Superfan1984 said:

sonshine said:

PennyPurple said: I believe the wedding gifted song was "Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife"

Yes, that was to her. I wonder why that wasn't the name of her book? I think it would have been better- a song that she knew was for her as opposed to one that a lot of women thought was about them. I remember hearing on a Current Affair, back in the day that the most beautiful was about Vanessa Marcil.

Might be a title that isn't realistic in the whole picture. As she was no longer lover sister mother wife.

Most Beautiful Life covers before Prince during and after.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Superfan1984 said:

Yes, that was to her. I wonder why that wasn't the name of her book? I think it would have been better- a song that she knew was for her as opposed to one that a lot of women thought was about them. I remember hearing on a Current Affair, back in the day that the most beautiful was about Vanessa Marcil.

Might be a title that isn't realistic in the whole picture. As she was no longer lover sister mother wife.

Most Beautiful Life covers before Prince during and after.

I don't think it would have been off the mark at all- after all this book is not about what she is to him NOW but what she was to him THEN- really, all she wrote about was their time together THEN, 20 years ago- so, I think that title would have been better. Oh well, just my opinion.

Toban said:

Toban said:

Empathy...

Regarding “The turning point.”

She wanted to, she needed too, and she knew the two of them couldn’t or shouldn’t continue on as they had been. Evidently they each enabled other’s bad behavior.

It was and wasn’t Kim actually, but rather that routine situation she had so often found herself in.

If you recall at all how it all began?

.

I don’t remember how she wrote it exactly… and still it wasn’t what she wrote but more what it implied in why she wrote it. As if she had finally recognized the chain events were cyclical, that they had gone full circle and it was time to get off the Merry-Go-Round.

.

I know it’s frustrating, not having her exact words on the matter, as to why she select this moment to be their last and if it was? When did she decide to do this? Did she tell him, when did he learn of it or when did he realize it and when did it sink in?

.

She did write a short story about them, that I haven’t gotten around to reading. called The Black Box. I assumed it was some tragic cautionary tale about love and lost. I flipped through it but at that time I just wasn’t ready to read it. Mainly because below the title on the front page she had written something like “When a plane goes down all that’s left is “The Black Box.” That was just a bit too much for me at the time.

However, going by other things she had said and written I would guess that, what made this event with Kim Basinger “the turning point” or different then all the rest is… is that it wasn’t.

It was a pattern.

As a pattern of practice, it doesn’t really matter if this occurred in 1989 when he was still seeing Kim or if it were after it had ended, Kim was still calling… which meant something. It should have meant something.

.

Denise had ready began to hate Vanity. She hated her drug use and she hated the direction of her career as Vanity (i.e. type casted as a sexy vixen, which always requiring nude scenes). For too long she had looked outside of herself to fill an emptiness and tried to fix it with money, a man or drugs.

.

From Susan in 83 to Kim Basinger in 89, it’s not that nothing much had changed, it’s that he and her somehow fell into a routine.

Even DeBorah dates one of their events with her returning from modeling in Italy and being picked up at the airport by her and Prince.

.

Denise wrote that she and Susan consoled each other regarding him. Prince was being Prince then and he was still being himself on this particular tryst.

However, Denise writing about it as being significant signifies a difference, a change… in herself.

.

Way back then, in her consoling Susan it reveals Denise as initially being compassionate and that she had empathy, feeling sorry for her and the other woman that followed. Which occurred during that period of his D-construction of Denise and his creation of the star called Vanity. Only now becoming fully aware of the cost. All the scars on her heart from all the many fractures and breaks along her journey had healed callous.

.

The pattern she had fallen into had gone full circle. Missing who she had been when it all began, she search to finding herself, that person she’d lost…

.

The phone ringing was annoying, but she was used to it and probably thought it was just some woman, some girl, no doubt some desperate fixated fan who didn’t know him at all. The type she had thought nothing about these past many years as she passed or stepped over them as they stood or slept in the hallway outside his hotel room.

.

The turning point, the difference this time in hear her name…

It was the revelation in the recognition of something familiar that she missed about herself and thought forever lost beneath callous.

… as she had with Susan when it all began, she recognized, remember and felt Kim’s pain.

Hi Toban,

Hope you enjoyed our honeymoon and visiting the ruins.

.

The information you recently shared about Vanity/Denise made me ponder about her as a woman.

Listening to her sermons she says often that she hated having to take her clothes off all the time. Per what you shared the seeds of tiring of the Vanity persona was happening within her way before she even left Hollywood for Jesus.

.

I was also intrigued by the “Black Box”. The Black Box is used to find out what went on prior to the plane

Crashing; maybe her fictional essay is about how it went down between her and Prince prior to crashing.

.

You mentioned empathy she had for Kim Bassinger. It has been said Kim Bassinger had a bad time after Prince, was that what caused the empathy from Vanity or did Kim find out Prince was still seeing Vanity ?

