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Thread started 03/21/08 2:31pm

MattyJam

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Musicians: Technical question about Prince's music...

I was just wondering could any of you musicians give me some examples of the kind of time signatures Prince uses in his compositions?

I know most pop songs are 4/4, but could you give me some examples of some other time signatures he uses and in which songs?
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Reply #1 posted 03/21/08 3:06pm

RealMusician

Actually, Prince's entire catalogue is almost exclusively in 4/4. The only possible exceptions being some ballads, that could be considered as 6/8 or 12/8 (Insatiable, Extraordinary, The Question of U etc).

Oh, and "She Loves Me 4 Me" is in 3/4.

It's kind of surprising, really, that he hasn't experimented with time signatures at all - considering his innovative approach with other musical elements...
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Reply #2 posted 03/21/08 3:12pm

chocolate1

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"Power Fantastic" is in 3/4 as well. I tried to get my EX-fiance to waltz because I wanted it to be my wedding song. pout

"Love Hurts.
Your lies, they cut me.
Now your words don't mean a thing.
I don't give a damn if you ever loved me..."

-Cher, "Woman's World"
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Reply #3 posted 03/21/08 4:00pm

maxim9691

"a place in heaven", or "she wants a place in heaven"
3/4

It seems that his drum pattern preferences also seem to steer him towards ,common times.
I think it was Johnny Carson, i believe it was before Jay, anyway he was interviewing Miles Davis.
Miles pointed out that P, had a very particular drum beat style that he didn't want to steer away from.
I don't recall the exact wording, but that was the gist of it.
Thats partly to blame for everything sounding the same.
Even thought the music is wide and varied, the drums and bass bring, a familiar feeling to the songs.
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Reply #4 posted 03/21/08 4:15pm

7salles

I think do you lie is 12/8
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Reply #5 posted 03/21/08 7:18pm

aiutatecy

curious child is 3/4 too....

has he ever played 7/8 or 5/4?
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Reply #6 posted 03/21/08 11:34pm

Jochem

RealMusician said:

It's kind of surprising, really, that he hasn't experimented with time signatures at all - considering his innovative approach with other musical elements...

True, but what about the start and bridge in Shhh?
There is a strange part in it with some 9/8 or so... eek
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Reply #7 posted 03/21/08 11:41pm

ThreadBare

The time sig changes in "The Same December" are really nice.

Keep in mind that a lot of the flexibility we see in Prince's music depend on whether he's using a drummer in a song. Michael Bland helped bring some much-needed life to his stuff, as did Blackwell.
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Reply #8 posted 03/22/08 2:14am

RealMusician

ThreadBare said:

The time sig changes in "The Same December" are really nice.


Yeah, I forgot about that one. He changes from half-time to double-time feel, and then back. There's also some metric modulation (very unusual in a Prince song!) where the eighth notes becomes triplet eighth notes of the new tempo.

But even still, it's all 4/4 basically.
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Reply #9 posted 03/22/08 2:27am

RealMusician

Jochem said:

RealMusician said:

It's kind of surprising, really, that he hasn't experimented with time signatures at all - considering his innovative approach with other musical elements...

True, but what about the start and bridge in Shhh?
There is a strange part in it with some 9/8 or so... eek



No, that's all 4/4 too.

But I see what makes you think that: In the fourth bar of the drum intro, everybody lands on the second eighth note (the "and" of 1), making it sound like a downbeat - which can fool you to believe that the first eighth note actually belongs to the previous bar, which then would make it a 9/8, yes.

It's an old trick... wink

Another example of the same thing is the chorus of "Splash", that starts on the 2 instead of the 1, creating the illusion of a 5/4 bar followed by a 3/4. But it's really 4/4 all the way. What's so clever about this particular example is that Prince uses the vocal phrase to fool you. That's one of the strongest elements in music - if there are words and a human voice, that's what our ears will follow.
[Edited 3/22/08 2:48am]
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Reply #10 posted 03/22/08 3:24am

TonyWilliams

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Jochem said:

RealMusician said:

It's kind of surprising, really, that he hasn't experimented with time signatures at all - considering his innovative approach with other musical elements...

True, but what about the start and bridge in Shhh?
There is a strange part in it with some 9/8 or so... eek



All in 4/4. Sorry.

