things' in the context of that quote prince is referring to lusts and desires of the flesh as opposed to things of the spirit. Using the word women merely represents sex in general as being a worldly part of mankind. Prince has indicated that he has an interest in the psyche of women, why wouldnt he want to talk to soloman. The idea being any man who had so many wives must have learned something about them. I dont see how that statement was chauvanistic. he is talking as a man about mankind. Unless of course you find the term man to be chauvanistic and perhps he should have said 'peoplekind'. I was about to say that. Good thing I read your post before repeating everything you said. Women! Stop being sooooo sensitive and read between the lines. may u live 2 see the dawn |
Giovanni777 said: Interesting that there is NO mention of the fact that his bands have always featured women in prominent roles...
Gayle Lisa Wendy Sheila Cat Boni Rosie Rhonda Cora How many male-fronted bands in Rock, Funk, etc., have had a female drummer? that's a good point...though i have a feeling if you tried to write a comprehensive review of prince's gender politics, it could fill a book. and i would totally buy that book and devour it.  |
I loved that article. Thanx for posting
Giovanni777 said: Interesting that there is NO mention of the fact that his bands have always featured women in prominent roles...
Gayle Lisa Wendy Sheila Cat Boni Rosie Rhonda Cora How many male-fronted bands in Rock, Funk, etc., have had a female drummer? I've noticed that too, good point. Dig my random little art gallery http://dovescryforme.devi...m/gallery/
Avatar credit:Princefams |
Tame said: I have never heard of this magazine, and I am sure the article is somewhat interesting to read...however, I do not believe that Prince is a feminist...I believe that Prince appreciates women and their career endeavors, although I do believe that Prince would prefer to have a wife at home that cares for him and his household, while he went out to earn the bread.
I believe in most cases, not all, that structured society, depends on these roles. I am all for single women making as much money as men in the same positions, and I definitely believe woman are equally talented...However, I also believe that women are more suited for raising children, and caring for a household and a man, than the other way around. In a family structure, where a man and a woman are married...Outside of that concept...either a man or a woman is capable of either role. I agree wholeheartly with you. Prince gives me impression that he loves women and prefersp a woman with a career as opposed to a careerwoman. Perfect example, Michelle Obama. I don't think Mani had a career...she was educated yes, but not a careerwoman. I am not a feminist. I believe in equality between the sexes...although I believe that between two people...it is apparent, which position belongs to whom. Lemme |
Giovanni777 said: Interesting that there is NO mention of the fact that his bands have always featured women in prominent roles...
Gayle Lisa Wendy Sheila Cat Boni Rosie Rhonda Cora How many male-fronted bands in Rock, Funk, etc., have had a female drummer? Don't keep up on these things, and no props taken from Prince, but doesn't or didn't Kid Rock have a female drummer? Never again, not I. |
Tame said: I have never heard of this magazine, and I am sure the article is somewhat interesting to read...however, I do not believe that Prince is a feminist...I believe that Prince appreciates women and their career endeavors, although I do believe that Prince would prefer to have a wife at home that cares for him and his household, while he went out to earn the bread.
I believe in most cases, not all, that structured society, depends on these roles. I am all for single women making as much money as men in the same positions, and I definitely believe woman are equally talented...However, I also believe that women are more suited for raising children, and caring for a household and a man, than the other way around. In a family structure, where a man and a woman are married...Outside of that concept...either a man or a woman is capable of either role. I am not a feminist. I believe in equality between the sexes...although I believe that between two people...it is apparent, which position belongs to whom. But that, dear, is the definition of a feminist. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
applekisses said: Our very own SNAKEPEEL wrote that!
I'm so, so proud of him. Thanks, you guys, for posting this. I'm going to send him the URL to the thread. He's going to be thrilled. Really? Neat! The tone of the article makes it obvious it's written by someone with a strong familiarity with the subject. That is, a fan. But it didn't even occur to me it might be one of us. Go Snakepeel! We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
psychodelicide said: The drawing of Prince is pretty cool too. Is anybody else having trouble reading what's written in the balloon thingies, or is it just me?