.

Oh and the white snake info was priceless! I was laughing out loud with that- My kind of person!

.

Did does she mention when she finally cut things off from Prince?

.

Thanks for the information you shared so far.

I have not read through this entire thread- I respectfully ask: Who is Toban to Denise? thank you-

Superfan1984 said:

I have not read through this entire thread- I respectfully ask: Who is Toban to Denise? thank you-

He was her brother in law, more like a brother to her. She left him some items after she died, when he has time, he reads thru some of the things she left him. Nice guy & I believe he is a poet. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

Vashtix said:

Hi Toban,

Hope you enjoyed our honeymoon and visiting the ruins.

.

The information you recently shared about Vanity/Denise made me ponder about her as a woman.

Listening to her sermons she says often that she hated having to take her clothes off all the time. Per what you shared the seeds of tiring of the Vanity persona was happening within her way before she even left Hollywood for Jesus.

.

I was also intrigued by the “Black Box”. The Black Box is used to find out what went on prior to the plane

Crashing; maybe her fictional essay is about how it went down between her and Prince prior to crashing.

.

You mentioned empathy she had for Kim Bassinger. It has been said Kim Bassinger had a bad time after Prince, was that what caused the empathy from Vanity or did Kim find out Prince was still seeing Vanity ?

.

Oh and the white snake info was priceless! I was laughing out loud with that- My kind of person!

.

Did does she mention when she finally cut things off from Prince?

.

Thanks for the information you shared so far.

I kinda think that Prince was just as excited as Denise was to see her at that award show. Especially since he gave her a rose and a white snake.

Toban said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Toban said:

She writes about this. It how she initially opened her autobiography beginning with that particular night.

She wrote in great detail about how excited she was to see them all and how she felt about seeing him. Wondering if that night could some how help heal the harms done.

That when she was ask to be a presenter she said she would only do it if she could present it to Prince, and with that knowledge she spent the entire day preparing and dressing for that night, that moment.

thanks 4 posting that.
I've always wondered about it.
I read some stuff from different Revolution members with pleasant things about seeing her that night, and their nerves even more.

It all felt really genuine. And then seeing Vanity celebrating with Brenda & Apollonia

Toban said:

laurarichardson said:

Toban said:

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

Thanks for adding this information. So good to know that he helped her with her bills and stated in touch.

Laura where did you read Prince helped with bills, I missed that- thks

Vashtix said:

laurarichardson said:

Toban said: Thanks for adding this information. So good to know that he helped her with her bills and stated in touch.

Laura where did you read Prince helped with bills, I missed that- thks

In another post that was deleted it was mentioned that medical bills vanished. It is an assumption.

[Edited 7/17/17 9:56am]

PennyPurple said:

Superfan1984 said:

I have not read through this entire thread- I respectfully ask: Who is Toban to Denise? thank you-

He was her brother in law, more like a brother to her. She left him some items after she died, when he has time, he reads thru some of the things she left him. Nice guy & I believe he is a poet. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

thank you, Penny

laurarichardson said:

Vashtix said:

Laura where did you read Prince helped with bills, I missed that- thks

In another post that was deleted it was mentioned that medical bills vanished. It is an assumption.

[Edited 7/17/17 9:56am]

Denise mentioned in her preachings about IRS debts in the 10s of thousands or more being erased, more than once. She also mentioned medical bills in 100s of thousands- also having been taken care of. She credited Jesus. Toban did mention wondering if Prince had paid some because there was not a money/ paper trail to account for pay offs. He'll correct me if I'm remembering that wrong.

purplegirl00 said:

Toban said:

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

The bolded is my fascination too. I call them twin flames. I think they a big part of themselves in one another. I am not a poet or an artist so you would know more about the muse but they brought out something that the masses were drawn too.

Vashtix said:

Toban said:

As it seems relevant to the discussion… let me add this.

.

Today I just discovered that Vanity and Prince continued to be romantically involved/intimate still seeing each other up into 1989.

I finally found a moment to read one of Denise earliest (typewritten) editions.

.

Describing the story / Not quoting.

Vanity had gotten tired of his phone ringing all night and into the morning. And though he may have trusted her not to stress him about women, it probably crossed his mind that “Vanity” would answer his phone. Prince just said don’t worry about it, it’s only Kim Basinger.

.

.

Quoting what she wrote would lead to another subject and that to other. I’m just try to stay on topic and trying to avoid having to put out a book.

As a Poet, for me the subject and question being, what mused those two and what drew those two?

The bolded is my fascination too. I call them twin flames. I think they a big part of themselves in one another. I am not a poet or an artist so you would know more about the muse but they brought out something that the masses were drawn too.

I had never had a reason to ask questions about Vanity and Prince other than to ask a question for clarity during a conversation when I was being told a story about a particular event.

