violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Hmm. Interesting. Now I didn't know that about Cat's dress. I had heard about Susannah's fave colors being peach and black and that being the reasoning behind Prince choosing them as the colors for the tour. I love how he slipped "Crucial" into the lyrics of "U Got The Look"

Oh yes, so many lyrical words repeated during that time - the song Crucial, the word crucial in both Adore and U Got The Look,

*

Cat Glover talking about SOTT cover:

*

The "Sign o' the Times" single cover...that was when Prince actually asked me to join his band. I had no idea what was going on. He asked me to go by his house in Beverly Hills and pick up a dress. I flew to Minneapolis the next day and I had no idea that was the dress I was supposed to wear. But, that dress was supposed to be for Susannah Melvoin, Wendy's twin sister. It just so happened I fit the dress. I came to find out that was the dress he wanted me to wear for the cover and he didn't let me know what it was for.

*

Would be really interesting to know whether or not Susannah was going to do the record cover or if she was going to be on stage for SOTT before she left MN.

Yep.I loved it when he would hide other song titles within the lyrics of another. I had never seen that interview before. Interesting! It's quite possible that may have been what was planned.

[Edited 1/11/19 18:35pm]

luvgirl said:

Going over some of the comments, It's thought provoking the difference in reaction on the interview from two to three of you. When I first heard this interview, it actually depressed me for a bit. It's cute to romanticize Prince with your favorite Prince girl but sometimes hearing the stories in comparison to real life can be so disheartening. I thought it was sad because the torment from that time was prevalent in Susannah's voice. Exposed by how difficult it was for her to admit that though Prince was the deceitful one, he was the one to ultimately end the relationship by asking her to move out. She became so lonely after having to leave his home and company that she finally packed her bags and left her apartment. Though she mentioned that he tried to get her back, it certainly wasn't all that he could have done if he was only seeing her casually for years - along with with practically all the other significant women from that time that he saw for years and years as well. When she spoke of the engagement disclosing that Prince never mentioned marriage again after the ring, it was sad to hear her say that she got to decorate his house instead - saying she was content with that over him honoring his proposal. It actually made me angry to hear her say that because I felt it was demeaning to her, and one of the reasons why I pointed out something that I respected her saying in the past, that she was happy she wasn't there anymore and most proud of her babies. [Edited 1/11/19 19:08pm]

I see the story quite differently. First and foremost, she mentioned several times in both her first and second discussion with Toure, that they were very much in love, that there were many beautiful moments with him, that making music with him was very exciting, that she, Wendy and Lisa had a very deep connection with Prince, that it was also great to have their Brothers playing with them as well, that she wouldn't trade the experience, that she was very blessed to have not only a working relationship but also a very intimate relationship with Prince too. She stated that he was the lover of her life - not just from a sexual standpoint, but he gave her the experience that made her the person she is today. I'd say those are quite poignant words which describe a special time in her life and a special connection she had with Prince.

*

Regarding the engagement - she specifically stated that while yes, it was strange that there were no plans discussed about a wedding, she was not in that frame of mind. She said she was not that girl who always dreamed of her wedding day and making plans for a wedding. She said she didn't really care about that. She stated her way of planning a future with Prince was to get the house ready and decorate it for the two of them. Toure even stated, "you were building the nest". She didn't say she "became lonely after leaving his home". She actually stated that although she had moved the relationship was the same - she was with him 6 out of 7 days of the week, and the day she didn't see him she figured he was bringing another woman around. Her description of being lonely with him was also relating to the fact that the loneliness came from not being able to share feelings back forth with him. She said he could not have conversations like that. He would not talk to her when he was upset or down. She said it would play out physically (I guess with sex) or in his music. I would imagine it gets lonely when you cannot have a regular conversation with your partner, or feel like you can let your guard down and share your feelings. This is what she was talking about when she desribed the day that Prince drove to her house to try to get her to go back to MN with him. She told him she didn't want to be alone anymore. He told her she wouldn't, because he would be there with her. She said she didn't know how to telll him that was the problem - in other words, even with him there it was lonely, because he was not capable of real communication of sharing his feelings.

*

Again, regarding Susannah packing up and leaving MN - I would say the fact that Prince literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to try to convince her to come back to MN with him was quite an effort to try to get her back. I think when she finally did pack her things and fly back to LA he thought, holy shit - she really left this time. I've got to go get her to come back. If you listen to Come Home, 101, and Wally his mindset and feelings are all there in the lyrics. He's miserable and he wants her back with him. From that point on, it seems the relationship or when they saw each other was more on Susannah's terms. She stated he was flying her all over Europe through the SOTT tour. She said this went on for years, so I would imagine it was the same for LoveSexy. She was on stage with him Sept '88 for the MN show.

*

In looking at many of Prince's songs about love and heartbreak - with the exception of probably just a few - the lyrics give the impression that he was this extremely giving and loving person, and that all he wanted in return was that same love back. He was usually the victim and the one being hurt by his lover. However, if you look at the story Susannah has told, Vanity's story, Mayte's story - it is clear that it was his complexities and dysfunctional behavior in the relationship that pushed the women away from him. And once they finally gave up and walked away, then he wrote songs about the love and heartache. So, to the public listening to these heart wrenching songs we think "oh poor Prince, all he wanted to do was love that woman, and she hurt him and left him"

*

The only song during this time where he admits to a fault of his own - the monogamy issue - is Forever In My Life when he says "juggling hearts in a 3 ring circus someday will drive a body down to the ground..." So, at last he was at least admitting some fault, however, writing about it and actually changing the behavior are two very different things.