It's not just you. It's kinda hard to read even on the page. I think that was on purpose. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
Anxiety said: Giovanni777 said: Interesting that there is NO mention of the fact that his bands have always featured women in prominent roles...
Gayle Lisa Wendy Sheila Cat Boni Rosie Rhonda Cora How many male-fronted bands in Rock, Funk, etc., have had a female drummer? that's a good point...though i have a feeling if you tried to write a comprehensive review of prince's gender politics, it could fill a book. and i would totally buy that book and devour it. I would love to read a book like that. One of the things that's always interested me about Prince and what drew me to him initially as an artist and not just another dude on the radio is his, let's say unique, approach to gender and sexuality. In fact, I actually believe that given the number of people who felt drawn to the man for similar reasons, it's his recent perceived about-face that's led to the disappointment felt by a lot of longtime fans, more than any other factor. A lot of people became fans out of casual listeners because Prince was broadcasting a message of sexual and gender freedom not done by any other male performer. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
meow85 said: psychodelicide said: The drawing of Prince is pretty cool too. Is anybody else having trouble reading what's written in the balloon thingies, or is it just me?
It's not just you. It's kinda hard to read even on the page. I think that was on purpose. Okay, whew, glad it wasn't just me.  Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
Very well put and well thought out article. Almost reads like a treatment for
|
meow85 said: And here we are:
 i like the illustration but it doesn't do any justice 2 his amazing arse.. male feminist... it's true! |
I was surprised when I opened the latest Bitch and found a Prince article. B. is a good mag, if you like Bitch you might like BUST.
Love wins. (Seen on bumpersticker) |
Is Bitch a US title? where is it sold Ive never come across it.
walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous |
http://bitchmagazine.org/
syble said: Is Bitch a US title? where is it sold Ive never come across it.
Is it a music mag or what? Love wins. (Seen on bumpersticker) |
Does it have a website?
walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous |
http://bitchmagazine.org/
syble said: Does it have a website?
I am very interested in the typography used, it looks like a good magazine, theres so much trash around these days with poor layouts etc etc It was good to see an article with a sense of style from the old school of graphics! Love wins. (Seen on bumpersticker) |
Thanks Rozilla thats a very interesting site! walk with crooked shoes www.myspace/syblepurplelishous |
|
prince wrote a song called "good pussy"?? Whats the matter with your sex? Is fifteen minutes your best? |
meow85 said: And here we are:
my balloon-thingy transcription: "if i was your girlfriend would you remember to tell me all the things you forgot when I was your man?" "a woman everyday should be thanked" "who can find a virtuous woman her price is above rubies" (reference to Proverbs 31, btw)  |
thanks for sharing the interesting article meow85, your kindness and time and effort is very appreciated. =) "All of me  give 2 thee down at your feet ...
The reassurance in your rhythm speaks 2 me." -------------------------------------------------------- "I wanna hold U, wrap U up in lace. And I wanna kiss U, kiss U all over your face." |
greyhoodiegirl said: prince wrote a song called "good pussy"??
i never heard of this track either.... maybe it's just a complete mistake and the writer meant "scarlet". EDIT: oops "Good Pussy" is an 1994 outtake [Edited 6/27/08 12:42pm] "All of me give 2 thee down at your feet ...
The reassurance in your rhythm speaks 2 me." -------------------------------------------------------- "I wanna hold U, wrap U up in lace. And I wanna kiss U, kiss U all over your face." |
rozilla said: I was surprised when I opened the latest Bitch and found a Prince article. B. is a good mag, if you like Bitch you might like BUST.
I agree that the writer hadn't done all of his homework, though he did have some interesting insight. I don't know Prince, just his music. However, I have always felt that he is a man who really loves women. And ofcourse he has harmed women, men too. Everyone has hurt everyone in love, sometime. I don't want to sound like a R.E.M. song but from my experience it is true. Some women would find it controlling to have their man design their clothes but he seems down with what looks flattering on the individual female body. I would be all for a Prince makeover. I don't think that came out right, a platonic Prince makeover. Anyways, hooray for Prince in Bitch mag and I will be writing them a letter Thanking them for the article. I wrote a letter of thanks too.
