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She sure wasn't! She got a co-lead role in the movie 'Last Dragon' right after she left Prince. She was destined to be a star.
This is my ALL TIME favorite performance of hers. Although she was lip synching. The way she commanded the stage BY HERSELF. Plus took COMPLETE control of the audience. She had them in the palm of her hands.
Btw Jesse johnson who produced and wrote this for her really brought her vocals out on this. I'm glad I was able to tell him that.
"That mountain top situation is not really what it's all cracked up 2 B when  was doing the Purple Rain tour had a lot of people who knew 'll never c again @ the concerts.just screamin n places they thought they was suppose 2 scream." |
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oh wow you talked to him about this song? What did he say about it and your comment? | |
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WOW!! Inspirational and touching. Denise had a heart that was rare. . I appreciate that she can be celebrated for the person she was singularly and not just due to significant others she allowed in her life. She seems to have been a person of great character. You posted before that she was an event allby herself and I believe it. . To be able to be that person to not give up on others and remember we none of us are perfect is so special. I understand why she was able touch so many lives and why she is unforgettable.
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While Denise was a singer, somehow I doubt if she could have handled siniging "God Is Trying To Tell You Something" and "The Dirty Dozens". They were too big for her. that's why I'm thinking she was offerred the Squeak role being she and Rae Dong had similar looks. Originally, they were looking for someone who could handle the singing for the part of Shug Avery. Tina, Chaka and Patti were all offerred and all turned it down. Phyllis Hyman was eventually hired and fired shortly after they started filming for being too difficult to work with. They decided to go with an seasoned actress who could lip-sync after that and hired Tata Vega for the vocal work. [Edited 3/7/18 9:23am] "It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
"The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." - Socrates | |
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Also Rae Dong Chong was the IT girl during that time. NO black actress stood a chance in auditions against her.
Btw U have good taste in muziq..... "That mountain top situation is not really what it's all cracked up 2 B when was doing the Purple Rain tour had a lot of people who knew 'll never c again @ the concerts.just screamin n places they thought they was suppose 2 scream." |
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No matter about the actress Denise. . What matters is that Denise as a person effected many lives and as my previous posts stated in response to Toban's posting of the writing from Denise- she did not just talk about she showed up and did things for others- she had a heart . . She did not give up on herself or others and for that I hope that will be one of things she will forever be remembered. .
[Edited 3/7/18 10:04am] | |
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Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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She had a very commanding presence. A true BOSS on stage both in Vanity 6 and when she went on her own. Busting through like it was nobody's business and then holding it down. She knew she wasn't the best singer but so what? She threw all she had up there- her beauty, charm, etc. and captivated the audience. .
I don’t think there’s any need to apologize, you might not be entirely wrong, no day was ever the same and the individual memories of DeBorah that Denise invoked did not truly cause me pain. I just didn’t care to linger in them. It’s similar to the reason why I sometimes don’t respond or don’t quickly respond on here sometime. An ocean like multitude of prosaic little moments locked away in memory can be so overwhelming and so easily released when try to view one piece. But since you bring it up, what conclusions did you happen draw and or what do you think most people would assume or conclude about our multifaceted relationship?