[Edited 1/11/19 19:51pm]

[Edited 1/11/19 19:52pm]

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

Going over some of the comments, It's thought provoking the difference in reaction on the interview from two to three of you. When I first heard this interview, it actually depressed me for a bit. It's cute to romanticize Prince with your favorite Prince girl but sometimes hearing the stories in comparison to real life can be so disheartening. I thought it was sad because the torment from that time was prevalent in Susannah's voice. Exposed by how difficult it was for her to admit that though Prince was the deceitful one, he was the one to ultimately end the relationship by asking her to move out. She became so lonely after having to leave his home and company that she finally packed her bags and left her apartment. Though she mentioned that he tried to get her back, it certainly wasn't all that he could have done if he was only seeing her casually for years - along with with practically all the other significant women from that time that he saw for years and years as well. When she spoke of the engagement disclosing that Prince never mentioned marriage again after the ring, it was sad to hear her say that she got to decorate his house instead - saying she was content with that over him honoring his proposal. It actually made me angry to hear her say that because I felt it was demeaning to her, and one of the reasons why I pointed out something that I respected her saying in the past, that she was happy she wasn't there anymore and most proud of her babies. [Edited 1/11/19 19:08pm]

I see the story quite differently. First and foremost, she mentioned several times in both her first and second discussion with Toure, that they were very much in love, that there were many beautiful moments with him, that making music with him was very exciting, that she, Wendy and Lisa had a very deep connection with Prince, that it was also great to have their Brothers playing with them as well, that she wouldn't trade the experience, that she was very blessed to have not only a working relationship but also a very intimate relationship with Prince too. She stated that he was the lover of her life - not just from a sexual standpoint, but he gave her the experience that made her the person she is today. I'd say those are quite poignant words which describe a special time in her life and a special connection she had with Prince.

*

Regarding the engagement - she specifically stated that while yes, it was strange that there were no plans discussed about a wedding, she was not in that frame of mind. She said she was not that girl who always dreamed of her wedding day and making plans for a wedding. She said she didn't really care about that. She stated her way of planning a future with Prince was to get the house ready and decorate it for the two of them. Toure even stated, "you were building the nest". She didn't say she "became lonely after leaving his home". She actually stated that although she had moved the relationship was the same - she was with him 6 out of 7 days of the week, and the day she didn't see him she figured he was bringing another woman around. Her description of being lonely with him was also relating to the fact that the loneliness came from not being able to share feelings back forth with him. She said he could not have conversations like that. He would not talk to her when he was upset or down. She said it would play out physically (I guess with sex) or in his music. I would imagine it gets lonely when you cannot have a regular conversation with your partner, or feel like you can let your guard down and share your feelings. This is what she was talking about when she desribed the day that Prince drove to her house to try to get her to go back to MN with him. She told him she didn't want to be alone anymore. He told her she wouldn't, because he would be there with her. She said she didn't know how to telll him that was the problem - in other words, even with him there it was lonely, because he was not capable of real communication of sharing his feelings.

*

Again, regarding Susannah packing up and leaving MN - I would say the fact that Prince literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to try to convince her to come back to MN with him was quite an effort to try to get her back. I think when she finally did pack her things and fly back to LA he thought, holy shit - she really left this time. I've got to go get her to come back. If you listen to Come Home, 101, and Wally his mindset and feelings are all there in the lyrics. He's miserable and he wants her back with him. From that point on, it seems the relationship or when they saw each other was more on Susannah's terms. She stated he was flying her all over Europe through the SOTT tour. She said this went on for years, so I would imagine it was the same for LoveSexy. She was on stage with him Sept '88 for the MN show.

*

In looking at many of Prince's songs about love and heartbreak - with the exception of probably just a few - the lyrics give the impression that he was this extremely giving and loving person, and that all he wanted in return was that same love back. He was usually the victim and the one being hurt by his lover. However, if you look at the story Susannah has told, Vanity's story, Mayte's story - it is clear that it was his complexities and dysfunctional behavior in the relationship that pushed the women away from him. And once they finally gave up and walked away, then he wrote songs about the love and heartache. So, to the public listening to these heart wrenching songs we think "oh poor Prince, all he wanted to do was love that woman, and she hurt him and left him"

*

The only song during this time where he admits to a fault of his own - the monogamy issue - is Forever In My Life when he says "juggling hearts in a 3 ring circus someday will drive a body down to the ground..." So, at last he was at least admitting some fault, however, writing about it and actually changing the behavior are two very different things.

[Edited 1/11/19 19:51pm]

[Edited 1/11/19 19:52pm]

Yeah...this stuff is a big part of why I sometimes sound off so easily and ask for more care to be taken with assumptions or implications about women who were involved with P. The women surely could feel pitted against one another back then, and as OF4S describes, they end up continuing to be pitted against one another now. If a woman has given her own version of how certain things went down, it seems reasonable to check out what she had to say before writing about how those particular events "probably" happened.

There end up being so many fraught angles to the larger picture. It is easy to understand how fans might end up setting women up against one another, simply in the course of making a point.

I really feel for these women. Above and beyond the strain of the rock star situation, P really did seem to have some issues with trust, attachment, etc., and it all seems to have put many of the women through the wringer. I think it's very natural to be upset, first and foremost, on behalf of the women. I know I am. I'm honestly also sad for P because someone reacting the way he did seems likely to have been going through pain of his own.

Maybe it's true of most of us human beings, but it's pretty amazing to me how P could show such awareness and insight into struggles (just one example being the Computer Blue hallway speech, something he wrote as a very young man), yet also seem unwilling or unable (for a good long time at least) to move much beyond the torment he describes in that speech.

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Oh, I can assure you that I am an "out of box" thinker, but come on!! The majority of that song speaks to a romantic love, not a relationship between a guy and his housekeeper

And, here's food for thought - if it was such a "throw-away" song, and didn't mean much to Prince, why did it stay in his set list for the rest of his life??

I see that you are a relatively new member so perhaps you haven't had a chance to research this properly.

1. NC2U didn't "stay" in his setlist after it was released on The Family. Prince didn't start playing it consistently in concert until the early 90s, after Sinead's cover made it a huge hit.

2. It's well documented that Nothing Compares 2 U was, in part, inspired by his personal assistant/housekeeper. Even PrinceVault, which is a very reputable and oft-referenced knowledge base of Prince history states this:

Prince was partly inspired in writing the the song by Sandy Scipioni, his personal assistant in the 1980s, who had to leave suddenly after her father's death (Prince and Scipioni were not in a romantic relationship, however).

That he was able to write a song about something as quotidien as his housekeeper leaving and turn it into a heartfelt song about loneliness just speaks to his musical talent.