Never heard of Bust. Is it available for sale in Canada? We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
|
OceanOfViolets said: greyhoodiegirl said: prince wrote a song called "good pussy"??
i never heard of this track either.... maybe it's just a complete mistake and the writer meant "scarlet". EDIT: oops "Good Pussy" is an 1994 outtake [Edited 6/27/08 12:42pm] Don't have this track, but now I wanna hear it. Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
GoldiLocks said: meow85 said: And here we are:
my balloon-thingy transcription: "if i was your girlfriend would you remember to tell me all the things you forgot when I was your man?" "a woman everyday should be thanked" "who can find a virtuous woman her price is above rubies" (reference to Proverbs 31, btw) Thanks, Goldilocks! Irish Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to hell, and having them look forward to the trip.
My give a damn is busted. |
Giovanni777 said: Interesting that there is NO mention of the fact that his bands have always featured women in prominent roles...
Gayle Lisa Wendy Sheila Cat Boni Rosie Rhonda Cora How many male-fronted bands in Rock, Funk, etc., have had a female drummer? And Candy. What a great point you make! Plus all the magnificent performers of Prince music: Mavis Staples,Alicia Keys, sorry, my mind drifts off to the performances at Paisley!!!! Erykah Badu, Alisson, soooo many more! |
Awesome. |
meow85 said: rozilla said: I was surprised when I opened the latest Bitch and found a Prince article. B. is a good mag, if you like Bitch you might like BUST.
I agree that the writer hadn't done all of his homework, though he did have some interesting insight. I don't know Prince, just his music. However, I have always felt that he is a man who really loves women. And ofcourse he has harmed women, men too. Everyone has hurt everyone in love, sometime. I don't want to sound like a R.E.M. song but from my experience it is true. Some women would find it controlling to have their man design their clothes but he seems down with what looks flattering on the individual female body. I would be all for a Prince makeover. I don't think that came out right, a platonic Prince makeover. Anyways, hooray for Prince in Bitch mag and I will be writing them a letter Thanking them for the article. I wrote a letter of thanks too.
Never heard of Bust. Is it available for sale in Canada? Bust is good, it's a bit lighter and more commercial friendly. It's not quite feminist, but it's more like a less-shitty woman-positive version of 17 or Cosmo. |
we're ONE but we're not the same, LOVE is the higher law let me come over it's a beautiful day to play with you in the dark http://elmadartista.tumblr.com/ http://twitter.com/madartista |
I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
|
I don't know the man so I can't really have an informed view, but based on the lyrics, my take on Prince's attitude to women is that it seems to be based on a patriarchal way of thinking/mentality. |
Interesting read, well-written... the fact that Prince always included women in his bands from the start was very inspiring to me. Not only as background singers/dancers (like most rock/pop acts), but women playing instruments! When compared to other groups from the 80s and to the present time, he's always been farther ahead in his willingness to feature women, and confront/deal with gender issues in a mostly positive way. we're like two petals from the same flower, baby... |
ThreadBare said: I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
In more recent years, he has still constructed a world in which he exerts control over women -- this time through religious instruction (given, of course, by him). His statement about Solomon exemplifies this. He, in the end, wants to talk to a man who had countless wives and concubines. Not his first reference to Solomon, mind you ("Big Fun"). Again, the reference to Solomon seems less about an attempt to understand women as equals and more about reducing Solomon to a kind of pimp and his ability to "pull" that many women. To be fair, a lot of Prince's lyrics about women do talk about feelings and emotions (though many that do are about how Prince has been victimized somehow). Again, anyone who sees him as a feminist has been viewing Prince's career with one eye open and the other mostly cracked. Oh? bell hooks has spoken at length about Prince and his often female-empowering perspective, calling him "the only man I would ever go on a date with." Similarly, Naomi Wolfe, Kathy Acker, Ani DiFranco and other feminist icons have all expressed admiration towards Prince's slightly feminist attitude. Music is still very much a boys club, and with the exception of Kurt Cobain and the Beastie Boys how many male artists have ever espoused any feminist ideas? The point of the article is NOT to paint Prince as a feminist--which he clearly is not--but to acknowledge that he is quite the possibly the only male musical artist to even come within range of earning the title. Prince is the biggest contradiction in music--misogynistic and female-empowering at the same time. This is what fascinates us...and frustrates us. jasonwebber.blogspot.com |
