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People blame Vanity due to the way people have written and spoke about her as it pertains to Prince and the movie; which is exactly what Luvgirl said when she started this thread. Luvgirl was right. They depict her as we have mentioned as a drug out, sex pot who Prince simply tolerated because his true attentions were or Susan and Susannah and Vanity is a footnote. Alex Hahn is the worse and interviews of others about her in the 80s really marginalize her, and from the book by Dez it appears as if Prince was taken with Vanity to have a tour bus for just the 2 of them . It gets sensitive because as you know he had many women and the women had fans . There people who are fans of Susannah and Susan and some just do not want to admit Prince had real feelings for Vanity at all so she is marginalized and made to be a drugged out, out of her mind, whore. Oh it gets ugly. It is said he spent no time with her and they had not relationship. .
Toban, This is why the information you have shared has been of value as others try to rewrite history and push Vanity further and further from her legitiamate place and influence during that time. It is not about a "Prince loved her best" contest as people want to make any discussion validating Vanity's contributions. The threads are soon made into a frivolous fangurl competition. The discussion needs to be real and not thrown away by saying well he was with this girl and had a harem and bought this chick this and Vanity was not even paid and on and on and on. When Discussion about Vanity as a serious celebrity and artist gets twisted to that fangurl of the harem mode then even I am out . The books like the Alex Hahn book is a big one that totally disses her while giving influence on Prince at that time to other women some who were not even around during the Triple Threat Tour and even to Susan and some to Kim anyone but Vanity because it fits how some want the history of that time to look like for people who were not around or who just don't know, even though it is nothing but a convenient omission of Vanity/Denise as nothing but a piece of A for Prince that Prince had to fire from the project because she was such a waste of his time. It gets tedious.
. I have read that he was all about making a movie and as was mentioned his friends from home were in it but it was not what Purple Rain was- with the Triple Threat tour it came together. I guess but it evolved and rumor has it Vanity and Prince spent time writing what would become the gist of the Purple Rain movie on that tour bus with just the 2 of them. That movie was about a very specific time. She even speaks of working on the script with him in various interviews so his 2nd Coming Movie with the clips we see was not the movie he and Vanity/Denise worked on together that became Purple Rain. Yes I know the final draft was done by the writers but the gist of what they did and the dialogue was from them (Prince and Vanity) if what Vanity said at the time is true and I believe her. . Toban when do you think the tide changed? If he treated her so poorly why would she make up at the AMAs and present the award, somewhere in there they became friends and had a relationship. It lasted years- so what changed ?
[Edited 7/18/17 3:40am] | |
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Toban, did Denise write at all about her experiences/interactions with the other associates of Prince? Did she give her opinions of his band and Dez Dickerson etc? We know she would later work with Jesse Johnson again for her Action Jackson songs and she was going to work with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis for her unreleaseed third album. Anything on the others? She seemed to get along well enough with Morris Day and Andre Cymone. Maybe the whole band wasn't against her but just certain people like Dez, Wendy and Lisa etc? | |
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Vashtix said:
Yep total Pimp culture.
You explained it well . . . . Players play women they are not vulnerable. Pimps use women to make money in a demeaning manner. If you want to read about Pimp culture read about Iceberg Slim. | |
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Those books of his were legendary back in the day...all the teenagers I knew read them the way folks read "street lit" or so-called "ghetto books" or "urban lit" now...And everybody would pass em around, but avoid our parents finding them...
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This books by Iceberg Slim, Donald Goins and a little Jackie Collins. In my moms date it was Harold Robbins and Jackie Susann. - Valley of the Dolls ( Dolls being a code name for uppers)
Every generation of young people has this type of lit that has too be hidden from the parents. Of course we have music that we had to hide as well thanks to Prince.
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I was just watching that movie a few days ago...
But yeah, lotsa clandestine teenaged reading...Down These Mean Streets, Go Ask Alice, Reds, Penthouse Forum letters...I even read The Happy Hooker by Xaviera Hollander back then...and the Christine Jorgenson story (she was the original Bruce/Caityn Jenner)...If our parents had any idea...
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I read the "Happy Hooker" as well. Some people on this board should have read this stuff because I read some of the most naive comments about life in general on this board. | |
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FACTS | |
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Maybe at this point in life you need to fill your soul with better things Not good for dudes to think of women in those ways plant fruit producing seeds instead of weeds in your garden sharing ideas A shower of flowers Don't give up I'll still love you | |
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Did you bother to read anything in the above conversation? I read that stuff when I was a teen as many teens did back then and still do with Urban lit.
Kind of lets you in on a different side of life and the stories are good cautionary tales. I see and hear the naiveness of young people today and it is not shocking that they cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. They know nothing about real life whatsoever.
You should read some of it since half the time you appear to have no idea about whatsoever about the enviroment Prince grew up in and how it shapped his music, thinking and relationships. One's upbringing plays a hugh part on how things are processed by that person later in life.
Dude's treatement of women can often be traced to the men in their lives growing up.