3. Susannah's recollections (like those of many from Prince's past) seem to be faulty at best, revisionist at worst.

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

Going over some of the comments, It's thought provoking the difference in reaction on the interview from two to three of you. When I first heard this interview, it actually depressed me for a bit. It's cute to romanticize Prince with your favorite Prince girl but sometimes hearing the stories in comparison to real life can be so disheartening. I thought it was sad because the torment from that time was prevalent in Susannah's voice. Exposed by how difficult it was for her to admit that though Prince was the deceitful one, he was the one to ultimately end the relationship by asking her to move out. She became so lonely after having to leave his home and company that she finally packed her bags and left her apartment. Though she mentioned that he tried to get her back, it certainly wasn't all that he could have done if he was only seeing her casually for years - along with with practically all the other significant women from that time that he saw for years and years as well. When she spoke of the engagement disclosing that Prince never mentioned marriage again after the ring, it was sad to hear her say that she got to decorate his house instead - saying she was content with that over him honoring his proposal. It actually made me angry to hear her say that because I felt it was demeaning to her, and one of the reasons why I pointed out something that I respected her saying in the past, that she was happy she wasn't there anymore and most proud of her babies. [Edited 1/11/19 19:08pm]

I see the story quite differently. First and foremost, she mentioned several times in both her first and second discussion with Toure, that they were very much in love, that there were many beautiful moments with him, that making music with him was very exciting, that she, Wendy and Lisa had a very deep connection with Prince, that it was also great to have their Brothers playing with them as well, that she wouldn't trade the experience, that she was very blessed to have not only a working relationship but also a very intimate relationship with Prince too. She stated that he was the lover of her life - not just from a sexual standpoint, but he gave her the experience that made her the person she is today. I'd say those are quite poignant words which describe a special time in her life and a special connection she had with Prince.

*

Regarding the engagement - she specifically stated that while yes, it was strange that there were no plans discussed about a wedding, she was not in that frame of mind. She said she was not that girl who always dreamed of her wedding day and making plans for a wedding. She said she didn't really care about that. She stated her way of planning a future with Prince was to get the house ready and decorate it for the two of them. Toure even stated, "you were building the nest". She didn't say she "became lonely after leaving his home". She actually stated that although she had moved the relationship was the same - she was with him 6 out of 7 days of the week, and the day she didn't see him she figured he was bringing another woman around. Her description of being lonely with him was also relating to the fact that the loneliness came from not being able to share feelings back forth with him. She said he could not have conversations like that. He would not talk to her when he was upset or down. She said it would play out physically (I guess with sex) or in his music. I would imagine it gets lonely when you cannot have a regular conversation with your partner, or feel like you can let your guard down and share your feelings. This is what she was talking about when she desribed the day that Prince drove to her house to try to get her to go back to MN with him. She told him she didn't want to be alone anymore. He told her she wouldn't, because he would be there with her. She said she didn't know how to telll him that was the problem - in other words, even with him there it was lonely, because he was not capable of real communication of sharing his feelings.

*

Again, regarding Susannah packing up and leaving MN - I would say the fact that Prince literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to try to convince her to come back to MN with him was quite an effort to try to get her back. I think when she finally did pack her things and fly back to LA he thought, holy shit - she really left this time. I've got to go get her to come back. If you listen to Come Home, 101, and Wally his mindset and feelings are all there in the lyrics. He's miserable and he wants her back with him. From that point on, it seems the relationship or when they saw each other was more on Susannah's terms. She stated he was flying her all over Europe through the SOTT tour. She said this went on for years, so I would imagine it was the same for LoveSexy. She was on stage with him Sept '88 for the MN show.

*

In looking at many of Prince's songs about love and heartbreak - with the exception of probably just a few - the lyrics give the impression that he was this extremely giving and loving person, and that all he wanted in return was that same love back. He was usually the victim and the one being hurt by his lover. However, if you look at the story Susannah has told, Vanity's story, Mayte's story - it is clear that it was his complexities and dysfunctional behavior in the relationship that pushed the women away from him. And once they finally gave up and walked away, then he wrote songs about the love and heartache. So, to the public listening to these heart wrenching songs we think "oh poor Prince, all he wanted to do was love that woman, and she hurt him and left him"

*

The only song during this time where he admits to a fault of his own - the monogamy issue - is Forever In My Life when he says "juggling hearts in a 3 ring circus someday will drive a body down to the ground..." So, at last he was at least admitting some fault, however, writing about it and actually changing the behavior are two very different things.

[Edited 1/11/19 19:51pm]

[Edited 1/11/19 19:52pm]

I thought what she said about feeling alone while with him due to him being unable to express his feelings to her was very sad and I wonder if that got better with time. I remember in the letter Mayte supposedly wrote to Prince that was published in the Npg Magazine,there was something in it about him not talking to her for a while and her expressing her frustration to him over it. What Susannah said about him not participating in things such as ordering food and having someone else do it was interesting to me. Devin said that when they went out,he'd make her order for them too and when she asked him why she said he replied that he wanted her to do it. I suppose during that time he was more shy or didn't want to talk to people he didn't know,Susannah said that he remained that way throughout his life and was still like that until the end. He did at least seem to be more relaxed in that regard the last few years which was nice to see. I wonder if he may have still had those issues with vulneralbility and communication in his personal relationships. It seems that he may have from what some close to him have said.

Last thing -- even your girl Susannah had doubts "Nothing Compares 2 U" was about her. In Duane Tudahl's PR Studio Session book (page 344 of the First Edition Hardcover) he writes,

[Edited 1/11/19 21:51pm]

jone70 said:

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said: And, here's food for thought - if it was such a "throw-away" song, and didn't mean much to Prince, why did it stay in his set list for the rest of his life??

I see that you are a relatively new member so perhaps you haven't had a chance to research this properly.

1. NC2U didn't "stay" in his setlist after it was released on The Family. Prince didn't start playing it consistently in concert until the early 90s, after Sinead's cover made it a huge hit.

2. It's well documented that Nothing Compares 2 U was, in part, inspired by his personal assistant/housekeeper. Even PrinceVault, which is a very reputable and oft-referenced knowledge base of Prince history states this:

Prince was partly inspired in writing the the song by Sandy Scipioni, his personal assistant in the 1980s, who had to leave suddenly after her father's death (Prince and Scipioni were not in a romantic relationship, however).

That he was able to write a song about something as quotidien as his housekeeper leaving and turn it into a heartfelt song about loneliness just speaks to his musical talent.

3. Susannah's recollections (like those of many from Prince's past) seem to be faulty at best, revisionist at worst.

No, I can assure you that I have researched the information properly. I am a newer member, however, not new to Prince's music. I was 17 when Purple Rain was released, so I was around for all of it. I remember when the 1999 and LRC videos were first aired on MTV.

*

Again, the key words are "Prince was partly inspired by Sancy Scipioni..." However, if you look at my prior posts on this thread, I also copied Susan Rogers most recent statement about the fact that Prince was also dating Susannah Melvoin who was becoming more important than any other girl he had dated.