ThreadBare said: I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
In more recent years, he has still constructed a world in which he exerts control over women -- this time through religious instruction (given, of course, by him). His statement about Solomon exemplifies this. He, in the end, wants to talk to a man who had countless wives and concubines. Not his first reference to Solomon, mind you ("Big Fun"). Again, the reference to Solomon seems less about an attempt to understand women as equals and more about reducing Solomon to a kind of pimp and his ability to "pull" that many women. To be fair, a lot of Prince's lyrics about women do talk about feelings and emotions (though many that do are about how Prince has been victimized somehow). Again, anyone who sees him as a feminist has been viewing Prince's career with one eye open and the other mostly cracked. Very well said! I think Prince tries to have a better understanding of women through his music and he does champion great female musicians to his credit, but I 100% agree with you. Prince is a very controlling man when it comes to women because deep down he's an very insecure man. "Strange Relationship" says it all "I didn't like the way you were, so I had to make you mine". Even if he is talking religion...in the end the woman has to be what he thinks she should be. He's got that Madonna/ Whore complex Baaaaaddd! I think he totally objectifies women instead of dealing with them for who they really are. Great musician, great performer, he may even be a cool person on certain levels, but I'd never call him a feminist. |
ohmygodohmygod thank you for reminding me!!! i really have to look to see if i can find a copy of this mag here. i want to be able to hold it in my very own hands! but thanks for the scans meow!
 be a blood donor... the most wonderful gift
I was hoping to dress something like Prince. toned down a bit like Prince if he was just going to the zoo or the supermarket... casual Prince! |
SnakePeel said: ThreadBare said: I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
In more recent years, he has still constructed a world in which he exerts control over women -- this time through religious instruction (given, of course, by him). His statement about Solomon exemplifies this. He, in the end, wants to talk to a man who had countless wives and concubines. Not his first reference to Solomon, mind you ("Big Fun"). Again, the reference to Solomon seems less about an attempt to understand women as equals and more about reducing Solomon to a kind of pimp and his ability to "pull" that many women. To be fair, a lot of Prince's lyrics about women do talk about feelings and emotions (though many that do are about how Prince has been victimized somehow). Again, anyone who sees him as a feminist has been viewing Prince's career with one eye open and the other mostly cracked. Oh? bell hooks has spoken at length about Prince and his often female-empowering perspective, calling him "the only man I would ever go on a date with." Similarly, Naomi Wolfe, Kathy Acker, Ani DiFranco and other feminist icons have all expressed admiration towards Prince's slightly feminist attitude. Music is still very much a boys club, and with the exception of Kurt Cobain and the Beastie Boys how many male artists have ever espoused any feminist ideas? The point of the article is NOT to paint Prince as a feminist--which he clearly is not--but to acknowledge that he is quite the possibly the only male musical artist to even come within range of earning the title. Prince is the biggest contradiction in music--misogynistic and female-empowering at the same time. This is what fascinates us...and frustrates us. He's likely been very supportive to Ani, in that they've much in common as artists and instrumentalists. I think people do a disservice to real feminism when they stretch the label to make him out as a feminist. There's no way you could have such a consistently misogynist artist and make him out to be a feminist. It pays lipservice to the fight for gender equality, IMO, and dismisses all the energy Prince has put into objectifying women throughout his career. Even now, Prince the "feminist" has adopted an "old pimp" image in recent years. Glad he's encouraged female artists... but there's a larger picture. It's like saying Strom Thurmond's black daughter is proof of his long record of fighting for blacks' rights... |
thanks for posting... meow85 said: One of the interesting features of this article to me is that it's written by a man.