But : i wanted to add something anyway. Actually there
is a 9/8 beat, i love that one so much. It´s the outro of "A large room with no light". One of my favorite songs of all time.
To say that he didn´t experiment with time signatures is...unfair. A least a bit.
Listen to the bridge of "Mountains". Love that one too. The beats flips over, there`s a quarter note missing which is added later. That way the feel twists around. Smart stuff.
But it`s true that the majority of his music deals with straight ahead 4/4 beats. Just like the majority of music of all Soul/Rock/Funk artists.
Love...thy will b done
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Reply #11 posted 03/22/08 4:39am

7salles

"In A large room with no light"

Hey I dont know this song. From what year period is it?
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Reply #12 posted 03/22/08 5:22am

Milty

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why would he do a 12/8 or a 5/4? you can't get funky with that.
One thing has never tried to be is Sting.
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Reply #13 posted 03/22/08 6:46am

ThreadBare

RealMusician said:

ThreadBare said:

The time sig changes in "The Same December" are really nice.


Yeah, I forgot about that one. He changes from half-time to double-time feel, and then back. There's also some metric modulation (very unusual in a Prince song!) where the eighth notes becomes triplet eighth notes of the new tempo.

But even still, it's all 4/4 basically.


Except for the passage leading to the blues deal. Briefly, unless I'm mistaken, he's in 3/4.
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Reply #14 posted 03/22/08 7:02am

RealMusician

ThreadBare said:

RealMusician said:



Yeah, I forgot about that one. He changes from half-time to double-time feel, and then back. There's also some metric modulation (very unusual in a Prince song!) where the eighth notes becomes triplet eighth notes of the new tempo.

But even still, it's all 4/4 basically.


Except for the passage leading to the blues deal. Briefly, unless I'm mistaken, he's in 3/4.


Well, it depends on how you look at it. In this case, what I call eighth note triplets (with Prince's sixtuplet guitar lick on top) could also be considered quarter notes - then you'd have 3/4, sure.
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Reply #15 posted 03/22/08 7:24am

ThreadBare

RealMusician said:

ThreadBare said:



Except for the passage leading to the blues deal. Briefly, unless I'm mistaken, he's in 3/4.


Well, it depends on how you look at it. In this case, what I call eighth note triplets (with Prince's sixtuplet guitar lick on top) could also be considered quarter notes - then you'd have 3/4, sure.

Yeah, the triplets plus the feel of the drumming through there suggest a time change to me. But, I've never been the best at gauging sigs.
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Reply #16 posted 03/22/08 1:03pm

Jochem

RealMusician said:

No, that's all 4/4 too.

But I see what makes you think that: In the fourth bar of the drum intro, everybody lands on the second eighth note (the "and" of 1), making it sound like a downbeat - which can fool you to believe that the first eighth note actually belongs to the previous bar, which then would make it a 9/8, yes.

So, did I understand you correctly if I say that is it all 8/8 but the illusion is that it is 9/8 followed by 7/8...
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Reply #17 posted 03/22/08 1:10pm

RealMusician

Jochem said:

RealMusician said:

No, that's all 4/4 too.

But I see what makes you think that: In the fourth bar of the drum intro, everybody lands on the second eighth note (the "and" of 1), making it sound like a downbeat - which can fool you to believe that the first eighth note actually belongs to the previous bar, which then would make it a 9/8, yes.

So, did I understand you correctly if I say that is it all 8/8 but the illusion is that it is 9/8 followed by 7/8...


Exactly. It's mathematics, really. smile
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Reply #18 posted 03/22/08 1:11pm

MattyJam

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7salles said:

I think do you lie is 12/8



Do You Lie is 12/8? I can't hear that personally....

Is he right???
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Reply #19 posted 03/22/08 1:12pm

MattyJam

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Milty said:


One thing has never tried to be is Sting.


What do you mean by that?
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Reply #20 posted 03/22/08 1:38pm

RealMusician

MattyJam said:

7salles said:

I think do you lie is 12/8



Do You Lie is 12/8? I can't hear that personally....

Is he right???


Basically, a song in 4/4 with a triplet feel can always be considered 12/8. This is regardless of tempo, although it's more common with slower tunes.