DeBorah has various methods of remembering when Prince and Vanity were together. One I mentioned earlier, which was associated with DeBorah returning from Italy and being picked up by them.

The method that I found the most intriguing was all of her Backstage Passes to Prince Concerts.

She’s had these things hanging around for the past 25 years, pinned to the walls, mixed up with belts, on coat and tie racks, and for all these years I never paid much attention to them.

Deborah never went to a Prince Concert without Vanity. Each time she went to his concert Vanity and Prince were together.

I haven’t seen them in a few years, but I am certain that LoveSexy was on one of those Passes.

.

What drew them? It's both simple and complicated.

.

Thank you for the Well Wishes, Cancun, the Mayan Temples and Pyramids were amazing.

.

I was supposed to write my wedding vows, but didn't.

So I made certain that she said her vows first. I said ditto to every she said

and I then sang "Forever in My Life." Which is what I really wanted to do anyway.

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

The bolded is my fascination too. I call them twin flames. I think they a big part of themselves in one another. I am not a poet or an artist so you would know more about the muse but they brought out something that the masses were drawn too.

I had never had a reason to ask questions about Vanity and Prince other than to ask a question for clarity during a conversation when I was being told a story about a particular event.

DeBorah has various methods of remembering when Prince and Vanity were together. One I mentioned earlier, which was associated with DeBorah returning from Italy and being picked up by them.

The method that I found the most intriguing was all of her Backstage Passes to Prince Concerts.

She’s had these things hanging around for the past 25 years, pinned to the walls, mixed up with belts, on coat and tie racks, and for all these years I never paid much attention to them.

Deborah never went to a Prince Concert without Vanity. Each time she went to his concert Vanity and Prince were together.

I haven’t seen them in a few years, but I am certain that LoveSexy was on one of those Passes.

.

What drew them? It's both simple and complicated.

.

Thank you for the Well Wishes, Cancun, the Mayan Temples and Pyramids were amazing.

.

I was supposed to write my wedding vows, but didn't.

So I made certain that she said her vows first. I said ditto to every she said

and I then sang "Forever in My Life." Which is what I really wanted to do anyway.

WOW . . . such a romantic song, great choice! I can imagine many tears of joy and happiness with lyrics like those.

.

Your information about the LoveSexy era blew me away; I always thought he was with someone else during this time but this means Vanity was around when Under The Cherry Moon was filmed too per your timeline. It always confirms to me what I suspected that they told the public one thing (they do not see other, do not talk) and did another. I like them being private. Seems Prince showed the public exactly what he wanted, how he wanted, where and when. I guess what he sold we believed and her too.

.

I'll bite at this one . . . what do ou perceive drew them? You said it is complicated and simple. It boggles my mind due to his harem lifestyle.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince said he had a way of cutting people off or out of his emotions. Something he didn't like. It is highly plausible that he did this with Vanity or any other persons when they were no longer around and then applied someone else to the inspiration of a song as they fit in. I read some stuff about certain songs originally being about someone in the early 90s and later about someone else. I think I remember this from the Love Symbol period.

Susan Rogers talked about hearing this when she came into the camp in 1983 right before the Dance Benefit show.

Wonderful Ass is a track recorded in early 1983 at Prince's Kiowa Trail Home Studio, Chanhassen, MN, USA. The track is a pop-funk track with synth lead lines, a drum machine beat and rhythm guitar. The track's lyrics were supposedly inspired by Vanity. It is unknown if Wonderful Ass was intended for any project at the time of recording.

Hi Oldfriends. I think with Vanity, she was like his on/off switch. I read that over the years, he tried to get back with her, but she said no and there was a time he cut her off when she tried to reconnect with him. I heard he didn't take her passing very well, though. [Edited 8/5/17 11:18am]

I agree

luvgirl said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

She also confirms that strange relationship is about V

This new book coming out in the fall will also confirm that "Strange Relationship" was inspired by Vanity. http://prince.org/msg/7/440766
For so long it was only "Wonderful A$$" that anyone of significance in the Prince camp confirmed, but Prince changed the narrative starting with the confirmation of "The Beautiful Ones" being inspired by her. I'm not surprised by any of this. I knew that Vanity was the inspiration for many more songs than "Wonderful A$$"...