Sorry about the quality of some of those scans, but it's the best I can do with my crappy machines. |
And, SnakePeel, congrats on the byline!!! |
A really interesting article. It's well thought out and one of the few factually accurate articles that I've read about the man. The only mis-step was the title of the song he did with Eve on the Rave album. That was "Hot with U" not "Undisputed". "Undisputed" was done with Chuck D. Overall however, I think the author researched this article very well. The inclusion of correct song lyrics and dates was a real plus. I think the piece is generally positive. It paints an honest picture of the complicated guy that Prince is. |
I've never heard "Good Pussy" - I'm gonna have to look into that one. |
TheJourney4all7 said: Awesome.
Bitch is a great, well-written, ad-free mag, so I'm definitely going to pick this up.Well, it's not quite ad-free. They support smaller businesses and companies. But it's corporate ad-free, and that's good enough. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
planetChar said: Interesting read, well-written... the fact that Prince always included women in his bands from the start was very inspiring to me. Not only as background singers/dancers (like most rock/pop acts), but women playing instruments! When compared to other groups from the 80s and to the present time, he's always been farther ahead in his willingness to feature women, and confront/deal with gender issues in a mostly positive way.
That's a rarity, even now. There are relatively few female musicians, and even fewer of those that there are are taken seriously. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
SnakePeel said: ThreadBare said: I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
In more recent years, he has still constructed a world in which he exerts control over women -- this time through religious instruction (given, of course, by him). His statement about Solomon exemplifies this. He, in the end, wants to talk to a man who had countless wives and concubines. Not his first reference to Solomon, mind you ("Big Fun"). Again, the reference to Solomon seems less about an attempt to understand women as equals and more about reducing Solomon to a kind of pimp and his ability to "pull" that many women. To be fair, a lot of Prince's lyrics about women do talk about feelings and emotions (though many that do are about how Prince has been victimized somehow). Again, anyone who sees him as a feminist has been viewing Prince's career with one eye open and the other mostly cracked. Oh? bell hooks has spoken at length about Prince and his often female-empowering perspective, calling him "the only man I would ever go on a date with." Similarly, Naomi Wolfe, Kathy Acker, Ani DiFranco and other feminist icons have all expressed admiration towards Prince's slightly feminist attitude. Music is still very much a boys club, and with the exception of Kurt Cobain and the Beastie Boys how many male artists have ever espoused any feminist ideas? The point of the article is NOT to paint Prince as a feminist--which he clearly is not--but to acknowledge that he is quite the possibly the only male musical artist to even come within range of earning the title. Prince is the biggest contradiction in music--misogynistic and female-empowering at the same time. This is what fascinates us...and frustrates us.
Can any of us imagine what Prince would be like without his contradictions and hypocrisies? It wouldn't just be his persona that would be different, his music wouldn't be the same either. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
steelyd said: ThreadBare said: I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
In more recent years, he has still constructed a world in which he exerts control over women -- this time through religious instruction (given, of course, by him). His statement about Solomon exemplifies this. He, in the end, wants to talk to a man who had countless wives and concubines. Not his first reference to Solomon, mind you ("Big Fun"). Again, the reference to Solomon seems less about an attempt to understand women as equals and more about reducing Solomon to a kind of pimp and his ability to "pull" that many women. To be fair, a lot of Prince's lyrics about women do talk about feelings and emotions (though many that do are about how Prince has been victimized somehow). Again, anyone who sees him as a feminist has been viewing Prince's career with one eye open and the other mostly cracked. Very well said! I think Prince tries to have a better understanding of women through his music and he does champion great female musicians to his credit, but I 100% agree with you. Prince is a very controlling man when it comes to women because deep down he's an very insecure man. "Strange Relationship" says it all "I didn't like the way you were, so I had to make you mine". Even if he is talking religion...in the end the woman has to be what he thinks she should be. He's got that Madonna/ Whore complex Baaaaaddd! I think he totally objectifies women instead of dealing with them for who they really are. Great musician, great performer, he may even be a cool person on certain levels, but I'd never call him a feminist. He definitely does that, but I don't think hsi controlling behaviour is limited to women. Various men he's worked or associated with say the exact same things about him that the women have -that he picks and controls your music, your clothes, your appearance, your public persona, even your name. He definitely does strike me as controlling to mask his insecurity, but it'd be a mistake IMO to suggest he's only treating women this way. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
When Beyonce came to Moscow last October she had an all-female band - a refreshing change...
