pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Prince married Mayte when she was pregnant - sorry, but this has definitely come to light -by her own statements. They and she had stated back then that her original due date was mid November and that the baby was born premature in October. However, in one of her interviews during her stint on Hollywood Ex's she stated clearly that she carried the baby "to full term". It appears that may have been a "slip of the tongue" as they say, but it's on video, as I've watched it. That being the case, she would have conceived at some point in early January of 1996. This would also explain the rush for the wedding on February 14th 1996. It also makes no sense that Prince would have scheduled the release of his album and all of the press at the exact time she was supposed to give birth - however, scheduling all of that a month after the expected due date makes much more sense.

*

Look, I'm in no way saying that he did not care for her or love her. However, the whole "soulmate" thing and "destined to be together" and "I think she may have been my sister in a former life" blah blah blah....sorry, I think that was PR "fluff" to support the situation, and Prince at his public relations (and quirkiest) best. He had completely re-configured the Emancipation track list during the time they were married as well to add the songs about the marriage and baby - look at the recording dates. By that November, he had tons of promotion to do for that release - including a major appearance on the most watched talk show on TV - Oprah. That interview is tough to watch now - knownig everything we know.

*

You have consistently referred to his "10 year relationship" with Mayte, but for the first 5 years she was his employee and one of MANY that he publicly dated. He was not exclusively involved with her for 10 years. I'm not going to reference songs, but it is a fact that many of them during the 90's were referencing a relationship(s) that he was missing. There is no denying that piece.

I thought that some of what was said to the press about their relationship was possibly PR too and he said in interviews prior to the wedding that he had no plans to settle down any time soon. He built a story around their relationship starting with the Love Symbol album.

I do agree that the Love Symbol album sort of introduced her - with him trying to justify dating a much younger girl (a la The Morning Papers), and he seemed interested in the whole belly dancing/arabian thing, but he was also writing major sex songs like 18 & Over (of which he has her in the promo video dancing like a stripper), Pheromone, The Continental (which we know were Carmen E - inspired), 3 Chains O' Gold (which was about a lost love), and some of the Come album which was about loss and loneliness. So, it seems the songs about their relationship were intermixed with songs about sex and lost love.

Krystalkisses said:

Violetcrush, I just want to thank you for the in-depth and thoughtful explanation of your thoughts to my question. ( I just didn't want reqoat your passage, forgive me )..... I always felt Susannah and he did have something special...one of my favorite revelations in the Toure interview was when she said they would listen to the Grace Jones album " Slave to the Rhythm " and all hang out together. It seemed he was really creating a loving family that he never had...but sadly destroyed it too. (Unconsciously I believe) I am not an artist like Prince so I can't really judge if the Revolution/Family breakup was motivated by wanting to truly go in a different direction...or if that was just his excuse for deeper self destructive tendencies. As for Vanity, I think your assessment of their relationship was probably right. I think she triggered him in both the BEST and WORST ways. She seemed to reach life milestones ahead of him, almost like she was leading him, (she even transcended first). I wondered if for as much love there was there, if there wasn't even almost an envy of Denise Matthews strength, courage in conviction, and her success in sobriety. I wonder if Prince almost resented her for that deep down because (in lieu , of new information, it seemed he was really struggling in secrecy for a long time. Like he wss imprisoned in the Prince persona and she broke out of the Vanity facade to find Denise again). Anyway, I really hope Susannah writes about that time. Judging from the music at the time...it was a magical point in time for him.

krystal!!!! i have wondered the same. it seemed to me he kinda wanted what she had, her bravery to say NO, to turn a corner. i think that was the thing that confounded him about her, attracted

him to her, and perhaps his link to her to the end.

purplefam99 said:

A deep and astute post. Thank you!

Krystalkisses said:

Violetcrush, I just want to thank you for the in-depth and thoughtful explanation of your thoughts to my question. ( I just didn't want reqoat your passage, forgive me )..... I always felt Susannah and he did have something special...one of my favorite revelations in the Toure interview was when she said they would listen to the Grace Jones album " Slave to the Rhythm " and all hang out together. It seemed he was really creating a loving family that he never had...but sadly destroyed it too. (Unconsciously I believe) I am not an artist like Prince so I can't really judge if the Revolution/Family breakup was motivated by wanting to truly go in a different direction...or if that was just his excuse for deeper self destructive tendencies. As for Vanity, I think your assessment of their relationship was probably right. I think she triggered him in both the BEST and WORST ways. She seemed to reach life milestones ahead of him, almost like she was leading him, (she even transcended first). I wondered if for as much love there was there, if there wasn't even almost an envy of Denise Matthews strength, courage in conviction, and her success in sobriety. I wonder if Prince almost resented her for that deep down because (in lieu , of new information, it seemed he was really struggling in secrecy for a long time. Like he wss imprisoned in the Prince persona and she broke out of the Vanity facade to find Denise again). Anyway, I really hope Susannah writes about that time. Judging from the music at the time...it was a magical point in time for him.

yes!!!! i think this was profound upon him. ^^^^^ i think he wanted to know that kind of strength

and i think he ultimatly deeply respected her for that. She said NO to him first and really

the only one to do so with such conviction and strength for that alone she should be applauded

and in my eye be given a special seat, because if anything he needed more of in his life

it was people who were gonna give him fire for his fire. and sadly no one after her did so.