. . Regarding her musing influence… As a romantic poet I don’t ordinarily write about the physical beauty of a woman, but rather preferred to prose those qualities and manner of a woman in my awkward attempt to rationalize, describe and define the feminine mystique. Yeah, good luck with that, right? Hoping at the very least to poetically convey the answer to the mystery of She that catches and holds my attention, and to explain the Reasons of the Why that has inspired me to go reaching for my pad and pen. . Denise was like a stranger that I knew. Prior to 2001 I didn’t see much of Denise accept for some holidays, when she got married and her frequent visit to see Rick James (no they were not together prior to Prince). However, because they were so much alike, because of listening to DeBorah’s stories and hearing half of their conversations for those many years before Denise and I developed our own relationship, and probably also because Denise assumed that I knew everything that DeBorah knew, Denise and I quickly became close as old friends; particularly in 2006, when she wasn’t or couldn’t drive and I was working 10 miles away from her apartment for that year. We spent a lot of time hanging out before, during and after shopping for materials for her books, moving her storages, hanging art, working on her cars and repairing whatever might have broken since my last visit. Rarely did we just watch a movie or TV, we talk more than anything else… well, she mostly talked while preparing dinner as I worked something. She was quick to notice when I didn’t wish to speak about something, acknowledging it by shout over the stove’s exhaust fan “Oh YOU DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, eh? OK, I GET IT.” Which actually meant once she discovered that pulling a personal bit of information out of me was going to be difficult she was just going to changing her tactics. “Tell me, tell me” she’d say commenting on how I “…seemed to enjoy being lost… in thought,” which provoked a smirk. “Sometimes you remind me of him…” I didn’t need to ask who, I turned and looked at her looking at me, thinking that she was just fishing, and thinking it because DeBorah use to say the same thing to me about Tony, and then later on Prince. . Both she and DeBorah seemed to be always search for some way to get a deep belly laugh out of me. They flirted and seduced (information) the same, with a look, a smile and a knowing phrase where a kiss might have left me guessing true intent. They danced around the house wearing sweats doing the most mundane things, just enjoying being silly and having only me as an audience. I did my thing while observing every glance within every moment and segue of their performance as they pretended to steal my attention when they knew they already had it. . . Now, I wrote this in late 08 or early 09 an attempt to explain how I write. I wasn’t seeing or dating anyone and I had no one in particular in mind. . I WROTE HER, (The Method) . THE METHOD . I process a feeling. Letting it overwhelm the rational. I can sense a write is coming; Engaging pad, pen and the mental mechanism. . She… The Object of my mood swing? But why HER within this crowd? Knowing that which… instigates, captivates, and motivates the method is more than providence! So to question inspiration is not allowed! ____________
I WROTE HER . Not knowing where she’d been. Not knowing what she’d done. With care I penciled in, to make the ragged fragments fit with what I did; though knowing only Imagined. . As when… I knew she’d call me. When… She held her breath; She held still; I held it… as I penned my number to the pad in the palm of her hand. . We’d talk for hours as if she were a long lost friend. . I anxiously listened to her stories, her childhood dreams, the places she’d been, …the next steps in her future life plan. . And I knew she’d kiss me. I knew how… I knew when. . More then that, “Goodnight Kiss on a Doorstep” Or “An Endearing Peck, Of a Friend.” . It was When… She decided, she wanted to know more of me Strip off defense that I had kept continually raising. Noticing how would shift conversations away from me. . When finally… She said… “Tell me!” . “Tell me, Tell me” became part of her playful phrasings. “Tell me, Tell me” I begin to smile as she keeps saying. . Then Slowly, Carefully, Thoughtfully I began releasing, liberating history stored deep… in memory. Parts of me buried, suppressed, unseen since experiencing. Along with the Boyhood Dreams put away, traded, for life’s “practical” realities. Betraying all the beauty of foolish abstract imaginings. . Lost in a permanent game of “Hide and Seek!” She found this childlike quality that was once me… By Just Listening. . In this… My Theater… she listened. Paid attention to my personal biography. Paid her ticket to a private viewing and she held it tightly. She held my hand hearing all the drama She held her side through all the comedy. . When Suddenly… She kissed me. Full lipped, tongue slipped, slight flick… pulling me closely. Then whispering, “Tell me, Tell me” “Tell me a bedtime story” _________ . EPILOGUE . I drew her near me, as the write infers. Looking lovingly into enamored eyes. An illustration… captioned lines poetically describes. . This drawing captures the underlying essence of the verse. . I did not know her… It’s just how… I wrote her. ....... As a poet this what I meant in how she'd somehow find her way into my writes. . I will answer the rest another time. I haven't been home more than total of 10 days since Christmas and have not had much time to write. If they lock the page just message me. | |