*

The song is clearly a love song and not describing a platonic relationship between Prince and his housekeeper.

*

You know, the fact of the matter is this - Susannah was actually physically there with Prince, and intimately involved with him - NONE of us were there though. Not only was she there, but she was also singing with him on the original demo, and the co-lead on the finished song. So, I'd say that also gives her a heck of a lot more credibility than you, me, and any other random Org member who didn't know Prince from Adam.

jone70 said:

Last thing -- even your girl Susannah had doubts "Nothing Compares 2 U" was about her. In Duane Tudahl's PR Studio Session book (page 344 of the First Edition Hardcover) he writes,

Melvoin has never been certain of the song's origin and has avoided too much speculation on it. In 2011 she was asked abou this and replied, "Maybe...yeah, but it's not like he said, 'Babe, I wrote this song for you.' (laughs)"

So like I said, her memory is faulty and/or revisionist. In 2011 when Prince was alive she wasn't sure. But 8 years later she's suddenly certain it's about her?


Also in the same section Tudahl writes that Jerome said,

"I was engaged to get married to a girl in Los Angeles. She wanted me to quit music. I was hurting when we broke up. I used to go to Prince with all my problems so Prince wrote 'Nothing Compares 2 U' about the way I felt."

So now we have three different people - each of whom worked and knew Prince very well - saying it's about three other people. #facts


.typo edits

[Edited 1/11/19 21:51pm]

Melvoin has never been certain of the song's origin and has avoided too much speculation on it. In 2011 she was asked abou this and replied, "Maybe...yeah, but it's not like he said, 'Babe, I wrote this song for you.' (laughs)"

Well, considering the fact that Susannah was feuding with Prince by this point over using the name The Family to release the fDeluxe record, I would imagine she was not going to "declare" anything with regard to her relationship with Prince at that particular time. Read her interview with Rockerzine magazine in 2013 - she was opening up about the conflict with Prince and past issues. She was pissed off.

*

"I was engaged to get married to a girl in Los Angeles. She wanted me to quit music. I was hurting when we broke up. I used to go to Prince with all my problems so Prince wrote 'Nothing Compares 2 U' about the way I felt."

Since when did Prince EVER write a song about some other guy's personal romance?? Come on! If I recall, this comment was made way back in the day, and was most likely a tactic in order to avoid revealing any detail about the inspiration for the song.

jone70 said:

Last thing -- even your girl Susannah had doubts "Nothing Compares 2 U" was about her. In Duane Tudahl's PR Studio Session book (page 344 of the First Edition Hardcover) he writes,

Melvoin has never been certain of the song's origin and has avoided too much speculation on it. In 2011 she was asked abou this and replied, "Maybe...yeah, but it's not like he said, 'Babe, I wrote this song for you.' (laughs)"

So like I said, her memory is faulty and/or revisionist. In 2011 when Prince was alive she wasn't sure. But 8 years later she's suddenly certain it's about her?


Also in the same section Tudahl writes that Jerome said,

"I was engaged to get married to a girl in Los Angeles. She wanted me to quit music. I was hurting when we broke up. I used to go to Prince with all my problems so Prince wrote 'Nothing Compares 2 U' about the way I felt."

I agree with you. Especially now that Prince cannot comment, she likely feels freer to "embellish"

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

I see the story quite differently. First and foremost, she mentioned several times in both her first and second discussion with Toure, that they were very much in love, that there were many beautiful moments with him, that making music with him was very exciting, that she, Wendy and Lisa had a very deep connection with Prince, that it was also great to have their Brothers playing with them as well, that she wouldn't trade the experience, that she was very blessed to have not only a working relationship but also a very intimate relationship with Prince too. She stated that he was the lover of her life - not just from a sexual standpoint, but he gave her the experience that made her the person she is today. I'd say those are quite poignant words which describe a special time in her life and a special connection she had with Prince.

*

Regarding the engagement - she specifically stated that while yes, it was strange that there were no plans discussed about a wedding, she was not in that frame of mind. She said she was not that girl who always dreamed of her wedding day and making plans for a wedding. She said she didn't really care about that. She stated her way of planning a future with Prince was to get the house ready and decorate it for the two of them. Toure even stated, "you were building the nest". She didn't say she "became lonely after leaving his home". She actually stated that although she had moved the relationship was the same - she was with him 6 out of 7 days of the week, and the day she didn't see him she figured he was bringing another woman around. Her description of being lonely with him was also relating to the fact that the loneliness came from not being able to share feelings back forth with him. She said he could not have conversations like that. He would not talk to her when he was upset or down. She said it would play out physically (I guess with sex) or in his music. I would imagine it gets lonely when you cannot have a regular conversation with your partner, or feel like you can let your guard down and share your feelings. This is what she was talking about when she desribed the day that Prince drove to her house to try to get her to go back to MN with him. She told him she didn't want to be alone anymore. He told her she wouldn't, because he would be there with her. She said she didn't know how to telll him that was the problem - in other words, even with him there it was lonely, because he was not capable of real communication of sharing his feelings.

*

Again, regarding Susannah packing up and leaving MN - I would say the fact that Prince literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to try to convince her to come back to MN with him was quite an effort to try to get her back. I think when she finally did pack her things and fly back to LA he thought, holy shit - she really left this time. I've got to go get her to come back. If you listen to Come Home, 101, and Wally his mindset and feelings are all there in the lyrics. He's miserable and he wants her back with him. From that point on, it seems the relationship or when they saw each other was more on Susannah's terms. She stated he was flying her all over Europe through the SOTT tour. She said this went on for years, so I would imagine it was the same for LoveSexy. She was on stage with him Sept '88 for the MN show.

*

In looking at many of Prince's songs about love and heartbreak - with the exception of probably just a few - the lyrics give the impression that he was this extremely giving and loving person, and that all he wanted in return was that same love back. He was usually the victim and the one being hurt by his lover. However, if you look at the story Susannah has told, Vanity's story, Mayte's story - it is clear that it was his complexities and dysfunctional behavior in the relationship that pushed the women away from him. And once they finally gave up and walked away, then he wrote songs about the love and heartache. So, to the public listening to these heart wrenching songs we think "oh poor Prince, all he wanted to do was love that woman, and she hurt him and left him"

*

The only song during this time where he admits to a fault of his own - the monogamy issue - is Forever In My Life when he says "juggling hearts in a 3 ring circus someday will drive a body down to the ground..." So, at last he was at least admitting some fault, however, writing about it and actually changing the behavior are two very different things.