purplefam99 said:

something that i feel about Prince and Susannah's relationship.

i think it was a place of security, steady an mostly uncomplicated.

i think she represented a "mother" place of love. A place that was

unconditional, forever accepting and unchallenged. i think she provided

a mother love to him. no matter how foolish he behaved she was

this place he maybe came back to perhaps to be told "it is ok i still love you

i will still be here to tell you your ok". Something that maybe was missing with Mattie.

i have not been one to really get into who song was for who, that just hasn't been my interest area.

i will say this, when i heard Sinead sing "all the flowers that you planted mama" i always thought

she was actually talking to her mother. now hindsight after being here on the org and talking

about songs and what not. i think the song NCTY is perhaps about, at least in part, about Mattie

or a mothering relationship. i always thought Sinead was singing to her Mother.

we all need different kinds of love i think the mother bond is particularly important.

i think that is why perhaps those songs of wanting SM to stay is because what she was to

his psyche. Mother.

just a thought.

I appreciate your thoughts here, but it's important to understand - and if you really listen to the lyrics of his songs for her - Susannah was far from just a "Mother" figure for Prince. A comfort yes, but in no way just a "mother" figure. He sang a lot about their intimate life ("when we be making love I only hear the sounds, angels crying up above, tears of joy pouring down on us. They know we need each other, they know you are my fix. They know I ain't cheatin' on ya baby, I ain't f**ckin' just for kicks, this condition I got is crucial baby..") Also, with the song "It" ("I think about it baby all the time, cuz when we do it girl it's so divine. I might be guilty for my honesty, but I got to tell you what you mean to me") Not to mention the songs Desire and Screams Of Passion, which I'm sure connect with her as well. So, no question that he was majorly physically drawn to her too - not just emotionally. I think it was just more special to him, as opposed to the "quickies" he would have with the next model, dancer, or whatever coming down the pike. He obviously couldn't resist those girls from a purely physical standpoint, but I think he wanted Susannah both ways.

*

But yes, no doubt she was a comfort for him. I think he considered her a friend and confidante - not just a lover. He had both with her -at least in his mind. As he wrote in Wally - "what am I gonna do? She was the only one in the whole world I could talk to..."

*

Edit: It's also important to note: the word "mama" was used by Prince in the earlier days as a way of describing his lover or a woman. It was never a literal reference to his Mother or a Mother NC2U is an absolute love song - not relating to a mother figure

[Edited 2/20/19 11:19am]

purplefam99 said:

Yep! If you think about it you can imagine the cognitive dissonance that must of tortured him by her example. It was evidence that it could be done, but huge sacrifices must be made, he was indeed making a choice , I I do believe he did want to follow God and live that way but his worldly Prince persona kept pulling him back. As the bible says , you can't serve two masters. My heart goes out to him, I don't think Prince ever felt "safe" here.

amethyst68 said:

amethyst68 said:

"I've never been this much in love."

"I had a lot of women say to me that they were my soulmate. I don't know if they knew what that meant. I know I've never felt it myself until now."

"My soul has been in love with my wife for thousands of years."

"She makes my soul complete."

"I'm in love with everything about her."

Do his own words (this is only some of them) mean anything?

AGAIN....Oprah....PR for his album....he was just married and planning to have a baby...

*

It seems clear that his soul was not that complete based on the fact that not long after they were married he was moving on and wanted something else.

purplefam99 said:

Krystalkisses said:

Violetcrush, I just want to thank you for the in-depth and thoughtful explanation of your thoughts to my question. ( I just didn't want reqoat your passage, forgive me )..... I always felt Susannah and he did have something special...one of my favorite revelations in the Toure interview was when she said they would listen to the Grace Jones album " Slave to the Rhythm " and all hang out together. It seemed he was really creating a loving family that he never had...but sadly destroyed it too. (Unconsciously I believe) I am not an artist like Prince so I can't really judge if the Revolution/Family breakup was motivated by wanting to truly go in a different direction...or if that was just his excuse for deeper self destructive tendencies. As for Vanity, I think your assessment of their relationship was probably right. I think she triggered him in both the BEST and WORST ways. She seemed to reach life milestones ahead of him, almost like she was leading him, (she even transcended first). I wondered if for as much love there was there, if there wasn't even almost an envy of Denise Matthews strength, courage in conviction, and her success in sobriety. I wonder if Prince almost resented her for that deep down because (in lieu , of new information, it seemed he was really struggling in secrecy for a long time. Like he wss imprisoned in the Prince persona and she broke out of the Vanity facade to find Denise again). Anyway, I really hope Susannah writes about that time. Judging from the music at the time...it was a magical point in time for him.

yes!!!! i think this was profound upon him. ^^^^^ i think he wanted to know that kind of strength

and i think he ultimatly deeply respected her for that. She said NO to him first and really

the only one to do so with such conviction and strength for that alone she should be applauded

and in my eye be given a special seat, because if anything he needed more of in his life

it was people who were gonna give him fire for his fire. and sadly no one after her did so.