"The Question Of U", "It's About That Walk", "How Come U Don't Call Me", "Still Waiting" and "International Lover" are some examples. "Do U Lie" is too - although not as obvious, since the tempo is faster and the triplet feel is less emphasized.

However, 12/8 really only exists in theory (at least when it comes to popular music). Meaning that noone really counts twelve beats - it's always 4/4 with a triplet feel, for the listener as well as the performer.
[Edited 3/22/08 13:39pm]
[Edited 3/22/08 13:42pm]
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Reply #21 posted 03/22/08 3:56pm

Snap

would be cool if he took some time to learn music theory
i know Tamar was teaching him some things as recently as 2006
if he played around more with the mathematics of music
i believe it'd open up a lot more possibilities for him
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Reply #22 posted 03/22/08 4:11pm

Wall

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Snap said:

would be cool if he took some time to learn music theory
i know Tamar was teaching him some things as recently as 2006
if he played around more with the mathematics of music
i believe it'd open up a lot more possibilities for him


I think this also points to why so much of his music in the past 20 years is virtually throw away material. He really isn't as accomplished a musician as many make him out to be. There can be all sorts of defenses, but the real reason is just doesn't have the know how to pull something else other than 4/4 off.

I don't know anything about Tamar, but I find it hilarious that he had to be taught musical theory from a protege.
No hard feelings.
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Reply #23 posted 03/22/08 4:25pm

7salles

Wall, Prince is a funk/pop/rock artist. You people overate this all "time sig" aspect of music. Go listen do bs like dream theater if you want to hear it. Prince has some songs that are not in 4/4, It wouldnt hurt him to do more. Do you think that Prince with Renato Neto and Blackwell would not jam in another time sigs if they wanted too? Prince can do it, he did it before, and i am glad at it. I would hate to see prince turning into a dream thater of funk.
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Reply #24 posted 03/22/08 7:20pm

Snap

Wall said:

Snap said:

would be cool if he took some time to learn music theory
i know Tamar was teaching him some things as recently as 2006
if he played around more with the mathematics of music
i believe it'd open up a lot more possibilities for him


I think this also points to why so much of his music in the past 20 years is virtually throw away material. He really isn't as accomplished a musician as many make him out to be. There can be all sorts of defenses, but the real reason is just doesn't have the know how to pull something else other than 4/4 off.

I don't know anything about Tamar, but I find it hilarious that he had to be taught musical theory from a protege.


Girl had some training -- jazz fundamentals, and all. Blackwell did as well... Berklee! Hopefully some of it rubbed off on lil man. Not that any of it would make him do some totally weird crap, but I think it'd really open up his sound. We may never know?
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Reply #25 posted 03/22/08 9:54pm

RodeoSchro

"Under the Cherry Moon" is in 6/8. "Do U Lie?" is in 4/4.
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Reply #26 posted 03/23/08 1:09am

MattyJam

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Has he ever done a song in 2/4?
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Reply #27 posted 03/23/08 1:23am

RealMusician

MattyJam said:

Has he ever done a song in 2/4?


2/4 is the same as 4/4 really. Just depends on how you choose to feel the pulse - half-time or double-time.

In popular music, 4 beats per bar has become a standard, even though you could just as well count it as 2/4.
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Reply #28 posted 03/23/08 2:07am

sarkozyiszeman

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ThreadBare said:

The time sig changes in "The Same December" are really nice.

Keep in mind that a lot of the flexibility we see in Prince's music depend on whether he's using a drummer in a song. Michael Bland helped bring some much-needed life to his stuff, as did Blackwell.


Yeah but it's Prince himself on shh
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Reply #29 posted 03/23/08 2:12am

sarkozyiszeman

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Wall said:

Snap said:

would be cool if he took some time to learn music theory
i know Tamar was teaching him some things as recently as 2006
if he played around more with the mathematics of music
i believe it'd open up a lot more possibilities for him


I think this also points to why so much of his music in the past 20 years is virtually throw away material. He really isn't as accomplished a musician as many make him out to be. There can be all sorts of defenses, but the real reason is just doesn't have the know how to pull something else other than 4/4 off.

I don't know anything about Tamar, but I find it hilarious that he had to be taught musical theory from a protege.


hahaha There must be always someone to say that he is not such an accomplished musician. Funny enough he is considered as a musical genius by many accomplished musicians.
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