I am really ambivalent about LG's influence on P.

Someone made a good point that Prince might have been going down a bad path in the 90's anyway. He seemed to be lost and adrift in that decade. But I also think that perhaps Prince's reaction to the loss of his child would have led to greater humility no matter what faith he gravitated toward. He needed true friends and maybe LG was really his friend and had the best intentions but was still not the best person to help Prince because LG himself suffered from a bit of a religious delusion.

Prince needed someone away from music and religion. Its like he needed a well-meaning non-entertainer to force him to stop working for a year and just move amongst people who weren't consumed with religious doctrine and music. LG might have made P feel comfortable and loved but LG might have been like a little bandaid on a seeping wound (it may be enough to stem off immediate death, but eventually a seeping wound needs true and deep care or else you slowly bleed to death). The JW faith may have been a double edged sword (good in that it prolonged Prince's life in some ways, made him more social, made him more generous and community-minded, gave him comfort; bad in that it may have discouraged him seeking real human truth, real genuine emotional and physical recovery, and isolated him from others [outside that circle] who loved him.)

These debates remind me of what I learned about Marilyn Monroe. Everyone always blames her lovers and the industry for her downfall and in many ways, people did let her down. But the reality is that Monroe was the product of a broken home and mental illness. Most people were going to drop the ball when it came to helping her because their own baggage and issues got in the way. Arthur Miller has a bad reputation in terms of letting Monroe down but Miller (the more I have read about him) could be a well-meaning decent man despite his own baggage and flaws. I do think he loved MM>

[Edited 5/18/17 15:56pm]

Reciprocity said:

purplerabbithole said:

there is nothing wrong with religion. But it can't be everything and people shouldn't completely check their brains at the door or strip themselves of their own individuality or tolerance for other religions and even life styles

I am a deist (which means I believe in God in a vague sense but that is about it). But I was raised Catholic and I respect the sacraments and what they stand for.

I have no problem with most religious dogma (generally they all non-offensive to me). THE JW's beliefs in second resurrections, no hell, no holy trinity, and eternal life on earth--none that stuff offends me whatsoever. In fact, it is kind of cool. But any religion that is too strict and unforgiving in its doctrine, biblical interpretation, and demands on its flock...those religions I have issues with. And unfortunately, the conditions of the JW doctrine are what bother me about it. To someone like Prince (vulnerable, guilt-ridden and desperate for stability and control), this religion probably felt like a real fit for him. But, I am fairly certain it probably wasn't the best fit for him. The faith Hannah and Joshua Welton prescribed to seems like something I wish Prince had gravitated towards in 1997 onward.

My grandfather was a methodist pastor. He had issues with his faith (due to chronic depression and some lousy luck in his life). He had to reconcile his beliefs and adapt them so they worked for himself. He did not check his brain at the door even though his job was to preach. He was a tolerant, open-minded, incredibly intelligent, musically-talented (classical piano), inclusive and loving man. Imagine a white middle aged methodist pastor from Indiana loving the film "Do the Right Thing" -- that was my grandfather.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am really ambivalent about LG's influence on P.

Someone made a good point that Prince might have been going down a bad path in the 90's anyway. He seemed to be lost and adrift in that decade. But I also think that perhaps Prince's reaction to the loss of his child would have led to greater humility no matter what faith he gravitated toward. He needed true friends and maybe LG was really his friend and had the best intentions but was still not the best person to help Prince because LG himself suffered from a bit of a religious delusion.

Prince needed someone away from music and religion. Its like he needed a well-meaning non-entertainer to force him to stop working for a year and just move amongst people who weren't consumed with religious doctrine and music. LG might have made P feel comfortable and loved but LG might have been like a little bandaid on a seeping wound (it may be enough to stem off immediate death, but eventually a seeping wound needs true and deep care or else you slowly bleed to death). The JW faith may have been a double edged sword (good in that it prolonged Prince's life in some ways, made him more social, made him more generous and community-minded, gave him comfort; bad in that it may have discouraged him seeking real human truth, real genuine emotional and physical recovery, and isolated him from others [outside that circle] who loved him.)

These debates remind me of what I learned about Marilyn Monroe. Everyone always blames her lovers and the industry for her downfall and in many ways, people did let her down. But the reality is that Monroe was the product of a broken home and mental illness. Most people were going to drop the ball when it came to helping her because their own baggage and issues got in the way. Arthur Miller has a bad reputation in terms of letting Monroe down but Miller (the more I have read about him) could be a well-meaning decent man despite his own baggage and flaws. I do think he loved MM>

[Edited 5/18/17 15:56pm]

What's wrong with religion? Or are you just referring to JW faith specifically?

babynoz said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am really ambivalent about LG's influence on P.

Someone made a good point that Prince might have been going down a bad path in the 90's anyway. He seemed to be lost and adrift in that decade. But I also think that perhaps Prince's reaction to the loss of his child would have led to greater humility no matter what faith he gravitated toward. He needed true friends and maybe LG was really his friend and had the best intentions but was still not the best person to help Prince because LG himself suffered from a bit of a religious delusion.