I think you are misrepresenting the situation with Vanity a bit here. Yes, outwardly she was strong and tough, however, internally she was struggling and very unhappy in her life which seems to be what led her to the drug addiction - at least based on her interviews and discussions that I've seen. SHE was unhappy, however, Prince was doing exactly what he wanted to do with his life and career. Yes, he lost friends, loves, etc...but he did not stop doing what he really wanted to do, which was record and perform music. There were "casualties" of his behavior, but that did not stop him.

*

Prince was HER teacher - not the other way around - at least within the performing and music world. She was trying to fit into HIS world - not the other way around. They definitely seemed to compete with each other, but Prince had the ultimate success in terms of his career. Vanity's career was cut short due to the drugs almost killing her. She turned to religion to escape from that world and recover. Some have said her turn toward religion was just another type of addiction, however, it clearly helped her to move on and gave her something to live for. It was a positive force in her life.

*

Keep in mind too - Prince was NOT drug addicted throughout his life. No way he could have maintained his recording and performing schedule had he been seriously addicted. Even in his final year he was still consistently performing while on those pain meds. I think it's very possible that he actually felt some guilt and responsibility for what happened with Denise in the 90's - even though she ultimately made those choices, he was a huge influence on her.

*

Regarding the relationship with Susannah - and also Wendy, Lisa and crew - yes, it seemed they were all like a family unit for awhile. In Anotherloverholeinyohead, Prince sings, "we were brothers and sisters united all for love...", so I think he pulled away so as not to get too close. In Matt Thorne's book Susannah stated about the end of the Revolution that he ended it so he could remain safe with his heart. Very sad.

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said:

krystal!!!! i have wondered the same. it seemed to me he kinda wanted what she had, her bravery to say NO, to turn a corner. i think that was the thing that confounded him about her, attracted

him to her, and perhaps his link to her to the end.

Yep! If you think about it you can imagine the cognitive dissonance that must of tortured him by her example. It was evidence that it could be done, but huge sacrifices must be made, he was indeed making a choice , I I do believe he did want to follow God and live that way but his worldly Prince persona kept pulling him back. As the bible says , you can't serve two masters. My heart goes out to him, I don't think Prince ever felt "safe" here.

I think Prince struggled with the opposition of a "darker sexual" lifestyle and his religious beliefs. However, I never got the impression that he struggled with being a musician and performer over being just a religious figure - not at all. He wanted to express his opinions, thoughts, feelings and beliefs - whatever they may have been at any given time in his life - through his music. He lived for that, and lost a lot in order to have that all the time on his own terms. I think he would have died long ago if he could not have had his music and performing. He often said he was happiest being in the studio or on stage - those were his "safe" places.

violetcrush said:

With all due respect, I am in the camp that he both experimented with and relied on drugs throughout his whole adult life perhaps with periods of sobriety. I think people don't want to talk about it out of love and respect for him and maybe some culpability on some of their behalf too, because they knew how much his image meant to him. For all those who said he was accepting of being an artist with a smaller cult audience I think there was a part of him that craved commercial success as well. I will agree though , yes thank God for giving him the music, but in the end that couldn't save him either sadly.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

I think you are misrepresenting the situation with Vanity a bit here. Yes, outwardly she was strong and tough, however, internally she was struggling and very unhappy in her life which seems to be what led her to the drug addiction - at least based on her interviews and discussions that I've seen. SHE was unhappy, however, Prince was doing exactly what he wanted to do with his life and career. Yes, he lost friends, loves, etc...but he did not stop doing what he really wanted to do, which was record and perform music. There were "casualties" of his behavior, but that did not stop him.

*

Prince was HER teacher - not the other way around - at least within the performing and music world. She was trying to fit into HIS world - not the other way around. They definitely seemed to compete with each other, but Prince had the ultimate success in terms of his career. Vanity's career was cut short due to the drugs almost killing her. She turned to religion to escape from that world and recover. Some have said her turn toward religion was just another type of addiction, however, it clearly helped her to move on and gave her something to live for. It was a positive force in her life.

*

Keep in mind too - Prince was NOT drug addicted throughout his life. No way he could have maintained his recording and performing schedule had he been seriously addicted. Even in his final year he was still consistently performing while on those pain meds. I think it's very possible that he actually felt some guilt and responsibility for what happened with Denise in the 90's - even though she ultimately made those choices, he was a huge influence on her.

*

Regarding the relationship with Susannah - and also Wendy, Lisa and crew - yes, it seemed they were all like a family unit for awhile. In Anotherloverholeinyohead, Prince sings, "we were brothers and sisters united all for love...", so I think he pulled away so as not to get too close. In Matt Thorne's book Susannah stated about the end of the Revolution that he ended it so he could remain safe with his heart. Very sad.

With all due respect, I am in the camp that he both experimented with and relied on drugs throughout his whole adult life perhaps with periods of sobriety. I think people don't want to talk about it out of love and respect for him and maybe some culpability on some of their behalf too, because they knew how much his image meant to him. For all those who said he was accepting of being an artist with a smaller cult audience I think there was a part of him that craved commercial success as well. I will agree though , yes thank God for giving him the music, but in the end that couldn't save him either sadly.