[Edited 1/11/19 19:51pm]

[Edited 1/11/19 19:52pm]

I thought what she said about feeling alone while with him due to him being unable to express his feelings to her was very sad and I wonder if that got better with time. I remember in the letter Mayte supposedly wrote to Prince that was published in the Npg Magazine,there was something in it about him not talking to her for a while and her expressing her frustration to him over it. What Susannah said about him not participating in things such as ordering food and having someone else do it was interesting to me. Devin said that when they went out,he'd make her order for them too and when she asked him why she said he replied that he wanted her to do it. I suppose during that time he was more shy or didn't want to talk to people he didn't know,Susannah said that he remained that way throughout his life and was still like that until the end. He did at least seem to be more relaxed in that regard the last few years which was nice to see. I wonder if he may have still had those issues with vulneralbility and communication in his personal relationships. It seems that he may have from what some close to him have said.

If the letter you are referring to was the one faxed to Controversy magazine - that was a marketing/PR tactic done by Prince in 1993 after he had just change his name. It was done as if written by Mayte, but it was a ploy to get information out about the Gold album. He had severed ties with WB by this point, so marketing was all done by his camp. Although, I'm sure Mayte experienced the same if not worse behavior, based on the business/career stress he was under during that time. I'm guessing she had it the worst - exremely young to handle his complexities.

*

I think the story of ordering for him was Prince just being Prince. He wanted things done for him at all times. It got worse as the years went on. You've heard the "I want you to get a Camel here for my video that I'm shooting at 3:00am story, right?!

*

Sadly, I don't think those relationship issues ever got better. It was either something that was just in him and unchangeable, or it wasn't "fixed" early enough in his life to allow for better relationships.

violetcrush said:

jone70 said:

I see that you are a relatively new member so perhaps you haven't had a chance to research this properly.

1. NC2U didn't "stay" in his setlist after it was released on The Family. Prince didn't start playing it consistently in concert until the early 90s, after Sinead's cover made it a huge hit.

2. It's well documented that Nothing Compares 2 U was, in part, inspired by his personal assistant/housekeeper. Even PrinceVault, which is a very reputable and oft-referenced knowledge base of Prince history states this:

Prince was partly inspired in writing the the song by Sandy Scipioni, his personal assistant in the 1980s, who had to leave suddenly after her father's death (Prince and Scipioni were not in a romantic relationship, however).

That he was able to write a song about something as quotidien as his housekeeper leaving and turn it into a heartfelt song about loneliness just speaks to his musical talent.

3. Susannah's recollections (like those of many from Prince's past) seem to be faulty at best, revisionist at worst.

No, I can assure you that I have researched the information properly. I am a newer member, however, not new to Prince's music. I was 17 when Purple Rain was released, so I was around for all of it. I remember when the 1999 and LRC videos were first aired on MTV.

*

Again, the key words are "Prince was partly inspired by Sancy Scipioni..." However, if you look at my prior posts on this thread, I also copied Susan Rogers most recent statement about the fact that Prince was also dating Susannah Melvoin who was becoming more important than any other girl he had dated.

*

The song is clearly a love song and not describing a platonic relationship between Prince and his housekeeper.

*

You know, the fact of the matter is this - Susannah was actually physically there with Prince, and intimately involved with him - NONE of us were there though. Not only was she there, but she was also singing with him on the original demo, and the co-lead on the finished song. So, I'd say that also gives her a heck of a lot more credibility than you, me, and any other random Org member who didn't know Prince from Adam.

Violet-I find it offensive when orgers denigrate new members. This poster has a very valid point re: Tudahl's interview with Susannah in 2011 which I feel shows more honesty on her part. (Prince was alive then as well)

Re: NC2U, Prince likely wanted to "re-claim" it from Sinead.

I feel strongly that Susannah is being revisionist.

[Edited 1/11/19 22:26pm]

peggyon said:

jone70 said:

Last thing -- even your girl Susannah had doubts "Nothing Compares 2 U" was about her. In Duane Tudahl's PR Studio Session book (page 344 of the First Edition Hardcover) he writes,

Peggyon said:

I agree with you. Especially now that Prince cannot comment, she likely feels freer to "embellish"

*

Violetcrush said:

*

Oh, okay. Then it would stand to reason that Mayte, Jill Jones, Devin D, Jimmy Jam, Andre, Eric Leeds, etc - who have all written books and/or have done extensive interviews, all likely feel freer to "embellish" now too??

*

Oh, and here is an old video with Wendy and Lisa on their Eroica tour in 1990 where iit is stated point blank that the song Nothing Compares 2 U was written for and about Susannah. The discussion about the song starts at 3:30:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqAohMSahc

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

No, I can assure you that I have researched the information properly. I am a newer member, however, not new to Prince's music. I was 17 when Purple Rain was released, so I was around for all of it. I remember when the 1999 and LRC videos were first aired on MTV.

*

Again, the key words are "Prince was partly inspired by Sancy Scipioni..." However, if you look at my prior posts on this thread, I also copied Susan Rogers most recent statement about the fact that Prince was also dating Susannah Melvoin who was becoming more important than any other girl he had dated.

*

The song is clearly a love song and not describing a platonic relationship between Prince and his housekeeper.

*

You know, the fact of the matter is this - Susannah was actually physically there with Prince, and intimately involved with him - NONE of us were there though. Not only was she there, but she was also singing with him on the original demo, and the co-lead on the finished song. So, I'd say that also gives her a heck of a lot more credibility than you, me, and any other random Org member who didn't know Prince from Adam.

Violet-I find it offensive when orgers denigrate new members. This poster has a very valid point re: Tudahl's interview with Susannah in 2011 which I feel shows more honesty on her part. (Prince was alive then as well)

Re: NC2U, Prince likely wanted to "re-claim" it from Sinead.

I feel strongly that Susannah is being revisionist.

[Edited 1/11/19 22:26pm]

Peggyon: ????? If you look back at the original post you will see that poster was actually denigrating ME about being a relatively new member - not the other way around. You commented on my response to that member.

*

Make sure you watch the video I posted above on #92

[Edited 1/11/19 22:41pm]

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Peggyon said:

I agree with you. Especially now that Prince cannot comment, she likely feels freer to "embellish"

*

Violetcrush said:

*

Oh, okay. Then it would stand to reason that Mayte, Jill Jones, Devin D, Jimmy Jam, Andre, Eric Leeds, etc - who have all written books and/or have done extensive interviews, all likely feel freer to "embellish" now too??

