Well, I just thank God for Motown, which America gave the world. I can live without the Beatles, Rolling Stones (over rated, Mick Jagger is one of the worse singers and dancers I have ever seen) and Led Zepplin, but I don't think I would ever able to live without the likes of Marvin, Stevie, The Supremes and even the young Michael Jackson. You just wouldn't get such talent from anywhere else in the world.

If we were to depend on Europe, especially England we probably wouldn't have heard of the likes of Aretha, James Brown, Prince, Hendrix, Ella, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis and the list goes on. We would be stuck with white rock/pop music, which some people wouldn't mind but I would have minded very much.
[Edited 12/27/07 5:28am]

I could be wrong but, out of all the early explorers of America such as the Spanish, French, and English....wasn't it the English that brought the slaves to America? Seems to me that England was the one the started the slavery problem in America to begin with. I could be mistaken but I think that's what I learned in school.

vainandy said:

You're missing the point, my friend. Obviously I cannot deny England's involvement in the worldwide slave trade (which included the Spanish and French and many other countries besides), but I'm also not the one making claims that my country is great because racism helped produce great art from the oppressed sections of its community.

Mindflux said:

England did abolish slavery but the English along with the spainish and Portuguese were also the pioneers of slavery, after the Arabs. It was British ships that went to Africa first and took their "cargo" to America, so lets not pretend England never played a part in such evil. If the English abolished slavery then it is only right because they started it. But this ain't about slavery, its about music. And although Hendrix may have found fame in the UK first, the others I mentioned didn't. All those artists I mentioned from Aretha to Prince were born, breed and founded in the good USA not in England.

Now, I haven't got anything against British artists, the likes of the Beatles (even though IMO they are overrated) were good song writers. I have great admiration for groups and artists like Queen, George Michael and Elton John, but I do prefer Jazz, soul, funk and dance and when I think of the artists that have truely capitivated me they are usually from this genre and they are usually from the USA not from England.

The thing about it when the so-called music experts talk of great music they usually refer to white pop/rock music, all you need to do is look at Rolling stone magazine, so if you adhere to rock music being the best music then yes you will probably believe Europe has the best music, but if you want to look beyond that then IMO America wins hands down.
[Edited 12/28/07 12:23pm]

Mindflux said:

But thats not the point though, the thread is about who produces the best music regardless of the reasons. Some say the Brits do and I am saying I believe the America do. We all know the origins of soul and blues and why such music came to be, but the fact of the matter is it came out of America from a people that the British and other Europeans help put there in the first place.

whatsgoingon said:

The thing about it when the so-called music experts talk of great music they usually refer to white pop/rock music, all you need to do is look at Rolling stone magazine, so if you adhere to rock music being the best music then yes you will probably believe Europe has the best music, but if you want to look beyond that then IMO America wins hands down.

Mindflux said:

There's no winner here. I can't imagine life without european music, and I can't imagine it without american music.

Amazing music coming from all over the world.

NDRU said:

but the most amazing from america

Even in the case of people that prefer rock music, rock music itself was started by black Americans so America still wins.

vainandy said:

Except that it wasn't! Rock had its roots in rock and roll and rockabilly which, in turn, had its roots from blues and r'n'b. You can keep ploughing back through influences and eventually you'll get back to ancient man sitting around a fire beating drums! You're just stopping where you want to, but you certainly can't say rock was "started by black Americans".

But you are the one bringing up the point that it came from a group of people that were enslaved and oppressed. That's true, but while you are pointing out who enslaved them, you should point out who enslaved them first.

My love is funk and I've always heard that funk is full of the influence of the drums from Africa. Funk came out in the late 60s/early 70s after the civil rights era was over. I'm assuming a lot of the African rhythm was influenced in this time when everyone was wearing afros, African clothes, and getting all into discovering African culture. All the blues and depressing side of music could have come from that oppression but funk sounds it could have come from black Americans eploring the African culture afterwards. Add some gay people to the mix and you've got disco which is even more fun. Regardless, it all came from right here in the good ole U S of A. Yeah, we're the baddest.
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[Edited 12/28/07 13:49pm]

Mindflux said:

still black ancient man was black....think about it who else gonna play drums?