Yes, I'm not saying he didn't have emotional/mental struggles throughout his life, and turned to some type of drug occasionally as an escape. I just don't think there was any way he could have done that on a daily or even weekly basis with the schedule that he kept - at least not in the 80's. It's possible that changed in the 90's, as we know he went through many struggles - both professionally and personally. Mayte has confirmed that he overdosed on something in April of 1996 , and he was rushed to the hospital to get his stomach pumped. So, no doubt there were periods in his life where he struggled emotionally, but I just don't think he could have maintained his professional lifestyle had he been fully dependent on drugs. His body and mind would have shut down long ago.

*

I think it's also important to mention that he was in physical pain due to the many years of performing in high heels and jumping off of risers. He was performing this way as late as 1999 in his 40's. A body cn only take so much of that abuse.

*

Pain meds are not the same as hallucinogenic drugs. They don't alter your mind in that way, but they do take away physical pain and unfortunately are extremely addictive.

Krystalkisses said:

Krystal there is an article or maybe it was in a book
Where prince says right around the time Denise got married that
He wanted what Denise has. Now I don’t know if he meant spiritually
Or married wise, but he was looking at her as some sort of example.
I read a lot of books after he died so forgive me for not thinking at the time
I would need to keep track of details like that. But when you spoke of envy
It resonated with me because it was from that article or book that I was introduced to that notion in the first place. That in the way of being able to walk away from the flesh she was his teacher.

violetcrush said:

Well there is the daddy complex where women sleep with men like their fathers
Or are attracted to father figures. He could still have sex with SM and still had
A motherly need being met at the same time that made the relationship what he needed on two levels, physical needs and emotional. I would say that given she said the sex was normal ( per Toure interview) that he was there more for the emotional mother stability way she had than the sex. Maybe. They don’t have to be separate. I think that is why he “needed a hug”. That was I feel her major role for his emotional health. I think that is a powerful role. More than their sex life.

Also why is mama not a literal possibility?
Everyone thinks “sista” is and that has long been a reference
For girl/friend/love interest.
[Edited 2/20/19 13:17pm]
[Edited 2/20/19 13:24pm]

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said:

krystal!!!! i have wondered the same. it seemed to me he kinda wanted what she had, her bravery to say NO, to turn a corner. i think that was the thing that confounded him about her, attracted

him to her, and perhaps his link to her to the end.

Yep! If you think about it you can imagine the cognitive dissonance that must of tortured him by her example. It was evidence that it could be done, but huge sacrifices must be made, he was indeed making a choice , I I do believe he did want to follow God and live that way but his worldly Prince persona kept pulling him back. As the bible says , you can't serve two masters. My heart goes out to him, I don't think Prince ever felt "safe" here.

I agree. Great posts!

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

I appreciate your thoughts here, but it's important to understand - and if you really listen to the lyrics of his songs for her - Susannah was far from just a "Mother" figure for Prince. A comfort yes, but in no way just a "mother" figure. He sang a lot about their intimate life ("when we be making love I only hear the sounds, angels crying up above, tears of joy pouring down on us. They know we need each other, they know you are my fix. They know I ain't cheatin' on ya baby, I ain't f**ckin' just for kicks, this condition I got is crucial baby..") Also, with the song "It" ("I think about it baby all the time, cuz when we do it girl it's so divine. I might be guilty for my honesty, but I got to tell you what you mean to me") Not to mention the songs Desire and Screams Of Passion, which I'm sure connect with her as well. So, no question that he was majorly physically drawn to her too - not just emotionally. I think it was just more special to him, as opposed to the "quickies" he would have with the next model, dancer, or whatever coming down the pike. He obviously couldn't resist those girls from a purely physical standpoint, but I think he wanted Susannah both ways.

*

But yes, no doubt she was a comfort for him. I think he considered her a friend and confidante - not just a lover. He had both with her -at least in his mind. As he wrote in Wally - "what am I gonna do? She was the only one in the whole world I could talk to..."

*

Edit: It's also important to note: the word "mama" was used by Prince in the earlier days as a way of describing his lover or a woman. It was never a literal reference to his Mother or a Mother NC2U is an absolute love song - not relating to a mother figure

[Edited 2/20/19 11:19am]

Well there is the daddy complex where women sleep with men like their fathers Or are attracted to father figures. He could still have sex with SM and still had A motherly need being met at the same time that made the relationship what he needed on two levels, physical needs and emotional. I would say that given she said the sex was normal ( per Toure interview) that he was there more for the emotional mother stability way she had than the sex. Maybe. They don’t have to be separate. I think that is why he “needed a hug”. That was I feel her major role for his emotional health. I think that is a powerful role. More than their sex life. [Edited 2/20/19 13:17pm]

Again, as was discussed before in earlier posts - when she stated the sex was "normal" during her discussion with Toure, she had just spent several minutes explaining that the overly sexual persona he had been portraying on stage was not completely who he was in bed. She said it was very loving, and there was a give-and-take. The "normal" comment was in no way her implying that it wasn't romantic or special or enjoyable. Other women have stated this too. Mayte stated the same thing when she was asked that question. Carmen E - apparently during her reality show with her Ex - made a yawning gesture when someone asked her what sex was like with Prince. The point Susannah was making was that it was not the "over the top" porno/s&m type of sex that he often sang about.