So far we have solid confirmation on:

The Beautiful Ones
Strange Relationship
Wonderful A$$

Those are the solid confirmations, not the rumored ones we all know of. I wonder what will be confirmed next?
[Edited 6/26/17 14:24pm]

2elijah said:

luvgirl said:

This new book coming out in the fall will also confirm that "Strange Relationship" was inspired by Vanity. http://prince.org/msg/7/440766 For so long it was only "Wonderful A$$" that anyone of significance in the Prince camp confirmed, but Prince changed the narrative starting with the confirmation of "The Beautiful Ones" being inspired by her. I'm not surprised by any of this. I knew that Vanity was the inspiration for many more songs than "Wonderful A$$"... So far we have solid confirmation on: The Beautiful Ones Strange Relationship Wonderful A$$ Those are the solid confirmations, not the rumored ones we all know of. I wonder what will be confirmed next? [Edited 6/26/17 14:24pm]

I'm glad somebody finally clarified it. For a while on this site, some fans claiming/swearing all 3 of those songs were written for Susannah.

dual purposes to songs stretched out over time

like

When Doves Cry was about Susan Moonsie, as well as his natural parents and his PR parents

I strongly believe all 3 of those songs had double/triple meanings and inspirations.
Lisa never said the song was only about Susannah. She talked about the current(1985/86) inspiration for the song at that time. The first person she mentioned was Prince. Then she said Wendy & Susannah. In that Prince & Lisa were singing lead/colead and their girlfriends being the inspiration.
There is nothing contradictory about this and the songs origins being about Vanity.

Vashtix said:

Toban said:

I had never had a reason to ask questions about Vanity and Prince other than to ask a question for clarity during a conversation when I was being told a story about a particular event.

DeBorah has various methods of remembering when Prince and Vanity were together. One I mentioned earlier, which was associated with DeBorah returning from Italy and being picked up by them.

The method that I found the most intriguing was all of her Backstage Passes to Prince Concerts.

She’s had these things hanging around for the past 25 years, pinned to the walls, mixed up with belts, on coat and tie racks, and for all these years I never paid much attention to them.

Deborah never went to a Prince Concert without Vanity. Each time she went to his concert Vanity and Prince were together.

I haven’t seen them in a few years, but I am certain that LoveSexy was on one of those Passes.

.

What drew them? It's both simple and complicated.

.

Thank you for the Well Wishes, Cancun, the Mayan Temples and Pyramids were amazing.

.

I was supposed to write my wedding vows, but didn't.

So I made certain that she said her vows first. I said ditto to every she said

and I then sang "Forever in My Life." Which is what I really wanted to do anyway.

WOW . . . such a romantic song, great choice! I can imagine many tears of joy and happiness with lyrics like those.

.

Your information about the LoveSexy era blew me away; I always thought he was with someone else during this time but this means Vanity was around when Under The Cherry Moon was filmed too per your timeline. It always confirms to me what I suspected that they told the public one thing (they do not see other, do not talk) and did another. I like them being private. Seems Prince showed the public exactly what he wanted, how he wanted, where and when. I guess what he sold we believed and her too.

.

I'll bite at this one . . . what do ou perceive drew them? You said it is complicated and simple. It boggles my mind due to his harem lifestyle.

Gestalt Prayer...

The handwritten copy of the poem that she had is missing the last line, ending at "beautiful."

I could be wrong but I don't think she wrote it.

If the "Philosophy" fits...

.

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too kept them close.

.

She fell in love with him before she move in.

He molded her into his creation.

He creates the woman of every man's fantasy just to stoke his ego? And making her in his image?

"Life imitates art" or at least attempts to.

However, she flip the script on the Prince doctrine, "what's good for the goose..." must be much better for the gander. So to speak.

.

It would be more complicated to explain what they both had said, that they had fallen in love or were deeply in love. I'd like to believe that they knew and had experienced unconditional love.

.

Harem Lifestyle?

.

I recently discovered two other version of her autobiography, and in one she pulls no punches.

She was not concerned with his "harem."

[Edited 8/8/17 20:28pm]

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

WOW . . . such a romantic song, great choice! I can imagine many tears of joy and happiness with lyrics like those.

.

Your information about the LoveSexy era blew me away; I always thought he was with someone else during this time but this means Vanity was around when Under The Cherry Moon was filmed too per your timeline. It always confirms to me what I suspected that they told the public one thing (they do not see other, do not talk) and did another. I like them being private. Seems Prince showed the public exactly what he wanted, how he wanted, where and when. I guess what he sold we believed and her too.

.

I'll bite at this one . . . what do ou perceive drew them? You said it is complicated and simple. It boggles my mind due to his harem lifestyle.

Gestalt Prayer...

The handwritten copy of the poem that she had is missing the last line, ending at "beautiful."

I could be wrong but I don't think she wrote it.

If the "Philosophy" fits...

.

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too keep them close.

.

She fell in love with him before she move in.

He molded her into his creation.

He creates the woman of every man's fantasy just to stoke his ego? And making her in his image?

"Life imitates art" or at least attempts to.

However, she flip the script on the Prince doctrine, what's good for the goose must be much better for the gander. So to speak.

.

It would be more complicated to explain what they both had said, that they had fallen in love or were deeply in love. I'd like to believe that they knew and had experienced unconditional love.

.