Eddie was a pimp, Pimps retired to the neighborhood, Dad was a women chaser, and Andre was a straight theif.
Prince's behavior with women came from somewhere. The fact that he got as far as he did in life and appears to have rised above some of the bad stuff he grew up with is tells us a lot about his drive. [Edited 7/20/17 7:37am] [Edited 7/20/17 7:53am] | |
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I apologize for drudging this back up but I due to obligations missed some things
LuvGir,l did you ever remember what book the bolded was from ? I cannot imagine a purple notebook. She did say it was their story - *shrugs* too bad they are both gone now . We will never get the truth because -who could tell it at this point without getting a collective side eye? | |
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[Edited 7/7/17 21:54pm]
No, Vashtix, I've been trying to remember what book that was even before I read this book by Dez. After listening to that Jill Jones interview where she mentioned that all the girls traveled on the same tour bus together, it sparked my memory that there was a book I had read that mentioned that before Vanity had a falling out with Prince, she was the girl to travel on the tour bus with him and there was animosity towards her because of it. Dez's book confirmed that I wasn't going bonkers when he mentioned the same thing. The other book touched briefly on them writing in his purple notebook together on the bus. It was only a mention though. The book didn't go into much details about it, but it was the only book I read that actually mentioned her part in the outline of the script. I can't believe that I didn't log down what book that was... [Edited 7/31/17 4:40am] | |
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luvgirl said:[quote]Here are my thoughts: How could Dez Blame it on Vanity? (Pun intended  ) Prince was a big boy and the one who was hell bent on having Vanity in his life and making her a star. He was the one who pursued her until she caved and moved to Minneapolis to date and collaborate with him. He was the one that chose to exclude the band from riding with him on his tour bus. As stated in his book, "Prince suddenly stopped traveling with the band and got his own private bus where he, Vanity, Chick and fragnoli would travel on it, while the rest of the band stayed together on the other bus. (A) This did little but create another reason to grumble, (B) and an unrestricted place to grumble in." Clearly Prince's decision...It was also his decision to feature her on the cover of Rolling Stone instead of the band, and his choice to share the spotlight with her at the AMA. It was even his choice as a man to spend time and be closer with one of his girlfriends than he was with his bandmates, and to help her with her dream of becoming a star... I doubt anyone including Vanity could have manipulated Prince into doing anything he didn't want to do. What little credit Dez gave him... And how dare Dez put such a blame on her! I came to the realization that this is the reason why none of Prince's former associates ever had anything nice to say about Vanity in all those books that are out there. Instead they try to belittle her as much as possible. From the band with Dez, down to the Revolutions, Susan Rogers, Roy Bennett, and even Matt Fink tried to put her down saying "The Vanities and the Apollonias bothered me, I thought he could be producing extremely talented people, not people who were there for their looks rather than their singing.” I always wondered why none of his associates seemed to like her. Now I think I understand. They were envious of the close attention that Prince allotted to her and judged her unfairly because of it. They thought she didn't deserve it, but they never gave the girl a chance. Even after she proved herself. I can only imagine the antipathy she was subjected to when on top of all this, Prince made her the female lead in purple Rain as well. (Jill Jones comment comes to mind about the jealousy she saw that was directed at Vanity from all quarters.) For one of her rivals to admit that was powerful... People can try to belittle her all they want, but even though I agree that one of the reasons Prince situated Vanity around him musically was because he wanted her in his life as a lover, I don't doubt the fact that Prince was moved by her charisma and saw star potential within her that he knew would galvanize the masses. Which it did.... Prince was justified when she took America by storm with her beauty and the hit Nasty Girl and had people like Berry Gordy and others in the entertainment industry vying for her attention. He succeeded in his endouver to make her a star, which is more than a lot of the people who try to put her down can say... She succeeded as well on her own, doing cult classic movies like "The Last Dragon", "Never Too Young To Die" and much more before fame got the best of her and she walked away from it all. Roy Bennett mentioned in Alex Hahn's book that Prince was supposedly closer with Susan Moonsie than with Vanity. Knowing the animosity most felt about her from that era, and with the kind of uproar she caused in the band - along with her admission that her and Prince were so close it was frightening - and Prince's own admission on how much they used to love each other, I seriously doubt Roy Bennett's statement... It's interesting that Dez would also go on to state that Roy's wife Brenda Bennett from Vanity Six did not get along with Vanity at all. At one point it even turned to physical violence. Roy Bennett's statement could have easily been colored by his wife's influence. I can't help but feel like everyone's view of Vanity is tainted with malice from back then, if Dez's admission in this book is any indication...  [Edited 7/5/17 8:27am] [explainability Wow!!! This explains a lot. All of these books out there really don't give Prince any type of credit. Just maybe Prince found her to be very inspirational in many different aspects. I mean damn it was okay for him to have a special girlfriend....wtf. Everyone has a place a role to play. That zhitt sounded like some real high school mess I'm like damn no need for them to have jealousy. | |
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