*

Crystal Ball and Big Tall Wall were also written for her - both describing his sexual desire for her. When he sang FIML on the SOTT film he added "from the first moment I saw you girl, I knew you were the one for me, you were all that I dreamed of, my every little fantasy. In Big Tall Wall - "if I see you in a restaurant, ooh baby baby you're all I want, your sexy body, your curly brown hair, try to run if you want to - I don't care...." My point is, there is enough within his songs to show that he was just as sexually attracted to her as he was emotionally attached to her. I just think people don't acknowledge it, because they only think of him as being attracted to the "knock down, drag-out "centerfold" beauties - which he was, but he was also very attracted to her look and style - "you dress so smart, you talk so neat, ooh it's hard not to eat ya baby...".

*

Yes, she stated he loved to be hugged by her. She also stated he stayed for an hour during that visit....a lot can happen in one hour, that's all I'm gonna say there

[Edited 2/20/19 13:34pm]

violetcrush said:

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said: Well there is the daddy complex where women sleep with men like their fathers Or are attracted to father figures. He could still have sex with SM and still had A motherly need being met at the same time that made the relationship what he needed on two levels, physical needs and emotional. I would say that given she said the sex was normal ( per Toure interview) that he was there more for the emotional mother stability way she had than the sex. Maybe. They don’t have to be separate. I think that is why he “needed a hug”. That was I feel her major role for his emotional health. I think that is a powerful role. More than their sex life. [Edited 2/20/19 13:17pm]

Again, as was discussed before in earlier posts - when she stated the sex was "normal" during her discussion with Toure, she had just spent several minutes explaining that the overly sexual persona he had been portraying on stage was not completely who he was in bed. She said it was very loving, and there was a give-and-take. The "normal" comment was in no way her implying that it wasn't romantic or special or enjoyable. Other women have stated this too. Mayte stated the same thing when she was asked that question. Carmen E - apparently during her reality show with her Ex - made a yawning gesture when someone asked her what sex was like with Prince. The point Susannah was making was that it was not the "over the top" porno/s&m type of sex that he often sang about.

*

Crystal Ball and Big Tall Wall were also written for her - both describing his sexual desire for her. When he sang FIML on the SOTT film he added "from the first moment I saw you girl, I knew you were the one for me, you were all that I dreamed of, my every little fantasy. In Big Tall Wall - "if I see you in a restaurant, ooh baby baby you're all I want, your sexy body, your curly brown hair, try to run if you want to - I don't care...." My point is, there is enough within his songs to show that he was just as sexually attracted to her as he was emotionally attached to her. I just think people don't acknowledge it, because they only think of him as being attracted to the "knock down, drag-out "centerfold" beauties - which he was, but he was also very attracted to her look and style - "you dress so smart, you talk so neat, ooh it's hard not to eat ya baby...".

*

Yes, she stated he loved to be hugged by her. She also stated he stayed for an hour during that visit....a lot can happen in one hour, that's all I'm gonna say there

[Edited 2/20/19 13:34pm]

Footnote: he may have arrived under the guise of wanting a hug, but I wouldn't doubt that he left with having had more than that

violetcrush said:

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said: Well there is the daddy complex where women sleep with men like their fathers Or are attracted to father figures. He could still have sex with SM and still had A motherly need being met at the same time that made the relationship what he needed on two levels, physical needs and emotional. I would say that given she said the sex was normal ( per Toure interview) that he was there more for the emotional mother stability way she had than the sex. Maybe. They don’t have to be separate. I think that is why he “needed a hug”. That was I feel her major role for his emotional health. I think that is a powerful role. More than their sex life. [Edited 2/20/19 13:17pm]

Again, as was discussed before in earlier posts - when she stated the sex was "normal" during her discussion with Toure, she had just spent several minutes explaining that the overly sexual persona he had been portraying on stage was not completely who he was in bed. She said it was very loving, and there was a give-and-take. The "normal" comment was in no way her implying that it wasn't romantic or special or enjoyable. Other women have stated this too. Mayte stated the same thing when she was asked that question. Carmen E - apparently during her reality show with her Ex - made a yawning gesture when someone asked her what sex was like with Prince. The point Susannah was making was that it was not the "over the top" porno/s&m type of sex that he often sang about.

*

Crystal Ball and Big Tall Wall were also written for her - both describing his sexual desire for her. When he sang FIML on the SOTT film he added "from the first moment I saw you girl, I knew you were the one for me, you were all that I dreamed of, my every little fantasy. In Big Tall Wall - "if I see you in a restaurant, ooh baby baby you're all I want, your sexy body, your curly brown hair, try to run if you want to - I don't care...." My point is, there is enough within his songs to show that he was just as sexually attracted to her as he was emotionally attached to her. I just think people don't acknowledge it, because they only think of him as being attracted to the "knock down, drag-out "centerfold" beauties - which he was, but he was also very attracted to her look and style - "you dress so smart, you talk so neat, ooh it's hard not to eat ya baby...".

*

Yes, she stated he loved to be hugged by her. She also stated he stayed for an hour during that visit....a lot can happen in one hour, that's all I'm gonna say there

[Edited 2/20/19 13:34pm]

^^^^^^^^^if this is the point she is making and you as well with the lyrics, then we can probably say it is a sage bet that his huge professions of love

in songs were "over the top" as well, right????

