D'Angelo beef with Prince

http://board.okayplayer.c...3162&page=

Here is my rant over at okayplayer.com Its long, just in case anyone was interested, the link is above. If U want 2 read it any dont want 2 click link here it is below.

My level is now what U must learn 2 rise above
Talk 2 D'Angelo or better yet ?uestlove
How U gonna get my back when U frontin'?

-Prince, 'Undisputed (Moneyapolis Mix)

I think Prince was referring 2 when D'Angelo said something along the lines of him and ?uestlove could help Prince with making an lp. I dont really know the extent of that beef but i would like 2 get somethings things off my chest about D'Angelo regarding Prince. I appreciate anyone who takes the time 2 read this, and i respect any opinion that U have regarding this message.

First of all let me say that I am really fond of D'Angelo as a muscian. Brown Sugar was tight, Voodoo is the reason why i joined this forum. I am, like many, awaiting the next D'Angelo lp hopefully it'll drop sometime within the next infinite. In regards 2 this topic on the alledged beef between my main man Prince and D'Angelo I would like 2 say that D'Angelo is really besides himself a times when he has refferred 2 Prince. Check out the points below.

1) " just want to work with him. Make him do some '82 shit with the deep drums, and the synth. I wanna see him go there again. Back to some raw funk shit" -D'Angelo interview w/Questlove.

2) The joint interview with Beck. He said somehting along the lines of "Prince should put that big symbol guitar down, and pick up the telecaster, bring out them old keyboards and drum machines and make real Prince music." not an official quote, but something like that.

3) The Voodoo Liner notes.

4) Quoting Prince without giving real credit. example...


'A lot of people think it does, but it doesn't at all. I think the smartest thing I ever did was record Around the World in a Day right after I finished Purple Rain. I didn't wait to see what would happen with Purple Rain. That's why the two albums sound completely different. People think, "Oh, the new album isn't half as powerful as Purple Rain or 1999." You know how easy it would have been to open Around the World in a Day with the guitar solo that's on the end of "Let's Go Crazy"? You know how easy it would have been to just put it in a different key?
-Prince Rolling Stone '85

D'Angelo oddly says something similar in regards 2 his maturing sound on Voodoo, on how easy it would have been 2 play it in a "different key" and making it sound like a Brown Sugar.

5) Chicken Grease. Any true Prince fan knows that Prince was hollerin' Chicken Grease back in '86. Most notably on 'Its Gonna Be A Beautiful Night'. D' wouldnt be hollerin that if it wasnt 4 Prince, U would be a fool not 2 think so.

My thing is this. D'Angelo wants 2 grow as a musician, there is no doubt about that, cause Voodoo is a 360 degree turn from Brown Sugar. U know how arrogant it sounds 4 someone with 2 Lps in 11 years in the music industry 2 B critical in the least bit about his idol, who in an 11 year run (78-89) had more music than u could ever dream of? And in that 11 year period (78 thru 89) made the music that inspired D' the most. I know D' has many influences, but that man has no room 2 comment on somebody of that caliber.

Prince is a true musician, so is D', and if anybody should be understanding of Prince not wanting 2 repeat himself muscially, it should be D'Angelo. D' bitches about how Prince should go back 2 his old style, but he doesnt want 2 give another Brown Sugar, and a lot of people would argue that BSugar was the better of the 2 lps he's released, I wouldnt, im just sayin'.

D'Angelo is about 2 turn 32 years old soon, he only gave us 2 records, Alan Leeds says he has about enough material 4 10 lps now, what the fuck is the delay? I could do the whole when "Prince was 32 years old he had this many lps, hits, awards, bitches, wannabes, lps produced alone 4 other acts etc." Those who know Prince know whats up.

I would like 2 end this by saying that in 94/95 we got a shining light that gave us hope 2 a new reigning genius, and then there was silence 4 5years, but once that silenced ceased again in 2000 we had more hope. Now 6years later no word... A few unreleased/rare released tracks were posted up 4 download, some were covers of other artist songs, but thats it. If u dont like Prince's music thats cool, but if u appreciate real musicians, U would at least respect what he has done, and what he is unlike ur okayplayer artist D'Angelo.