meow85 said: planetChar said: Interesting read, well-written... the fact that Prince always included women in his bands from the start was very inspiring to me. Not only as background singers/dancers (like most rock/pop acts), but women playing instruments! When compared to other groups from the 80s and to the present time, he's always been farther ahead in his willingness to feature women, and confront/deal with gender issues in a mostly positive way.
That's a rarity, even now. There are relatively few female musicians, and even fewer of those that there are are taken seriously. |
meow85 said: steelyd said: Very well said! I think Prince tries to have a better understanding of women through his music and he does champion great female musicians to his credit, but I 100% agree with you. Prince is a very controlling man when it comes to women because deep down he's an very insecure man. "Strange Relationship" says it all "I didn't like the way you were, so I had to make you mine". Even if he is talking religion...in the end the woman has to be what he thinks she should be. He's got that Madonna/ Whore complex Baaaaaddd! I think he totally objectifies women instead of dealing with them for who they really are. Great musician, great performer, he may even be a cool person on certain levels, but I'd never call him a feminist. He definitely does that, but I don't think hsi controlling behaviour is limited to women. Various men he's worked or associated with say the exact same things about him that the women have -that he picks and controls your music, your clothes, your appearance, your public persona, even your name. He definitely does strike me as controlling to mask his insecurity, but it'd be a mistake IMO to suggest he's only treating women this way. I agree with that, he definitely exhibits that controlling aspect of his personality when your in his employ. I know stories of how he's mistreated various band members. People were turning to Jesus after they left him. He let's his women get closer though. There is a whole other level to his control when intimacy is involved. Prince never married a man, got him pregnant, had a baby with a man with birth defects, has the baby die, then forces the man to go on national television in front of millions of people, make the man tell the world that everything is fine, then essentially dump the man for not being perfect. Prince never got engaged to a man, then paraded 3 or 4 other men in front of him and expected him NOT to say anything.....I'm being silly, but catch my drift. I do agree with you though. You have to be tough to deal with him. |
steelyd said: meow85 said: He definitely does that, but I don't think hsi controlling behaviour is limited to women. Various men he's worked or associated with say the exact same things about him that the women have -that he picks and controls your music, your clothes, your appearance, your public persona, even your name. He definitely does strike me as controlling to mask his insecurity, but it'd be a mistake IMO to suggest he's only treating women this way. I agree with that, he definitely exhibits that controlling aspect of his personality when your in his employ. I know stories of how he's mistreated various band members. People were turning to Jesus after they left him. He let's his women get closer though. There is a whole other level to his control when intimacy is involved. Prince never married a man, got him pregnant, had a baby with a man with birth defects, has the baby die, then forces the man to go on national television in front of millions of people, make the man tell the world that everything is fine, then essentially dump the man for not being perfect. Prince never got engaged to a man, then paraded 3 or 4 other men in front of him and expected him NOT to say anything.....I'm being silly, but catch my drift. I do agree with you though. You have to be tough to deal with him. Prince just strikes me as someone best kept at a distance; a person who, while interesting, not someone to tangle yourself with. He does however, strike me as having a genuine respect and admiration for women -it's just that his more unpleasant personality traits take over and he unleashes his inner control freak. The difference between his treatment of men and women as far as I can see, is dependent on the level of intimacy. We don't see exactly the same behaviour with men because he's never, as you said, been in a relationship with a man -publicly, anyway. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. |
Fantastic article, Snakepeel. It was good to see Prince's more feminine-friendly side being praised.