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Again, as was discussed before in earlier posts - when she stated the sex was "normal" during her discussion with Toure, she had just spent several minutes explaining that the overly sexual persona he had been portraying on stage was not completely who he was in bed. She said it was very loving, and there was a give-and-take. The "normal" comment was in no way her implying that it wasn't romantic or special or enjoyable. Other women have stated this too. Mayte stated the same thing when she was asked that question. Carmen E - apparently during her reality show with her Ex - made a yawning gesture when someone asked her what sex was like with Prince. The point Susannah was making was that it was not the "over the top" porno/s&m type of sex that he often sang about.

*

Crystal Ball and Big Tall Wall were also written for her - both describing his sexual desire for her. When he sang FIML on the SOTT film he added "from the first moment I saw you girl, I knew you were the one for me, you were all that I dreamed of, my every little fantasy. In Big Tall Wall - "if I see you in a restaurant, ooh baby baby you're all I want, your sexy body, your curly brown hair, try to run if you want to - I don't care...." My point is, there is enough within his songs to show that he was just as sexually attracted to her as he was emotionally attached to her. I just think people don't acknowledge it, because they only think of him as being attracted to the "knock down, drag-out "centerfold" beauties - which he was, but he was also very attracted to her look and style - "you dress so smart, you talk so neat, ooh it's hard not to eat ya baby...".

*

Yes, she stated he loved to be hugged by her. She also stated he stayed for an hour during that visit....a lot can happen in one hour, that's all I'm gonna say there

[Edited 2/20/19 13:34pm]

Footnote: he may have arrived under the guise of wanting a hug, but I wouldn't doubt that he left with having had more than that

It does make me wonder. Especially with what she said about him saying that he was coming back for her. The letter he wrote to her as well. She seemed to have been on his mind in the early-mid 90's.

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

Again, as was discussed before in earlier posts - when she stated the sex was "normal" during her discussion with Toure, she had just spent several minutes explaining that the overly sexual persona he had been portraying on stage was not completely who he was in bed. She said it was very loving, and there was a give-and-take. The "normal" comment was in no way her implying that it wasn't romantic or special or enjoyable. Other women have stated this too. Mayte stated the same thing when she was asked that question. Carmen E - apparently during her reality show with her Ex - made a yawning gesture when someone asked her what sex was like with Prince. The point Susannah was making was that it was not the "over the top" porno/s&m type of sex that he often sang about.

*

Crystal Ball and Big Tall Wall were also written for her - both describing his sexual desire for her. When he sang FIML on the SOTT film he added "from the first moment I saw you girl, I knew you were the one for me, you were all that I dreamed of, my every little fantasy. In Big Tall Wall - "if I see you in a restaurant, ooh baby baby you're all I want, your sexy body, your curly brown hair, try to run if you want to - I don't care...." My point is, there is enough within his songs to show that he was just as sexually attracted to her as he was emotionally attached to her. I just think people don't acknowledge it, because they only think of him as being attracted to the "knock down, drag-out "centerfold" beauties - which he was, but he was also very attracted to her look and style - "you dress so smart, you talk so neat, ooh it's hard not to eat ya baby...".

*

Yes, she stated he loved to be hugged by her. She also stated he stayed for an hour during that visit....a lot can happen in one hour, that's all I'm gonna say there

[Edited 2/20/19 13:34pm]

^^^^^^^^^if this is the point she is making and you as well with the lyrics, then we can probably say it is a sage bet that his huge professions of love

in songs were "over the top" as well, right????

Not at all, because in his love songs he was not singing about the "overtly sexual" dynamic. He was singing about deeper feelings. Big Tall Wall was not a love song - it was his obsessive thinking about not wanting to lose her. Empty Room was a love song, FIML was a love song, Adore was a love song, etc. Even in the song "It" - he's not talking about crazy sex - he's just saying he thinks about being with her all the time, because she has that "something" that he desires - "I want to do it baby all the time, it feels so good it must be a crime..." He's not talking about kinky sex as he did with Automatic, Pheromone and others - he's talking about a deeper feeling during the sex, because he also loves her.

*

** With regard to his "over the top" sexual persona and songs - that was started way back with Dirty Mind to draw attention and separate himself musically and as a performer - and it worked. Not saying that he didn't also have a desire for more wild sex. I'm sure he had that too with certain girls. My point was that because he had more tender and loving sex with Susannah - and by the way, based on some of his lyrics in songs for her I think they also "mixed it up" a bit too - doesn't mean he wasn't physically attracted to her.

[Edited 2/20/19 14:49pm]

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Footnote: he may have arrived under the guise of wanting a hug, but I wouldn't doubt that he left with having had more than that

It does make me wonder. Especially with what she said about him saying that he was coming back for her. The letter he wrote to her as well. She seemed to have been on his mind in the early-mid 90's.

Yes, things are coming out to show that he was with her much longer, and then still wanting to be with her even in later years. I hope she writes the full story and includes more information about the dynamic and situation happening in the later years.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

It does make me wonder. Especially with what she said about him saying that he was coming back for her. The letter he wrote to her as well. She seemed to have been on his mind in the early-mid 90's.

Yes, things are coming out to show that he was with her much longer, and then still wanting to be with her even in later years. I hope she writes the full story and includes more information about the dynamic and situation happening in the later years.