Harem Lifestyle?

.

I recently discovered two other version of her autobiography, and in one she pulls no punches.

His was not concerned with his "harem."

Wow ,your post hits deep . . . that Gestalt Prayer. A whole thread could be dedicated to that prayer and thoughts of Denise and Prince. This information stuns me. The confidence in one another, the surety of fate that had your cross paths. . . . and looking at how closely they transitioned. There are layers to this

I cannot even begin to discuss and especially not in an environment so dogmatic and ambivalent to any ideas that threaten preconceived ideas/facts/myths.

.

So if that was the “philosophy” it would account for the ability to see one another even though there were Susannah, Devin Devasquez, Sheila E. , Kim Basinger and others- yet Prince and Vanity could remain constant amidst all of those women. Am I going down the right road? They remained until Denise decided due to what went down with Kim B. that maybe it was not a cool thing or correct thing to do anymore.

.

I was always under the impression that, yes, he molded her Vanity persona but she already had a style, was an artist in her own right. I felt they mused one another. I get Vanity was a persona they created but the style she brought ( the gorilla fur, the lace, the gloves, the tuxedo tails, ) I felt was her. Are you saying it was all him?

.

He was not concerned with his harem .I get that. I do understand that very well. He had various harems through the years it seems . I guess if the Gestalt Prayer is a creed for them there was an acceptance and he too had to learn acceptance when she had her own "other" , doing as the goose was doing.

.

The unconditional love had to exist because it seems they both seemed to be at a tug of war, test of wills. That love had to evolve into something different over time because they lived separate lives. I always imagine a deep, trusting, endearing friendship between them and an abing love that was beyond the physical but spiritual.

.

You said:

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too keep them close.

Can you explain?

Vashtix said:

Toban said:

Gestalt Prayer...

The handwritten copy of the poem that she had is missing the last line, ending at "beautiful."

I could be wrong but I don't think she wrote it.

If the "Philosophy" fits...

.

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too keep them close.

.

She fell in love with him before she move in.

He molded her into his creation.

He creates the woman of every man's fantasy just to stoke his ego? And making her in his image?

"Life imitates art" or at least attempts to.

However, she flip the script on the Prince doctrine, what's good for the goose must be much better for the gander. So to speak.

.

It would be more complicated to explain what they both had said, that they had fallen in love or were deeply in love. I'd like to believe that they knew and had experienced unconditional love.

.

Harem Lifestyle?

.

I recently discovered two other version of her autobiography, and in one she pulls no punches.

His was not concerned with his "harem."

Wow ,your post hits deep . . . that Gestalt Prayer. A whole thread could be dedicated to that prayer and thoughts of Denise and Prince. This information stuns me. The confidence in one another, the surety of fate that had your cross paths. . . . and looking at how closely they transitioned. There are layers to this

I cannot even begin to discuss and especially not in an environment so dogmatic and ambivalent to any ideas that threaten preconceived ideas/facts/myths.

.

So if that was the “philosophy” it would account for the ability to see one another even though there were Susannah, Devin Devasquez, Sheila E. , Kim Basinger and others- yet Prince and Vanity could remain constant amidst all of those women. Am I going down the right road? They remained until Denise decided due to what went down with Kim B. that maybe it was not a cool thing or correct thing to do anymore.

.

I was always under the impression that, yes, he molded her Vanity persona but she already had a style, was an artist in her own right. I felt they mused one another. I get Vanity was a persona they created but the style she brought ( the gorilla fur, the lace, the gloves, the tuxedo tails, ) I felt was her. Are you saying it was all him?

.

He was not concerned with his harem .I get that. I do understand that very well. He had various harems through the years it seems . I guess if the Gestalt Prayer is a creed for them there was an acceptance and he too had to learn acceptance when she had her own "other" , doing as the goose was doing.

.

The unconditional love had to exist because it seems they both seemed to be at a tug of war, test of wills. That love had to evolve into something different over time because they lived separate lives. I always imagine a deep, trusting, endearing friendship between them and an abing love that was beyond the physical but spiritual.

.

You said:

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too keep them close.

Can you explain?

Denise was strong willed no matter what. Yes I believe she refuse to be called "Vagina,"

Vanity worked. Thank Goodness.

Yes, I believe, even after that first night when she moved in, that she had some say the creation of Vanity. He just had the final say and she trusted him.

.

This was the begin, before they knew each other, before he truly knew her. She always mused him, but that was just her.

.

Denise didn't know she had sisters and a father until she was lead to believe that she was abandoned by her mother. She did know the love of a father, she didn't have a brother.

One argument with me scared her beyond reason. Her fear that I would break all contact with her because we disagreed made no sense, unless you knew and understood what she never had.

I had to make her understand that without being the father of her nephews or her sister's husband we would always remain as close as we were. Unconditionally

.