Prince needed someone away from music and religion. Its like he needed a well-meaning non-entertainer to force him to stop working for a year and just move amongst people who weren't consumed with religious doctrine and music. LG might have made P feel comfortable and loved but LG might have been like a little bandaid on a seeping wound (it may be enough to stem off immediate death, but eventually a seeping wound needs true and deep care or else you slowly bleed to death). The JW faith may have been a double edged sword (good in that it prolonged Prince's life in some ways, made him more social, made him more generous and community-minded, gave him comfort; bad in that it may have discouraged him seeking real human truth, real genuine emotional and physical recovery, and isolated him from others [outside that circle] who loved him.)

These debates remind me of what I learned about Marilyn Monroe. Everyone always blames her lovers and the industry for her downfall and in many ways, people did let her down. But the reality is that Monroe was the product of a broken home and mental illness. Most people were going to drop the ball when it came to helping her because their own baggage and issues got in the way. Arthur Miller has a bad reputation in terms of letting Monroe down but Miller (the more I have read about him) could be a well-meaning decent man despite his own baggage and flaws. I do think he loved MM>

[Edited 5/18/17 15:56pm]

Prince was brought up around and in the church. It was fine for someone of faith to assist in bringing him out from the "wilderness". The baby 's death was part of a number of things that gave him pause in that decade. Prince came out of all of that fog of the 90s a strong, fine, genius. He was just refined. I loved that Prince. He was delish.

Tchoup1971 said:

I've been doing a whole lot of reading about Prince over the last year, more than ever because of his demise. What is it about Larry Graham that I DON'T LIKE????

No you are not the only one i also dont think he with good for P

Vashtix said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am really ambivalent about LG's influence on P.

Someone made a good point that Prince might have been going down a bad path in the 90's anyway. He seemed to be lost and adrift in that decade. But I also think that perhaps Prince's reaction to the loss of his child would have led to greater humility no matter what faith he gravitated toward. He needed true friends and maybe LG was really his friend and had the best intentions but was still not the best person to help Prince because LG himself suffered from a bit of a religious delusion.

Prince needed someone away from music and religion. Its like he needed a well-meaning non-entertainer to force him to stop working for a year and just move amongst people who weren't consumed with religious doctrine and music. LG might have made P feel comfortable and loved but LG might have been like a little bandaid on a seeping wound (it may be enough to stem off immediate death, but eventually a seeping wound needs true and deep care or else you slowly bleed to death). The JW faith may have been a double edged sword (good in that it prolonged Prince's life in some ways, made him more social, made him more generous and community-minded, gave him comfort; bad in that it may have discouraged him seeking real human truth, real genuine emotional and physical recovery, and isolated him from others [outside that circle] who loved him.)

These debates remind me of what I learned about Marilyn Monroe. Everyone always blames her lovers and the industry for her downfall and in many ways, people did let her down. But the reality is that Monroe was the product of a broken home and mental illness. Most people were going to drop the ball when it came to helping her because their own baggage and issues got in the way. Arthur Miller has a bad reputation in terms of letting Monroe down but Miller (the more I have read about him) could be a well-meaning decent man despite his own baggage and flaws. I do think he loved MM>

[Edited 5/18/17 15:56pm]

Prince was brought up around and in the church. It was fine for someone of faith to assist in bringing him out from the "wilderness". The baby 's death was part of a number of things that gave him pause in that decade. Prince came out of all of that fog of the 90s a strong, fine, genius. He was just refined. I loved that Prince. He was delish.

I think his time 'in and around the church' was very short. and chaotic when it came to his step father.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

Prince was brought up around and in the church. It was fine for someone of faith to assist in bringing him out from the "wilderness". The baby 's death was part of a number of things that gave him pause in that decade. Prince came out of all of that fog of the 90s a strong, fine, genius. He was just refined. I loved that Prince. He was delish.

I think his time 'in and around the church' was very short. and chaotic when it came to his step father.

According to an interview with Tkya that went to their Mom's Methodist church and sometimes to their father's Seven Day Adventist church.

SD's are an offshoot of the JWs so Prince's time at church was not short lived. Plenty of stuff in his music that comes from the SD's long before he got involved with the JW's.

The book by Toure has some stupid stuff in it but the information about the SD's influcence on Prince lyrically is interesting and made me look more into the SD's.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

According to an interview with Tkya that went to their Mom's Methodist church and sometimes to their father's Seven Day Adventist church.

SD's are an offshoot of the JWs so Prince's time at church was not short lived. Plenty of stuff in his music that comes from the SD's long before he got involved with the JW's.

The book by Toure has some stupid stuff in it but the information about the SD's influcence on Prince lyrically is interesting and made me look more into the SD's.

I can confirm the Methodist church. My cousin who is roughly the same age as Prince and attended Roosevelt high school in Minneapolis would sometimes see him at events at church.