Pink - when she told that story, if I were Toure I would have said, "he stayed for an hour...wow that's one loooong hug!!!" I know he was being respectful with not "digging" for more detail, but I was like, aaaagggghhh!! come on Toure! Get the scoop!!!!!!

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

It does make me wonder. Especially with what she said about him saying that he was coming back for her. The letter he wrote to her as well. She seemed to have been on his mind in the early-mid 90's.

Yes, things are coming out to show that he was with her much longer, and then still wanting to be with her even in later years. I hope she writes the full story and includes more information about the dynamic and situation happening in the later years.

I hope she does too. It seems his lyrics to some of the songs on the albums from around that time suggest something lke that may have been going on.

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, things are coming out to show that he was with her much longer, and then still wanting to be with her even in later years. I hope she writes the full story and includes more information about the dynamic and situation happening in the later years.

Pink - when she told that story, if I were Toure I would have said, "he stayed for an hour...wow that's one loooong hug!!!" I know he was being respectful with not "digging" for more detail, but I was like, aaaagggghhh!! come on Toure! Get the scoop!!!!!!

Lol I was too. I was wanting her to elaborate more on that visit even to give more of an idea of what his mindset was like. She said that he was very unhappy and when he got there he just kind of melted into her arms. It sounds like he was dealing with a lot emotionally.

violetcrush said:

I beg to differ....they did have a 10 year relationship. Relationships are many different things. They met when she was 16 and divorced when she was 26. As much as you'd like to, you simply cannot change history. Why does this fact trigger you so?

You are also free to "speculate" all you like about Prince's honesty when describing Mayte as his soulmate. Much the same way that I could say Prince proposing to Susannah was his consolation to her for removing her as lead of UTCM; which, btw, has been a consistent story throughout Prince lore.

Furthermore, Mayte danced the way Prince instructed her to. She followed his tutelage as did the vast majority of his love interests, protégés, etc. That was simply the way it was.

I'm curious....how do you know what type of sex Susannah and Prince had? Good heavens, Fly, indeed!

purplefam99 said:

Alan Leeds pointed out that in his later years Prince was singing " Motherless Child" (although I don't believe that is the official title of the song) and he felt that was very profound. Leeds felt there was something odd/not right there, the most foundational relationship among humans and all mammals (mother/child bond). If that isn't nurtured the way it should children will grow up always looking to get that "merging" with others . Many look to lovers hoping to be mothered/fathered. Actually that is quite unfair to the lovers as that was the parents original job and that nurturing is needed for their future children. Also you will never be able to do that anyway..putting a lover in a pedestal in love is all part of a sadistic/masochistic relationship dynamic that is guaranteed to disappoint. It is impossible for a lover to fill your heart like a mother does.

NotACleverName said:

violetcrush said:

Prince married Mayte when she was pregnant - sorry, but this has definitely come to light -by her own statements. They and she had stated back then that her original due date was mid November and that the baby was born premature in October. However, in one of her interviews during her stint on Hollywood Ex's she stated clearly that she carried the baby "to full term". It appears that may have been a "slip of the tongue" as they say, but it's on video, as I've watched it. That being the case, she would have conceived at some point in early January of 1996. This would also explain the rush for the wedding on February 14th 1996. It also makes no sense that Prince would have scheduled the release of his album and all of the press at the exact time she was supposed to give birth - however, scheduling all of that a month after the expected due date makes much more sense. Look, I'm in no way saying that he did not care for her or love her. However, the whole "soulmate" thing and "destined to be together" and "I think she may have been my sister in a former life" blah blah blah....sorry, I think that was PR "fluff" to support the situation, and Prince at his public relations (and quirkiest) best. He had completely re-configured the Emancipation track list during the time they were married as well to add the songs about the marriage and baby - look at the recording dates. By that November, he had tons of promotion to do for that release - including a major appearance on the most watched talk show on TV - Oprah. That interview is tough to watch now - knownig everything we know. You have consistently referred to his "10 year relationship" with Mayte, but for the first 5 years she was his employee and one of MANY that he publicly dated. He was not exclusively involved with her for 10 years. I'm not going to reference songs, but it is a fact that many of them during the 90's were referencing a relationship(s) that he was missing. There is no denying that piece.

I beg to differ....they did have a 10 year relationship. Relationships are many different things. They met when she was 16 and divorced when she was 26. As much as you'd like to, you simply cannot change history. Why does this fact trigger you so? You are also free to "speculate" all you like about Prince's honesty when describing Mayte as his soulmate. Much the same way that I could say Prince proposing to Susannah was his consolation to her for removing her as lead of UTCM; which, btw, has been a consistent story throughout Prince lore. Furthermore, Mayte danced the way Prince instructed her to. She followed his tutelage as did the vast majority of his love interests, protégés, etc. That was simply the way it was. I'm curious....how do you know what type of sex Susannah and Prince had? Good heavens, Fly, indeed!

Well....because she just had an almost 2 hour discussion with Toure, wherein she actually talked about their sex life, because he point blank asked her about it. So, there's that....