Was their relationship based on a similar understanding... unconditionally?

.

Their journey, from where they began to discussing religion? She had JW books in her storage, knowing I was raised in that religon from time to time she'd had ask me questions and she obviously had done her research.

This is who she was and what she had become and he was still right there being mused by her.

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

Wow ,your post hits deep . . . that Gestalt Prayer. A whole thread could be dedicated to that prayer and thoughts of Denise and Prince. This information stuns me. The confidence in one another, the surety of fate that had your cross paths. . . . and looking at how closely they transitioned. There are layers to this

I cannot even begin to discuss and especially not in an environment so dogmatic and ambivalent to any ideas that threaten preconceived ideas/facts/myths.

.

So if that was the “philosophy” it would account for the ability to see one another even though there were Susannah, Devin Devasquez, Sheila E. , Kim Basinger and others- yet Prince and Vanity could remain constant amidst all of those women. Am I going down the right road? They remained until Denise decided due to what went down with Kim B. that maybe it was not a cool thing or correct thing to do anymore.

.

I was always under the impression that, yes, he molded her Vanity persona but she already had a style, was an artist in her own right. I felt they mused one another. I get Vanity was a persona they created but the style she brought ( the gorilla fur, the lace, the gloves, the tuxedo tails, ) I felt was her. Are you saying it was all him?

.

He was not concerned with his harem .I get that. I do understand that very well. He had various harems through the years it seems . I guess if the Gestalt Prayer is a creed for them there was an acceptance and he too had to learn acceptance when she had her own "other" , doing as the goose was doing.

.

The unconditional love had to exist because it seems they both seemed to be at a tug of war, test of wills. That love had to evolve into something different over time because they lived separate lives. I always imagine a deep, trusting, endearing friendship between them and an abing love that was beyond the physical but spiritual.

.

You said:

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too keep them close.

Can you explain?

Denise was strong willed no matter what. Yes I believe she refuse to be called "Vagina,"

Vanity worked. Thank Goodness.

Yes, I believe, even after that first night when she moved in, that she had some say the creation of Vanity. He just had the final say and she trusted him.

.

This was the begin, before they knew each other, before he truly knew her. She always mused him, but that was just her.

.

Denise didn't know she had sisters and a father until she was lead to believe that she was abandoned by her mother. She did know the love of a father, she didn't have a brother.

One argument with me scared her beyond reason. Her fear that I would break all contact with her because we disagreed made no sense, unless you knew and understood what she never had.

I had to make her understand that without being the father of her nephews or her sister's husband we would always remain as close as we were. Unconditionally

.

Was their relationship based on a similar understanding... unconditionally?

.

Their journey, from where they began to discussing religion? She had JW books in her storage, knowing I was raised in that religon from time to time she'd had ask me questions and she obviously had done her research.

This is who she was and what she had become and he was still right there being mused by her.

That is so sweet and sad. The fear of losing someone you care for over differing views or life status.

It is a good thing you were able to remain close with her if she had such insecuriities.

.

The Gestalt Prayer you felt was not in her handwriting-maybe a close friend wrote that down for her to keep knowing what you described about her.

.

You know the Evangelist Denise has my fascination in a way Vanity does not. This is why I like her preaching vids and podcasts. Did she travel alot with her preaching even going overseas to preach?

.

I have listened to one of her preaching vids or podcast and she was disussing Christmas. It was very JW-ish and as most mainstream Christians believe. She did study things. I found that so interesting but when discussing Denise peeps usually bore of her Evangelist side and that is the one that blows me away. How did she do that? How did the Rockstar muse the Evangelist?

This is just so perplexing. It is hard to blend in my head.

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

WOW . . . such a romantic song, great choice! I can imagine many tears of joy and happiness with lyrics like those.

.

Your information about the LoveSexy era blew me away; I always thought he was with someone else during this time but this means Vanity was around when Under The Cherry Moon was filmed too per your timeline. It always confirms to me what I suspected that they told the public one thing (they do not see other, do not talk) and did another. I like them being private. Seems Prince showed the public exactly what he wanted, how he wanted, where and when. I guess what he sold we believed and her too.

.

I'll bite at this one . . . what do ou perceive drew them? You said it is complicated and simple. It boggles my mind due to his harem lifestyle.

Gestalt Prayer...

The handwritten copy of the poem that she had is missing the last line, ending at "beautiful."

I could be wrong but I don't think she wrote it.

If the "Philosophy" fits...

.

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too kept them close.

.

She fell in love with him before she move in.

He molded her into his creation.

He creates the woman of every man's fantasy just to stoke his ego? And making her in his image?

"Life imitates art" or at least attempts to.

However, she flip the script on the Prince doctrine, "what's good for the goose..." must be much better for the gander. So to speak.

.

It would be more complicated to explain what they both had said, that they had fallen in love or were deeply in love. I'd like to believe that they knew and had experienced unconditional love.