In the 60s u had Jimi, Sly, James. In the 70s U had Stevie, George C., Joni, (Stevie the hands down king in the 70s tho), and in the 80s U had Prince, and Prince in the early 90s 2. But there hasnt been anyone since then that has been able 2 show that they could potientally be the NEXT. D' was supposed 2 B, he obviously isnt, Maxwell, Bilal, etc. Van Hunt looks impressive so far, but who knows? He's 27 28, Prince was releasing Parade, and Sign O The Times at those ages, his 8th and 9th lps. Tony Hussle is nice 2, 26years old, at 26 Prince had Purple Rain. All I'm saying that when I hear the next this or that (Prince, Stevie) its insulting. Lets give these guys sometime b4 we jinx them. But since Stevie, no one has had the drive musically that Prince has. Stevie himself hasnt had the drive 2 put of music on a consitent basis like Prince has, not saying that Prince is better just stating the truth.

I will finally conclude by saying that one day there will be that next, but that next aint Alicia Keys, ain't Bilal, ain't Andre 3000 or D'. I hope that im that next, im 22 years old, all I do besides working full time is 2 work 2 B the best musician I can B, hopefully one day U all will know my name. Thanks 4 reading 2 those who have read this.

P.S. D'Angelo, respect Ur elders boy. U got a long way 2 go.

-Camille87 @
tank522@yahoo.com

Good stuff.

Teehee. You said "beef".

Agree wholeheartedly

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

That was an EXCELLENT piece right there. I agree with EVERYTHING said in the essay.

Prince.org is a cemetery where folks mourn Prince instead of celebrate him and his music. Last time I checked, Prince isn't dead yet.

what's the difference between D'Angelo, his comments and the same folks who complain about the very same shit here? Because he's a "public figure" that gives him less of a right to have an opinion? Because he's only got 2 albums as opposed to Prince's 30? (Quantity over quality and current music industry politics come to mind...)

Had D'Angelo not lit a fire under Prince's ass, there would have been no Rainbow Children which has arguably been one of Prince's best albums in a long time (regardless of whether you.

Personally, I do believe that D'Angelo is just as capable of being the musician Prince is. He filled the musical void for me when I could no longer pretend that Prince's studio albums were meeting a standard. D'Angelo's gotta deal with his own demons, though. In each and every one of those interviews, D'Angelo was never disrespectful. (i.e. Emancipation, Rave, NPS was pure shit, he should be doing blah, blah, blah.) He always stated his admiration and followed up with his opinion.

For those who agree with the initial post and then complain about the exact same shit... I wanna know what's your excuse?

See how many folks who give kudos and accolades to this thread appear in the following thread
[Edited 1/16/06 10:05am]

gargamelgibson said:

This is an interesting topic, and I can see your point. D'Angelo is heavily influenced by Prince, who is obviously one of his major role models. His recordings show a strong (and possibly growing) Prince influence, and his live shows , from what I've heard, mirror Prince's live arrangements circa 1986.

I thought I'd throw in my two cents, being a fan of both, as well as a songwriter. I don't find D'Angelo in the wrong what so ever to talk about Prince's songwriting. At the time of his statements, particularly in his interview with Beck, Prince's output was a bit stale. The fact that Prince (on the Rave album) did exactly what D'Angelo said, went back to the Linn Drum and Oberheims, shows that there's some merit to what he was saying.

I can understand Prince's "beef" with D'Angelo in making critical statements about his output. Can you imagine someone who is clearly following in your footsteps making public criticism about you? That just wouldn't fly in Prince's world, no matter how contructive the criticism.

The interesting thing is that both D'Angelo and Beck were somewhat wrong in their thoughts about Prince. The Rave album is an example of Prince "going back" to the sound that everyone wanted him to, and yet (to me) it's only partially satisfying.

Prince's genius has always been when he's defining something unique, a sound that's new and yet familiar.