*

And, he put a lot of it into his songs, so there's also that

*

Mayte arrived at PP as a 17 yr old girl hired to be a backup dancer for Prince. They had a working relatiionship well before any type of romantic relationship. She has confirmed this as well. Same with Susannah. She knew Prince for a year before they officially became romantic or intimate. Same with Manuela - she worked for him for quite some time before they began a romantic relationship. My point was the time frame in which they were a "couple".

Krystalkisses said:

purplefam99 said:

Well there is the daddy complex where women sleep with men like their fathers Or are attracted to father figures. He could still have sex with SM and still had A motherly need being met at the same time that made the relationship what he needed on two levels, physical needs and emotional. I would say that given she said the sex was normal ( per Toure interview) that he was there more for the emotional mother stability way she had than the sex. Maybe. They don’t have to be separate. I think that is why he “needed a hug”. That was I feel her major role for his emotional health. I think that is a powerful role. More than their sex life. Also why is mama not a literal possibility? Everyone thinks “sista” is and that has long been a reference For girl/friend/love interest. [Edited 2/20/19 13:17pm] [Edited 2/20/19 13:24pm]

Alan Leeds pointed out that in his later years Prince was singing " Motherless Child" (although I don't believe that is the official title of the song) and he felt that was very profound. Leeds felt there was something odd/not right there, the most foundational relationship among humans and all mammals (mother/child bond). If that isn't nurtured the way it should children will grow up always looking to get that "merging" with others . Many look to lovers hoping to be mothered/fathered. Actually that is quite unfair to the lovers as that was the parents original job and that nurturing is needed for their future children. Also you will never be able to do that anyway..putting a lover in a pedestal in love is all part of a sadistic/masochistic relationship dynamic that is guaranteed to disappoint. It is impossible for a lover to fill your heart like a mother does.

I do agree that Prince had abandonment issues with his Mother. Alan Leeds has mentioned this in Toure's book and during the live panel when Toure was promoting his book back in 2013. However, I don't think Prince was looking for a Mother figure in his relationships with women. I think the issues with his Mother actually caused him not to trust women and/or let his guard down for fear of being hurt by them. He sings about it in Revelation - "there's a door you can walk through where there used to be a wall - ask me anything, as long as you catch me girl, whenever there's a fall.." he sang the lyrics like that during the first P&M show at PP.

*

His performance of Motherless Child in 1999 (it's actually a cover song) was extremely intense. Clearly the song resonated with him and was most likely connected to his feelings about his Mother. He sang about her in Reflection too.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Pink - when she told that story, if I were Toure I would have said, "he stayed for an hour...wow that's one loooong hug!!!" I know he was being respectful with not "digging" for more detail, but I was like, aaaagggghhh!! come on Toure! Get the scoop!!!!!!

Lol I was too. I was wanting her to elaborate more on that visit even to give more of an idea of what his mindset was like. She said that he was very unhappy and when he got there he just kind of melted into her arms. It sounds like he was dealing with a lot emotionally.

Yes, I would love to know the time frame in 1993, because he changed to the symbol on his birthday that year. His performance at the April '93 aftershow at the DNA Lounge in San Fransisco was intense. I know he ws sick, but his whole vibe was different. I love that show. He recited some of the lyrics to What's My Name before he had even recorded the song. Interestingly, he had a week off and was then doing a show in LA at Glam Slam. Hmmm.....

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Lol I was too. I was wanting her to elaborate more on that visit even to give more of an idea of what his mindset was like. She said that he was very unhappy and when he got there he just kind of melted into her arms. It sounds like he was dealing with a lot emotionally.

Yes, I would love to know the time frame in 1993, because he changed to the symbol on his birthday that year. His performance at the April '93 aftershow at the DNA Lounge in San Fransisco was intense. I know he ws sick, but his whole vibe was different. I love that show. He recited some of the lyrics to What's My Name before he had even recorded the song. Interestingly, he had a week off and was then doing a show in LA at Glam Slam. Hmmm.....

Interesting. I haven't seen that show. That era is not exactly my fave so I haven't spent a lot of time there. I do like the performances I've seen.

violetcrush said:

NotACleverName said:

violetcrush said: I beg to differ....they did have a 10 year relationship. Relationships are many different things. They met when she was 16 and divorced when she was 26. As much as you'd like to, you simply cannot change history. Why does this fact trigger you so? You are also free to "speculate" all you like about Prince's honesty when describing Mayte as his soulmate. Much the same way that I could say Prince proposing to Susannah was his consolation to her for removing her as lead of UTCM; which, btw, has been a consistent story throughout Prince lore. Furthermore, Mayte danced the way Prince instructed her to. She followed his tutelage as did the vast majority of his love interests, protégés, etc. That was simply the way it was. I'm curious....how do you know what type of sex Susannah and Prince had? Good heavens, Fly, indeed!

Well....because she just had an almost 2 hour discussion with Toure, wherein she actually talked about their sex life, because he point blank asked her about it. So, there's that....

*

And, he put a lot of it into his songs, so there's also that

*

Mayte arrived at PP as a 17 yr old girl hired to be a backup dancer for Prince. They had a working relatiionship well before any type of romantic relationship. She has confirmed this as well. Same with Susannah. She knew Prince for a year before they officially became romantic or intimate. Same with Manuela - she worked for him for quite some time before they began a romantic relationship. My point was the time frame in which they were a "couple".

They met when she was 15 or 16.