What a cool thing these little tidbits about Prince

Reciprocity said:

2609 said:

Tchoup1971 said:

I've been doing a whole lot of reading about Prince over the last year, more than ever because of his demise. What is it about Larry Graham that I DON'T LIKE????

No you are not the only one i also dont think he with good for P

its interesting to see people who didnt know Prince pretend to know what was or was not good for him.
Perhaps you didnt like the music he ut out after beecoming a JW but you CERTAINLY have no clue how the brother got along in his own life. It is amazing to me that you'd even have an opinion on HOW his life was.

2609 said:

Tchoup1971 said:

I've been doing a whole lot of reading about Prince over the last year, more than ever because of his demise. What is it about Larry Graham that I DON'T LIKE????

No you are not the only one i also dont think he with good for P

its interesting to see people who didnt know Prince pretend to know what was or was not good for him.
Perhaps you didnt like the music he ut out after beecoming a JW but you CERTAINLY have no clue how the brother got along in his own life. It is amazing to me that you'd even have an opinion on HOW his life was.

Threads like these shouldnt be allowed. I mean if it were about W&L it wouldnt be.

Nobody gives a flying sexual term who you odnt like.

Stop putting crap like this out in the ether especially after this subject has been a topic ad naseum for decades.

Having said that, whatever comfort Graham provided to someone after the death of a child is greater and more meaningful than any ungrateful fucks can percieve.

rdhull said:

Threads like these shouldnt be allowed. I mean if it were about W&L it wouldnt be.

Nobody gives a flying sexual term who you odnt like.

Stop putting crap like this out in the ether especially after this subject has been a topic ad naseum for decades.

Having said that, whatever comfort Graham provided to someone after the death of a child is greater and more meaningful than any ungrateful fucks can percieve.

That isn't true, everyone has had a thread almost like this since Prince passed

here is a very recent one

Wendy and Prince...Is She Getting On Your Nerves Too?

OldFriends4Sale said:

rdhull said:

Threads like these shouldnt be allowed. I mean if it were about W&L it wouldnt be.

Nobody gives a flying sexual term who you odnt like.

Stop putting crap like this out in the ether especially after this subject has been a topic ad naseum for decades.

Having said that, whatever comfort Graham provided to someone after the death of a child is greater and more meaningful than any ungrateful fucks can percieve.

That isn't true, everyone has had a thread almost like this since Prince passed

here is a very recent one

Wendy and Prince...Is She Getting On Your Nerves Too?

Wendy M is getting on my nerves. Every interview I read she goes out of her way to claim credit for Prince's creativity. She has a specific agenda in which she feels the need to grab a part of his legacy.

That shouldnt have been allowed either.

Thanks to everyone who responded and to the OP. Maybe Larry Graham has been discussed previously, but maybe new people have joined and maybe people's opinions about Larry Graham's impact/influence on Prince's life has changed or shifted. I thought this was a good discussion thus far. It's just my opinion, but based upon the lyrical content of Prince's music from the beginning, it appears that he has always had some type of belief in God and this just didn't come out of nowhere. I therefore don't really "blame" or believe LG coerced Prince into becoming a JW and I don't like or dislike him. I was never a fan of his music when he left Sly and the Family Stone (whom I did love).

Nevermind

[Edited 5/19/17 18:28pm]

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

damn

rdhull said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

damn

hahahahaaaaaaa

You cant beat this ....

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This make all my funny bones light up lol

OldFriends4Sale said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This make all my funny bones light up lol

I love those old GCS records, and own them on vinyl. But what he did with/to Prince - nope. He got a lot of backlash from the community by the time TRC came around. And frankly, it was with good reason.

One of the things that made Prince's 1978-1987 music and scene so intoxicatingly wonderful is that the majority of his 'influences' were far away ie You didn't see Prince doing a whole lot with other celebs or musical influence's outside of him hanging out with Joni Mitchell and her being at rehearsals and such, Miles Davis, (jumping on James Brown stage in 1983) etc and a few others as well as him sharing his stage on a song or two with peers Madonna Bruce Springstein Taylor Dane Bangels Rolling Stone -Ron Wood etc where is was a fleeting moment or whispers of things happening behind scenes,

.

in the mid 90s onward having Chaka Khan Larry Graham in his band extensive performances with Stevie Wonder George Clinton and many other throught the period, I don't think added or enhanced the experience for me.

anangellooksdown said:

babynoz said:

I think that Prince's spiritual path did him far more good than harm and if he encountered LG and the JW on that path then so be it. Even through that phase Prince never completely abandoned his core beliefs and I am proud of him for having the courage to continue seeking throughout his life.

He was and still is such an incredible soul.

Larry is an excellent musician but as a front man he is too doofus for my taste.

Babynoz, How exactly is it that you feel he wore Prince down when he was vulnerable?

Were you thinking of another member's comment, because that is not what my post says?