ChristopherTracyParade said:

D'Angelo is a talented artist. I would like to hear his cover of "She's Always in My Hair." He is not in the same league as Prince. The genius of Prince is found in his unsatiable quest for new sounds and absolute musical obsession. Prince's genius transends albums or hits. Name me any artist in contemporary music who has the wealth of catalog, sterling live performances (tours, after-hours, pop-ups), great music composed/created for other artists (The Time, Madhouse, Sheila E., etc.). Not any Beatle, Springsteen, U2, MJ, or Stevie Wonder. Prince is a one in a lifetime whirlwind of musical expression that is displayed in his multi-instrumentalist, composition, vocal and arranging skills.

Of course D'Angelo has the right to criticize and we all know he is right on some fronts but lets get real when we are comparing the two.

Well, if D'Angelo had actually released a decent album, instead of that crap Voodoo, then maybe he would have had room to criticize Prince. As it is, he released a steaming pile of turds that aspires to be as good as Prince's worst albums. Hell, I'd rather listen to a gawd-awful shit-fest like NPS before Voodoo.

I also don't agree at all that D lit a "fire under Prince's ass" to inspire him to do TRC. I don't see any similarities between the two at all. In fact, I see much more of an influence from Erykah Badu's Mama's Gun on TRC than I do anything by D'Angelo. Maybe Voodoo was the inspiration behind Rave, but not TRC.

Sure, fans here critique Prince and say what he "should" do all the time, but all they are is fans on an internet board. They hardly have the ear of the D'Angelo decided to, multiple times, call Prince out in interviews and what not, for not doing what he thought he should be doing. It was a lame, arrogant statement from a young upstart who had released one decent album, and one horrid excuse for an album.

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

Ok I have to add my input...ok liek d as well and he is very talented but he is only part of the bigger scale of Prince. Prince is a book of muiscal knowledge and d has taken from only a chapter or two from a bigger book. You really cant compare. He has proven his right yet. I so tired of thses new guys having two hit albums and consider themselves among the legends.Thats very cocky and that proves they are more focused being liek there idol ratehr than surpassing him. Youll need about 10 more albums to ever do so,,so keep dreamin!

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

And yeah, there's a big difference between making a thread on an anonymous little message board that criticizes Prince's output and calling Prince out in an interview.

D'Angelo is so arrogant that he actually thinks he could help Prince's music, when he himself has only released one decent album a decade ago? That's preposterous.

PurpleKnight said:

Yeah, but people here aren't claiming that they could somehow assist Prince in his new music.

That's the absurdity of D'Angelo right there. The idea that a man who's released two albums in a decade (one of which was pure shit) could somehow help Prince in the studio. As if Prince actually needs his help.

gargamelgibson said:

ChristopherTracyParade said:

Well, you'd be pretty shortsighted to feel that a person who's only been in the game for about a decade should be telling a PIONEER that's been around for almost 3 decades on how to do an album.

I think D's problem is/was that he was trying so hard to be the next Prince instead of trying to become the 1st D'Angelo.

I don't think D was trying to be anything but D'Angelo. He wears his influences on his sleeve in the same manner Prince does. With all of this talk about "advising" PIONEERS how to run their business, Prince should have never gotten in the studio with Larry Graham. and that has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witness influence... listen to some real GCS albums and then listen to GCS2000... well nevermind. Let's just say Larry Graham would be a whole lot easier to swallow around these parts if what you say is true.

Beyond any of that, you've missed my point. Which is why is it acceptable for "fans" posting on a message board to state their opinions but it's "disrespectful" when D'angelo (or Saul Williams) does it. If Voodoo's liner notes had never been published and a fan (who wasn't a musician) posted the exact same comments here about Prince, I guarantee there would've been plenty of cosigns, kudos, and high fives to go around.
[Edited 1/16/06 11:52am]

JediMaster said:

PurpleKnight said:

ChristopherTracyParade said:

gargamelgibson said:

I don't think D was trying to be anything but D'Angelo. He wears his influences on his sleeve in the same manner Prince does. With all of this talk about "advising" PIONEERS how to run their business, Prince should have never gotten in the studio with Larry Graham. and that has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witness influence... listen to some real GCS albums and then listen to GCS2000... well nevermind. Let's just say Larry Graham would be a whole lot easier to swallow around these parts if what you say is true.