*

Oh, and here is an old video with Wendy and Lisa on their Eroica tour in 1990 where iit is stated point blank that the song Nothing Compares 2 U was written for and about Susannah. The discussion about the song starts at 3:30:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqAohMSahc

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

You have an excuse for everything that doesn't fit your "This song is absolutely about Susannah" theory. You don't want to believe anything well-documented by others but yet you insist all of us to take everything Susannah says as the gospel. You don't get to cherry pick facts. You have to acknowledge that other people who were with Prince when he recorded the song (e.g. Susan Rogers, whose idea it was to start and catalogue his Vault ffs) have said it was about someone other than Susannah. Who, by the way, wasn't there when it was first recorded (Tudahl p. 343: "With only his engineer Susan Rogers in attendance, he recorded one of his most emotional tracks...") and she wasn't even in Minneapolis as he sent the track to her *after* Eric did the saxophone overdubs (Tudahl pp347-8).

And yes, all of them. From Chris Moon to Sheila to Mayte to Kiran to Judith are freer to embellish now because if Prince were still alive they'd still be keeping their mouths shut. The Estate is a dumpster fire so it's up to us to make sure his legacy is being properly recorded for posterity and history. Repeating misstatements ad naseum is not helpful in this regard because it only serves to confuse fact and fiction -- especially for new fans who don't know what is actually correct. I've cited several reputable sources that discusse the inspiration for Nothing Compares 2 U. No one is saying it couldn't be partially about Susannah, but you are saying it's 100% only about her and no one else; and that's been proven to be untrue.

grammar edit

[Edited 1/11/19 23:00pm]

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Violet-I find it offensive when orgers denigrate new members. This poster has a very valid point re: Tudahl's interview with Susannah in 2011 which I feel shows more honesty on her part. (Prince was alive then as well)

Re: NC2U, Prince likely wanted to "re-claim" it from Sinead.

I feel strongly that Susannah is being revisionist.

[Edited 1/11/19 22:26pm]

Peggyon: ????? If you look back at the original post you will see that poster was actually denigrating ME about being a relatively new member - not the other way around. You commented on my response to that member.

*

Make sure you watch the video I posted above on #92

[Edited 1/11/19 22:41pm]

No one is denigrating anyone. I didn't criticize or disparage you. I just noticed you joined within the last three years so thought perhaps you hadn't had a chance to get up to speed on Prince's vast catalogue in full.

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I thought what she said about feeling alone while with him due to him being unable to express his feelings to her was very sad and I wonder if that got better with time. I remember in the letter Mayte supposedly wrote to Prince that was published in the Npg Magazine,there was something in it about him not talking to her for a while and her expressing her frustration to him over it. What Susannah said about him not participating in things such as ordering food and having someone else do it was interesting to me. Devin said that when they went out,he'd make her order for them too and when she asked him why she said he replied that he wanted her to do it. I suppose during that time he was more shy or didn't want to talk to people he didn't know,Susannah said that he remained that way throughout his life and was still like that until the end. He did at least seem to be more relaxed in that regard the last few years which was nice to see. I wonder if he may have still had those issues with vulneralbility and communication in his personal relationships. It seems that he may have from what some close to him have said.

If the letter you are referring to was the one faxed to Controversy magazine - that was a marketing/PR tactic done by Prince in 1993 after he had just change his name. It was done as if written by Mayte, but it was a ploy to get information out about the Gold album. He had severed ties with WB by this point, so marketing was all done by his camp. Although, I'm sure Mayte experienced the same if not worse behavior, based on the business/career stress he was under during that time. I'm guessing she had it the worst - exremely young to handle his complexities.

*

I think the story of ordering for him was Prince just being Prince. He wanted things done for him at all times. It got worse as the years went on. You've heard the "I want you to get a Camel here for my video that I'm shooting at 3:00am story, right?!

*

Sadly, I don't think those relationship issues ever got better. It was either something that was just in him and unchangeable, or it wasn't "fixed" early enough in his life to allow for better relationships.

Yes,I was thinking it was likely for PR and I wondered if Prince actually was the one who composed the letter. I'm sure that Mayte did deal with quite her share. Yes,I'm familiar with the camel story,though I don't recall what year it was said to have taken place. From what Susannah said,it seemed Prince was almost elated that he didn't have to do those little things for himself. He appeared to have relaxed somewhat in that respect to me and seemed to be more laid back and self sufficient from 2004 on. Morris Hayes mentioned in his interview with the Prince Podcast that Prince had started going out on his own and was doing things like shopping,going for coffee and riding the bike he had bought for him. He said that he hadn't thought that he could do that before and it was one way he had changed. .

*

Violetcrush said:

*

Oh, okay. Then it would stand to reason that Mayte, Jill Jones, Devin D, Jimmy Jam, Andre, Eric Leeds, etc - who have all written books and/or have done extensive interviews, all likely feel freer to "embellish" now too??

*

Oh, and here is an old video with Wendy and Lisa on their Eroica tour in 1990 where iit is stated point blank that the song Nothing Compares 2 U was written for and about Susannah. The discussion about the song starts at 3:30:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqAohMSahc

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

Yes, they do all embellish and with each interview it gets worse. Heck BM said he choreographed Purple Rain, Kim Berry said she worked with him for 26 or 30 years, when she hasn't and come to find out she didn't even work for him 6 years before his death. I forget if it was Wendy or Lisa who said they taught him about Jazz....and don't even get me started on Andre.

I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on believing everything out of Susannah's mouth, when it's been shown to you several times on this thread, that she changes her stories, they all do.

Right! I forgot about Kim and the lenghth of her employment. Kiran is another one who has like doubled the amount of time she supposedly worked for him.

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Peggyon said:

I agree with you. Especially now that Prince cannot comment, she likely feels freer to "embellish"

*

Violetcrush said:

*

Oh, okay. Then it would stand to reason that Mayte, Jill Jones, Devin D, Jimmy Jam, Andre, Eric Leeds, etc - who have all written books and/or have done extensive interviews, all likely feel freer to "embellish" now too??