There's no winner here. I can't imagine life without european music, and I can't imagine it without american music.

Amazing music coming from all over the world.

vainandy said:

Its entirely unneccessary and irrelevant to relate the entire history of slavery - the point was brought up because whatsgoingon tried to state that we should be grateful that America's greatness bestowed the world with Motown. I pointed out that its not so "black and white"!

Again, there is great music to be heard all over the world - I've just returned from a trip to India where I heard the most fabulous and complex music performed by extremely talented groups and individuals. And America certainly owes a huge amount of debt for its musical legacy to its own African-Americans and influences from the motherland Africa itself. It doesn't mean America is the best and its puerile that some attempt to show it in that light.

And if you really want to follow the logic that you and whatsgoingon keep on displaying here, then America really gave us jackshit, seeing as the very people you talk about being successful are not descendants of indigenious people, but of immigrants, convicts, slaves and settlers from the rest of the world - so, you may as well thank the rest of the world for your entire culture! Going by your logic that is

Mindflux said:

But I don't see why me saying that I thank God for Motown, like many people do, would make you bring up who abolished slavery first. Because slavery has nothing to do with what people believe is the best music. Your the one that brought slavery into the topic and try to justify the greatness of England by saying they abolish it, when they help start it as well.

I thank God for Motown because of the talents I mentioned, most of them were born, breed and cultivated in America. I mean Marvin and Stevie alone is enough for me to thank God for American music, yes under difficult circumstances but that is neither here or there. As I said I can live without the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin, they really don't do anything for me, but Marvin and Stevie with albums like Whats going On and Songs in the Key of Life etc really take me on a journey and inspire me.

whatsgoingon said:

That's cool - I'm not knocking what you like and I love Motown myself (are there many Prince fans that wouldn't?).

My point arose because you said "Thank God for Motown, which America gave the world" - I was pointing out that it was not through some inherent "musical greatness" that America posesses which gave us Motown, but opression against the black community by America that produced the conditions for such great art. The comment about England abolishing slavery was a backlash to your "if it were left to England" comment and just further supported the theory that America bred the right conditions for that art, as opposed to nuturing it. It certainly was not intended to make England look "great". Given the rest of my statements, that ought to be the last thing you would expect me to say. The point was black oppression is something that is a far more recent history in America than it was in England, combined with the large multi-ethnic population, that caused the conditions to have this music in the first place.

You were trying to prove that America had the best music because it gave us Motown, whereas I argued that America merely gave the social conditions for that music to flourish - that is NOT America being the best, especially when those conditions were oppressive! The inspiration you mention that you get from this music is because it is so empassioned and steeped in cultural history, so I don't see how you can say it is "neither here nor there".
[Edited 12/28/07 17:06pm]

Mindflux said:

I understand what your saying, but no matter how Motown and other black acts came about they came out of America, not out of England or other European countries.

Europe produced Mozart, Beethoven, Bach
America produced Hans Zimmer.

Americans better musically? You guys are fucking crazy

yxl1 said:

Hans Zimmer is German.

This has to be the most ignorant thread I've seen this year, irony notwithstanding.

Y'all need a Tripanning is all I'll say!

To get back to the original question...

"Does Prince, among other US musicians prove that Americans are just far far better musically than other nationalities?"

No, it probably means that you're American.

End of.

In fact, if I were to pick my big cultural influences in music this year, it would be sounds from India and Brazil.

WHO'S GOT THE BIGGEST???? WE DO. NOOO, WEEE DOOO!!!


People, you're really funny.

HenkL said:

I wonder why the majority in this thread are men