Beyond any of that, you've missed my point. Which is why is it acceptable for "fans" posting on a message board to state their opinions but it's "disrespectful" when D'angelo (or Saul Williams) does it. If Voodoo's liner notes had never been published and a fan (who wasn't a musician) posted the exact same comments here about Prince, I guarantee there would've been plenty of cosigns, kudos, and high fives to go around.
[Edited 1/16/06 11:52am]

How you can compare Prince "resurrecting" Larry's career to D'Angelo giving P advice on how to do his albums is beyond me. 2 completely different things.

And just like there is now, there would be fans AGAINST the liner notes if a fan wrote them. Works both ways. But the fact that D' is a fellow musician that is HEAVILY INFLUENCED by the one he's criticizing makes it more of an issue.

im not saying d didnt have a valid point
but he can say it but not get beside himself like hes the originator or something or has claim to a music dynasty. He's an r& b funkter that channels only a section of princes muiscal personality/..i havent seend pick up any guitars,,play drums or any serious piano...do that then talk,,but overall im sure they r cool. and d shouldhave folloed princed healthy lifestly ..all that getting high has has caught up to him and he even gained his weight back,,,prince had longevity d should try that...and all u haters can bite teh purple nut,,cuz these newbies are simply jockin,,,

This is more "A Prince fan's obsessive beef with D'Angelo"

I give up.....

gargamelgibson said:

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

gargamelgibson said:

PurpleKnight said:

And yeah, there's a big difference between making a thread on an anonymous little message board that criticizes Prince's output and calling Prince out in an interview.

Here's the explanation I'm waiting for. What's the difference... other than D'Angelo stating his opinion in a more respectable fashion. Because as far as I know, some of you guys can't wait to tell him "how you really feel" to his face?

There is a HUGE difference. None of the people on a message board are being read by the record buying public at large. In fact, only a small percentage of folks are actually reading this shit.

Besides, if D'Angelo were being constructive in his criticism, I would be okay with it, Instead, he was telling Prince how he wasn't doing things right, and that HE could help fix that. Arrogant, no doubt about it, and I'd feel the same way about any person on this board claiming THEY could "fix" Prince's music as well. It's cool to give constructive criticism, but D crossed the line

And folks, don't misconstrue what I say... Of course, Prince is the better musician. However, I won't be the judge on whether D'Angelo was wrong or right for publicly stating his opinion. But, I truly don't wanna hear shit about respecting elders on THIS board when:

a) there is so much hatred toward Larry Graham and Maceo Parker etc.

You're assuming everyone here bashes Larry and Maceo. I find the constant bitching about both of these men to be in poor taste as well, and I DO feel they deserve more respect than they get around here. Larry and Maceo are incredible musicians, and should be treated as such. In my opinion, these men have more than earned our respect just for working with Sly and James.

b) the exact same opinions held by D'Angelo at the time are the same opinions that a good portion of you have today

True, but don't assume that ALL of us are like that. I can be critical of Prince, but I also still show him respect. If he did nothing more in his career than release rehashes of NPS, I'd be sad, but I'd still respect him for all that he has done. I certainly wouldn't be arrogant enough to make some statement about how I could correct what was wrong with Prince's music.

On top of that, I willing to bet that most of you who violate a and b have no albums of your own and are stricly consumers of music.


Again, that's one hell of an assumption. People who are fanatical about music tend to be the MOST hyper-critical, so I wouldn't be so sure that they are "strictly consumers". Chances are, they are probably pretty picky. I certainly think D'Angelo falls into this category as well.

Look, D did one great album, and another that has received a mixed reaction at best. Who is he to be publicly stating what is wrong with one of his influences music, and to suggest that he and ?uestlove are the ones to get it back on track? This was just as arrogant as when Prince suggested to Bonnie Raitt that he could beef up her sound and make her huge again, or when he tried to give advice to Stevie Nicks on how she should "fix" her image. He was a youngun' and he had some good ideas, but to try to arrogantly suggest that he knew better was out of line. Same goes for D'Angelo.