.

Harem Lifestyle?

.

I recently discovered two other version of her autobiography, and in one she pulls no punches.

She was not concerned with his "harem."

[Edited 8/8/17 20:28pm]

Thank you for sharing this with us- TOB.

After looking at the Gestalt Prayer- you be who you are and I can be what I am-without expectations sounds simple in written word, but difficult played out in real life. Whomever hand wrote it, whether she did as a reminder to herself or if someone else did, it's deep and great model go by in relationships. One can be independent of one another, but yet still come together, find each other.

.

I'm glad you mentioned the mirroring effect in their lives having been more than just physical. They seemed to be moving in a parallel direction when it came to the spiritual changes that took place for them. You say coincidental and it was, but it was in sync. The most fascinating thing to me about this is that they could go from having been lovers in a romantic, tumultuous relationship to people with vastly different lifestyles sharing a deep friendship revolving around their spiritual faiths- which was also different from one another. In order to sustain that kind of friendship, they had to have had an understanding of being unconditional. I imagine there would've been disagreements and anyone could walk away at anytime.

.

I always joke about Prince and his harem(s) over here. I can't help it, that was Prince. It would be naive of me to think otherwise. Anyway, going back to Gestalt Prayer, perhaps she understood and accepted that this is what he did and how live. Perhaps she living out that prayer by not having expectations of him to change for them to share a deep, spiritual friendship.

[Edited 8/10/17 18:14pm]

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

Wow ,your post hits deep . . . that Gestalt Prayer. A whole thread could be dedicated to that prayer and thoughts of Denise and Prince. This information stuns me. The confidence in one another, the surety of fate that had your cross paths. . . . and looking at how closely they transitioned. There are layers to this

I cannot even begin to discuss and especially not in an environment so dogmatic and ambivalent to any ideas that threaten preconceived ideas/facts/myths.

.

So if that was the “philosophy” it would account for the ability to see one another even though there were Susannah, Devin Devasquez, Sheila E. , Kim Basinger and others- yet Prince and Vanity could remain constant amidst all of those women. Am I going down the right road? They remained until Denise decided due to what went down with Kim B. that maybe it was not a cool thing or correct thing to do anymore.

.

I was always under the impression that, yes, he molded her Vanity persona but she already had a style, was an artist in her own right. I felt they mused one another. I get Vanity was a persona they created but the style she brought ( the gorilla fur, the lace, the gloves, the tuxedo tails, ) I felt was her. Are you saying it was all him?

.

He was not concerned with his harem .I get that. I do understand that very well. He had various harems through the years it seems . I guess if the Gestalt Prayer is a creed for them there was an acceptance and he too had to learn acceptance when she had her own "other" , doing as the goose was doing.

.

The unconditional love had to exist because it seems they both seemed to be at a tug of war, test of wills. That love had to evolve into something different over time because they lived separate lives. I always imagine a deep, trusting, endearing friendship between them and an abing love that was beyond the physical but spiritual.

.

You said:

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too keep them close.

Can you explain?

Denise was strong willed no matter what. Yes I believe she refuse to be called "Vagina,"

Vanity worked. Thank Goodness.

Yes, I believe, even after that first night when she moved in, that she had some say the creation of Vanity. He just had the final say and she trusted him.

.

This was the begin, before they knew each other, before he truly knew her. She always mused him, but that was just her.

.

Denise didn't know she had sisters and a father until she was lead to believe that she was abandoned by her mother. She did know the love of a father, she didn't have a brother.

One argument with me scared her beyond reason. Her fear that I would break all contact with her because we disagreed made no sense, unless you knew and understood what she never had.

I had to make her understand that without being the father of her nephews or her sister's husband we would always remain as close as we were. Unconditionally

.

Was their relationship based on a similar understanding... unconditionally?

.

Their journey, from where they began to discussing religion? She had JW books in her storage, knowing I was raised in that religon from time to time she'd had ask me questions and she obviously had done her research.

This is who she was and what she had become and he was still right there being mused by her.

That's my girl! She was ready for spiritual conversation throwdowns with her research! Ok j/k On a serious note, if I may, what do you mean he was still being mused by her? Was it artistically or spiritually? Are we talking recent past or long ago?

purplegirl00 said:

Toban said:

Denise was strong willed no matter what. Yes I believe she refuse to be called "Vagina,"

Vanity worked. Thank Goodness.

Yes, I believe, even after that first night when she moved in, that she had some say the creation of Vanity. He just had the final say and she trusted him.

.

This was the begin, before they knew each other, before he truly knew her. She always mused him, but that was just her.

.

Denise didn't know she had sisters and a father until she was lead to believe that she was abandoned by her mother. She did know the love of a father, she didn't have a brother.