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) |
i am just getting around to reading that and it is AMAZING. Great article!
|
This is one of the many reasons why Prince is such an interesting artist and person to me. I've written an essay dealing with this issue, among other things. It's not nearly as good as this article though. Thanks for posting it!
|
I enjoyed that article, thanks! She gave her angels... |
steelyd said: ThreadBare said: I don't see how anyone familiar with Prince's music could confuse him with a feminist. The first half of his career was spent objectifying women sexually and dressing them in next to nothing while having them act out his sexual fantasies.
In more recent years, he has still constructed a world in which he exerts control over women -- this time through religious instruction (given, of course, by him). His statement about Solomon exemplifies this. He, in the end, wants to talk to a man who had countless wives and concubines. Not his first reference to Solomon, mind you ("Big Fun"). Again, the reference to Solomon seems less about an attempt to understand women as equals and more about reducing Solomon to a kind of pimp and his ability to "pull" that many women. To be fair, a lot of Prince's lyrics about women do talk about feelings and emotions (though many that do are about how Prince has been victimized somehow). Again, anyone who sees him as a feminist has been viewing Prince's career with one eye open and the other mostly cracked. Very well said! I think Prince tries to have a better understanding of women through his music and he does champion great female musicians to his credit, but I 100% agree with you. Prince is a very controlling man when it comes to women because deep down he's an very insecure man. "Strange Relationship" says it all "I didn't like the way you were, so I had to make you mine". Even if he is talking religion...in the end the woman has to be what he thinks she should be. He's got that Madonna/ Whore complex Baaaaaddd! I think he totally objectifies women instead of dealing with them for who they really are. Great musician, great performer, he may even be a cool person on certain levels, but I'd never call him a feminist. Goog Swap here guys. To add to it, no matter your opinion on this article perspective, Prince as a mysogonist/feminist or men in general, let's not 4get that women play a large role in how they are perceived and treated by men particulary a man like Prince and this so called music industry. The majority of Prince's fans have and will always will be women because he brings the raw sensuality in such a way that we appreciate and get off on it. Prince is the only male artist that can make the term Bitch seem like a compliment (irrisistible definitely). All the women who've left his entourage to forge their own careers carried on the sexual aura proudly. Heck Wendy and Lisa showed just as much skin when they left Prince as when they were by his side! I've never found his music demeaning to women or an admission to controlling women and he has always struck me as someone dealing with his inner caveman. He plays tit for tat with the whole putting women on a pedastel and viewing them as equals. None of the women he's worked with have ever insinuated that he mistreated them or viewed them simply as objects or arm candy and if anything his musics suggests that women have a lot of control over him which he digs! As for that madonna/whore complex. Shit women invented that! Men just gave it name. The same women shouting Aretha's respect are the very ones trying to get backstage or on the tour bus, trying to assess the man's net worth and subsequent worthiness, wear skimpy ass clothes and complain about being objectified, and cry preggers so their men won't leave them. We got the power but often misuse it. We hate the players when we should hate the game! Nobody plays look but don't touch better than we. [Edited 8/3/08 0:08am] 
"   LOVE YOU 4EVA GRANDMA LOLA, WATCH OVER US TILL WE MEET AGAIN.  PRINCE: WH3N U L3T TH3 RAIN FALL DOWN, TH3Y ALL GONNA G3T W3T! |
meow85 said: Sorry about the quality of some of those scans, but it's the best I can do with my crappy machines.
Actually I really appreciate that you did that. I don't know where I would be able to track down a copy of Bitch magazine. |
Prince has a song called "Good Pussy"? |
BITCH magazine? wish U were here baby, on me--
Stuck like glue! |
i really enjoyed reading that. loved the illustration too! I thought u liked eggs. I thought u liked me. |
URL: http://prince.org/msg/7/274580/
Date printed: Sat 21st Nov 2009 1:47pm PST