Sure, fans are always going to spout off about what they think their favorite artist "should" be doing, and in this case D is no more different than any of us. The difference comes in when he takes a bigger platform like a music publication, and makes grandiose statements about how he knows what is best for Prince's music. If D had just made statements about how much he wanted to work with Prince, and how he had some ideas he just wanted to bounce off of him, then I think most people would have taken his statements much better.

I still respect D, if nothing else for Brown Sugar, and the fact that when I saw him live he was incredible. I hated Voodoo, and I'm extremely critical of it, but if I suddenly found myself a famous rock star, I wouldn't be making claims that I could get D back on track. Rookies can give constructive criticism, but they have to watch themselves. They need to earn respect before they can start telling everone else what is wrong with them

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

gargamelgibson said:

Like I said, if you listen to some real GCS albums then it wouldn't be beyond you. Somebody knows what I'm saying, and I wish you'd holler if you hear me.
Besides, this whole "beef" with Prince has been nothing but a mountain out of a molehill anyway.

Difference was, Prince was nothing but respecful to Larry, and never once suggested that he was what Larry needed. Prince asked Larry to go on tour with him, because he was such a huge fan of his music, and Prince asked Larry if he could produce the next GCS record. He never went on an interview and said "Yeah, GCS is great, but they ain't done a decent album in a while! Lovesexy was my audition for Larry! I can get his shit back on track". Prince respected Larry as the elder statesmen that he is. Now, I'll agree that REAL GCS albums are far superior to the work Prince did with Larry on GCS2000, no doubt about it, but that album was never the result of some arrogant claim by Prince that he knew better than Larry what Larry needed.

Prince called D'Angelo and congratulated him on Voodoo and I'm sure he didn't get pissy about the liner notes until he saw the fans reaction to them.... hence the Moneyapolis remix of Undisputed.

Actually, he had no problem with the Voodoo liner notes, because they weren't written by D. It wasn't until D and ?uestlove started making all these arrogant statements in interviews that Prince reacted with the Moneyapolis remix, and the references in "Daisy Chain". It had nothing to do with the fans reactions.


And Prince fans can deny it all for the rest of their lives but D'Angelo's opinion and influence had a major impact on Prince. Multiple shout-outs in songs,

Again, these were prior to the interviews that D did. Yes, Prince respected him, no doubt about it. I think he just felt the need to slap down these arrogant pups.


the re-emergence of The Ballad of Dorothy Parker in the new millenium (i.e. a favorite of D'Angelo and ?uestlove)

...and a favorite of most fans. I heard him do this on the Jam of the Year tour, so it's not like he added it only in "the new millenium".

and one of the most rhodes & rimshot-heavy albums Prince has done since For You.

I still hear no similarities between Voodoo and TRC. Again, I think Erykah was a way bigger influence on TRC than D.

They seem to be cool now since the "infamous" visit to Paisley Park. Either way, I'm not getting paid to convince anyone but I still say that quite a few of yall are full of shit.


...and maybe that is why you are so adamant on defending D. Both of you are making rather arrogant statements about people that are going to get you nowhere with them.

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

JediMaster said:

gargamelgibson said:

Universaluv said:

gargamelgibson said:

Universaluv said:

Sounds like this

1) " just want to work with him. Make him do some '82 shit with the deep drums, and the synth. I wanna see him go there again. Back to some raw funk shit" -D'Angelo interview w/Questlove.

just like I suspected. So interpreted that means he could get Prince back to where he thought he should be?

I think Scrapluv was right... I should give up too.

Universaluv said:

gargamelgibson said:

just like I suspected. So interpreted that means he could get Prince back to where he thought he should be?

I think Scrapluv was right... I should give up too.

"I wanna see him go there again..." It's not that wild an interpretation to say this is D'angelo talking about where he thinks Prince should be.