*

Oh, and here is an old video with Wendy and Lisa on their Eroica tour in 1990 where iit is stated point blank that the song Nothing Compares 2 U was written for and about Susannah. The discussion about the song starts at 3:30:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZqAohMSahc

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

Thanks for sharing the video. I hadn't seen that.

jone70 said:

violetcrush said:

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

You have an excuse for everything that doesn't fit your "This song is absolutely about Susannah" theory. You don't want to believe anything well-documented by others but yet you insist all of us to take everything Susannah says as the gospel. You don't get to cherry pick facts. You have to acknowledge that other people who were with Prince when he recorded the song (e.g. Susan Rogers, whose idea it was to start and catalogue his Vault ffs) have said it was about someone other than Susannah. Who, by the way, wasn't there when it was first recorded (Tudahl p. 343: "With only his engineer Susan Rogers in attendance, he recorded one of his most emotional tracks...") and she wasn't even in Minneapolis as he sent the track to her *after* Eric did the saxophone overdubs (Tudahl pp347-8).

And yes, all of them. From Chris Moon to Sheila to Mayte to Kiran to Judith are freer to embellish now because if Prince were still alive they'd still be keeping their mouths shut. The Estate is a dumpster fire so it's up to us to make sure his legacy is being properly recorded for posterity and history. Repeating misstatements ad naseum is not helpful in this regard because it only serves to confuse fact and fiction -- especially for new fans who don't know what is actually correct. I've cited several reputable sources that discusse the inspiration for Nothing Compares 2 U. No one is saying it couldn't be partially about Susannah, but you are saying it's 100% only about her and no one else; and that's been proven to be untrue.

grammar edit

[Edited 1/11/19 23:00pm]

Yes, Susan Rogers was in the studio with Prince when he recorded the song, and it's also been documented by her that Susannah was at least part of the inspiration for this song. I've already pasted those comments twice on this thread. And if you watched that YT video link that I added you'll see that it was announced on European television while showing Wendy & Lisa's live concert with Susannah, and Sinead O'Connor watching said concert - that the song was written "for and about Susannah Melvoin" . I never stated it is 100% about Suannah Melvoin. What I stated was that the majority of the lyric relates to a man expressing feelings of love toward a woman - not a man talking about his friendship with his housekeeper.

*

Right - Susannah was not there. "It's been 7 hours and 13 days, since you took your love away..." hmmmm, kind of makes a bit of sense, I think.

*

It's up to US to make sure his legacy is being propertly recorded???!!! Are you f-ing kidding me? Who are YOU in Prince's world? Who am I?? Were you there with him in 1984 or any other year? I just think the accusations are fricking hilarious here. It's almost comical. This woman had an intimate relationship with him for at least 7 years, and an ongoing relationship with him until his death, yet random members of this site know more than she does about him and his music. Yeah, right.

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

Thanks for sharing the video. I hadn't seen that.

You're welcome. Yes, I found that awhile ago, but had forgotten about it. Looking at W&L talking about their song Strung Out, it could pretty much be describing Susannah and Prince's relationship. Interesting thought.

jone70 said:

violetcrush said:

Peggyon: ????? If you look back at the original post you will see that poster was actually denigrating ME about being a relatively new member - not the other way around. You commented on my response to that member.

*

Make sure you watch the video I posted above on #92

[Edited 1/11/19 22:41pm]

No one is denigrating anyone. I didn't criticize or disparage you. I just noticed you joined within the last three years so thought perhaps you hadn't had a chance to get up to speed on Prince's vast catalogue in full.

Nah, life-long Prince fan here -beginning in the early 80's. Have read and seen just about everything, and have scoured princevault.com for the recording and show information.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

[Edited 1/11/19 22:33pm]

Yes, they do all embellish and with each interview it gets worse. Heck BM said he choreographed Purple Rain, Kim Berry said she worked with him for 26 or 30 years, when she hasn't and come to find out she didn't even work for him 6 years before his death. I forget if it was Wendy or Lisa who said they taught him about Jazz....and don't even get me started on Andre.

I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on believing everything out of Susannah's mouth, when it's been shown to you several times on this thread, that she changes her stories, they all do.

Oh PennyPurple.... I just can't understand why you don't write your own book about Prince and his life?? I mean, surely you must have known him SO well through the years to be so certain that ALL of those who really knew him and spent many years with him are just embelleshing or flat out lying?

*

And for the record - Lisa NEVER stated she taught him about Jazz. They stated that Lisa was trained in classical piano, and she exposed Prince to CLASSICAL music. If you've listened to the first P&M show in Atlanta then you would have heard PRINCE himself tellling the story of how he first met Lisa, and how her favorite composer was Bill Evans - Prince did not know who that was at the time. He began to play the piano in an ethereal way and said, "I'm trying to play like her". So yeah, I think it's safe to say she taught him some new things about playing.

*

I don't know much of anything about Kim Berry's story, and don't care too much about it, because she was a hair stylist for Prince, and most likely was not privy to extremely private information about him. I don't see him sitting in the salon chair tellling her all of his inner most feelings. Regardless of exactly how many years she worked for him it is clear she was there for quite a long time. Whether it was 10, 20, or 30 yrs doesn't really matter, as any of those time frames would qualify her to know certain things about him - at the very least - what hair products he liked to use. She's pictured in Steve Parke's book c. 1999, and also is seen in that shot with Prince coming out of a London salon c. 2010 - so that's a 10 year span right there.

*

Penny, if only you could see how catty and petty your comments are on these threads. Really just pointless.

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, they do all embellish and with each interview it gets worse. Heck BM said he choreographed Purple Rain, Kim Berry said she worked with him for 26 or 30 years, when she hasn't and come to find out she didn't even work for him 6 years before his death. I forget if it was Wendy or Lisa who said they taught him about Jazz....and don't even get me started on Andre.

I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on believing everything out of Susannah's mouth, when it's been shown to you several times on this thread, that she changes her stories, they all do.