One argument with me scared her beyond reason. Her fear that I would break all contact with her because we disagreed made no sense, unless you knew and understood what she never had.

I had to make her understand that without being the father of her nephews or her sister's husband we would always remain as close as we were. Unconditionally

.

Was their relationship based on a similar understanding... unconditionally?

.

Their journey, from where they began to discussing religion? She had JW books in her storage, knowing I was raised in that religon from time to time she'd had ask me questions and she obviously had done her research.

This is who she was and what she had become and he was still right there being mused by her.

That's my girl! She was ready for spiritual conversation throwdowns with her research! Ok j/k On a serious note, if I may, what do you mean he was still being mused by her? Was it artistically or spiritually? Are we talking recent past or long ago?

You have to consider when it become known that Prince was a Jehovah's Witness? Denise was not doing research and studying the religion for my benefit.

"Both" to the last two questions.

.

Prince enjoyed just being in her presents, watching her, mused… wondering what she might do next. Denise was an event. He loved to watch her dance, she was as mesmerizing as ocean waves and the sunset over the Pacific, “look at my girl” he’d say to DeBorah.

Toban said:

purplegirl00 said:

That's my girl! She was ready for spiritual conversation throwdowns with her research! Ok j/k On a serious note, if I may, what do you mean he was still being mused by her? Was it artistically or spiritually? Are we talking recent past or long ago?

You have to consider when it become known that Prince was a Jehovah's Witness? Denise was not doing research and studying the religion for my benefit.

"Both" to the last two questions.

.

Prince enjoyed just being in her presents, watching her, mused… wondering what she might do next. Denise was an event. He loved to watch her dance, she was as mesmerizing as ocean waves and the sunset over the Pacific, “look at my girl” he’d say to DeBorah.

"Look at my girl" Those two will take on the roller coaster ride with them if you follow their story... Thank you for sharing that.

purplegirl00 said:

Toban said:

Gestalt Prayer...

The handwritten copy of the poem that she had is missing the last line, ending at "beautiful."

I could be wrong but I don't think she wrote it.

If the "Philosophy" fits...

.

The mirror image was more than physical.

Their spiritual journey appeared to be more than coincidental, so that too kept them close.

.

She fell in love with him before she move in.

He molded her into his creation.

He creates the woman of every man's fantasy just to stoke his ego? And making her in his image?

"Life imitates art" or at least attempts to.

However, she flip the script on the Prince doctrine, "what's good for the goose..." must be much better for the gander. So to speak.

.

It would be more complicated to explain what they both had said, that they had fallen in love or were deeply in love. I'd like to believe that they knew and had experienced unconditional love.

.

Harem Lifestyle?

.

I recently discovered two other version of her autobiography, and in one she pulls no punches.

She was not concerned with his "harem."

[Edited 8/8/17 20:28pm]

Thank you for sharing this with us- TOB.

After looking at the Gestalt Prayer- you be who you are and I can be what I am-without expectations sounds simple in written word, but difficult played out in real life. Whomever hand wrote it, whether she did as a reminder to herself or if someone else did, it's deep and great model go by in relationships. One can be independent of one another, but yet still come together, find each other.

.

I'm glad you mentioned the mirroring effect in their lives having been more than just physical. They seemed to be moving in a parallel direction when it came to the spiritual changes that took place for them. You say coincidental and it was, but it was in sync. The most fascinating thing to me about this is that they could go from having been lovers in a romantic, tumultuous relationship to people with vastly different lifestyles sharing a deep friendship revolving around their spiritual faiths- which was also different from one another. In order to sustain that kind of friendship, they had to have had an understanding of being unconditional. I imagine there would've been disagreements and anyone could walk away at anytime.

.

I always joke about Prince and his harem(s) over here. I can't help it, that was Prince. It would be naive of me to think otherwise. Anyway, going back to Gestalt Prayer, perhaps she understood and accepted that this is what he did and how live. Perhaps she living out that prayer by not having expectations of him to change for them to share a deep, spiritual friendship.

[Edited 8/10/17 18:14pm]

Yes, to the above.

...more than coincidental... actually.

.

His pasting so soon after her shook us, DeBorah and I, because of what she had been saying to DeBorah for many years, that they would be in heaven together.

She does actually mention this in a poem and she graphical depicts them as angels in heaven in her book, with the phrase "find the Angels face."

.

Yes, she said a few things that didn't occur. Yes, we both thought it was nuts and hoped she was not repeating it to anyone else. We did not think she'd put it in her book. Of course it is cryptic, meant only for one person, as mentioned at the end of the poem with "You know."

.

Did some of his lyrics impart a similar sentiment?

.

They definitely understood each other, they obviously accepted each other as they were and it is evidently that they enjoyed each others companionship. They shared a special connection that they reserved for themselves and kept to themselves.

[Edited 8/11/17 18:58pm]