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Thanks Toban, I always enjoy your writings. Also thank you for clearing up the Rick James thing. | |
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Great to see you Toban! These poems drew me and they linger. I read the post yesterday but could not respond. I had to sit with the poems and take them in. The line I did not know her . . . it's just how . . .I wrote her. WOW and you had no one in mind; those words say so much. . You shared the poems in your post had no one in mind . Did Denise know you mused her? She was a poet too- did she ever share who/what she mused ? . I appreciate you making it clear she did not date Rick James prior to Prince. That is a rumor that has legs that has walked for decades. There is so much we have as truth that I feel are just rumors walking through the years and I hope the truths come out - as the Rick James dating Denise. I do not want to assume anything but was she seeing Rick James as just friends? was she trying to help him with his own addictions? . Why could she not drive in 2006? It sounds like 2006 was a special year for her to adjust her lifestyle to have to find ways to get where she needed to go pre-Uber days. Your decription of Denise and Deborah make them sound like twins. Did they stay close all their lives? . Moments in our memory seep out at the most unexpected times too. Much appreciation to you for sharing some of yours. | |
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Vashtix said:
WOW!! Inspirational and touching. Denise had a heart that was rare. . I appreciate that she can be celebrated for the person she was singularly and not just due to significant others she allowed in her life. She seems to have been a person of great character. You posted before that she was an event allby herself and I believe it. . To be able to be that person to not give up on others and remember we none of us are perfect is so special. I understand why she was able touch so many lives and why she is unforgettable.
She had a little weight on her here. She is still absolutely beautiful. Look at how perfect her skin still was. I love Denise’s hairline. | |
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Clearly the Rick James rumor does have legs. Not knowing much about her celebrity, I too assumed it was true because of her stopping to see us (or not) when she came to town to visit him. But first, you have to understand that I or rather we can’t know what (Prince and Vanity) fans don’t know. DeBorah and I (and apparently Denise) have no clue of what is or is not of truly significance regarding what we know. Furthermore, it’s one thing for me to have witnessed or experienced something. It’s a complete different thing for me to quote what DeBorah or Denise has told me, or for me to share what Denise has written. I don’t have time in most cases and have no way of researching what has never been previously written and or falsely reported. Therefore, I have been reluctant correct what I believe to be false and reluctant to disclose some of the more provocative comments DeBorah has said, or the things that Denise has told me or what she has written regarding Vanity and her time with Prince. Denise has written in her unpublished books and in early outlines noting many things she was going to write about, most of which never made it into any of her books. The notes seem to be deliberately cryptic, such as “Handcuff Jesse in shower” and statements like (not quoting word for word) Someone beaten black and blue for calling him a pimp, Jill getting kicked in the head with the heel of his boot, Louis pulling a gun on him. This is 35 years ago, what if Denise is not clear on something that is hearsay, I can’t confirm it, so you might understand my reluctance say anything.
Who would believe that they continued to see each other romantically up until 1989 or 1990. It’s just something I knew, I knew/assumed everyone on the Org knew and never thought further about it. I currently have no way of proving that Denise made jewelry for him as late as 2005, it was something I was told or heard. My only point in mentioning it would mean nothing more than to show an ongoing relationship with an old friend that had matured beyond The Game they had been playing all those years, and reveal that it had some basis in her artwork, and being the artist he knew her to be. .
Regarding Rick I don’t remember what we were doing, working on or what we were discussing that sparked Denise’s open request “… you want to know? Go ahead ask me anything.” I didn’t know enough about Vanity at that time to ask her anything of true significance, so my first question was about Rick James. Her response was “Oh God No! I was never with Rick” as she rolled her eyes and looked up to heaven. As if to say, “this question again.” . I think it was in 1994 or 1995 when Denise would either stop by and or stay over when she was going to visit Rick or after visiting him. Denise lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and we lived in Rosemont right off the 50 freeway in Sacramento. At the time Rick was being “housed” about 20 minutes away in Folsom prison and Denise would go visit and preach to him. This was a time when Denise was an over the top zealot. I remember thinking of Rick as being literally being a captive audience, but DeBorah remembers and tells it as if Rick was really into her spiritual visit. . Up until she responded that day in my mind her visits back then confirmed the rumor I had heard somewhere years earlier. She writes about how she used all that attention she was receiving from famous men like Rick James in response to what Prince had done and was doing to her. Adam Ant and the picture she had painted of him that hung in her rooms while on tour was a different story that started before Prince. She writes that Prince hated Rod Steward; implying that’s why she went out with him. She took her grandmother and several others with her because she heard Rod was cheap. Rod taking his pants off at the table during dinner, apparently for Shock Value, did not phase Denise or her grandmother. . . The point of the poem was to describe my writing process and how it can be so easily inspired by just about anything, a rock, a river or a moment. In this case a stranger whose manner stood out when she entered a crowded room; like the AMAs.
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Hi Toban, I was out of town most of the weekend and finally sat down to ponder your post a bit more, particularly the part about the assumption I made and apologized for. Since I did not know Denise in real life or you and I'm only going by what you've shared about your time with her. Therefore, my thought/ conclusion as to why you avoided Denise was simple- so that you would not fall for her. Now, your suggestions are thought provoking and I will indulge you on those and maybe throw one or two back to you for clarification. .
This would not be a thought to enter my mind because "Vanity", the persona, Denise put away with her having given her life to Christ and becoming an Evangelist. Although people still call her and knew her as Vanity in later days, she was not that person anymore. Right? Also, you were not just any man, you were in the family and was married to her sister. So I wouldn't have put those two things together. .
Both of these are true. I'll be honest, based on the poems you've shared, the thought of these together has crossed my mind. Denise may not have been the intentional muse from the start, but may have fit in with your write. .
This thought did not cross my mind AT ALL but now that you mention it, it may have been an assumption/ conclusion I could see some coming up with- again based on what you've shared. However, if you could, please clarify which one of you this would've referred to because it could go either way. .
Even by her own admission, Denise had times of loneliness. However, I wouldn't have entertained this thought either, because like the one above this, I wouldn't have imagined such an expectation knowing that you were the husband of her sister and father of her nephews. Again, not having known her in real life, I only assumed appropriate boundaries and everyone going by those or trying hard to- hence MY assumption of the reason you avoided her.
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The story of Rod Stewart cracks me up. | |
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I'm so confused. [Edited 3/26/18 17:48pm] | |
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Thanks, learn something new Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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Vanity was good in her supporting role. She was a true actress. We cannot undo life and choices made but I cannot help but wonder what her future would have been if she had continued acting and not gone the route of the drugs. . We see glimpses and I wish there were more things of her on screen. . Does anyone know did she ever do stage or just film and TV?
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May God rest her soul. Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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This is a fabulous photo! She aged like fine wine. Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above | |
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It's understandable if you cannot share something that you did not hear first hand from Denise through conversation or her writings if you have no context or ability to research. I think some people were definitely shocked that Prince and Denise were seeing each other so late into the 80s as most assumed they were completely done in '83. In fact, many people were surprised that they were still in touch up until a few years before their deaths. Thank you for answering my question about the jewelry and cuff links. Do you remember if the person who told you said why she stopped in 2005? I'm glad you cleared up that Denise and Rick James were not a thing before Prince. I thought you said something about that before and that's why it rang in my head when it was brought up in another thread. It's great that Denise went and ministered to him in prison and I LOVE that she used the attention she received from him to get back at Prince. YUCK to Rod Stewart taking his pants off in front of her and her grandmother. What was he thinking? I can't imagine that was "sexy" if it didn't phase them. | |
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Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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Yes... she did stage. I have some photos and or an old program of one play. | |
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“I’ve never seen Snow Fall.” I quietly interjected in the middle of her story as she took a breath. The comment briefly stunned her into silence as she attempted to fully process it. Was it that her being Canadian that she couldn’t comprehend a childhood without snow? The resulting series of mixed expressions that began washing across her face was unforgettable… with sorrow being the most remarkable… the most memorable. She actually felt sad for me as if I, thus far, had lived a denied life, that I had not seen or experience something that was so magical in hers. She was literally at a loss for words and comically began quickly pacing and stumbling around like I Love Lucy doing Fred Sanford trying to express the word “WOW” but acting like she just couldn’t quite get the word out loud enough or big enough to properly impress upon me her feelings and thoughts on the matter. With one eyebrow raised I just watched her antics trying my best not to laugh, and not wanting to tell her how much it reminded me of her sister. Listening to her stories of growing up in Canada, her descriptive imagery would just take me there. I could picture her and DeBorah/Debbie making Snow Angels and then lying there watching the snow fall. To this day I still have never seen Snow Fall. . I’m certain that I don’t see what most people see when they think of Denise or Vanity. I was drawn by her excitement and wonderment of everything, especially the simple things and then also the silly things. She wanted to understand how things worked, her creative artistic mind was always analyzing possibilities for innovation. Which is when I’d get a text and before I could finish reading it I’d get a phone call… “Hi Bro!” The list of ideas for inventions, movies, TV series, business, fashion, baking, etc.… that she ran by me was constant. I believe she began calling me was mostly due to a tandem swing I had built for my sons and my 2002 CA State Fair project (an automatic tracking camera base) which took second place. Gravity was a favorite topic of ours, but initially for two very different reasons. When she was in pain or while we waited for her lab work to return or while she was hooked up and going through some medical procedure Denise would often ask me to tell her a story, recite poetry or she’d ask me to just talk. Can you imagine us discussing the Flyby Anomaly, the reason for the shape of the moon and 2 high tides per day, and hurricane storm surge all being evidence of how gravity works and how it is easily altered. That it appeared to be a secret deliberately kept secret from mankind was something we both considered.
I hoped but knew this wouldn't be the same. Even before I arrived I knew something was different, but mainly it was when I looked at the hospital visitor’s pass that I received 9 hours before she died. “2/15, 3:02am, CCU 06, Visitor #17,” 17? The last few times she was in the hospital only I had been there. . . To change the subject... Another one of my most favorite memories involves a holiday punch. I believe it was Christmas 2000. Having recently heard that Denise was married to Jesus, I understood but I honestly didn’t think that she possibly thought of them as a couple. That is until Denise handed me my gift with the attached card said “from Jesus and Denise.” I looked at her with a curious expression and ask “who’s Hay-soos?” the Spanish pronunciation for Jesus. She quickly took the gift back and started to look over what she had written on the card before she fully realized what I had said. She didn’t even look up to see me grinning, she just balled up her fist and punched me straight in my chest as I had started to giggle and laugh. The gift from Denise that year was a personalized Bible. It was the first time I saw in print how she had always pronounced my name. DeBorah immediately told her the correct spelling again, as she had many times before. Often getting off the phone after speaking with Denise asking me “why does she pronounce your name like that? Denise offered to correct the engraving but I said it wasn’t necessary; I thought it was perfect as it was. Eight years later when I began to write again Toban became my pen-name.
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Hi Toban, Thank you for sharing your memories of Denise with us. Because I live in a place where it snows ALL.THE.TIME it seems, I TOTALLY get her reaction to you! In fact, as I type this sentence, snow is falling. . Most people think celebrities live in a different world than the rest of us, ordinary people- which is true to some degree. However, the person of Denise or even "Vanity" was very human, normal, and experienced regular life trials. Everything we saw of Denise as Evangelist or "Vanity" the singer/ actress was her public life. You knew her as family so your view is very different than ours. Thank you again for giving us a glimpse of who she was. . I have a friend, an astrophysicist, who makes the case that gravity does not exist. Talk about losing my ever loving mind! | |
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Vanity 6 show in detroit 04/08/1983 via the awesome mandragone YT page
[Edited 4/11/18 22:32pm] Keep Calm & Listen To Prince | |
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This appears to have been written in 1994. Denise mentions that the letter was the first contact in a few years (since that time Kim called all night).
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