And who would negatively judge someone with the courage to say “I loved him, wanted him, put up with shit from him, and didn’t leave him when I should have. He was exciting, rich, and I wanted to be his woman forever”. To say “he took me downstairs and played me a love song but I’m not sure if it was about me or for me”. If it was, I think you’d know, or did he finish the song then just ask for a grilled cheese? There was no discussion about the song? If there was no romance around a song debut then there’s no romance about “who” the song is about. What gets me is when someone assigns feelings to this man, and talks about his intentions, regrets, hopes, dreams, and unicorns. Makes me wish for a Fan Fiction Forum here where we can all get our freak on. [Edited 1/11/19 23:51pm]

Um, I would classify her as more than just "someone" assigning feelings in this scenario. Again, this is you NOT really getting the things she was saying in her discussion at all. HE DID NOT communincate like a normal person. HE WAS NOT going to say "baby, I love you so much that I wrote this song for you". And for a song like Adore, why would he need to say anything at all?? The message is in the lyrics. She stated that after he played her the song she said told him it was beautiful. However, if she then proceeded to take him back up to the bedroom and f**ck his brains out, she was certainly not going to go into that detail. So, because the pieces of the story that she shared don't fit what YOU think the narrative should be then she must be lying?? Okay, you go with that then

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said:

I see the story quite differently. First and foremost, she mentioned several times in both her first and second discussion with Toure, that they were very much in love, that there were many beautiful moments with him, that making music with him was very exciting, that she, Wendy and Lisa had a very deep connection with Prince, that it was also great to have their Brothers playing with them as well, that she wouldn't trade the experience, that she was very blessed to have not only a working relationship but also a very intimate relationship with Prince too. She stated that he was the lover of her life - not just from a sexual standpoint, but he gave her the experience that made her the person she is today. I'd say those are quite poignant words which describe a special time in her life and a special connection she had with Prince.

*

Regarding the engagement - she specifically stated that while yes, it was strange that there were no plans discussed about a wedding, she was not in that frame of mind. She said she was not that girl who always dreamed of her wedding day and making plans for a wedding. She said she didn't really care about that. She stated her way of planning a future with Prince was to get the house ready and decorate it for the two of them. Toure even stated, "you were building the nest". She didn't say she "became lonely after leaving his home". She actually stated that although she had moved the relationship was the same - she was with him 6 out of 7 days of the week, and the day she didn't see him she figured he was bringing another woman around. Her description of being lonely with him was also relating to the fact that the loneliness came from not being able to share feelings back forth with him. She said he could not have conversations like that. He would not talk to her when he was upset or down. She said it would play out physically (I guess with sex) or in his music. I would imagine it gets lonely when you cannot have a regular conversation with your partner, or feel like you can let your guard down and share your feelings. This is what she was talking about when she desribed the day that Prince drove to her house to try to get her to go back to MN with him. She told him she didn't want to be alone anymore. He told her she wouldn't, because he would be there with her. She said she didn't know how to telll him that was the problem - in other words, even with him there it was lonely, because he was not capable of real communication of sharing his feelings.

*

Again, regarding Susannah packing up and leaving MN - I would say the fact that Prince literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to try to convince her to come back to MN with him was quite an effort to try to get her back. I think when she finally did pack her things and fly back to LA he thought, holy shit - she really left this time. I've got to go get her to come back. If you listen to Come Home, 101, and Wally his mindset and feelings are all there in the lyrics. He's miserable and he wants her back with him. From that point on, it seems the relationship or when they saw each other was more on Susannah's terms. She stated he was flying her all over Europe through the SOTT tour. She said this went on for years, so I would imagine it was the same for LoveSexy. She was on stage with him Sept '88 for the MN show.

*

In looking at many of Prince's songs about love and heartbreak - with the exception of probably just a few - the lyrics give the impression that he was this extremely giving and loving person, and that all he wanted in return was that same love back. He was usually the victim and the one being hurt by his lover. However, if you look at the story Susannah has told, Vanity's story, Mayte's story - it is clear that it was his complexities and dysfunctional behavior in the relationship that pushed the women away from him. And once they finally gave up and walked away, then he wrote songs about the love and heartache. So, to the public listening to these heart wrenching songs we think "oh poor Prince, all he wanted to do was love that woman, and she hurt him and left him"

*

The only song during this time where he admits to a fault of his own - the monogamy issue - is Forever In My Life when he says "juggling hearts in a 3 ring circus someday will drive a body down to the ground..." So, at last he was at least admitting some fault, however, writing about it and actually changing the behavior are two very different things.

[Edited 1/11/19 19:51pm]

[Edited 1/11/19 19:52pm]

You're bending over backwards explaining in details the type of loneliness she was going through. What difference the loneliness? She said he asked her to move out- and she eventually left the apartment she was living in because she said she was lonely. It doesn't matter if it was physically loneliness or spiritually loneliness. She was lonely. As well as, completely heart broken when he asked her to leave. As she herself stated. Isn't that disheartening to you? I listened to her story completely and I don't think the tale that she told here was romantic by any stretch of the imagination. [Edited 1/12/19 5:13am]

No, not bending over backwards about the details at all - just re-stating what she explained in the interview. Yes, she stated he wanted her to get her own place, because he decided he wasn't ready to live with someone, and it broke her heart. She then stated, however, that the relationship did not change in that she was still with him 6 out of 7 days of the week - that the only thing that changed was her location.

*

She was clearly trying to give an understanding of what it was like to be in a relationship with Prince - she was not sugar-coating it. So, since now I'm being accused of putting my own "spin" on the information Susannah has given - here is exactly what she stated in her first interview when asked what it was like to be in a relstionship with him -

*

Susannah: "he could be hard, he could be hard on me. I mean I'm sure anybody who's had a relationship with him - I'm sure Mayte and Manuela could tell you the same thing - that he could be rough around the edges, not easy. BUT, but, there were times, you know, when I knew he looked to our relationship to keep him grounded. At home, he would come home at night and you know, it would be wrapping his legs around my legs, you know, and he always wore tube socks to bed."

*

Toure: "he always wore tube socks to bed?? That doesn't sound very sexy."

*

Susannah: "Yes he did. But it was adorable. See, that's the thing, he was so adorable. On top of all of this, you know, this sexual mystique, he was just a sweet boy. You know, it wasn't all just about fucking. He really needed touch, the smells, he needed visceral experiences."

*

Mayte has stated that during the entire relationship with him - even during the marriage - she could not call him directly - never. She had to wait for him to contact her. Really?? As a partner and Wife you can't initiate contact? Nona Gaye has stated her entire time with him was nothing but a "mind screw". I'm sure if Manuela ever sits down to do a lengthy interview or writes her story the narrative would be quite similar.

*

Susannah was just trying to paint a real picture of what daily life was like in a relationship with him, and how his issues and complexities played out - that it was not always romantic, and that he could be very difficult. I'm sure the women who saw him once every so often for sex would not have seen the same complexities in him. That comes when you live daily life with someone for a long stretch of time.

luvgirl said: